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Hound Dog

May 8, 2010, 1:54 PM

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A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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Here is the best restaurant in which we have personally dined in Mexico.. Not to say the best, simply the best in which we have dined in Mexico.

Casa Oaxaca and by that I mean the one in the hotel, not the indistingushed branch also in the Oaxaca historic center. Exquisite. Splendid food with European flair but Oaxacan roots. Chef Alejandro is a native of rural Oaxaca state taught to cook by his mother but trained in Europe using classical methods of haut cuisine. My wife and I would never miss goung to this place in our frequent visits to Oaxaca City. I was not with my wife and a family friend from Ajijic on their recent visit but my wife had the duck with ginger and guajillo chiles and her friend had a breaded sea bass with parsley and thinly sliced carrots. They raved about the food. Clearly at least two Michelin stars in France. Superb.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on May 8, 2010, 1:57 PM)

Hound Dog

May 8, 2010, 10:10 PM

Post #2 of 32 (4442 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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OK, I didn´t mean to signle out Oaxaca City as an "overrated" restaurant town. We love Oaxaca cuisine and what I meant is that there are a number of overrated restaurants serving up tourist chow in Oaxaca City. I could and will say the same about the vastly overrated restaurant scene in San Cristóbal de Las Casas but just because there are so many restaurants in both Oaxaca City and San Cristóbal specializing in what I think of as "tour bus" food. Actually, my two favorite restaurant cities in Southern Mexico are Merida and, believe it or not, Tuxtla Gutierrez. That´s just my opinion and nothing more than that. Don´t sell the Chiapas state capital of Tuxtla Gutierrez short. Lots of very good restaurants there I kid you not. Stick with Chiapanecan style food which can be excellent.

Hound Dog

May 12, 2010, 12:55 PM

Post #3 of 32 (4332 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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I would have expected a lively dialogue having eminated from my preposturous notion that restaurant food in Oaxaca City is of marginal quality in general. Yet, I put up that challenge a couple of days or more ago and and the response has been nonexistent. Have I intimidated Oaxacan food addicts or are people simply being reticent because they are shy about participating in a discourse on the subject. Please take me on as the reason I post here on a forum I respect is to encourage some sort of controversy which is, after all , what food is all about.

After all, Oaxacan food is special. Discuss it seriously with The Dawg not as an antagonist but as a fellow disciplinarian and foodie. Let´s compare some sumptuous meals and recipes. Have at it.

Fine Oaxaca food today is much like fine Alabama food in Dawg´s youth in the 1950s. You get it in home cooking. While most restaurant food in Oaxaca City is a hollow reflection of the food one would get in the homes of locals in our experience, the home cooking we have had down there has been memorable at all times. Our indigenous friends from Teotitlan del Valle are superb cooks and I never turn down an opportunity to dine with them.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on May 12, 2010, 4:42 PM)

Memo

May 13, 2010, 11:18 AM

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Re: [Hound Dog] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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Allright then. The food in Oaxaca is absolutely fantastic. Anybody who says otherwise is a dolt without taste or adventure. What I remember the most were these huge "chanclas" I think they were called. Grand tortillas jammed with lots of cheese and other goodies. Oaxacans do not take their food lightly. Whenever I would go there to visit a Oaxacan friend of mine we would always end up making the rounds of the city going from delicious specialty to the next. When I knew ahead of time I was going to visit I would intentionally eat less a couple of days before just to keep up with them. We would inevitably end up in the zocalo at a table sharing plates of finger food with Mezcal. The only thing that they may be more passionate about is just that: mezcal. It's where I learned that it's mezcal not tequila that has a worm and know you don't know shit if you start talking about tequila and the worm in the same sentence.

Hound Dog

May 13, 2010, 12:01 PM

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Re: [Memo] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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That´s what I´m looking for, Memo. Stir the pot I say. Now, the last creature I saw in a bottle of mezcal was a scorpion in a bar in Huatulco but this was certainly intended as a novelty item. Dawg is a tequila fanatic but only tequila blanco and considers mezcal to be an inferior distilled product to my beloved Herradura Blanco but to each his own. Since we spend a bit of time in Teotitlan del Valle, Oaxaca each year during which periods the mezcal flows freely and almost continuously, I have made the decision that it is also a fine spirit. I´ve never actually seen a worm in a bottle of mezcal in Teotitlan but then, after a bit of mezcal one cannot see anything or at least anything that one would remember having seen.

The food we are fed in the homes in Teotitlan is delicious and unsurpassed in this country although the huge tortillas favored there are not among my favorites. To me the best tortillas in Mexico that I have tasted so far come from Yucatan. Your experience may differ.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on May 13, 2010, 12:02 PM)

geri

May 13, 2010, 12:12 PM

Post #6 of 32 (4254 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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Isn't there a food forum on Mexconnect?

