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hopalog

Apr 6, 2007, 7:34 PM

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Exposing my naivete

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In 2004 we cashed out of the Bay ARea real estate market and rat race and hit the road. We initially intended to vacation in Baja for a few months and then find a new place to live. Three years later we're still on the road with no home base; we winter all over Mexico and summer above 5000ft in the US. We love the culture exchange for ourselves and our children and mixing with travelling Mexican families. I personally, LOVE the history; from Olmec to the Pioneers on the Santa Fe trail from Zacatecas to Kansas (Council Grove, to be specific). My 10 year old, however, very much wants to settle down. I suspect that after 6 months in a stick house, he'll miss the road, but I could be wrong. All the others really like traveling but would also be happy in a stick house. So, I guess we're finally looking for a place to settle down. Right now we're living off investments and my work. I work anywhere; on the road but I might be out of a job by the end of the year or maybe not; depends on how the company does this year. I've been in the computer industry since 1979 and frankly, I'm so OVER it. I'd be more than happy to go back to school and get a nursing degree instead of continuing to work in the computer industry. I've wanted to get out forEVER.

So, we're thinking of a colonial redo in Merida and maybe a palapa in PaaMul (can't get away from those turquoise seas) while I spend 3-4 years in school in the US. Once with degree in hand, I'd work 6 months of the year and spend the other six in Mexico. We wouldn't really be able to use any property we purchase in Mexico unless I continued to work in the computer industry (and travel) or for four years. And honestly, I'm very DONE with this industry and ready to move on to the next. Nursing really resonates with me; especially travel nursing and the ability to live frugally for 6mo and live in Mexico the other 6.

But the Merida real estate market seems to be bounding and I'd really want to get in now rather than later. Jamie and I have a real love for old buildings and the colonial ruins in Merida have us bleeping in our bleeps.

Assuming we can afford this, and I'm fairly confident we can swing a colonial in Merida and maybe a palapa in PaaMul (but I'm most interested in the Merida advice) and if the sky falls in we can always sell it, does this sound reasonable to *you*? It feels like a good investment choice and even if it isn't, we would definitely use it after nursing school. We could hopefully rent it in the meanwhile or simply take our time in the renovation.

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Bubba

Apr 7, 2007, 8:19 AM

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Re: [hopalog] Exposing my naivete

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So, we're thinking of a colonial redo in Merida and maybe a palapa in PaaMul (can't get away from those turquoise seas) while I spend 3-4 years in school in the US.

hopalog:

I too love those astonishingly beautiful turquoise seas but, as the French say, you can´t eat beauty in a salad and I never figured out how to earn the salad and live on the turquoise sea simultaneously.

It sounds to me as though you have reached a point in your career that we reached in the 1980s and this restlessness seems to come along sometime in one´s 30s or early 40s. My wife and I quit our jobs in banking and the wine business, sold our house in Northern California, put everything in storage and hit the road with our boxer and some clothes and kitchen utensils from WalMart. We were torn between driving back to Mobile to squander my inheritance opening a wine store or heading for the Atlantic coast of France at Arcachon to join my wife´s friends in the oyster business. We really gave little thought to the rationality of risking everything we had on a retail wine and gourmet food store in a city where Carlo Rossi was king and gourmet food was chocolate covered ants or trying to make a living oystering on the Altantic coast of France in the freezing dead of winter.

By the time we got to Mobile and became re-acquainted with the steamy climate and mind boggling insularity of the place, we had had time to reflect upon squandering our money in a town in which we would never belong or shuffling about on the muddy floor of the Bay of Arcachon at low tide in sub-zero weather so we headed for Taos, New Mexico instead where we lived for a few months pondering our future.

It turns out that bankers in places such as Taos and Santa Fe like to hire locals and I didn´t stand a chance so we ended up back in California living on beautiful Monterey Bay as our consolation prize. We didn´t leave California again until we retired many years later.

