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arbon

Oct 10, 2006, 4:44 PM

Post #1 of 12 (5329 views)

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Coffee causes violence.

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Low coffee prices causes violence, and poor coffee quality in Southern Mexico.

http://americas.irc-online.org/am/959

"Behind each cup of coffee consumed lies an explosive situation. During the past seven years, thousands of hungry small coffee growers and agricultural workers have blocked the highways and public offices of several Central American countries. In regions that rely on coffee production, out-migration, robbery, violence, and drug cultivation have all increased exponentially. Many growers have succumbed to the temptation to take the machete to the coffee plants and be done with it. "




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DoDi2


Oct 10, 2006, 5:10 PM

Post #2 of 12 (5320 views)

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Re: [arbon] Coffee causes violence.

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part II

Southern Mexico discussion continues uninterupted....



thank you companero arbon


arbon

Oct 10, 2006, 5:52 PM

Post #3 of 12 (5310 views)

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Re: [DoDi2] Coffee causes violence.

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A Day Without a Mexican.

DoDi, do you think the sequel "A Day Without Coffee" would be as eye opening?
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raferguson


Oct 10, 2006, 9:58 PM

Post #4 of 12 (5292 views)

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Re: [arbon] Facts about immigration - was Coffee causes violence.

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I think that one of the common mistaken ideas that people have is that individuals migrate to the USA because they do not have jobs, or are extremely poor and desperate. Those people who are extremely poor or unemployed will find it difficult to raise enough money to migrate to the USA, pay coyotes, etc. According to the study below, the migrants to the USA are a cross-section of the Mexican workforce, not coming predominantly from any one group, such as agricultural workers. Even people with some college education are migrating illegally to the USA. In my view, migration is primarily driven by wage differentials between the USA and Mexico. People are making a rational decision that they would prefer to make $5 an hour in the USA vs. $5 a day in Mexico.

The Pew Hispanic Center says that

"The vast majority of undocumented migrants from Mexico were gainfully employed before they left for the United States. Thus, failure to find work at home does not seem to be the primary reason that the estimated 6.3 million undocumented migrants from Mexico have come to the U.S. Policies aimed at reducing migration pressures by improving economic conditions in Mexico may also need to address factors such as wages, job quality, long-term prospects and perceptions of opportunity."

" The percentage of migrants coming from the agriculture sector in Mexico has dropped from 41% among those who arrived more than 15 years ago to 20% among recent arrivals. Higher proportions of migrants are now coming to the U.S. with a background in construction, manufacturing and sales. "

"In sum, the respondents to the survey do not appear to have migrated to the U.S. because they were without work in Mexico. The vast majority of migrants were gainfully employed before they moved to the U.S. Their employment background reflects that of the labor force in Mexico—they worked principally in agriculture, construction, manufacturing and commerce (or sales). Male respondents, the elderly, those who did not attend or did not graduate from high school and respondents who arrived in the U.S. more than 15 years ago were more likely than average to have worked in farming in Mexico. The industry background of newly arrived respondents closely matches the current distribution of Mexico’s labor force. To the extent that unemployment has played a role in motivating workers to migrate, its role has steadily diminished over time. Underemployment rather than open unemployment is probably the more important factor behind the decision to migrate. Other economic incentives to migrate are likely to include earnings, job quality, long-terms prospects and perceptions of opportunity. "

"a new Pew Hispanic Center report shows that most of the unauthorized population lives in families, a quarter has at least some college education...."

I don't mean to totally discount the idea that when a region hits bad economic times, more people will migrate, but the statistics show that migrants are coming from even the middle class of Mexico, not predominantly from the poorest of the poor.

Richard


http://www.fergusonsculpture.com


sfmacaws


Oct 11, 2006, 12:33 AM

Post #5 of 12 (5284 views)

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Re: [Bubba] continuing conversation

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Quote
I´m thinking that if I can get Jonna to drink EZLN coffee and Chavez Cola from Venezuela with Caribbean Club Seven year Old Añejo Rum from Cuba, I´ll have a convert or, if that is not to be, at least we can solve the world´s problems on a park bench in Los Cerrilos over Cuba Libres.


