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geri

Nov 14, 2006, 3:05 PM

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Things are heating up in Chiapas

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Well things are heating up in Chiapas. More people killed there (11 or 12) in one swat than in Oaxaca in six months, although APPO claims "missing persons." There was a peace ceremony by Chiapas folk in front of the Cathedral in the zocalo while I was away, a peaceful peace ceremony, with offerings to protestors in Oaxaca. It was short-lived because they traveled in rental trucks and were short on cash.

The Sunday concert happened in the zocalo also, but things are far from "normal." Still, every little bit of normalcy is hailed here!

(This post was edited by tonyburton on Nov 14, 2006, 7:17 PM)

jacpowell

Nov 14, 2006, 5:48 PM

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Re: Things are heating up in Chiapas

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Were these killings in Chiapas recently, or were you referring to earlier events? If recent, who is killing them and why?

Jackie

(This post was edited by tonyburton on Nov 14, 2006, 7:17 PM)

Bubba

Nov 14, 2006, 8:41 PM

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Re: [jacpowell] Things are heating up in Chiapas

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Jackie:

What geri is referring to is killings resulting from long festering land disputes in the Lacandon Forest among indigenous people. On Monday nine people were killed including two infants in an ongoing dispute among isolated communities in that region . It would be a good idea to use caution if one is planning a trip to the Yaxchilan area on the Usumacinta River. These killings are a separate issue from sympathy demonstrations in Oaxaca on the part of groups from Chiapas which have been non-violent.

Conditions in Chiapas do not mirror conditons in Oaxaca and we will soon visit San Cristobal without reservation. Of course, we will also be visiting indigenous friends living in the environs of Oaxaca City as well. What the hell. So, it´s chaotic there. What´s new?

(This post was edited by Bubba on Nov 14, 2006, 8:46 PM)

jacpowell

Nov 14, 2006, 8:49 PM

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Re: [Bubba] Things are heating up in Chiapas

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So are the Lancandon fighting among themselves? We had a delightful dinner with a little L. family at Na Bolom. Not much language among us, but there was a small baby in the family that provided a good basis for pantomime. I've wanted to learn more about them, but perhaps I should rely only on reading for a while.

Jackie

sfmacaws

Nov 15, 2006, 12:23 AM

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Re: [Bubba] Things are heating up in Chiapas

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Who zoomed who Bubba? I know the Lancandon feel they are getting pushed out by Maya and others moving into their traditional area, there is a great deal of movement into that area now that there are roads. One of the things that the new highway along the southern border was predicted to do was increase the problems for the Lancandon as it was easier for others to move in. While the Lancandon are also Maya, they are I believe Quiche Maya (and have been so separate from Maya culture for so long as to really be something else entirely) as opposed to the highland Maya that predominate in Chiapas. I may have that all wrong but if so I'm sure someone will get it right.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

Bubba

Nov 15, 2006, 6:57 AM

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Re: [sfmacaws] Things are heating up in Chiapas

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There is some confusion as to the number of people who have been killed and who have disappeared or been captured but according to La Jornada on November 14th in a story originating in Nueva Velasco Suarez, Municipality of Ocosingo, the Fray Bartolome de las Casas Center for Human Rights reports that at least six have been killed, two disappeared and two captured by the Priistas of Nueva Palestina in a clash over 30 hectares resulting in the expulsion of six families. An undetermined number have been wounded in an attack by militants associated with the EZLN and the organization Xi-Nich.

Things are confused at present but this appears to be a long simmering local dispute among the Lacandon. At present, the violence is isolated to this community. I´ll keep following the news stories.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Nov 15, 2006, 8:43 AM)

Bubba

Nov 15, 2006, 7:54 AM

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Re: [Bubba] Things are heating up in Chiapas

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Lacandon people as in people living in the Lacandon jungle. The group fighting are Tzeltals versus Choles ( and PRI versis EZLN-PRD as well as usual ). When you look at the names of the villages where it is happening they all indicated that these are communities of people who had to resettle and it is not surprising they fight over land . Since many of the villages have growing population the pressure on the land is big. The village is supposed to give communal land to the newly wed couples if they request it and the land is getting too small for the population hence fighting with the other villages.
The Lacandon people as far as I know are not fighting but who knows...

We too had several dinners with them and most of them were very shy and did not want to have contacts with outsiders. They go to Na Balom when they need medical aid and stay there as long as there is a need for one of them to be treated. Some of them hate the idea of staying there and are found begging for money for the hospital in Tuxtla. They told us they did not like nor want strangers to come to their land. They would rather sell their artisania via a third person and keep all strangers out of the jungle. Strangers being every one who is not related to their tribe. They need the jungle in order to continue their life style and they feel the land pressure as well.

From what I know the original Lacandon have all disappeared. The current Lacandon People are Mayas who lived around Palenque and were kicked out probably by the Choles.

The Tzeltals are also coming from the highlands into the Lacandon as their population grows and as religious and political expulsions take place.

Fighting over land between various groups is very common .

Brigitte

(This post was edited by Bubba on Nov 15, 2006, 8:46 AM)

Bubba

Nov 15, 2006, 10:53 AM

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Re: [Bubba] Things are heating up in Chiapas

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Incidentally, the title of this thread is quite misleading. Saying that Chiapas is heating up because of this isolated, long-standing and violent regional feud is similar to saying that the Ozarks are heating up because some Hatfields shot some McCoys. The Southern Forum seems to attract this sort of hyperbole. Let´s keep these discussions on an even keel.

I must admit, however, that I find it personally pleasing that there is this general myth among many Mexicans and foreigners that this whole region is in turmoil and that misconception is helping to limit the Nortefornication of this beautiful land. Let´s hear it for baseless fear.