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RickS

Sep 18, 2013, 12:18 PM

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Mérida Real Estate II

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Let's try again....

(This post was edited by RickS on Sep 18, 2013, 12:19 PM)

YucaLandia

Sep 18, 2013, 12:38 PM

Post #2 of 14 (392 views)

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Re: [RickS] Mérida Real Estate II

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Some opportunities in life take time to develop. Short of posting deeds for our 12 hectares of properties, and posting meeting notes from work with developers, maybe readers would enjoy fotos of actual real estate development: Yucatan style.

We have recently gutted an old building in one of Merida's nicest colonias, Garcia Gineres, to convert it from a former family rabbit-warren of bedrooms for 9, into 4 unique apartments. Garcia Gineres is Merida's oldest "suburb", lying just north of Centro. Garcia Gineres has a mix of quintas, family homes, and old mansions on one of Merida's avenues: Avenida Colon - named after the European "discoverer" of the new world: Cristobal Colon - (since the "Columbus" name is an English fiction). Garcia Gineres is also the home of Merida's largest and oft-considered nicest park: Parque Las Americas. Parque Las Americas occupies 4 city blocks, and includes a nice amphitheatre, lovely little library, fountains, monuments to every country in the Americas, and the largest kid's park and playground in Merida. Both our home and our 4 apartment building are just 3 blocks from this park and 4 blocks from Clinica de Merida, one of the peninsula's top hospitals.

Our personal home is a relatively modern cuatro cuarto "Estilo Miami", art-deco home on Calle 24, just north of Centro, built in 1962 by mi suegro: Rolando Loroño Delgado. Ing. Loroño was a noted civil engineer who built roads and bridges as the Chief Civil Engineer for 4 different states: Yucatan, Campeche, Tabasco, and Guerrero. Ing. Loroño was officially honored by the Gob. Federal de Mexico in 1994 for his decades of service to our country. The building tradition continues with one daughter and son, architect and engineer. If you have ever driven from Merida to Cancun, you likely enjoyed some of our work - as a key member of the group of 4 firms that built the cuota (tollroad). If you have driven from Cancun south to Tulum and on to Chetumal, you have also driving on roads built by mi familia. Enough history: back to the Merida Real Estate Development topic.

Here are examples of our latest project. These are today's fotos of developing a 4 apartment building in Garcia Gineres:

The architects for the project are mi hermana: Rosa Evangelina Loroño Pino and her partner Sr. Hernan . People familiar with Merida may know them as the architects in charge of the reconversion - remodeling of our Peón Contreras Opera Hall, when we converted back from a movie theater, returning it into its current classical form.

Our little building is no great work of art, but it does feature integrated internal green areas, natural lighting and natural ventilation in the tradition of Gaudi's principles from a century ago. Each apartment has it's own individual unique character, surrounding a modestly distinctive tower.

I will continue to post updated fotos as our little corner of the Merida Real Estate development continues. People interested in investing in a small hotel/restaurant/resort development can contact me by PM, and those who dream really big should feel free to contact me by PM for development of the remaining 10 hectares we have that is just waiting for the right prospects.

We hope to have the apartments built-out and furnished by November of this year, so if you'd like a place to stay in Merida, send me a PM.

Happy Trails,
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by RickS on Sep 18, 2013, 2:21 PM)

cbviajero

Sep 18, 2013, 1:03 PM

Post #3 of 14 (381 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Mérida Real Estate II

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People interested in investing in a small hotel/restaurant/resort development can contact me by PM, and those who dream really big should feel free to contact me by PM for development of the remaining 10 hectares we have that is just waiting for the right prospects.

We hope to have the apartments built-out and furnished by November of this year, so if you'd like a place to stay in Merida, send me a PM.

Happy Trails,
steve

Shouldn't this be in the (Mexico Business Only/Trade)Forum?

YucaLandia

Sep 18, 2013, 1:23 PM

Post #4 of 14 (372 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Mérida Real Estate II

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My tongue was planted firmly in my cheek when writing the promo bits.

