Forums > Areas > Southern Mexico

Bubba

May 28, 2006, 7:51 AM

Post #1 of 9 (3052 views)

Shortcut

Midnight Flyer

Can't Post | Private Reply

The buses that leave San Cristobal for just about anywhere leave at night since San Cristobal is so far away from just about anyplace. So, there I was on the 8:00PM ADO express from San Cristobal to Oaxaca with just a couple of stops in Tuxtla Gutierrez and Tehuantepec. This is an arduous ride taking about 12 hours through the Isthmus of Tehuantepec and up the rugged mountainous road to Oaxaca. One driver the whole way. No less than eight stops by both military and customs officials who boarded the bus to flash their lights in the faces of most dark skinned passengers and, occasionally demand identification. Racial profiling is big in southern Mexico as impoverished illegal immigrants from Central America flood the area and ride the buses or the Tapachula ¨train of death¨ north toward El Norte. If you read the local press in Chiapas. you see the wave of crime accompanying this movement. Violent opportunistic crime committed by young men from Central America is commonplace. Crime against those same young men and women committed by officials on all sides of the borders is also commonplace. It is a difficult situation.

We rode into Oaxaca City in the early morning only to be confronted with traffic gridlock because of a teachers´strike that had paralized the historic center of town and this town, which is normally a nightmare of traffic congestion and air pollution, was a traffic disaster. Teachers from all over Oaxaca State and other states were camped out in the zocalo and environs and the mood among locals was nasty. I am not taking sides on the strike; simply commenting on its ramifications. Oaxaca is not a relaxed town and there are issues regarding political leanings, provision of municipal services and class conflict that are all encompassing. Of all the towns I have visited in Mexico, this is the place where the word ¨rude¨when applied to drivers is not an epithet but a compliment. Here we have this marvelously beautiful historic city surrounded by ratty development and a constant cocophany of loud and insistent horn blowing and bus drivers from hell.

As much as I love to visit this beautiful but tired place I can´t imagine living there.

Here is the definitive Oaxaca story:

Oaxaca city has a chronic water shortage exacerbated by the teachers´strike and local hotels were warning us to use water sparingly. We stayed in two different hotels who warned us that the water supply was very limited. When we complained that we had no hot water, we were told that it was necessary to run the hot water tap for up to ten minutes before the water would achieve an acceptable level of heat.

We got out of this hellhole and visited some strikingly beautiful surrounding mountainous areas but that is another story. That is one beautiful state.

(This post was edited by Bubba on May 28, 2006, 7:58 AM)

Bloviator

May 28, 2006, 10:20 AM

Post #2 of 9 (3011 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bubba] Midnight Flyer

Can't Post | Private Reply

Is this a different Bubba from the one that commented a few months ago that anyone over thirty who rides a bus is a failure?

Bubba

May 28, 2006, 12:59 PM

Post #3 of 9 (2979 views)

Shortcut

Re: [dlyman6500] Midnight Flyer

Can't Post | Private Reply

Quite seriously, Dlyman, let´s talk about the bus vs. airplane thing. I have re-thought this issue for long journeys..

The two of us went to San Cristobal de las Casas from Ajijic via Aviacsa. We returned by bus.

If you routinely read the Guadalajara newspapers as do we you know that the airlines are now offering discounted fares every week. You will only know about this if you read the local press.

Here is the example:

We flew on one way fares to Tuxtla from Guadalajara on a Mother´s Day special where my wife flew for an extra $200 Pesos. The entire one way fare was $3,800 Pesos. That was for a 45 minute flight from Guadalajara to DF with a short layover and connecting one hour flight to Tuxtla. We left at 8:30AM and arrived in Tuxtla at 12:30PM. A piece of cake.

Coming back we took luxury buses that took about 24 hard hours to get from Tuxtla to Guadalajara. The fare for both of us on the bus one way aggregated around $2,500 Pesos.

Now here is the bus schedule:

Leave Tuxtla at 9:00PM and arrive in Oaxaca at 7:00AM the next day.
Leave Oaxaca at 9:30AM and arrive at Mexico Del Norte at 4;00PM
Leave Mexico Del Norte at 10:00PM and arrive at Guadalajara at 5:0o0AM.

Then a taxi to Ajijic.

I promise you that your butt hurts a lot by the time this is over.

These are the luxury buses.

Tell me what your time is worth and then tell me what the relative value of a sore butt and an extra 20 hours out of your life is worth to you. If you answer that you will ride the bus then get on that bus.

(This post was edited by Bubba on May 28, 2006, 1:01 PM)

drfugawe

May 29, 2006, 7:09 AM

Post #4 of 9 (2942 views)

Shortcut

Re: [dlyman6500] Midnight Flyer

Can't Post | Private Reply

In Reply To

Is this a different Bubba from the one that commented a few months ago that anyone over thirty who rides a bus is a failure?

Hummm, ... me thinks the gentleman's question doth yet go unanswered.

Yes, there is little most of us would argue with in your analysis, but add the cost of the hotel in Oaxoca, and meals along the way, and it couldn't have been much more to fly back as well. So don't hold us in suspense any longer - why then then did YOU choose to slum it in the luxury bus on your return journey?

