(IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TOURIST

(IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TOURIST

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The only people that should enter Mexico as tourists are those who want to leave in 180 days. Immigration is checking and cross referencing and the law states that if you enter or exit as a tourist then you will have your temporal or permanente canceled.

Why would people who have one of these documents risk losing everything including all the time and money spent?

Some commons reasons:

Ignorance about having to show their travel letter (or needing one when traveling while papers in process).
Being too cheap to pay for a travel letter
Not showing their visa sticker from the consulate in their passport upon arriving in Mexico.
Having an ignorant immigration agent who thinks all foreigners are tourists and who tells you to sort out any problems at immigration

NEVER leave the immigration counter if you were given a tourist visa and you are not a tourist, they will try to get rid of you but once you leave then you are stuck and risk losing everything. If your FMM form says 180 days then they marked you as a tourist. If you get a visa from a consulate and enter Mexico your FMM form will give you 30 days. Once you leave they will assume that you did wrong, not them and they will cancel your document.

People with travel letters need to get both entry and exit stamps on the travel letter, show it at all times and do not let them take it.

People whose document expired while outside Mexico may enter within 55 days of expiration and MUST show their expired document and not get a a tourist card then apply for renewal within 5 days.

A new trick is to call people into immigration and deny them the right to an attorney or translator and then trick them into confessing that they entered wrong and have them sign a form all in Spanish, demand your right to an attorney or translator and NEVER accept blame for mistakes done by immigration.
Mexican licensed attorney (Cédula #7928026) and official court translator (Perito Traductor). Mx 376-765-7553

(This post was edited by tonyburton on Aug 17, 2013, 12:34 PM)

Aug 17, 2013, 5:41 PM

Post #2 of 28 (1510 views)

Re: [Intercasa] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TOU

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I just arrived at the airport in Mexico City a few days ago. You do fill out a FMM. You indicate that you permanent residence is Mexico and give your current address. You give the INM agent your passport, the FMM, and your visa card. The agent will stamp the FMM, scan your visa card, and hand the card and passport back to you. Some people say that the agent has to stamp your passport, but no. The passport is for visas and since you already have one, there is no stamp in your passport.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.

(This post was edited by joaquinx on Aug 17, 2013, 5:42 PM)

citlali

Aug 17, 2013, 7:14 PM

Post #3 of 28 (1486 views)

Re: [joaquinx] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TOU

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It does not always work that way, My passport gets stamped every time I go in and out of the country so it is not for visa only. Last year it got stamped in and out of Mexicowhen I went to Guatemala and in aout of Mexico when I went to France.

sparks

Aug 17, 2013, 9:10 PM

Post #4 of 28 (1469 views)

Re: [citlali] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TOU

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I renewed my passport in 2007 and have 2 IN stamps, 2009 and 2010 and left every year

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

Intercasa

Aug 17, 2013, 9:40 PM

Post #5 of 28 (1469 views)

Re: [sparks] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TOU

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The key is making sure they don't put an amount of days and that you list your Mexican immigration document as well as show it to the immigration agent to not be mistakenly admitted as a tourist and risk the harsh sanction of having your hard earned immigration document canceled.
Mexican licensed attorney (Cédula #7928026) and official court translator (Perito Traductor). Mx 376-765-7553

Aug 18, 2013, 5:39 AM

Post #6 of 28 (1444 views)

Re: [Intercasa] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TOU

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In Reply To

The key is making sure they don't put an amount of days.

For me, the agent kept the FMM, stamped it and returned only my Residente Permanente and my unstamped passport.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.

Aug 18, 2013, 8:47 AM

Post #7 of 28 (1393 views)

Re: [joaquinx] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TOU

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In Reply To

Several clarifications might be useful for readers:
1. The FMM is not a tourist visa and it is not a visitante visa, it is the form used to log foreigner's EXITs and entries for Mexico.

2. It is important for Temporary Residents and Permanent Residents to boldly HAND WRITE their INM card-type (~ "RESIDENTE TEMPORAL" ~ or ~ "RESIDENTE PERMANENTE"~ ) across the top of BOTH the top half and the bottom half of their Forma Multiple Migratoria (FMM) . This eliminates (or greatly reduces) the "visitante" issue that Spencer highlights above.