The previous thread included multiple requests for details, facts and substance to back up what I reported. This last post is a simple attempt meet that request through descriptions to outsiders of why Merida has some charms for NOB snowbirds.

We are one of the oldest cities in the Hemisphere. We have the Hemisphere's oldest cathedral, and the Hemisphere's second oldest University. Merida was the home to the most millionaires in all the world for the decades of the Green Gold, and the many benefits of that era remain. Recently, for most years we have had only 1 or 2 murders a year, proving levels of safety and tranquility which no other North American metropolitan area of 1 milllion people can match.

There are beautiful parks, elegant colonias, some access to cultural events like opera, symphony, and fine art, and we are the center for the best medical and educational facilities for 500 miles around. In addition to these benefits, the beach is just a 30 minute drive away for most Meridadanos. For people with interest in the past, some of the finest buildings and finest art of the ancient world lie within easy drives of Merida.

If people can stand the heat and humidity, Merida offers many things to US and Canadian snowbirds.

Having said all these things, the people of Yucatan are very warm, friendly, and welcoming - making Merida real estate even more attractive.
Happy Trails,
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Sep 18, 2013, 1:26 PM)

fishfrier

Sep 19, 2013, 5:55 AM

Post #5 of 14 (329 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Mérida Real Estate II

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The last sentence, in my opinion, is a little rose colored glassesish. How is that for a new word? I would not agree with the statement as a generality. Certainly there are some Yucatecos that are warm and friendly, much like anywhere in the world, but welcoming? For the most part I have found Yucatecos to be suspicious, passive/aggressive and superstitious. I have experienced many, many occasions where Yucatecos will tell me what they think I want to hear only to do something else. Even my students from other parts of Mexico agree with that.
While I agree that Merida and the surrounding area is quite safe (I hate that term) but recently the murder rate is not 1 to 2 a year. If I remember reading the newspaper reports correctly there were 35 murders in the State of the Yucatan last year and 12 in the city of Merida. The state averages 40 cases of intentional homicide per year. 2 per 100,000 people. That is not counting traffic fatalities from very aggressive/drunk/sleeping drivers. Compared to other areas of Mexico the murder rate is still very low.

(This post was edited by fishfrier on Sep 19, 2013, 7:55 AM)

YucaLandia

Sep 19, 2013, 8:39 AM

Post #6 of 14 (305 views)

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Re: [fishfrier] Mérida Real Estate II

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The Yucatecan expectations for being very polite do drive some to put on a polite face, and say what is expected, much like traditional people from the South (in the USA) and across Canada. The problem of outsiders connecting with Yucatecans is particularly exacerbated when dealing with mestizos and Maya.

When faced with Yucos wearing their emotional masks, we've found that some ice-breakers go a long way. If you have Yucatecan connections, like family here, then it helps to act like a Southerner (from the US). When Yucatecans and traditional Southerners meet for the first time, they start exploring each other's backgrounds to look for connections. Who are your families? Might your brother have gone to school with my brother? Who are you related to?

Having watched decades of these interactions between traditional Southerners of both the USA and Mexico, you find that they both continue to describe their personal pasts and their families pasts, until some intersection and some connection is found.

This process takes time, and a bit of skill. The time consuming part shows how much they quietly care for other people.

When a stranger who is unaccustomed to these "niceties" comes into either of these traditional Southern cultures (Mexican or US), and blows past the "niceties", they may have irrevocably missed making that key "first impression". This is very similar to what happens when typical Americans and Canadians meet traditional Japanese people. Not showing the expected respect for the other's culture and ways has its costs.

e.g. New Yorkers and other bottom-line folk just aren't accustomed to the process of establishing some trust and establishing a personal relationship before getting down to business. That first impression opportunity never presents itself again, and the outsider is locked for years into the role they adopted in that first meeting. Experience shows it often takes 4-5 years to crack the culture here when one handles the first meetings poorly.