I'm good with all of that, I like the coffee and the rum but I've never tried the Chavez Cola. I also have no problem with Delegate Zero and his crew, I was hanging with them last New Years. Now that I look at my pics I think I see you in there.



It's tough to tell what Delegate Zero (aka Commandante Marcos) sees as the solution and I think he is so surrounded and controlled by the marxists around him that his voice is getting lost. Here's a pic of the hammer and sickle 'honor guard' that began the parade.



At this point, the Zapatistas resemble dinosaurs - kind of a lost world of euro political hacks - they add meaning to the word co-opted.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Bubba

Oct 11, 2006, 8:41 AM

Post #6 of 12 (5259 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] continuing conversation

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I personally think there is no better mix than Arbon´s semi-humor, Jonna´s incongruous Republicanism and Rafurgerson´s expositive monologues. I thought a bit of Bubba inseriousness would add spice. And, Jonna, we will share that rum and cola at the plaza in Los Cerrillos no matter who is in charge.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Oct 11, 2006, 8:41 AM)


nfabq

Oct 11, 2006, 11:17 PM

Post #7 of 12 (5199 views)

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Re: [arbon] Beheadings in Uruapan.

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I didn't get a chance to reply to your response to my post on another thread;the thread was locked before I could get to it.

The operative words in my message were "targeted murder", the words " drug related" were merely modifiers I used because ALL 3-4 newspapers that reported the incident used that phrase.Did they speculate? Possibly.But we can't check out your version of the motive because you didn't cite your source.

Norm


arbon

Oct 12, 2006, 10:42 AM

Post #8 of 12 (5178 views)

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Re: [nfabq] Beheadings in Uruapan.

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"But we can't check out your version of the motive because you didn't cite your source."

The source I can't find any more, was to do with the (Innocent) women and child that had been killed before the 5 heads and hand written note on the dance floor.

The speculation was on a local forum, to explain the meaning in the note, to people on the dance floor who did not know who the heads had belonged to.



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Bubba

Oct 13, 2006, 10:17 AM

Post #9 of 12 (5145 views)

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Re: [arbon] Coffee causes violence.

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You know, Arbon, I had a $60 Peso Americano (Two shots of espresso and a wee bit of hot water) at the Starbucks at the Guadalajara airport the other day made with beans known as "free trade" organic Fincas de Chiapas. "Free Trade" Organic Fincas de Chiapas Beans means "expensive" in Starbuckianese which is amusing since the farmers in Chiapas don´t get squat for thier coffee but to me this was the perfect experience. There I sat at the Guadalajara airport in between the $60 Peso Starbucks coffee and the $59,90 Peso Cheese Whopper presented by Burger King simultaneously supporting the impoverished small coffee growers in Chiapias. My kind of semi-protest.

Some bonehead just wrote me a private message calling me a pompous bully who should get a life. Maybe she has a point but it is I who parted with $60 Pesos to reforest Chiapas. What did she do this week for mankind!


arbon

Oct 13, 2006, 10:28 AM

Post #10 of 12 (5139 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Coffee causes violence.

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"Free Trade" coffee? or was it "Fair Trade" coffee?
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Bubba

Oct 13, 2006, 11:17 AM

Post #11 of 12 (5132 views)

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Re: [arbon] Coffee causes violence.

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Now, you know it was "fair trade". Here I try to come on and be nice to you and this is the thanks I get. You better clear in with me before you leave the frozen tundra for the beautiful jungles of Chiapas.


nfabq

Oct 13, 2006, 9:34 PM

Post #12 of 12 (5092 views)

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Re: [arbon] Beheadings in Uruapan.

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So,what you're saying is,"we don't know the motive," woman killed or drugs,or something else.

Norm
 
 
 
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