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geri

Oct 26, 2006, 7:30 PM

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Oaxaca Update

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It's pretty peaceful and calm here except for traffic tieups due to blockaded streets. But there are increasing numbers of traffic cops, especially during rush hours.

The zocalo area is pretty ugly looking, but there are tourists here and the ones I talk to seem to be doing okay and enjoying. The city doesn't have the hustle/bustle touristy feeling, which is okay by me. I'm amazed by the many erroneous and exaggerated media reports. It's hard to know what the truth really is. I guess I don't live where the "action" is. However, I walk all over town just about every day. Not at night, however.

Word has it that almost all the roads in Oaxaca re going to be blocked tomorrow. A one-day stepped up protest action. No one knows if there will be police/military action against this increased blockage or not. I'm not predicting any resolution soon. Hope I'm wrong.

wendy devlin

Oct 27, 2006, 11:14 AM

Post #2 of 67 (3930 views)

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Re: [geri] Oaxaca Update

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Please keep us posted, geri.
A city=wide protest today, blocking transportation access.

A lot of people are passing around news links and links to sites, like Mark in Mexico's blog.

Mark has much different perception/slant on the situation than yours. And not beyond attempting via the internet to influence people to his views.

I read Stan Gotleib's ezine from Oaxaca from time to time.

We go back as e-pals to the early day of the net. He has a bias as well, but is not known for anxiety attacks. And Oaxaca City been his wife and his, home for 15? years or more.

Like you say, the situation is complicated.

geri

Oct 27, 2006, 12:50 PM

Post #3 of 67 (3917 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Oaxaca Update

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Yes, the citywide blockade announced in advance is in effect today, Friday, I think. I heard from someone who is stranded outside of Oaxaca City. I am expecting dinner guests from the Mixteca Alta tonight. They may or may not get here. I'm sure there are ways to get into and out of the city, but you have to weave around and know your way around. I think there would be federal military action if there was NO ingress or egress. Just my guess. What do I know?

The blockade isn't affecting me personally, because I don't have a car. The Friday farmer's market was jammed as usual, so farmers are getting their produce into the city and people are getting there to buy it. There has NEVER been a shortage of food or other products here, as reported by one hysterical journalist. I am really getting in "insight" into why the public is suspect re the media. An interesting enlightenment for this former journalist! Does that mean I'm not too old to learn??

Someone posted on Lonely Planet forum that schools are going to open Monday. As far as I know, they are not. That was an announcement a week or two ago. That's one of the problems. By the time news hits the Internet, it's OLD news and a dozen other things have happened in between. (Well, that might be a bit of an exaggeration.) Like some other people who live here, I am a bit angry with certain news reporters (probably freelancers who need to write a weekly article in order to get paid). Because no trauma/violence has occurred this week, he/she writes a summary of the past five months, i.e. buildings burning, people killed, thieves tortured, without a timeline. Although it's not actually stated, the reader thinks it happened within a few days rather than over a period of 5 months.

Oh well, it is certainly interesting here! I still hold out hope that in the end this will result in a "bit" of social change and a more just political system. Progress is slow. Poco a poco as the Mexicans say.

Brian

Oct 27, 2006, 5:18 PM

Post #4 of 67 (3890 views)

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Re: [geri] Oaxaca Update

Of course, this may be another instance of inaccurate reporting and rehashing old news as geri says but, as I read it, a foreigner working as a news photographer was shot to death while covering the conflict in Oaxaca. Also, another teacher was killed today. Here is a link to the story:

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/noticias.html

http://vientos.info/cml/?q=node/5821

Listen Live: http://67.15.192.20:8010/listen.pls

And this from Mark in Mexicos blog:

"It does not cease to amaze me how many people, mostly Americans, are not taking the violence and danger here seriously. I still receive emails saying, "Everyone is so friendly," and, "We didn't have any trouble at all." They then go on to castigate me for blowing the situation out of proportion. Well, maybe so. If they consider the 7 Mexicans who have been murdered and the one who was decapitated by the steel cable stretched across a street as, in some manner, proportional, then maybe they're right. My view on it is that a murder is a murder. Furthermore, as far as the "We haven't had any trouble at all,", neither had the now dead American, at least not up until today. It only takes one time, as he discovered, much too late."