Why talk about these things?
People who consider the real estate market here are well served to know how Yucatecan culture works, when evaluating the future potential of Merida's real estate markets. For these reasons, many many US Southerners find themselves "right at home" in Yucatan - more at ease with their Yucatecan neighbors and their traditional values than they feel with their "Northern" neighbors. Norteños (especially city people) of Mexico, the US, Canada often find themselves a bit out-of-step with the slower traditional Southern ways.

If these premises are true, during the upcoming waves of Boomer retirees, there may be more Southerners and more country people (like Midwesterners and Westerners) staying in Yucatan and buying property than Northerners and city-folk, due to shared cultural sensibilities.

Ways to crack the code?
Realize that the first impression you make not only affects how that individual treats you for the next 3-5 years, but it also rolls out in waves among the other people that the individual knows. Treat that first impression with care. Take the time to get to know them. Don't just dive into what you want.

This means that Yucatan's future potential for Boomer retirees staying here is limited by some of the Boomer's backgrounds. Sophisticated city folk may just not ever feel comfortable in traditional Southern cultures that they fundamentally do not understand. It also points to City-Boomers and less-flexible Boomers segregating themselves into insular communities that have limited interactions with their Yucatecan friends and neighbors. This is already happening in big ways with the Norteños coming here from DF, Monterrey, Puebla, etc. They tend to live in their own enclaves, focusing their socializing on their fellow Norteños... This quality bodes well for people building walled in developments?

Another perspective on how to make the Yucatan real estate market work in your favor: learn some basic Maya language. Since the are as many Maya speakers as Spanish speakers here, learn the Maya greetings/salutations. Even if you are dealing with Maya or Mestizos below the age of 45, (who don't know Maya), they still heard the greetings from their abuelos and abuelitas. Toss in a little Maya as you make that first impression, and Yucatecans smile and remember you for years - as a person with sensitivity to their culture (past and present).

So, "making-it work" in Yucatecan culture, to a point where you can evaluate both the current and the potential real estate markets, can require much more than talking with a realtor or comparing recent property sale prices with other Norteños. When one feels inherently uncomfortable with a culture, it shows how being out-of-step limits current and future opportunities. - which points to Yucatans future growth potential being very different from other parts of Mexico.

Human behavior drives many things, including real estate markets.
Happy Trails,
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

mcm

Sep 19, 2013, 4:17 PM

Post #7 of 14 (280 views)

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Re: [RickS] Mérida Real Estate II

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If anyone is actually interested in information on real estate trends, as observed over the last 17 years, please see my posts in the now-locked Merida Real estate thread.

I THOUGHT that I had presented some pertinent information. I did not question ANYBODY ELSE'S points of view. I certainly did not ask for more ''facts'' from ANYBODY.

NOTE: The Moderator has moved the comments made by poster "mcm" here:

I live just outside of the ring-road around Mérida, in a formerly rural area that is rapidly developing. It's a high value area, and what I observe is that most of the newcomers seem to be from other parts of Mexico. This includes people buying in developments, and small quintas (country homes).
When we arrived in 1996, the per square meter cost of undeveloped land in this area was well under 100 pesos, and not much more for developed land. The per square meter cost of undeveloped land in our area now ranges from 600 to 1000 pesos. But that contrast with the per square meter cost of several thousand pesos (for undeveloped land) in some of the high-value subdivisions WITHIN the ringroad of Mérida.

As Yucalandia points out, the historic center of Mérida attracts foreign expats more than Mexicans, but, as Fishfrier also noted, the focus of ''growth'' in Mérida (for higher end properties) is the north half of the city, and its outskirts. There are LOTS of new developments (including an unprecedented group of 30-story condo buildings currently nearing completion). These are pretty clearly being marketed to Mexicans (especially from DF and Monterrey, where such vertical housing is much more common. Perhaps they will attract some well-heeled snowbirds or permanent expats as well.

Since there are no reliable real estate data bases for this information, though, this is all pretty speculative. That doesn't mean it can't be interesting, but nobody is going to ''win'' this ''argument'', so ......

