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johninajijic

Nov 5, 2010, 8:07 AM

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WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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The following I received from a very good friend of mine. Please be careful…....

I wanted to send a warning out to all who use ATM cards in Ajijic. Several people have been taken for quiet a bit of money using the ATM machines at the Farmacia Guadalajara and Bancomer and other machines as well. There is a skimmer that is in the slot where you insert your card. It captures your information and pass code. Several people have had their accounts compromised and money has been stolen from the accounts. This has happened all within the last week. Please check your accounts if you have used these machines. The amounts stolen have been anywhere between 300 pesos to 2,700 pesos each time. This has happened to several people that we know of personally.



gpkgto

Nov 5, 2010, 12:22 PM

Post #2 of 39 (3064 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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Another forum reported the return of the same problem to San Miguel de Allende also.


bournemouth

Nov 5, 2010, 3:24 PM

Post #3 of 39 (3028 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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John - I've heard the stories about the Banamex machine in Farmcias Guadalajara in Ajijic and the HSBC machine in Super Lake in San Antonio - but none about Bancomer machines - can you elaborate on that aspect of your post?


RickS

Nov 5, 2010, 6:15 PM

Post #4 of 39 (3002 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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How in the world can someone monkey with the an ATM such as the HSBC in Superlake... it's inside, right out in the open by the checkout lanes with people passing by all day long?!? Does maybe someone come in with HSBC uniforms and pretend to be maintaining the ATMs? Just wondering.


mexliving

Nov 5, 2010, 6:22 PM

Post #5 of 39 (3001 views)

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Re: [RickS] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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its an inside job.... i recomend everyone open a separate account at their online bank.... keep 5.00 balance.. and when you are planning to go to atm.. transfer the amount you want to withdrawl... this way there is no way for someone to take money out of an account that does not have more then 10.00 balance available.. make sure that account does not get covered by your other accounts for insuficient funds.


don pedro


Nov 6, 2010, 6:43 AM

Post #6 of 39 (2944 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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what a bogus post. who would use sophisticated methods to net $300pesos?

http://chapalamexicoinfo.createforumhosting.com


johninajijic

Nov 6, 2010, 6:59 AM

Post #7 of 39 (2941 views)

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Re: [don pedro] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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don pedro quote - what a bogus post. who would use sophisticated methods to net $300pesos?

Is that why you removed my post from your ExpatsForum so people could get stuck with a problem? Your so brave why don't you go to Farmacia Guadalajara and insert your card and let us know how you make out. This information is reliable as it happened to a friend of mine, but as usual you know more than the facts.

Copying credit card information has been ongoing in Mexico for many years. Mexico is number one in fraud of credit cards according to one of the largest banks in the US.


(This post was edited by johninajijic on Nov 6, 2010, 7:13 AM)


don pedro


Nov 6, 2010, 8:51 AM

Post #8 of 39 (2911 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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your post wasn't removed. i put it in the members only section where jokes and rumour stough goes.
since i deal with scotiabank,i only use the scotia/inverlat machines which are all over mexico,in any event.

http://chapalamexicoinfo.createforumhosting.com


Vichil

Nov 6, 2010, 9:30 AM

Post #9 of 39 (2898 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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Thank you for the warning.

Do you know for sure it is happening at ATM located on the bank premises? I am curious about these as well. I do not use any of the other machines as we had problems in the past and there is no one to speak to when the machine keeps your card or malfunctions.


Vichil

Nov 6, 2010, 9:53 AM

Post #10 of 39 (2888 views)

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Re: [don pedro] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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A long time ago I worked with a distributor who would automatically deduct 2 to 10 dollars to any bill he would receive and would short pay all of his suppliers in this manner. He knew the suppliers would charge off the small amounts rather than do battle with him.
One day I got very annoyed and asked him why the hell he would do that ? His response was that he laughed all the way to the bank and made thousands of extra dollars per year. Maybe some people down here have the same theory. If there are hundreds of transactions and you collect 300 pesos each time it adds up pretty quickly.

If John has friends who were cheated that way why are you calling it "bogus"?


Hound Dog

Nov 6, 2010, 10:43 AM

Post #11 of 39 (2876 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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don pedro quote - what a bogus post. who would use sophisticated methods to net $300pesos?