Food aficionados have a difficult time understanding that food isn't uppermost in everyone's life, especially when traveling. It fuels the body, like gas fuels the buses. There are enough fine restaurants in any town in the world to satisfy my occasional dip into gourmet. And to make food controversial? OMG

Memo

May 13, 2010, 1:58 PM

Post #7 of 32 (4241 views)

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Re: [geri] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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The Mexicans I know who live abroad miss the food more than anything. I can't say I blame them. Mexican food is definitely among the top five in the world. Many times I have seen them sit around and talk just about food for hours.

Not a michelada man here? Give me a cigar and a good cold michelada with the Tabasco, worchester, etc etc and then shoot me if you like.

Rolly

May 13, 2010, 2:24 PM

Post #8 of 32 (4233 views)

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Re: [Memo] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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The cooking pages on my website have drawn many e-mails from Mexicans living abroad who are delighted to find instructions for making the food they miss. A common thread is "My mother never taught me to cook, and my husband wants the kind of food his mother made." I can't tell you how many times a lady has said "You saved my marriage."

Maybe I should re-title the cooking section "Saving Marriages One Bean at a Time"

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

Hound Dog

May 13, 2010, 4:14 PM

Post #9 of 32 (4213 views)

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Re: [Memo] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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The Mexicans I know who live abroad miss the food more than anything. I can't say I blame them. Mexican food is definitely among the top five in the world. Many times I have seen them sit around and talk just about food for hours.

The top ten cuisines in the world are (not in order. All are exciting and noted for complexity of experience. Most have significant regional variations within the identified political entities):
Chinese
French
Thai
Moroccan
Persian
Various Arabic (other than Moroccan)
East Indian
Various Caribbean with European, African and East Indian influences
Vietnamese
Ethiopian
Greek

Oops! That´s eleven. Where is Mexico?

Damn! I forgot Korean, Turkish and Italian and Afganistani. Too late.

That´s 15 national and/or regional cuisines and still no Mexico.

Some of you may disagree with my ratings but this forum business is all about opinions, no?

Actually the best Mexican food I ever tasted was cooked up in California.

Mexican food in general misses the mark on several levels and that is the reason it fails to make Dawg´s top 15.

Just for the record, I have eaten the native and/or fusion (as in Caribbean) food in most of these countries while actually there so this is not conjecture. That doesn´t mean I´m right - just that in most cases I´ve been there over time. Few cusiines at the source have disappointed me as much as that of Mexico in general. Greatly overrated except for a few regional anomalies.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on May 13, 2010, 5:26 PM)

Memo

May 14, 2010, 2:22 AM

Post #10 of 32 (4179 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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I'm not going to argue about it because it is a very relative thing much like how you like your sex. Your list certainly is not authoritative even though you are much like another friend of mine who states opinions with such an air of finality that most who encounter him end up stomping away enraged. Let's just say that for me Mexican is in the top five, but it may have more to do with the fact that while eating my meals I am often accompanied by a Latin woman of cinnamon skin with flowing hair black as coal and healthy hips. I could be eating glass and it wouldn't matter.

(This post was edited by Memo on May 14, 2010, 2:25 AM)

Hound Dog

May 14, 2010, 7:05 AM

Post #11 of 32 (4160 views)

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Re: [Memo] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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it may have more to do with the fact that while eating my meals I am often accompanied by a Latin woman of cinnamon skin with flowing hair black as coal and healthy hips. I could be eating glass and it wouldn't matter.

On this last point we agree.

By the way, Memo, I said that the list I published was my top 15, not THE top 15. The post was made in response to the post that Mexican food was among the top five cuisines in the world - a rather emphatic and opinionated statement, no? One opinion published and my own published in response. That is what forums are all about to the best of my knowledge.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on May 14, 2010, 7:06 AM)

Peter

May 14, 2010, 7:11 AM

Post #12 of 32 (4155 views)

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Re: [Memo] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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I will start by saying I consider Mexican food to be among the tastiest of worldwide cuisines. One reason I love it is that its tastes are about as subtle as the grito, which I may be inclined to shout as the full effects of a particularly spicy mouthful hits its mark. These chile-laden dishes are my own personal daily chemo regimen for which I feel my arteries have little chance to clog or the intruding "baddies" have slim opportunity of survival in my bodily systems.