3. For Residente Temporal and Residente Permanentes, when you fill out the Forma Multiple Migratoria (FMM) when you leave Mexico. As you exit, the officials keep half of the FMM form, and you then bring-back and submit the remaining half to INM when you return to Mexico. (I am guessing that joaquinx did not fill out an FMM when he left Mexico, and that he had to fill out an FMM when he returned. The INM agents do scold some Residente Temporales and Residente Permanentes for doing it this way.)

4. My passport has been stamped all 4 times by Mexican INM both as I exited Mexico and entered Mexico, since getting a Residente Permanente card.

5. There are official INM rules and "standard" procedures for these things, but individual INM offices and individual INM agents still sometimes do whatever strikes them in the moment, so SPENCER IS RIGHT:

Educate yourself. ....Be careful with what you say, .... and careful with what you sign, ... because INM offices and INM agents do make significant mistakes. If we have problems with INM, it does not work to try to blame problems on INM mistakes, even when their mistakes caused the problems.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Aug 18, 2013, 8:58 AM)

Aug 18, 2013, 9:11 AM

Post #8 of 28 (1380 views)

Re: [YucaLandia] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TO

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In Reply To

Several clarifications might be useful for readers:
1. The FMM is not a tourist visa, it is the form used to log foreigners EXITs and entries for Mexico.
2. It is important for Temporary Residents and Permanent Residents to HAND WRITE Forma Multiple Migratoria (FMM)

For Residente Temporal and Residente Permanentes, you fill out the Forma Multiple Migratoria (FMM) when you leave Mexico. As you exit, the officials keep half

Your points are ambiguous. Who would care if the FMM was a tourist form or a form. We need a little more detail on "HAND WRITE" as opposed to what?

By accident, I didn't fill out a FMM when I exited. It seems that the American Air agent had never seen a Residente Permanente card and rather then sending me to Migration, directed me the the departure gate where the Airline agent simply said, 'Get on the plane."
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.

Aug 18, 2013, 9:22 AM

Post #9 of 28 (1367 views)

Re: [joaquinx] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TO

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In Reply To

Here's another stab at explaining these issues:

"Who would care if the FMM was a tourist form or a form."

Based on 100's of old posts across Mexico, many many gringos think that an FMMs are a tourist visa or a visitante visa. None of the posts on this article make that point - and the key issue Spencer highlights is to distinguish that we NOT enter as Visitante or Tourists.... (whether by intent or by error)

"We need a little more detail on "HAND WRITE" as opposed to what? "
The FMM form has NO SPOT to formally identify what our visa status is, and there is NO SPOT on the FMM for us to specify that we are NOT VISITANTEs....

This means, as I posted above, you have to HANDWRITE your visa status, BOLDLY, across the top of each half of the FMM form....

There is a white space with no printing at the top of each half of the FMM. GOOD INM agents boldly hand-write:
"RESIDENTE TEMPORAL" .... or ..... "RESIDENTE PERMANENTE" ... onto each half of the FMM form.

Since some INM agents do not write this, we (expat - foreigners) can short-circuit the false-visitor-visa entry problems Spencer descirbes, by personally writing the correct information on our own FMMs.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

Intercasa

Aug 18, 2013, 9:31 AM

Post #10 of 28 (1366 views)

Re: [YucaLandia] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TO

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There is a place on the form to list your FM or temp or permanent number as well as boxes they need to check under the official use only section mentioning you have a temp or permanent document.
Mexican licensed attorney (Cédula #7928026) and official court translator (Perito Traductor). Mx 376-765-7553

Aug 18, 2013, 9:40 AM

Post #11 of 28 (1354 views)

Re: [Intercasa] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TO

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In Reply To

There is a place on the form to list your FM or temp or permanent number as well as boxes they need to check under the official use only section mentioning you have a temp or permanent document.

Yes, and there is a place to write your Country of Permanent Residence. I wrote "Mexico."
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.

esperanza

Aug 18, 2013, 10:27 AM

Post #12 of 28 (1331 views)

Re: [joaquinx] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TO

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Mexican citizens--whether native or naturalized--also have to fill out the FMM, if our destinations are outside Mexico.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

morgaine7

Aug 18, 2013, 11:38 AM

Post #13 of 28 (1311 views)

Re: [YucaLandia] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TO

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Quote

3. For Residente Temporal and Residente Permanentes, when you fill out the Forma Multiple Migratoria (FMM) when you leave Mexico. As you exit, the officials keep half of the FMM form, and you then bring-back and submit the remaining half to INM when you return to Mexico. (I am guessing that joaquinx did not fill out an FMM when he left Mexico, and that he had to fill out an FMM when he returned. The INM agents do scold some Residente Temporales and Residente Permanentes for doing it this way.)