Well, John, I wouldn´t worry about what the responder above thinks of your warning or the fact that, on a forum he apparently controls, he disrespectfully and proudly moved your warning to a section of that forum reserved for jokes and rumors. This sort of gratuitous ridicule of someone attempting to perform a public service with nothing personal to gain is not untypical of some. By posting your warnings about ATM fraud here you are reaching an audience astute enough to realize that warnings of this nature, which alert the reader to be cautious when using certain off- premise ATM machines, are posted for the benefit of all and are simply warnings based on the poster´s trusted sources, not statements of indisputable fact. Why, in God´s name, anyone would proclaim such a warning as "bogus" in order to belittle the messenger is beyond me. Perhaps your detractor was in an especially bad mood when he posted his rebuke.

I, and I am sure, others, appreciate a heads-up when using ATM machines in Mexico where ATM machine fraud is rampant and this information is useful for newcomers and veterans alike.

We have lived in Mexico full time for some ten years and no longer use stand-alone ATMs or ATMs located at retail outlets that have no control of the functions of the machines because we had a few problems over the years and, when one has a problem with a machine not on the premise of a bank where one is a client (whether the debit card is issued by that or another bank), if there are problems of any kind, problem resolution becomes more problematic. We also try, when possible to use bank premise machines when the branch in which the machine is located is open for business although there are times when there is no choice in the matter.

Because we live in both Ajijic, Jalisco and San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas, we maintain two separate bank accounts at two major Mexican commercial banks and one at a major U.S. bank. Both Mexican banks have branches in just about every podunk town in the country so we are always able to find a branch of one bank or or the other anywhere we may travel and we travel extensively in Central and Southern Mexico. We recommend the reader adopt a similar pattern if possible and then it will become unnecessary to use stand-alone ATM machines except in emergencies. It has been our experience over the years that on-bank premise machines are far less likely to present you problems and if they do, there is help there to aid you in resolving those problems. No matter where you use an ATM machine, here are some hints on how to minimize potential problems:
* Observe carefully what is going on around you, try to use ATMs in public areas at banks and never use an ATM at night in a deserted area if possible.
* Try to cover the transaction with a hand when you are entering your PIN and make sure no one is able to spot the number you enter.
* Never solicit nor accept proferred help from strangers.
* Finally, and perhaps most importantly, regardless of what naysayers may say, follow forums such as this one on Mexico Connect to see if responsible citizens, such as John in this case, are posting warnings about cases of suspected fraud clusters as he wrote of in the Ajijic area and, for a time at least, when it is even remotely possible that these warnings have or may have merit, use great caution or change your habits when using area ATM machines.

Thanks again John. Perhaps you should be more selective in choosing the forums in which you participate in the future and avoid those where moderators baselessly subject you to ridicule for no apparent reason.


(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Nov 6, 2010, 11:21 AM)


sanjuan

Nov 6, 2010, 11:25 AM

Post #12 of 39 (2862 views)

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Re: [RickS] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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Those stand alone ATMs aren't serviced by the bank whose name is on them rather it is contracted out to private companies. So you wouldn't see HSBC logos or maybe any logos on the people servicing them. Obviouly someone comes in and pretends they are the service company but the staff at Superlake probably wouldn't know the difference.

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How in the world can someone monkey with the an ATM such as the HSBC in Superlake... it's inside, right out in the open by the checkout lanes with people passing by all day long?!? Does maybe someone come in with HSBC uniforms and pretend to be maintaining the ATMs? Just wondering.



Hound Dog

Nov 6, 2010, 12:04 PM

Post #13 of 39 (2855 views)

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Re: [sanjuan] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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companies. So you wouldn't see HSBC logos or maybe any logos on the people servicing them. Obviouly someone comes in and pretends they are the service company but the staff at Superlake probably wouldn't know the difference.

Well said, sanjuan:

To make matters even more problematic, the staff and management at any retail store or general mall outlet or theater or any other commercial establishment hosting an ATM machine the space for which they, no doubt, charge the ATM owner/franchisor rent for space utilization plus a percantage usage fee, will meticulously avoid any even remote connection with the machine in any manner since any acknowledgment of responsibility for the machine´s functions or malfunctions will present them with myriad problems and no gains so, as far as on-site store management is concerned it is See no evil, hear no evil."

If you have a problem in any of these retail outlets they will suggest you call the toll-free number and that will be the end of it. They will almost certainly have been trained in the efficacy of the blank, uncomprehending, stare.