I´m only boring you with this story because I think we were restless and looking for a change in those days just as you are now. We found, in our case, that it´s hard to start a new career in one´s mid-30s so, as much as I despised banking, that is the industry that valued my experience and there I was in Santa Cruz banking away once again. Well, at least, I still had my inheritance which I surely would have left in Mobile or France with just enough money to get back to California which, as it turned out, is where I belonged at that stage of my life.

Surely, many people go through this mid-life desire for change. Maybe you have what it takes. We didn´t. So, instead of squandering my inheritance on a retail store in a depressed burg or cleaning oyster bins in sub-zero weather in the mud, we used that money to buy a house in Santa Cruz and rode that California real estate boom right up to the year 2000 when the consequent real estate equity I had accumulated provided me with the opportunity to tell my boss to go to hell and head for Mexico.

As for buying in Merida, we don´t live there but spent a lot of time there two years ago looking at houses in centro and some more affluent neighborhoods because, despite the city´s atrocious climate, we have loved that place since our first visit back in the 1980s. After much searching about town, we decided that we would only buy in the historic center but found, as we looked at house after house, that there seemed to be a huge speculative bubble in centro real estate prices as Merida families sold off rundown colonial homes they had inherited and could not have given away ten years before. These homes, which were usually in great disrepair, were being sold primarily to foreigners at exhorbitant prices and the prices were even more outrageous for homes that had been refurbished prior to coming on the market. It also seemed to us that the historic center of Merida was in danger of becoming a foriegn enclave with locals only coming into the center for festivities or cultural events.

We bowed out of Merida as a permanent home base and settled on San Cristóbal instead since we were determined to make Southern Mexico our home base. San Cristóbal also gave us a home base between Oaxaca at the Yucatan so, in the future, we can reach our favorite Mexican places in short order. We will be spending much quality time in both Merida and Oaxaca City without living permanently in either place.

It´s hard to predict the future trend in housing costs in Merida so maybe it´s best to buy now. Our friend Jonn (SFMACAWS) just bought there and seems ecstatic with her purchase. That speculative bubble is already there however and you may just have to live with that. It´s also happening now in San Cristóbal but we got in under the wire there as far as buying in the historic center is concerned.

Good luck to you.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Apr 7, 2007, 8:44 AM)

hopalog

Apr 7, 2007, 8:34 AM

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Re: [Bubba] Exposing my naivete

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I've been feeling this way about my work since, um, at least 1999 and probably more like 1997. But we can use 1999. Each and every day I HATE what I do. I hate the soul sucking dance I do for my clients and, well, honestly, it isn't restlessness. Unless restlessness can last for so many years, through 2 births and many life changes; the constant has been that I hate my golden handcuffs. One part I left out is that I totally FELL into the industry; I'm one of the few without a degree but was in the industry before PC's existed. I've always felt a calling to some type of service industry, some kind of "giving back" and nursing seems to fill that need, allow for travel and unless all the boomers (I'm on the cusp, so I'm talking about myself too, I guess) die off like the dinosaurs, or the Mayans (hmmmmm.....) provide a long healthy prospect for employment. Hopefully, getting in before the great demand will position me with fresh schooling and good experience.

I think we might fall just in love with San Cristobol as Merida, but the cold winters frighten me. But we'll see; Oaxaca and San Cristobol are next on our list. :) You've been warned.

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Bubba

Apr 7, 2007, 9:28 AM

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Re: [hopalog] Exposing my naivete

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One part I left out is that I totally FELL into the industry

think we might fall just in love with San Cristobol as Merida, but the cold winters frighten me. But we'll see; Oaxaca and San Cristobol are next on our list. :) You've been warned

Just like I FELL into banking because the chairman of the federal regulatory agency I first went to work for in 1966 and my father were frat brothers at Alabama in the 30s and getting a job with that agency was easy. I also thought in those days that "banker´s hours" of 10:00AM to 3:00'PM was an appealing feature. I was foolish on both counts.

