Forums > Areas > Southern Mexico

Bubba

Mar 28, 2007, 2:47 PM

Post #1 of 9 (2022 views)

Shortcut

Lepers Without Leprosy

Can't Post | Private Reply

One of the great charms of San Cristóbal is the large number of colorfully dressed indigenous people from many surrounding villages who daily come into town to crowd the environs of the indigenous market and the streets in centro especially from the Santo Domingo Convent to the main plaza along the Andador. They come in to trade with each other and the townspeople and travellers as well as they have for centuries. An even more charming component of that mix of Mayan cultures is the large number of really cute and colorfully dressed kids working the streets selling everything from chiclets to all sorts of fabric based products. Of course, there is an element of profound sadness about this but there is an element of profound sadness about a lot of things on this planet and that is not where I´m heading. The kids are invariably polite and, while they may become a bit tiresome as various among them repetitively attempt to sell you the same stale merchandise, they rarely get in your face and become overbearing as, say, kids in Morocco do. Their demeanor is normally self-effacing and quiet and, if ignored, they are usually off within short order.

My wife and I have this sandwich place we like near Santo Domingo (a truly stunning edifice since they restored its extraordinary facade) and enjoy the pleasant courtyard where one dines or enjoys a cold drink. It is common in this open courtyard for one to be unobtrusively approached by these child vendors several times during the course of a meal but they are not an annoyance. It was here we met Teresita, a young Chamulan girl of maybe eleven or so. Teresita really doesn´t know how old she is nor can she actually tell you precisely where she lives. Her mother is dead and she lives with relatives presumably. Maybe she lives with a straw boss. Who knows.

We took a liking over months to Teresita for purely selfish reasons since, while she is ugly as a toad, she has a sparkling personality and an infectuous laugh. Over the months, however, we really had purchased sufficient doodads and geegaws from her and she still visited with us at the cafe which was as much our pleasure as hers.

Of course, Teresita had no shoes. May have never had any shoes in her life. So, my wife decided one day this week to buy her a pair of inexpensive shoes because how else are you going to convert a few measly pesos into the moon so easily. She and Teresita headed down the street in a small city with more shoe stores than Chicago and upon entering the first shoe store they crossed - now I don´t want to overdramatize this event since what happened next defies overdramatization - the two women sales clerks looked at that little girl and my wife as if Quasimodo and The Elephant Man had just strolled in looking for handouts. My wife tells me it was, at first at least, actually funny. Like some really bad 1950s Grade B movie where the Lone Ranger walks into a bar and tries to buy Tonto a drink in front of a bunch of unreconstructed yahoos. It must have been hard to talk to these women whose language would surely have been distorted by their involuntary lip-curling sneers at this idiot foreign white woman with the temerity to walk into their store with this filthy indian urchin. Well, be that as it may, they had to wait on my wife and her companion but had no shoes that fit Teresita so off the two went to the next store and the next where they also found no shoes that fit but plenty of clerks who would have sold them shoes if they would just get the hell out of there. Still they made the rounds leaving clerks´ mouths agape in astonishment and complete disapproval as they left each zapateria and moved on to the next. Finally, they found some shoes that looked as if they would fit and asked the clerk if she could try them on. Yes she could, responded the clerk but only if she put plastic bags on her (rather filthy) feet first which really wasn´t an unreasonable request if a bit crass. Well. those shoes fit so my wife bought them and little Teresita kissed my wife on the cheek as a thank you gesture. Well, you would think my wife had just been kissed by a leper in a time when leprosy was thought to be akin to the Black Death. Nothing was said but, once again, like the old silent movies, the lack of words was compensated for with obviously, even comically, reproving facial gestures.

Little Teresita refused to wear the shoes and carried them from the store in a bag, still bare footed. She didn´t want to ruin them by wearing them. She may never wear them. Who knows.

As they strolled back toward Santo Domingo, Teresita said to my wife, " Those people were mad at us weren´t they?" ( speaking of the first store where the two sales clerks nearly fainted when the two of them walked through the door) . My wife asked why she thought that. "Well, because we didn´t buy anythng, I guess." she responded.

As good a reason as any if you ask me.

