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esperanza

Dec 18, 2006, 12:55 PM

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Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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Mr. and Mrs. Bubba asked me to post this for everyone:

These ladies are from the town of Tehuantepec, Oaxaca. The woman on the right (white frilly apron) is wearing a transparent pink skirt.

As Bubba says, do not mess with these ladies. They are stronger than you are.

Mrs. Bubba took the photo; she said she was glad the palm tree was between her and the tough Tehuantepec ladies.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on Dec 18, 2006, 12:57 PM)

sfmacaws

Dec 20, 2006, 11:28 PM

Post #2 of 15 (5042 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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I love a woman in pink! ¡Qué macha! ¿Eh? They are truly marvelous, Frida loved them perhaps because they had the physical strength she didn't but also because they had the independence she appreciated. Frankly though, that whole area they live in is a hellhole no matter what Bubba says now that he is the premier tourism director for all of southern Mexico... unless of course heat, humidity and howling winds are your idea of a vacation spot but if that were true it is a lot easier to get to west Texas and some of those Texas women could stand right up to a Tehuana.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

Bubba

Dec 21, 2006, 6:37 AM

Post #3 of 15 (5030 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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Frankly though, that whole area they live in is a hellhole no matter what Bubba says now that he is the premier tourism director for all of southern Mexico... unless of course heat, humidity and howling winds are your idea of a vacation spot but if that were true it is a lot easier to get to west Texas and some of those Texas women could stand right up to a Tehuana.

Well, the climate is a bit difficult but at this time of year it is windy (and, I shouldn´t admit this but "windy" is one of my favorite states of being) and comfortable. I would avoid the area in the summer except perhaps for the local festival which I think is in July..

Don´t forget that I grew up on Mobile Bay which has among the most hellish summer climates on the planet. After 30 plus years in cool San Francisco, we cannot return to that heat and humidity but a winter trip to the Isthmus of Tehuantepec is worthwhile.

Don´t be hurting my feelings about who is premier tourism director - I know you and Mimi are much more well traveled than are we. I must admit I was pleased to try to move the Southern Mexico Forum into positive territory after weeks of negative postings on Oaxaca which was and is taking a bum rap.

sfmacaws

Dec 21, 2006, 9:13 AM

Post #4 of 15 (5014 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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No, truly, I think you have done a great job of revitalizing this forum and I like it.

Since we travel in a vehicle that is a lot taller than a car, I am not fond of the winds in the isthmus. There are too many 18 wheelers on their sides along the road to make me comfortable, plus I never trust an area where the name of all the towns includes some form of wind. Outside of a stop to see the markets and las señoras de Tehuantepec, I try to just get through the area safely and get gone as soon as possible. I don't think it has much else to recommend it.

Then again, I'm not a big fan of Oaxaca, state or city. Like other cities that are much loved by some, Guanajuato comes to mind, it has not tripped my trigger on repeated visits. I've had a good time there but I have never felt it to be very welcoming or to have anything very attractive besides shopping. As for shopping, I've gotten better prices on Oaxaca rugs from traveling Oaxacans in Akumal and Ajijic than I did in their home town of Teotitlan del Valle. On other things though, it is really a premier shopping destination. I just don't get to shop much anymore, no where to put the stuff. Don't misunderstand me, I think it is a worthwhile destination for anyone at least once, I just couldn't imagine spending a lot of time there.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

geri

Dec 21, 2006, 11:09 AM

Post #5 of 15 (4999 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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The women from Tehuantepec are certainly interesting. I have a friend here in Oaxaca who is from the Isthmus. She said there is a day (in summer I think) when the men march along the streets and women throw vegetables at them from the balconies. As I understand it, women are sort of (how do I say this?) the stronger sex and the men, apparently, like it that way. My friend is a strong professional woman and she has a lover here in Oaxaca who is a poet. It's a hoot hanging out with them. I think she likes me as a friend because she doesn't "fit in" with the traditional Mexican families here in Oaxaca City and she senses that I accept her. I think the Mexicans sort of think all us gringas/gringos (oops, am I not allowed to use those words on this forum?) all us extranjeros are half a bubble off anyway...and we are. The problem with the word extranjeros is that it is used by Mexicans in Oaxaca to refer to anyone not from Oaxaca. That was confusing in some press stories that said "extranjeros" were aiding the protestors. Most of them were from Chiapas or Mexico City, not the USA or Canada.