Believe it or not, the winters are the best season in San Cristóbal and in tropical Tuxtla Gutierrez as well with crystal clear and fresh days in the 60s and 70s and cold, bracing nights . We will probably spend our winters in San Cristóbal (low season) and our summers in Ajijic (Lake Chapala low season) as those are the best seasons in each place respectively. Until just now that was our little secret.

You are always welcome in San Cristóbal so be sure to let us know when you are coming.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Apr 7, 2007, 9:29 AM)

wendy devlin

Apr 7, 2007, 2:44 PM

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Re: [hopalog] Exposing my naivete

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Feeling quite a resonance with your situation, given our circumstances in 1991, when hubby and myself left our respective jobs, sold our small farm and took our three young children on the road for the better part of two years. Half of that time around Mexico, RVing.

Everybody's circumstances are different however. One size does not fit= all:)

What happened in hindsight ,that was one of the unknowns, is that the competitiveness of job market often involves being 'in' or 'out'.

Once 'out' for a few years, in say, your forties or fifties, potential employers may regard you as a prospective employee, even with impecceable credentials or experience, with considerable suspicion. Especially if you are in your 40's and 50's as was our situation in our particular fields of emergency nursing and mechanical engineering.

It might be prudent, if you do get nursing qualifications, that you have a fairly clear idea of where and how you're wish to head. And the specifics that will effect what social situations, and everything else that might be involved in the future.

As for the stick house; can relate:)

The children's desire to be centered somewhere was what ultimately led to how and where we live today. You may find it different, but once children reach the early teenage years, they are less wanting to be towed around by their adventurous parents. Wanting to set down roots and begin preparing for their future independence, (wings)

However if you are still in a position for them to send some time annually in Mexico, they will continue to grow interculturally. Perhaps continue to make a life/connections with an international component., as in text messaging (MSN) their Mexican friends, as though, they were still seeing them every day:)

You may find, that kids start thinking in terms of their *home* life and their *other* virtual life which, thanks to the internet, can be just about anywhere.

And the inter-change/play between the two.

Keeping in mind, the social realities that young people face today, that didn't necessarily face you or your husband when you were children or teen-agers.

Also the above was written by a fiscal conservative.

Who hasn't taken advantage of the real estate boom, 'wherever' because every piece of property bought and house owner-built has been with the intention, of living there indefinitely.

Which is also why, 'farming' is still part of the daily equation.

Plus the three Easter farm tours in the past three days, by various groups of young children in the community.

Feliz Pascua!

(This post was edited by wendy devlin on Apr 7, 2007, 2:45 PM)

waltw

Apr 7, 2007, 5:55 PM

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Re: [hopalog] Exposing my naivete

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"I'd work 6 months of the year and spend the other six in Mexico."

*********************************************************************
Hopalog,

I am certainly with you in spirit. I've sometimes thought about how it would be to live six months in Mexico and work the remaining six in the US, and how viable this lifestyle might be for extranjeros of average economic means. Some interesting responses from people doing this listed below:

http://www.mexconnected.com/...forum.cgi?post=85395

I'm curious how you would handle that lifestyle with kids. I'm assuming the only way would be with home schooling - which, I assume, would be somewhat a fulltime job in itself.

Also, you mentioned buying a house in Merida but then going back to the US and getting a degree for 3-4 years. What would you do with the house in Merida while you're in the US?