When you stop to think about it, people come to San Cristóbal from all over the world to experience Teresita and her colorful and "exotic" Mayan culture along with the splendid Spanish colonial architecture, not to experience the compelling drama unfolding in zapaterias with their dime-a-dozen sales clerks treating her and her countrymen as filthy pariahs. Perhaps if there were no Mayans to look down on, those sales clerks would be gazing down from a lower perch.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 28, 2007, 3:02 PM)

Ed and Fran

Mar 28, 2007, 3:14 PM

Post #2 of 9 (2005 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bubba] Lepers Without Leprosy

Can't Post | Private Reply

Good post, very interesting observations. You're really waxing poetic since this change of venue. Sounds like the climate does you good.

Yes she could, responded the clerk but only if she put plastic bags on her (rather filthy) feet first which really wasn´t an unreasonable request if a bit crass.

Just as an aside, that's a common practice in Mexican shoe stores. Up north it would be normal practice to have a bunch of those anklet hose for women to use. But down here (at least in the shoe stores I've seen), it's plastic bags.

Regards

E&F

Bubba

Mar 28, 2007, 3:24 PM

Post #3 of 9 (2003 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Ed and Fran] Lepers Without Leprosy

Can't Post | Private Reply

As I indicated, Ed, it seemed a reasonable request and my wife took no offense. It´s good to know it´s a common practice and they were not singling out Teresita.

Sometimes a change of scenery is what an old codger needs but let me lay this paradox on you. Since we bought the house in Chiapas but plan to live at Lake Chapala part of the year as well, we now like Ajijic much more than we used to. I don´t get it.

wendy devlin

Mar 28, 2007, 4:30 PM

Post #4 of 9 (1996 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bubba] Lepers Without Leprosy

Can't Post | Private Reply

Never know quite what to think about your opinions.
(however that's probably how you like it:)

Many years ago, we used to have great heated arguments here on Mexconnect whether racism existed in Mexico or not.

Methinks, that perhaps racism is close to the human bone.

Maybe alive and well in most(every?) society, in varying degrees, at varying times. THe anthropologists that lurk among us, may add to this subject.

Still remember the blueish (symptoms of cyanosis?) feet of the Mayan people, met when sharing the community water tap, that serviced both the campground and the local (outskirt) indigenous community, our one visit to San Cristobol, circa 1993. No shoes. Also the hospital waste, sharps etc. dumped near same spot.

During winter in San Cristobol, if bare-footed, you're going to get very, very cold feet.

that particular observation and again the day several years later, I embraced an indigenous beach vendor "amiga" for several years, from Guerrero(a head clanswoman for her people, somewhat displaced to another part of Mexico) in front of our other dearly beloved Mexican friends ( indigent to Jalisco)

The shock*horror* on our friend's faces was enough to say, I had made a rather serious, social *boo-boo*. After my indigenous friend left, to ply her stone jewelry trade down the beach(she was 'licensed vendora) our other friends plied me with questions as to 'how' I knew this woman. They seemed alarmed and worried about my friendship.

Never-the-less, these same friends were great introducers and explainers of the 'way, things are in Mexico". As a Canadian, and given life-experiences and convictions, I was in much need of 'learning' in a class-constructed society.

However, in my opinion, we become who we are....before the age of 3 or 4.

Not much of success, of changing a person's attitudes after that. Although still try to consider thoughtful, constructive criticism and know full well that how I think, feel, respond can be much different from others.

Learned that perhaps the social yard-stick, by which a person may be measured in Mexico, might be different from elsewhere. Although will maintain that both decent folks and dirt-bags are everywhere.

And consider the social consequences of actions, wherever.

That's perhaps is the omnipresent, 'ouch' factor:)

(This post was edited by wendy devlin on Mar 28, 2007, 7:27 PM)

Bubba

Mar 29, 2007, 7:50 AM

Post #5 of 9 (1957 views)

Shortcut

Re: [wendy devlin] Lepers Without Leprosy

Can't Post | Private Reply

Wendy writes:

Never know quite what to think about your opinions.
(however that's probably how you like it:)

Many years ago, we used to have great heated arguments here on Mexconnect whether racism existed in Mexico or not.

Methinks, that perhaps racism is close to the human bone.

Wendy:

I guess my story about my wife shopping for shoes was more about the human comedy than a speculation as to the existence or extent of racism. Racism is as you say, close to the bone or, perhaps, in the marrow and is both a positive* and negative influence over all human beings with any cognitive ability. I subscribe to the belief that we should abide by the Golden Rule no matter our internal conflicts on this issue.