Bubba

Dec 21, 2006, 12:34 PM

Post #6 of 15 (4985 views)

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Re: [geri] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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Thanks to women in Juchitan I was treated very quickly and nicely in a closed clinic. When we got to the clinic on Sunday night, it was closed and the doctor could not be found. Soon after that a mother came in with her little girl and eight of her relatives, there was no question wether the Doctor was going to show-up or not, he just did. By the time the doctor came in the father of the girl had disappeared but more female relatives were there and I knew we would be receiving good treatment.
Business and handling of the money is considered a woman thing so the men very wisely turn the money over to the women . Smart men...
By the way if you ever need a doctor while down there do not hesitate to go and see him.
Dr Calvo Lopez
16 de Septiembre ·11-A Tercera Seccion Centro
70000 Juchitan, Oaxaca
971 71 11569

(This post was edited by Bubba on Dec 21, 2006, 12:39 PM)

geri

Dec 21, 2006, 12:43 PM

Post #7 of 15 (4979 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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Yes, this is what I heard. Money is in the women's pockets in Teh. A quite different part of Mexico.

You mentioned all the family being at the clinic. Whenever I go to a doctor, usually in the evening 'cause that's when they have office hours, there's a horde of people in the waiting room, but the receptionist tells me, "no hay problema," I can see the doctor in a short while. So I set about "guessing" who is the patient and who are the family members, among the 20 or so people in the waiting room. Same in lines at the bank. The lines are really only half as long as most are t here as a couple (at least). Doing something "alone" in southern Mexico just isn't a concept. They think we are very strange to live alone and travel alone. That is the question I'm asked the most, "Esta sola?" It's just hard for them to comprehend.

I have to admit I really like the "no appt. necessary" aspect of medical care here and so far I've lucked out with good, competent doctors and dentists.

caldwelld

Dec 22, 2006, 9:00 AM

Post #8 of 15 (4940 views)

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Re: [geri] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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Interesting comment about who holds the money in southern Mx. My impression is that all over Mx the women hold the money although the men may not admit it. Whether that is right or wrong (my impression or the idea) I will leave to Bubba to discuss.
dondon

geri

Dec 22, 2006, 11:20 AM

Post #9 of 15 (4924 views)

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Re: [caldwelld] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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Come to think of it, most of the tiendas in the markets in Oaxaca are staffed by women. The exceptions are the tool areas and some of the more expensive/well-stocked dress stalls and tapetes. Women and children are the ones selling tamales, fruit, etc. on the streets. So, who knows how much money they make or if their husbands are employed? Many of the men may well be working the fields in their villages.

I read once that one of the problems with estimating GNP (gross national product) in places such as rural Oaxaca is that they are still very much on the bartering system. For instance, they may trade eggs and a rooster for a pig. No money (to count) changes hands. When they say that Oaxaca is the poorest state (given the number of people) they are "estimating" GNP. In Chiapas people are poorer, I'm told, but there's not as many of them. Anyway, Oaxaca and Chiapas uncontested are the "poorest" states in Mexico. But people in the remote pueblos don't have car insurance or mortgages. They have chickens, fruit trees, maybe a cow or two or a field of agave for mescal. I'm not saying they aren't poor, but they are poor in a different sense that people crowded into low income housing in the USA.