Brian

(This post was edited by Brian on Oct 27, 2006, 7:48 PM)

waltw

Oct 27, 2006, 6:04 PM

Post #5 of 67 (3878 views)

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Re: [geri] Oaxaca Update

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Well Geri,

Certainly an interesting and historic time to be in Oaxaca. Walking back from Las Canteras, a local park near the house, I walked up to the main highway to buy some bread at the local panaderia. Literally hundreds of people walking down the center of the highway, as buses block traffic at both ends. At the far end towards Santa Lucia, buses and taxis wait in a line to take commuters out of town and back to neighboring villages. A Vespa is the vehicle of choice - small enough to manuveur around the blockades.

Saw an quote inscribed on a restaurant wall behind Llano Park yesterday, attributed to Mahatma Ghandi. Perhaps a bit of advice intended for the various political factions in Oaxaca? "Ojo por ojo, y todos quedamos ciegos."

geri

Oct 27, 2006, 8:29 PM

Post #6 of 67 (3840 views)

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Re: [waltw] Oaxaca Update

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Walt, I think a journalist got killed near there tonight. I don't have details, just chisme. Also reports of an American killed near Cinco Los Senores. I know this will make some people on this forum happy. They can say "I told you so." I still hold out hope that it will be solved via negotiation and I still maintain that there have been few deaths in proportion to the size of the protest.

Gayla

Oct 27, 2006, 10:07 PM

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Re: [geri] Oaxaca Update

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Geri, here's a link to the AP wire story that's currently circulating NOB right now.

http://enews.earthlink.net/...52620061027612380054

waltw

Oct 27, 2006, 10:11 PM

Post #8 of 67 (3831 views)

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Re: [geri] Oaxaca Update

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Geri,

On the news tonight, TV Azteca reported 4 deaths in the state of Oaxaca as a result of the violence and an estimated 300 barracades set up throughout the city. The governor of Oaxaca was interviewed, calling again for the intervention of the federal police.

I have not seen a death toll that high confirmed yet, though, by any other news source.

The cameraman was apparently shot and killed in Santa Lucia, which is a few blocks from our place. There seems to be some confusion now, as to his real identity and whether he was German or American.

Things do seem to be taking a turn for the worse.

sfmacaws

Oct 27, 2006, 11:42 PM

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Re: [waltw] Oaxaca Update

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TV Azteca just came on here in Arizona and said the PFP has moved into Oaxaca City in the last hour. There was some video of riot police with shields moving across a street. It would seem that something is happening.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

Brian

Oct 28, 2006, 7:56 AM

Post #10 of 67 (3795 views)

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Re:Well it is about time, President Fox

Finally Federal police have been sent to restore order to this chaotic situation. Why did it take so long to do what was obviously necessary? The cynic in me says that the murder of an American news photographer was the final straw. In any event the deadly occurrences yesterday and, likely, those yet to come, could have been avoided if partisan politics had not been an overriding concern for the government to do its job.

Take a look at this slideshow to see how bad it finally has gotten:

http://fotos.eluniversal.com.mx/fotogaleria/wfg.html?gal=2838

Brian

(This post was edited by Brian on Oct 28, 2006, 7:58 AM)

waltw

Oct 28, 2006, 9:02 AM

Post #11 of 67 (3779 views)

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Re: [waltw] Oaxaca Update

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Had to go into Col. Reforma early this morning. The buses that had blocked the main highway yesterday had been removed. Remaining were a fallen tree, burning tires, stones and a felled telephone pole. However, there was enough space to pass through each of the barracades. On my return to the house, all the barracades on main highway appear to have been removed.

Brian

Oct 28, 2006, 9:08 AM

Post #12 of 67 (3773 views)

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Re: [waltw] Oaxaca Update

Walt

APPO has given the order to lift many of the barricades in order to reinforce those deemed most necessary. Read the story here:

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/384159.html

geri

Oct 28, 2006, 9:31 AM

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Re: [waltw] Oaxaca Update

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It was a pretty weird night here last night, with rumors, violent TV scenes, etc. Other than what links you guys have posted, I don't have any information. I slept in this morning. It's VERY quiet. In fact it was quiet where I was last night, at a couple of art openings in centro, and I got home by taxi easily. However, it looked pretty bad in some neighborhoods on the 10:30 news. I haven't talked to a lot of Mexicans, but the ones I have feel that the shootings were "instigated." Brian, I think they needed violence as an excuse to bring in the Federal police. Mexico is very different than the U.S. It's hard to "adjust" your thinking to explain actions here.