The Mayans are no less racist than the Mestizos or the "Catalans". After all, their name for themselves (not having consulted with the Huichols on the matter) is "The Original People" and others with whom they come in contact are assigned lesser status on the planet in degrees.

My wife was not out to violate some community protocol but had the simple intent to buy shoes for a friend. The stores in which she was shopping cater to indigenous people with cheap plastic shoes for the most part. It sort of reminds me of the quandary faced by a white shoe clerk in my native Alabama in the 50s who found it necessary to wait on black clients and simultaneously maintain some personal dignity requiring his performance of certain subtle and sometimes not so subtle interpersonal rituals intended to keep the black client in his place while simultaneously selling the shoes. Of course, there, the black client would have been relegated to a separate waiting room and would have been compelled to buy shoes tried on as those shoes could no longer be sold to white folks after having been worn by a black person even briefly.

As one whose antecedents were slave owners and, later, supporters of state institutionalized racism, I don´t pretend to be better than anybody. My great uncles proudly marched down Commerce Steet in my home town in Ku Klux Klan parades in the 1930s hooded and in their finest Klan robes when that was a recurring event and the Klan was considered on a par with other civic organizations such as the Kiwanis. My Great Uncle Eli was famous in his splendid Kluxer robe for his huge shiny black brogans since he had famously big feet. Local whites who attended these parades as spectators had a game of trying to figure out who was whom under those hoods and robes by their shoes or stature.

All of those people were among the finest I ever knew. God fearing salt of the earth. Intelligent, highly successful business people and always compassionate to people of all races within the context of the society in which they were raised and functioned.

I guess that is what they mean by the banality of evil.

* I say the racism is a positive influence in people who think in that ethnocentrism serves to protect people in a tribal sense and also serves to foster ambitious public works, unfortunately, often at the expense of others within other ethnic communities sharing the planet but that´s another subject.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 29, 2007, 8:11 AM)

wendy devlin

Mar 29, 2007, 3:41 PM

Post #6 of 9 (1923 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bubba] Lepers Without Leprosy

Can't Post | Private Reply

Actually Bubba, appreciate your efforts bringing such issues to the attention of this forum

Although hesitate to make much commentary about Chiapas/indigenous/racism, as have little on-ground experience there. Racism however, by its nature, perhaps, has common effects, wherever a person might live.

However, since our ranchito in Canada nearly borders on the back of a West Coast First Nation, the local elementary school is one where, our kids had a choice of Coast Salish or French by grade 3, biculturally events are common and our oldest son is often picked up by the Native soccer team for out-of-town tournaments, etc. racism is never far from our experience or minds.

Wish could say, that with all the money, programs etc. directed, at elimination of racism, that it didn't still exist. However it does. So people still have to come to terms with racism in everyday life...hence my close to the bone comment.

There's currently airing on public TV, a program where a woman who has dedicated her life to raising awareness about racism, holds a seminar with approx. equal numbers of Caucasian and indigenous participants.

She divides them into two groups, the blue eyes(symbolizing Caucasians) and the brown. (indigenous) She then proceeds to question and treat the blue eyed 'tribe' with all manner of common statements, prejudices etc. that people (like Mexicans for example)subjected to racism would routinely experience.

People who never imagined they were racist, in any way, shape or form, when the shoe is on the other foot, find the experience very difficult or give energentic denial to how they are perceived by the 'other'.

An interesting social experiment and documentary. Seemed to suggest an insidious nature to racism. How we can be racist, in various degrees and not even be aware we are.

jerezano

Apr 1, 2007, 9:06 AM

Post #7 of 9 (1874 views)

Shortcut

Re: [wendy devlin] Lepers Without Leprosy

Can't Post | Private Reply

Hello,

wendydevlin asked:>> How we can be racist, in various degrees and not even be aware we are.<<

A very interesting question. But I think a bit off the target. A person should know him/herself well enough to know whether they have racist opinions or not. Recognizing and acknowledging differences is not racism. Racism is either there or not there. Let me explain a bit:

First of all in any society of human beings there are alway groups of "us'ns" and other groups of "thems". This is natural to human beings as well as many other animals. It starts as a nuclear family with the "thems" being all others. It expands to the extended family with the thems being all others. It expands further to your particular clan with the thems, etc..... It becomes tribes then areas, then nations and becomes more sophisticated with the development of civilazations.

This is all natural. There is no "racism" involved in this natural sociological concept. The "racism" enters when the concept becomes distorted.