Not being so well-travelled as Hound Dog I cannot begin to rate the world's cuisines from the standpoint of having been there and done that, though a world tour for food tasting is something I would truly love to do, however unlikely that may be given that I am retired and a pensioner now. What I have been able to sample has shown me the world is full of gastronomical delights and that such a tour would be a dream come true. But also my sampling of "authentic" dishes from around the world requires some acquired tastes to properly enjoy, or a less well-developed sense of taste to overcome some sharpnesses. Overall, though, I agree with Dawg that Mexican food as I have experienced in restaurants here fail to come up to certain levels of excellence, particularly in the more "upscale" establishments, and the real Mexican culinary magic is performed in the homes and on the street corners of Mexico.

Fortunately, Tere, my compañera with the black hair and cinnamon skin, is working much of that magic in our home.

(This post was edited by Peter on May 14, 2010, 9:19 AM)

Vichil

May 14, 2010, 9:22 AM

Post #13 of 32 (4135 views)

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Re: [Peter] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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A British review came up with the top 50 restaurants of High Cuisine in the world, their world being largely Western.. Biko in Polanko came up number 46, a great achievement in this illustrious list. ( a Japanese and a couple of Chinese restaurants made it but that is it for Asia).)
Anyone has been there ? What do you think of the food?

Number one in the World according to these critics is Danish. Quite a few Basque restaurants from Spain are on the list as well as the famous Catalan restaurant el Bulli.

geri

May 14, 2010, 11:16 AM

Post #14 of 32 (4116 views)

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Re: [Memo] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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Hey Memo....I think you're on to something. In restaurants, I'm usually gawking at the handsome latinos with their shiny hair and wide smiles. These young men are generally flirting with the genre of Latina you describe (sigh), but my looking and sighing distracts me from fully savoring the food, maybe.

Hound Dog

May 14, 2010, 4:00 PM

Post #15 of 32 (4089 views)

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Re: [geri] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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....I think you're on to something. In restaurants, I'm usually gawking at the handsome latinos with their shiny hair and wide smiles.

This is a huge part of the problem with restaurants with high-falutin ambitions in cities like Guadalajara or Oaxaca where diners let gas above the place from which it is supposed to emit. Reminds me of the Los Angeles I moved to as a naive young Alabamian in 1966. People don´t know decent food from squat either in the Guadalajara of 2010 or the Los Angeles of 1966. The dining scene is all about seeing or having been seen and to have been seen eating something impressive no matter how repulsive. Most of the diners would not know fine food from a Spam loaf. They are out and about for the simple function of being out and about. To compare this with a truly great culinary experience is less than a good joke.

All we need in Guadalajara is naugahyde benches and cheap gin cocktails and Dawg will be back in Hollywood circa 1967 sitting there with his scotch and soda and waiting for his relish tray. Good God - give me a break!

I´ve been around long enough to know fluff when I see it.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on May 14, 2010, 4:00 PM)

geri

May 14, 2010, 4:03 PM

Post #16 of 32 (4085 views)

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Re: [geri] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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Ooops I was replying to Peter above...who replied to Memo.

Hound Dog

May 14, 2010, 4:24 PM

Post #17 of 32 (4083 views)

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Re: [geri] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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Actually, geri, I find you and Peter and Memo to be amusing contributors hereabouts. Entertaining contributors make a forum worth participation. You should not assume anything I said was meant to be demeaning of any of you or of anyone else.

Manuel Dexterity

May 14, 2010, 5:01 PM

Post #18 of 32 (4068 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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In Reply To

You can be so full of crap. How many times have you been out to eat in Guadalajara? A handful at most I'd be willing to bet.

Hound Dog

May 14, 2010, 5:17 PM

Post #19 of 32 (4064 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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All we need in Guadalajara is naugahyde benches and cheap gin cocktails and Dawg will be back in Hollywood circa 1967 sitting there with his scotch and soda and waiting for his relish tray. Good God - give me a break!

I´ve been around long enough to know fluff when I see it.

You can be so full of crap. How many times have you been out to eat in Guadalajara? A handful at most I'd be willing to bet.

OK, Manuelito, here is the truth. I have been out to eat in Guadalajara in the ten years I have lived in Mexico maybe five times. I have eaten in restaurants in Tuxtla Gutierrez in the four years I lhave lived near there maybe five times as well. I never had a good meal in Guadalajara nor a bad meal in Tuxtla Gutierrez. Stop defending this regional slop bucket town and admit that the food down in Chiapas is far superior. You are not arguing with some norteaño out of Brownsville. Why do you treat me with such disrespect? I am deeply hurt.