This contracting out of banking services to third party providers is commonplace and has been for years as many befuddled mortgage customers have discerned over the past couple of years as they sought to pinpoint responsibility for lenders acting as nothing more than conduits for back office profit centers. I don´t think most people understand what it means when XYZ Bank issues them a VISA or MASTERCARD credit or debit card, for example. VISA and MASTERCARD are service providers and rake in millions in profits. Nothing wrong with that but layers of service providers result in layers of responsibility and layers of irrsponsibility. All is well until things go sour and then you have a field of muskrats hiding under mounds of dirt and pointing fingers down the pike.

This all bodes poorly for human interraction in the future and, like the totally corrupt systems of civil order and justice in places as diverse as Mexico and the U.S. and Nigeria, all will work well for the recipient of services until they, inadvertently find themselves on the wrong side of the honeybucket. Then; off to the gulag.


(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Nov 6, 2010, 12:07 PM)


Hound Dog

Nov 6, 2010, 12:22 PM

Post #14 of 39 (2842 views)

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Re: [mexliving] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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its an inside job.... i recomend everyone open a separate account at their online bank.... keep 5.00 balance.. and when you are planning to go to atm.. transfer the amount you want to withdrawl... this way there is no way for someone to take money out of an account that does not have more then 10.00 balance available.. make sure that account does not get covered by your other accounts for insuficient funds.

I´m sorry, mexliving, but I can´t make any personal sense of this. Do you mean that one should keep a bank account in Mexico with a $5 Pesos balance and, what you call, an "online bank" with your "real" money and then transfer funds from the foreign "online bank" to the Mexican bank account upon having made the decision to make an ATM withdrawal? That seems to be an irrational and hopelessly clumsy procedure unless I simply misunderstand you.

In the first place, what kind of Mexican bank would agree to maintain a bank account for you with a minimum balance of $5 Pesos? I have two Mexican bank accounts. In one I must maintain at least at $2,000 Peso minimum balance and in the other, at least a $20,000 Peso minimum balance or they will charge off any balance I do maintain in service charges rather shortly. Are you telling me you have a Mexican bank that will maintain a bank account for you with only a $5 Peso balance?

Please elaborate.


chinagringo


Nov 6, 2010, 1:46 PM

Post #15 of 39 (2813 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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All one has to do is conduct an Internet search for these types of scams to realize the variety and sophistication of the various devices being used throughout the world. These devices are not a "one size fits all" model and the thieves will always develop new designs to stay ahead of both the police and the public. With modern technology using wireless cameras, short range transmitting devices or unregistered or stolen cell phone parts, these thieves have any number of ways to capture the necessary info and begin using such compromised info virtually immediately at a location far removed from the point of attack. One scenario is that they sit outside near the compromised machine and through the use of a laptop, harvest said info. From there, the info is transmitted to a location where the automatic programs take over hacking into the accounts. I have read repeated comments about the ATM machines within a bank being naturally safer and would have to question this theory. The bank isn't open 24/7 and there are many off hour periods available to a crook to adjust a machine, which in some cases can be done in less than a minute.

One question was the validity of taking just $300 MXP out of an account. I would guess that they are projecting that many do not watch their accounts on a daily basis and may just figure that a $300MXP charge was something that they didn't remember doing. Sort of like a miscellaneous charge. On the other hand $3000MXP might be more noticeable. That $3000 change is easily accomplished through 10 x $300 but 1000 x $300 would be of greater benefit. Keep in mind, they know they have to hit quick and be done with that set of info before going on to another batch. As they say: "it is all in the numbers"!

All that said, I find John's original post very vague and very similar to some conversations contained in another forum. Could that be the friend? The specific details seem to be missing.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Gringal

Nov 6, 2010, 3:55 PM

Post #16 of 39 (2766 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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Nevermind the obvious love lost between some posters on here. Geez, guys: enough, already?

We use the Farmacia Guad. machine regularly; several times a week. So far, never a problem. However, we use an ATM card which is NOT a credit card and our cash withdrawal limit is deliberately low, as is our balance at the Mexican bank we do business with. As a result, our exposure to getting a cleanout is also low.