They also enter residents' departures into the system when we leave, at least at the Los Cabos airport (SJD). When I returned from the US yesterday, the agent scanned the entry portion of my FMM and matched it up with my exit info from a week earler. On a previous return, the agent brought up my record and said something like, "Hey, remember me? I checked you out when you left two weeks ago!" I've never failed to fill out the FMM when I leave so don't know what happens in that case, but I'd suspect that being flagged as a tourist would be more of a risk when a resident's FMM is generated on entry to Mexico, as with tourists, rather than on exit, as is normally the case for residents.

Kate

playaboy

Aug 18, 2013, 7:58 PM

Post #14 of 28 (1248 views)

Re: [Intercasa] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TOU

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I have crossed in and out of Mexico several times in the last couple of months. I have done this by land and air.

Everything is computerized now. The FMM forms are bar coded with individual serial numbers. Your passport or Residente card is scanned and so is the FMM. It is all in the computer and they can pull up any information instantly. I asked for an extra form to take with me so I would have it pre-filled out for the next crossing. The INM agent told me that they can not do that as the forms are in sequential numbered order.

Big brother has come to Mexico and they want to watch everything we do. If you don't check out how are they going to track you? That is why they will get upset if you don't. So always fill out an FMM and learned to do it properly. You don't want any incorrect information in the system.

viktoremski

Aug 19, 2013, 11:09 AM

Post #15 of 28 (1157 views)

Re: [playaboy] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A TOU

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It works quite different when crossing on foot from Tijuana to San Diego (US). There is no INM office on the way out of Mexico, and US immigration officers will usually not stamp anything. As a result, when going on my overseas vacation, flying from San Diego airport, my passport got stamped only when I changed planes in Canada.
On my way back, arriving by plane in San Diego and crossing on foot from US into Mexico, I had to beg INM officers to stamp my entry. (I am a RP in Mexico).

dorabell

Aug 19, 2013, 2:08 PM

Post #16 of 28 (1113 views)

Re: [viktoremski] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A T

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I'm confused. Up until now I've only come and gone from Mexico as a tourist. I am currently in Mexico on my brand new residente temporal. When I leave Mexico for a vacation/trip in the future, who exactly is giving me the FMM form being discussed above to "check out" of Mexico. I don't remember ever seeing a INM officer in my process of leaving Mexico as a tourist. Are we discussing the airline employee who checks me in and in the past took my half of the FMM/tourist visa or will my exit process be different in some way and I will be directed to INM to receive the FMM when leaving Mexico?

Another question. Now when I enter Mexico it sounds like I will be returning the half of the FMM I received when I left so as to check back in to Mexico along with showing my RT card. Does this mean I do not need to fill in the FMM card they always give me on the airplane before landing in Mexico?

morgaine7

Aug 19, 2013, 2:30 PM

Post #17 of 28 (1108 views)

Re: [dorabell] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A T

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Procedures may vary a bit depending on airport and/or airline, but yes, as a resident you fill out the FMM at the airport when you leave. Always show your Residente Temporal card along with your passport when you check in at the ticket counter, and the airline agent should tell you what to do. At the airport I use (SJD Los Cabos), the airline agent directs me to an INM kiosk where I get and fill out both parts of the FMM. Then I return with the FMM to the airline agent to get my boarding pass. The exit portion of the FMM is stapled to the boarding pass and collected at the gate when I board. I keep the entry half and present it at immigration when I return to Mexico. Do not fill out another FMM on your return flight. Simply tell (or show) the flight attendant that you already have one. Yours is exactly the same as the one they're handing out, except that you've already used the exit portion. You will, however, need to complete the form they give you for Mexican customs (one form per family).

Kate

dorabell

Aug 19, 2013, 2:39 PM

Post #18 of 28 (1100 views)

Re: [morgaine7] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A T

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Thanks Morgaine7. Clearly stated and exactly what I was looking for.

playaboy

Aug 19, 2013, 2:42 PM

Post #19 of 28 (1098 views)

Re: [viktoremski] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A T

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In Reply To

It has been about 4 months since I crossed at San Ysidro to TJ. There has been a lot of construction going on. It takes some effort to find the INM office.