As an aside to the Mérida real estate discussion, I've long thought that there are inflated estimates of PERMANENT US/Canadian expats in the Mérida area, based on newspaper accounts of numbers given by the local INM, and on the 2010 census figures. It does SEEM as though there is growing interest in coastal properties, though, but that's just an impression.
It'll be interesting to see if there is an increase in expats to Mexico in general, or Mérida in particular. Demographics (eg, retiring baby-boomers) suggest that this would be the case, as Yucalandia points out in detail. But I'm less convinced that the demographic boom will result in the relatively massive migration south of the border, particularly to an area such as Yucatán, which has a year-round climate that many have a hard time adjusting to.

(This post was edited by RickS on Sep 19, 2013, 6:30 PM)

Bennie García

Sep 19, 2013, 5:06 PM

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Re: [mcm] Mérida Real Estate II

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Thank you mcm, for your informative post.

(This post was edited by Bennie García on Sep 19, 2013, 5:08 PM)

geri

Sep 20, 2013, 6:20 AM

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Re: [YucaLandia] Mérida Real Estate II

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What you say Fishfrier is also VERY true of Mexican folk in Oaxaca. When I try to explain it to "some" newcomers, I get a reply, "I can only be myself." If true, you probably will be frustrated living in Oaxaca. Many go back to "where they can be themselves." It's not a matter of changing your basic self/values, etc., just of changing your behavior and attitudes, i.e. to adapt to the different culture in your new country, to show that you are culturally aware. Slow down your pace (generally folks from El Norte expect things to be done much faster), take time to get acquainted, to smell the roses. It will pay off. Besides, it's fun and, I think, healthy.

Even people w ho move to Oaxaca from northern Mexico find that they have to adjust their attitudes and behavior in order to fit in, either business-wise or socially. These are my observations/opinions having lived in Oaxaca for 16 years. Sounds like the same culture/customs exist in Merida also.

Good post.

I also want to add that folks sometimes think when I talk of differences, I'm being critical of life and customs in Oaxaca. Not so. Different doesn't mean good OR bad.

citlali

Sep 20, 2013, 7:53 AM

Post #10 of 14 (217 views)

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Re: [geri] Mérida Real Estate II

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This is also true about small town in France or Chiapas..

Bennie García

Sep 20, 2013, 8:29 AM

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Re: [citlali] Mérida Real Estate II

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Sounds pretty much like many parts of Mexico.

citlali

Sep 20, 2013, 8:35 AM

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Re: [Bennie García] Mérida Real Estate II

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"Pueblo Chico, infierno grande "is probably valid all over the world..

YucaLandia

Sep 20, 2013, 8:50 AM

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Re: [Bennie García] Mérida Real Estate II

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It's nice to see consensus about how we either fit in, or not. Does this reveal more about the person who feels like an outsider, than the broader tendencies across Oaxaca, Chiapas, Yucatan and other parts of Mexico? Some integrate, some don't?

When comparing real estate markets, as affected by differing cultures across Mexico, are the churches full on routine Sundays in other parts of Mexico? If not, the more traditional aspects of current Yucatan may still affect which Boomers find comfortable niches in the Merida area. Integrate or not?: Will Boomers from traditional church-going NOB areas feel more comfortable and find the Merida area more attractive, turning into positive changes in the Merida real estate market ?

e.g. A local restaurant in a Yucatan beach community decided to "import" drag queens and raunchy humor / gay-issue-focused comedians from Merida's small club scene, for several weekend shows, in an attempt to boost business. This was not well received by the locals, and the traditionals (local fishermen) studiously have avoided this restaurant. The overarching/related issues have also split that beach community's Canadian and American groups. Will Yucatan's current traditionalism play a strong role in Boomer visitors, affecting people's future choices whether to return or stay?
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E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Sep 20, 2013, 9:05 AM)

Bennie García

Sep 20, 2013, 9:03 AM

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Re: [citlali] Mérida Real Estate II

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"Pueblo Chico, infierno grande "is probably valid all over the world..

Undoubtedly. Summed up in just 4 words. Proves "less is more" .

(This post was edited by Bennie García on Sep 20, 2013, 9:05 AM)