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(This post was edited by Hound Dog on May 14, 2010, 7:25 PM)

roni_smith

May 14, 2010, 8:15 PM

Post #20 of 32 (4043 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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I make a find Veracruzana fish, a better than average red mole, and a really good cochinita pibil. I am going to work on a few other regional cuisines. I love good Mexican food. I'll find some photos :)
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Planning for Mexico Move Blog

Hound Dog

May 14, 2010, 8:51 PM

Post #21 of 32 (4037 views)

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Re: [roni_smith] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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Roni:

As a huge fan of Veracruz and Yucatecan food, I request that you share your Veracruzano seafood and cochinita pibil recipes with the rest of us. Despite my bullshit postings there are regional Mexican recipes I love.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on May 14, 2010, 8:52 PM)

roni_smith

May 14, 2010, 9:06 PM

Post #22 of 32 (4028 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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My pibil recipe closely follows that of Rick Bayless - but not completely

I get a liter of Goya Seville orange juice, achiote paste and banana leaves at my local El Sol Latino in Tualatin, OR.

I put some of the bitter orange juice, one cake of achiote paste, about 8 cloves of garlic (minced) and a couple of minced habañeros in a blender to make the marinade.

I lay out the banana leaves, lengthwise and widthwise, in a big pyrex rectangular baking dish, and place the pork on it. I have used boneless shoulder and have also done it with one of those big 9-10 pound pork loins cut in sizes that will fit in the container.

I put the pork in the container and stab the hell out of it with a big fork to make holes that the marinade can flow into. I then pour the marindae in it and rub it some. I wear latex gloves for this.

In the fridge overnight (with the banana leaves that were to damn big for the cooking container wrapped over the top of the pork).

Next day, 6 hours in a 250 degree oven and it is ready to be pulled, served in tortillas with hanbañero salsa. Since I like the Frontera Hanbañero-cilantro-lime salsa so well, I did not make a homemade salsa like the one I get with my tacos at La Jarochita food cart in downtown Portland.

I have served this to guests a couple of times. It was edible. It is the shoulder in the photo.

Here are some photos of the process

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Planning for Mexico Move Blog

(This post was edited by roni_smith on May 14, 2010, 9:12 PM)

Manuel Dexterity

May 14, 2010, 9:20 PM

Post #23 of 32 (4017 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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OK, Manuelito, here is the truth. I have been out to eat in Guadalajara in the ten years I have lived in Mexico maybe five times. I have eaten in restaurants in Tuxtla Gutierrez in the four years I lhave lived near there maybe five times as well. I never had a good meal in Guadalajara nor a bad meal in Tuxtla Gutierrez. Stop defending this regional slop bucket town and admit that the food down in Chiapas is far superior. You are not arguing with some norteaño out of Brownsville. Why do you treat me with such disrespect? I am deeply hurt.

Deeply hurt, my butt. You're such a phoney. Hell, in another thread you let some dude slide that dissed the Yucatecan food you ceaselessly brag about.

For the past few years you have been a one man San Cristóbal Chamber of Commerce but all of a sudden you need to promote dining in TG because you and I both know you cannot get a decent meal in San Cristóbal. And all of this nonsense about coming back to Chapala for the weather when you and I both know its because you are starving down in Chiapas. Subway can only sustain a person for so long. I can get tamales in Guadalajara that would make Chiapanecos forget about planting corn.

And then you try to BS us about eating in Guadalajara or have you forgotten your profusive praise of Carnes Garibaldi? And....I think I remember a compliment or two about the chiles en nogada at Casa Fuerte in Tlaquepaque which shows you know as much about chiles as a square head from Fargo.

But you are 100% correct about Oaxaca being an overrated restaurant town.

Hound Dog

May 14, 2010, 9:38 PM

Post #24 of 32 (4012 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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Forgive me Manuelito but you are one funny sumbitch. I cannot respond until I stop laughing which may take a week.

Peter

May 14, 2010, 10:44 PM

Post #25 of 32 (4001 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] A Fine Restaurant in an Overrated Restaurant Town

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That you could find at least one restaurant in Oaxaca that is worthy of praise speaks well of the city's offerings. It is a much grander endorsement than I can give to my city of residence, Morelia, which, despite its many praiseworthy features and attractions, has no restaurant I have found yet that I could rate better than merely "passable" and most I would call disappointing.

I do not have incredibly high standards by which to guage a restaurant other than, "I know what I like when I eat it." I truly appreciate a dish that offers something new to me in terms of flavor or texture that I can hardly wait to try to prepare for myself at home, or by the same token can appreciate a standard item that was well-executed and nicely presented. Morelia offers nothing of the sort. Instead of a dining experience where I am at the table trying to guess what ingredients the chef used or what technique was used to obtain the end product, I find myself thinking how I would improve that dish myself if it were one of those rare instances here that I actually consider it was something worthwhile to serve.

For Oaxaca then, three cheers and a grito!

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