Brian

Oct 28, 2006, 9:48 AM

Post #14 of 67 (3763 views)

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Re: [geri] Oaxaca Update

geri

I am puzzled by your choice of words "violence as an excuse to bring in the Federal police". Isn't the role of police to stop violence from occurring in any community whether in Mexico or the US. I moved to the US last July after living 10 years fulltime in Mexico (including several in Tijuana) and don't see where I need to adjust my thinking regarding actions in Mexico. It was allowed to go on for far too long. Re-read some of the thread here entitled "articles on Oaxaca" Ana Maria Salazar (not an American) saw this coming. Here is a post I made three weeks ago (10/4/06) on this message board:

From Ana Maria Salazar's blog:

" Stay away from Oaxaca.... It is hard to believe that the federal government has allowed the Oaxaca conflict to go so far. There is no government, there are no laws. And even though their demands may be just, including the stepping down of the governor, the APPO and the Teachers Union have kidnapped the City. This is not a peaceful movement and they are willing to use violence, even extreme violence if necessary. I was interviewing Dane Schiller from the San Antonio Express who was at the Zocalo in Oaxaca, for my daily shows Imagen News. And as the interview on his cell phone was taking place a group of 40 men approached him started screaming at him, demanding to find out who he was talking to, what was he doing, and they definitely started to harass. This was a potentially violent situation, which Dane handled magnificently. He was able to de-escalate the situation and actually continued with the interview with me…But believe me, it was a dangerous situation for Dane. In fact as he was finishing the interview, he let the audience know that the APPO thugs were detaining another man. We later found out that this man is being “tried” by the protesters…."

When the community started policing itself and administering vigilante justice, Fox should have said "Ya Basta!"

Brian

(This post was edited by Brian on Oct 28, 2006, 9:53 AM)

arbon

Oct 28, 2006, 12:48 PM

Post #15 of 67 (3732 views)

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Re: [Brian] Oaxaca Update

"I am puzzled by your choice of words "violence as an excuse to bring in the Federal police". Isn't the role of police to stop violence from occurring in any community whether in Mexico or the US."

Prevention is not a high priority any where, whether it be drugs, crime, violence, oil, health care, ETC' ETC".

But if people in power want some thing to happen or change, excuses will be forthcoming, and if excuses are not forthcoming soon enough they will be instigated.

Even if it needs to be by infiltrating into the "Opposition" as " possos".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

esperanza

Oct 28, 2006, 1:16 PM

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Re: [Brian] Oaxaca Update

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Isn't the role of police to stop violence from occurring in any community whether in Mexico or the US.
_________________________________________________________
Brian, that statement often doesn't hold true here in Mexico--or even in the USA. Remember Tlatelolco, 1968? Remember Chicago, 1969? Remember...and then remember that the role of the police, nearly 40 years later, is sometimes to incite violence where unrest already exists, not to stop it from occurring.

Brian

Oct 28, 2006, 1:21 PM

Post #17 of 67 (3727 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Oaxaca Update

Esperanza

Your spanish is much better than mine. Would you please explain the term "policia preventiva". I have never seen it used in the United States but, at least in SMA, it is a distinct branch of the local justice system. Also, I do not think that it is fair to those who have dedicated their lives to law enforcement to be lumped together with egregious historical abuses of authority. Thank you.

Brian

(This post was edited by Brian on Oct 28, 2006, 1:23 PM)

esperanza

Oct 28, 2006, 1:36 PM

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Re: [Brian] Oaxaca Update

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http://repositories.cdlib.org/usmex/prajm/yanez/

In the first paragraph of the linked abstract, the author (Arturo Yáñez) makes the point that the policia preventiva functions not as Mexican security, but rather as an administrative institution. He goes on to state that the confusion about the legal framework of the policia preventiva clashes with the expectations of the citizenry.

It would appear that you have fallen victim to the same confusion that Yáñez mentions.

I completely agree that not all police engage in 'egregious [historical] abuses of authority'. However, all of my Mexican friends--to a person--have expressed grave fear of the use of either police or army personnel to 'resolve' the ongoing troubles in Oaxaca.