If it is still the same temporary crossing setup, the INM office (closet) is located by the new temproary entrance where the people entering Mexico are coming in. You have to walk out thru the "into" Mexico door to get the FMM paperwork completed. The other 2 alternatives are the INM/ Aduana/Banjercito office 3 blocks west of the old entrance into MX or at the airport.

Either way, as Spencer is trying to say, you have to complete your FMM paperwork and it is your responsibility to make sure it is done correctly. Don't count on the INM official to do it right.

viktoremski

Aug 19, 2013, 3:59 PM

Post #20 of 28 (1079 views)

Re: [playaboy] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A T

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Thanks. That's something to consider. However, for many years when departing from San Diego airport, I have been crossing on foot at San Ysidro and then coming back on foot into Mexico. All the stamps I got from EU or US didn't matter much to INM, since I was able to renew my FM3, FM2, and now have RP. Only this year I decided to insist on a stamp from INM when coming back to Mexico, to avoid possible problems with SRE when applying for citizenship in the future.
I also cross on foot to US daily, since I have a job there. INM knows about it - I had to supply them with my pay stubs every year to prove my income in order to extand the visas. It would be insane to obtain permits for these daily crossings.
Next year when going on vacation, I may try what you suggested and walk that narrow stairway against the incoming crowd, and then insist that the officials there document my exit, although I have doubts if it makes any sense at all...
Thanks anyway.

playaboy

Aug 19, 2013, 6:13 PM

Post #21 of 28 (1057 views)

Re: [viktoremski] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A T

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I never thought about the thousands of people that cross back and forth daily. It would be a pain in the neck to fill out
FMM forms all the time. Out of curiosity can you find out what INM in TJ suggests these people like you are to do?

Aug 20, 2013, 8:47 AM

Post #22 of 28 (994 views)

Re: [dorabell] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A T

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In the Cancun and Merida airports, you go to the INM office before checking in with your airline. You get an FMM and fill it out. Hint: Since the FMM is designed for RETURNING passengers, you have to enter your best guess as to the Flight and Airline and Date for your future return to Mexico.

INM checks the FMM, and approves it (that is the point where Spencer advises checking what boxes and information they entered into their "For Official Use Only" section of the FMM) - and they tear-off and keep half of your FMM. You take the other part to the airline counter to check-in for your flight.

When you return to Mexico, (correct), you enter using the remaining half of the exit-FMM, so you do not fill out an FMM. Airline personnel on the flights will generally tell you to fill one out, but they are wrong.

Happy Trails,
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

viktoremski

Aug 20, 2013, 9:16 AM

Post #23 of 28 (989 views)

Re: [playaboy] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A T

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"Out of curiosity can you find out what INM in TJ suggests these people like you are to do?"

To be honest, after obtaining RP several months ago, I'm not in a hurry to visit those offices again. Another thing is that one cannot count on the information given at their reception desk to be accurate anyway (I found that out more than once).
Anyway, since the INM never made it an issue during all the years I was extending/upgrading my visas (during which they were asking for and accepting pay stubs from my full time job accross the border), I don't think I should be making it an issue now.
It seems obvious to me that there is no system in place for pedestrian crossers, no INM office on the way out. One might try what you had suggested and walk upstream toward the entrance into Mexico, although I have never seen anybody do it, and I think it might me somewhat risky - who knows how the soldiers and officers there would react to what would seem like a gringo trying to cross to the US the wrong way.
I'll let you know if I find out anything on this subject in the future...

fishfrier

Aug 20, 2013, 12:34 PM

Post #24 of 28 (947 views)

Re: [YucaLandia] (IF YOU ARE A TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT RESIDENT) NEVER ENTER (OR EXIT) MEXICO AS A T

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I am sure you are right about the Cancun airport and INM but I flew out of Merida a month ago and did not go to any INM office. As a matter of fact the airline counter staff indicated there was no INM office at the Merida airport for that sort of stuff. I asked because I thought I needed to check with INM first. First you must check in your bags (if you have bags to check in) get your boarding pass then you can proceed to the small INM desk to get your FMM form.One must obtain their boarding pass before one can proceed.The form is easy to fill out. Fairly straight forward as a matter of fact. After going through security there is another desk to hand in the correct portion of the form. Since I had return tickets there was no guessing as to the airline or flight number upon returning. When I returned I went through the Mexican citizen line since it was empty. The person manning the desk said I should be in the foreigner line then proceeded to check me through.

Aug 20, 2013, 12:54 PM

Post #25 of 28 (940 views)