Some may argue with me, but in my 10 years observation in Oaxaca, sanitation and access to health facilites has improved. Far from perfect, for sure, but there has been and continues to be lots of education re drinking pure water, getting rabies shots for animals, even birth control, etc. More important to the rural poor is autonomy, the ability to continue with their traditional fiestas, have their own means of governance, etc. That may be why APPO has been unable to rally the rural poor. The recent protests in Oaxaca are "middle class," revolting against corruption of Los Politicos. That includes the teachers. Although, by El Norte standards, these are poor people, in Oaxaca they are middle class. They want more of the pie. IF and that's a big IF the rural poor in Oaxaca DID revolt, then there would be REAL news to report. So far, APPO has been unable to rally them. Even the Zapotistas have been unable to make inroads into Oaxaca's rural poor. I'm talking about people who live more than an hour by bus from Oaxaca.

Did I bring up too many issues in one post?

caldwelld

Dec 23, 2006, 10:16 AM

Post #10 of 15 (4894 views)

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Re: [geri] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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Lots of issues but few answers. Who holds the purse strings in complete families in macho Mexico?
dondon

Bubba

Dec 23, 2006, 12:57 PM

Post #11 of 15 (4877 views)

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Re: [caldwelld] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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In many cultures where women are repressed, submissive etc... the women manage to manipulate the men and run the show behind close door so it is not surprising that many women hold the purse strings officialy or not in any country.
I was raised in a traditional Latin culture where married men have mistresses and my grand-mother taught me that after getting married I had to control the purse strings. She used to tell me that men without money are not nearly as attractive as they think they are and cannot run very far( especially after 50).
However the major difference in the culture between the Isthmus and the rest of the Zapotec culture is that the culture of the Isthmus is a matriarchal culture, the rest of the Zapotec have a patriarchal culture.
The difference in the way the women behave between the Isthmus and the Central Valley is striking. The women of the Isthmus are very assertive and full of self confidence, the way they dress, the way they parade down the street the way they behave does not leave you with any doubt about the importance of women down there. The women from the Valley walk and dance with their eyes to the ground not so in Tehuantepec. It is common down there to see the matriarch walking proudly, dressed to kill with all the other family women in tow, they are just a great sight.

sfmacaws

Dec 23, 2006, 1:04 PM

Post #12 of 15 (4873 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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Great description Brigitte. I have a friend who spent a lot of time in Oaxaca as a youth, he was raised in Puebla. He tells of being 15 and being in the market and how the Tehuanas would stare at him and make lewd comments toward him and about his anatomy. He describes being so embarrassed that he would cover his crotch with his hands. I love the story as it is what is so often done to young girls in the rest of Mexico.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

jacpowell

Dec 23, 2006, 2:36 PM

Post #13 of 15 (4865 views)

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Re: [geri] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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But who owns the land? In many cultures, lineage is matrilineal (you ALWAYS know who the mother is....) and property ownership rests with the women. The men take care of the "important" issues like religion and war. The women take care of survival. However, the women in many of these groups - especially in the Southwestern US - are not quite as "Amazonish" about their power, but are quite meek from outward appearances. Could the Tehuantepec folks be from a formerly matrilineal society?

bfwpdx

Dec 23, 2006, 4:54 PM

Post #14 of 15 (4849 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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Two books on this area that I would like to recommend are:

Beverley Newbold Chinas, La Zanduunga: of fieldwork and friendship in southern Mexico. Waveland Press. 1993.

Frank J. Lipp, The Mixe of Oaxaca: Religion, ritual and healing. University of Texas, Austin. 1991.

I think you will find many of the points of interest raised here are covered in these texts.

arbon

Dec 23, 2006, 5:56 PM

Post #15 of 15 (4837 views)

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Re: [caldwelld] Las Señoras de Tehuantepec

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"Who holds the purse strings in complete families in macho Mexico?"

In the South.............

Who has a purse?

Who makes the tortillas?

Who does the laundry?

Who does the cooking?

Who makes and mends the cloths?

Who has and looks after the children?
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