The whole world is watching.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Brian

Oct 28, 2006, 2:03 PM

Post #19 of 67 (3709 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Oaxaca Update

You are correct that I am confused and, as the article indicates, I share this confusion with much of the Mexican citizenry. So, if you are able to do so, would you please explain what the policia preventiva actually do. What does it mean that they function as an administrative institution? The ones with which I am familiar sure do act like cops, arresting people on the spot for crimes committed and yes, breaking up groups of rowdies before things can get out of hand.

Also, I share the concern that your friends have about the police coming in now to restore order. My point has been that it has been allowed to go on for too long. Thus it is now more likely that there will be further acts of violence than had it been nipped in the bud so to speak.

un saludo cordial

Brian

(This post was edited by Brian on Oct 28, 2006, 2:08 PM)

geri

Oct 28, 2006, 2:18 PM

Post #20 of 67 (3699 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Oaxaca Update

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Esperanza, that's what my Mexican friends have told me also. All of them "suspect" that violence is provocated, including the incidents last night. I have no idea. Many people wanted Federal intervention, but it was kind of difficult for Federal police to move in on a bunch of people sitting around playing cards and guitars and embroidering. Now that the protest is escalating, the police will come in. I have NO idea what will happen. It could get better, it could get worse.

I should clarify that when I say "Mexico," I actually mean Oaxaca. That is my only experience in Mexico. I'm sure it's much different in other parts. All I know is that I am amazed at the people's spirit/resilience here...on both sides. Or all sides, however many there may be. Some are for, some are against the protest, but all are adapting. I am witnessing tremendous strength re flexibility and adaptation. The city has functioned for five months without a police force, with, I still maintain, few deaths given the size of the city and the size and duration of the protest. Unlike Brian, I don't know what should be done. I don't know enough about the politics, the corruption/injustice that I'm told exists and which triggered the turmoil. All I know is what I see and for sure I live in one of the safer neighborhoods of long-established middle class people. For me, living in Mexico is about giving up control. I don't HAVE to decide what should be done. It has been freeing to me to just let things happen and watch how people cope amid turmoil, including myself. It is really hard to explain.

When this all started, the young "indigenous" man who delivers my potable water assured me that I would be safe. That I was in no danger. That was so sweet of him. This morning, he looked very sad and told me, "Hay muchos problemas in Oaxaca hoy." It's almost as if he had to apologize for his people. I answered, "Es triste, verdad." I do feel sad, and I only hope that a federal police presence will solve the problem. If that action clears up things now, however, the underlying causes (whatever they are) will still be there only to erupt again, won't they?

waltw

Oct 28, 2006, 6:43 PM

Post #21 of 67 (3651 views)

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Re: [Brian] Oaxaca Update

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Thanks Brian,

I was wondering why those barracades suddenly disappeared. Makes sense now.

VSOP

Oct 28, 2006, 9:28 PM

Post #22 of 67 (3622 views)

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Re: [geri] Oaxaca Update

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Police Ordered to Oaxaca After 3 Killings in Strike - washingtonpost.com

No hay rosas sin espinas . . .

waltw

Oct 29, 2006, 6:05 AM

Post #23 of 67 (3598 views)

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Re: [VSOP] Oaxaca Update

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This article says that APPO has just abandoned the barracades in the Zocalo.

http://www.elfinanciero.com.mx/...docid&sortby=ASC

geri

Oct 29, 2006, 9:02 AM

Post #24 of 67 (3560 views)

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Re: [waltw] Oaxaca Update

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Buses aren't coming up my street today, so some of the bus routes must be open. My street has been a bus detour route. ADO first class buses from DF are coming in today, but not UNO or ADO GL they told me at the bus station. I hear helicopters overhead, probably the easiest way to spot the barricades. APPO says they aren't going to fight the Feds. I haven't heard any report of killings last night. Dunno.

geri

Oct 29, 2006, 10:58 AM

Post #25 of 67 (3534 views)

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Re: [geri] Oaxaca Update

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I was a bit too optimistic this morning. Now word is that buses from DF to Oaxaca aren't coming today, Sunday. There may not be any city buses running...that's why they aren't coming up my street! I have a guest who can't get to Mitla and I know two people in Mitla who don't seem to be able to get into Oaxaca. I think there's a big march planned for this afternoon. Just an on-ground report in case anyone out there is interested.

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