Come'on Bubba, admit it - flying is just boring, but bus travel in Mexico is one of life's little snippits of excitement.
jm
_________________________

"Self-respect: the secure feeling
that no one, as yet, is suspicious."
H.L. Mencken
____________###

Bloviator

May 29, 2006, 8:39 AM

Post #5 of 9 (2932 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bubba] Midnight Flyer

Can't Post | Private Reply

Bubba

I'm the idiot who drove to Playa del Carmen over Christmas just for the fun of it. It only took six days one way and four the other and cost about three times the exhorbitant cost of flying. But it was a wonderful experience, even getting lost in Puebla both coming and going.

I also took part of the route at your advice and saw an area that I would never have seen otherwise and greatly enjoyed - the mountains above Xalapa. Thanks.

I am not questioning your choice of travel. I was just zinging you because you did the same to the person who was asking about bus travel a couple of months ago.

Besides, you're a good target.

bournemouth

May 29, 2006, 12:18 PM

Post #6 of 9 (2915 views)

Shortcut

Re: [dlyman6500] Midnight Flyer

Can't Post | Private Reply

A "what goes around, comes around" kind of situation?

(This post was edited by bournemouth on May 29, 2006, 12:18 PM)

Bubba

May 29, 2006, 12:31 PM

Post #7 of 9 (2913 views)

Shortcut

Re: [dlyman6500] Midnight Flyer

Can't Post | Private Reply

Thank you Dlyman and Fugawe:

I take pride in being a successful straight man.

Here is the upside of bus travel. There is some extraordinary scenery between Tuxtla and DF. A portion of the ride over the autopista from Oaxaca City to DF is quite beautiful.

There are two autopistas no one should die without experiencing. The autopist from San Cristobal and the autopista from Tuxtla to the Veracruz-Villahermosa Autopista. Magnificent rides through heaven.

The flight from DF to Tuxtla is also charming and you can drink booze to top it off.

My remark about being a loser if you rode the bus after thirty was, as you both know, meant to be sardonic in nature. Bubba grew up so long ago that he used to sit on his grand front porch in the 1940s and early 50s in then isoltaed South Alabama counting cars along US Highway 31 heading from Cincinnati to New Orleans that were not blac in color . Later, Bubba played that game with an Early Times Bourbon Shooter and cannot remember who won but it may have been my brother who is dead as a doornail at the present time and therefore can no longer take succor in his useless victories.

Damn near every car was black in those days and you had to be pretty brazen to drive around in a green car. If your car was fuschia, they would hang you on the spot.

(This post was edited by Bubba on May 29, 2006, 12:34 PM)

geri

May 30, 2006, 7:42 AM

Post #8 of 9 (2872 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bubba] Midnight Flyer

Can't Post | Private Reply

Boy, your timing was off this time! I guess the HUGE protest in Oaxaca isn't getting any press? Yesterday, I stood for about 15 minutes watching more than 4,000 teachers march to the zocalo. It was pretty incredible, even for an old timer like me. The teachers actually have a lot of fun (well, creative spirit at least) during their annual campout in Oaxaca City. In yesterday's march, they carried back boxes scripted with "Descanso en paz, Ulises." Shouts of Rateros came from marchers carrying huge paper mache rats. Ulises face was plastered to the front of a big, handmade, serpent. Fox got his share of ridicule also.

I, too, don't feel informed enough to take sides, but protesting is an "art form" in Oaxaca. Not an original phrase with me.

Nope, not a relaxing city, but the countryside (accessible most days) is magnificent and the city is alive with sounds and sights of Mexico, all day and all night, as you have noted. That's why not many gringos live here, so you are in the majority, Bubba. Truly sorry that you came in May. May is about the only month in the year that I would definitely advise people NOT to come to Oaxaca.

Bubba

May 30, 2006, 11:24 AM

Post #9 of 9 (2854 views)

Shortcut

Re: [geri] Midnight Flyer

Can't Post | Private Reply

geri:

My wife is from Paris so we know all about the May manifestaciones in certain urban areas. We were not disappointed by the strike but found it amusing except for the inconvenience it caused us while driving or taking taxis. On the other hand, there were many gringo tourists who were infuriated that the famous zocalo was such zoo. They probably would not have liked Oaxaca anyway.

Oaxaca was not our destination on this trip but a side adventure. We were visiting the highlands of Chiapas during the April/May Jalisco heat wave which we find unpleasant. We go to Oaxaca about twice a year because we have friends in Teotitlan del Valle of whom we are quite fond. Otherwise, we might never set foot in that place again.

Now, I have to say this. Oaxaca is a splendid architectural treasure but, as I have said before, it has outgrown its infrastructure so is a most unpleasant place in which to live or try to negotiate normal everyday functions. Unlike San Cristobal de las Casas or Queretaro or any number of other places that have maintained civility, Oaxaca is a place where civility appears to be compromised. The city is anarchic, noisy, polluted, uncivil, stuffed with people and cars far beyond its capacity, unjust toward its poor citizens, financially poor beyond words, starved for decent restaurants, besieged by criminally negligent bus drivers, run down, a municipal backwater and, worst of all, a pretentious place assuming an exotic air when its basically a hick town.

And what is amazing is that I kind of like the place but you couldn´t pay me to live there and I typically like funky, edgy places..