We always recognize thems. They are different from ourselves. I disagree with wendydevlin in that by the age of 3 or 4 we recognize our "us'ns" and the "thems". We develop this recognition over the years with probably the teen-ages being the time when we are injected most strongly with these differences.

We will always recognize differences. It is natural. But what we do about those differences is where the ugly nature of racism rears its ugly head.

We need to recognize differences because if we don't we may inadvertently trespass on or injure our friendly thems. They need to do the same.

Do we automatically assume that all "thems" are despicable people or enemies? That is racism to the extreme.

Adiós. jerezano.

(This post was edited by jerezano on Apr 1, 2007, 9:30 AM)

Bloviator

Apr 1, 2007, 10:23 AM

Post #8 of 9 (1866 views)

Shortcut

Re: [wendy devlin] Lepers Without Leprosy

Can't Post | Private Reply

An interesting take on the lack of racism in Mexico from: The Mexicans A Personal Portrait of a People, by Patrick Oster.

"Despite all the importance given skin color, Mexicans bristle if you suggest that racism exists in their country. Denials come forth even in the face of irrefutable evidence. One of the most popular comic books in Mexico is Memin Pinguin, the name of a little boy who looks like Little Black Sambo and whose mother is the spitting image of Aunt Jemima. The title character is the butt of unending jokes about his stupidity. When I once asked the publisher of Memin Pinguin if he had ver tried to sell the comic to Mexican-
Americans in the United States, he replied that it wasn't feasible. 'people would say it was racist.' he said. ' But we have no racism in Mexico, so we can do it here.'"

Having worked in Watts, Compton, South Central LA, and other garden spots in SoCal among black and Hispanics, I can attest to the presence of serious racial conflict in these areas. This is, of course, accerbated by the constant change in racial composition in those areas, the displacement of Blacks from their traitional communities, their displacement in the workforce by low paid - usually illegal immigrant Hispanics - and the general social change throughout the areas where Hispanics live today.

The Blacks, of course, resent their displacement and the Hispanics resent the gang warfare as well as the sense of entitlement that the Blacks exhibit. How much is really racism and how much is just natural unhappiness over social and economic change is subject to a lot of interpretation.

wendy devlin

Apr 1, 2007, 3:07 PM

Post #9 of 9 (1844 views)

Shortcut

Re: [dlyman6500] Lepers Without Leprosy

Can't Post | Private Reply

Last year(?) there was a media storm, U.S. side, regarding a stamp featuring Memin Pinguin. The furor that the stamp created, made the news on both sides of the border for some time, although viewed from quite different points of view.

Many people on these boards would have way more experience with this topic then myself, generally a country-mouse in back-woods Canada for these past 35 years. Living in towns with pop. less than 15,000 and several less than 300.

DITTO for Mexican experience in similiar size pueblos y el campo.

Have difficulty distinguishing 'racism', from 'prejudice' or perhaps 'classism".
Hatred or prejudice against other people, just kinda blurs in my mind as the same kind of experiences.

And understand that people naturally classify each other along, "us" and "them" lines and have done so since time immemorial. And like jerenzo suggests, and describes, such classifications serves a purpose. Have no big issue with that as people are different from each other, and societies form themselves along quite different sets of rules and views etc. And establish their own yard-sticks on how to measure each other within those societies.

Now, at risk of simplifying a great number of experiences while talking with people who know nothing of our life...or us, theirs:) Continue the topic...

Up until the years, our three children became teenagers, tended to think I could spot racism, as coming across situations in life. However, didn't realize until those years, how selectively 'racist', people could be. For instance, here in our pueblo, at the local school, great efforts have been made at social integration.

To be native was cool.
So was being black.(maybe two kids in the school of 120) Circa 1998

Our family began exploring Mexico intensively when the three kids were 5, 7 and 9. We had many great times and got to know many Mexicans.

When our daughter who had been around Mexicans many years, turned twelve and went to middle-school, I got a call that she was fighting on the playground in our Canadian hometown.

The issue.

Kids were putting down Mexicans. Dirty, lazy. whatever.
None of those kids had ever been to Mexico or met any Mexicans.
It didn't stop them from 'trash-talking' Mexicans.

Pint-sized daughter duking it out for her friends in Mexico, 5000 miles away.

(This post was edited by wendy devlin on Apr 1, 2007, 5:16 PM)