I pose these questions not to cast doubt on your plans, but because we're asking some of the same questions of ourselves. (e.g. - the logic of buying real estate in Mexico, but possibly returning for a time to the US).

belgique

Apr 8, 2007, 7:03 AM

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Re: [hopalog] Exposing my naivete

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Hopalog/Harvestmoon: very interesting thread as are the thoughtful responses, so far. Having followed the travel's of you guys over the past years on the RV forum, will be anxious to see how this plays out since we are deciding where to establish our final roots...as I am in the twilight of an otherwise lackluster career, that aspect is decided :-).

belgique

Apr 8, 2007, 3:05 PM

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Re: [belgique] Exposing my naivete

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Quite a coincidence: Rick Bayless' show today was all about Merida and the cuisine. Really looks fantastic!

hopalog

Apr 8, 2007, 6:43 PM

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Re: [hopalog] Exposing my naivete

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Thank you all SO VERY MUCH for your wonderful responses; I'll read them all later. We've been tracking down a 110v electrical problem in the trailer all day, no A/C and are finally back with 110v. What a very long day! I'll get back to this tomorrow, but now need to give some attention to the poor kids who've been ignored all day.

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jerezano

Apr 9, 2007, 8:24 PM

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Re: [waltw] Exposing my naivete

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Hello:

waltw asked:>>
Also, you mentioned buying a house in Merida but then going back to the US and getting a degree for 3-4 years. What would you do with the house in Merida while you're in the US?<<<

No problem at all. You just leave the house vacant. At least that is what is done here in the sticks in Zacatecas. Some of those houses have been vacant for more than 20 years.

Remember houses here in Mexico are not made of wood, but usually stone, brick, or block with plaster coatings. They are also usually equipped with rejas (iron gratings over windows and doors or the doors are metal). Sometimes completely walled by two to 3 or 9 meter walls. Etc. Turning off the water and the electricity and walking out but paying the annual tax is a completely viable option. Leaving your telephone number and address with a friend or neighbor who can report any disaster (temblor, etc.) is all that is needed.

I have often asked people returning from the USA about why they didn't rent their properties while gone. The usual reply "it's full of furniture and possesions which renters would destroy."

Adiós. jerezano

yucatandreamer

Apr 9, 2007, 9:33 PM

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Re: [jerezano] Exposing my naivete

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Here in Merida's climate a lived-in house deteriorates quickly, an empty house falls apart even faster. This may not be as true in new construction, but in the old centro homes ground water wicks up through the walls. The heat, dust and additional humidity do the rest. Furniture molds quickly even with regular cleaning and care. I would never recommend just locking your house and walking away for any length of time. People either have friends who check in, keep fans going and hire caretakers to clean and air out these old homes. Ants will take up residence and eat the insulation around your electrical wiring. There are termites, wood worms and just about any other city vermin you can name. I heard of one person who built a wood staircase only to return a year later to find it mostly sawdust, termites ate two outdoor chairs right under my nose and my plaster is falling off my walls as I write. Homes need air movement and that means electricity. If I were to leave a home for any length of time, I would not furnish it except with plastic and would not put much money into it until I intended to live in it regularly.

wendy devlin

Apr 10, 2007, 7:44 AM

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Re: [yucatandreamer] Exposing my naivete

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The two posts above highlight possible consequences of leaving a house vacant in one climatic zone compared to another. Dramatic differences. Seen both.

Talk extensively with people who are living where and how you might like to live.
People who have lived in that place for a long time.

Also talk with people with experience about being an absentee landlord as a way around leaving a house vacant.

Might get an earful on the negatives about that option. There could be positives but you might have to set situations up carefully, given prior consideration to possibilities. And even then, situations do not necessarily last for ever.

And other physical details that cause deterioration as mentioned by yucatandreamer.

In a tropical zone, you may need to chose the type of wood carefully(some varieties are more imprevious to insect damage) and/or apply in advance, preservative compounds or 'dust onto dust':)

Metals corrode/rust etc. Surfaces mold.

Besides the physical consequences, there were social factors as well.

"Relationship" can be a defining word, in maintaining a house in Mexico.

As intimately associated with 'terreno' as the price of bricks and mortar.

Or such has been my experience in smaller places.

(This post was edited by wendy devlin on Apr 10, 2007, 8:51 AM)