I'm sorry for anyone who gets scammed. Probably feels a lot like coming home to find your front door open and your goodies gone. Aaargh. However, like the ladies I saw today at a crowded garage sale with their purses hanging open while their attention was elsewhere............you have to watch your back and do your best to keep from getting hit by the scammers, pickpockets, mustard bandits and ATM pirates.


simpsca

Nov 7, 2010, 8:41 AM

Post #17 of 39 (2639 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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Thank you for your warning John. This ATM type of crime is wide-spread. It happened to a friend of mine in San Miguel de Allende a few years ago. Here are some photos of ATM skimmers - and I am sure there are many, many more types.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3qK46L2b_c

http://www.snopes.com/fraud/atm/atmcamera.asp


(This post was edited by Rolly on Nov 7, 2010, 8:43 AM)


mexliving

Nov 7, 2010, 12:39 PM

Post #18 of 39 (2580 views)

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Re: [simpsca] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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if you dont have a mexican account.... and your account is in the usa and you use the atm's in mexico, open a separate account that is to be use for your atm visits... keep the minimum in that account untill your planning to go to an atm... then go online and transfer to that account the funds you need to take out of atm. this way... if your card gets cloned, the thiefs cant get any real money out of your account since it has minimum balance.

online banking also allows you to place a max daily limit withdrawal.... you can change that feature any time you need to and change it back to your prefered settings on daily amount limit.


Hound Dog

Nov 7, 2010, 1:58 PM

Post #19 of 39 (2555 views)

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Re: [mexliving] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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if you dont have a mexican account.... and your account is in the usa and you use the atm's in mexico, open a separate account that is to be use for your atm visits... keep the minimum in that account untill your planning to go to an atm... then go online and transfer to that account the funds you need to take out of atm. this way... if your card gets cloned, the thiefs cant get any real money out of your account since it has minimum balance.

Tell me something. Does anyone know what this person is trying to say? Does this person know what this person is trying to say?


chinagringo


Nov 7, 2010, 2:08 PM

Post #20 of 39 (2550 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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To my way of thinking, his post seems to make perfect sense. Open a separate account to be used exclusively for ATM withdrawals - maintain a very minimal balance - immediately prior to making an ATM withdrawal, transfer just enough money to cover the withdrawal - account returns to minimum balance after withdrawal. Therefore minimal amount available is ones card is compromised.

I would add that one should make absolutely sure that there is no overdraft protection what-so-ever on this account.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Gringal

Nov 7, 2010, 2:34 PM

Post #21 of 39 (2544 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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Well, I'm guessing that what the poster was trying to say was that if you have a U.S. bank account which is linked to a Mexican bank with an ATM card, you can keep a minimum amount in the Mexican bank and just use it to get cash at ATM machines. Minimizes your exposure.
If that wasn't what the poster was trying to say.......I give up.


chinagringo


Nov 7, 2010, 2:45 PM

Post #22 of 39 (2540 views)

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Re: [Gringal] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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Maybe? But the following qualifier was in his post: "if you dont have a mexican account"
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Rolly


Nov 7, 2010, 2:59 PM

Post #23 of 39 (2537 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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Mexican banks that i am familiar with have fairly high minimum balance requirement to avoid maintenance fees.
Bank of America (and probably others) allows one to have multiple accounts that are linked for easy online transfers among the accounts. That would be a much better way to go.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook


johninajijic

Nov 7, 2010, 5:47 PM

Post #24 of 39 (2501 views)

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Re: [mexliving] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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Mexliving quote - if you dont have a mexican account.... and your account is in the usa and you use the atm's in mexico, open a separate account that is to be use for your atm visits... keep the minimum in that account untill your planning to go to an atm... then go online and transfer to that account the funds you need to take out of atm. this way... if your card gets cloned, the thiefs cant get any real money out of your account since it has minimum balance.

online banking also allows you to place a max daily limit withdrawal.... you can change that feature any time you need to and change it back to your prefered settings on daily amount limit.

It would be darned inconvenient if you had to call your bank and have them transfer money every time you needed it. which would probably be weekly or more often. If you have to distrust ATM machines that much you probably don't belong here. We haven't had a problem in 9 years using any machine anywhere.

We now use MULTIVA banks ATM exclusively as there are no charges on 8 withdrawals per month. You need an ATM card to open the door where the machine is.

Rolly is correct in his post above on minimum amount in accounts in Mexico.


(This post was edited by johninajijic on Nov 7, 2010, 5:48 PM)


Pita

Nov 7, 2010, 9:24 PM

Post #25 of 39 (2468 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] WARNING!!! USING ATM MACHINES IN AJIJIC

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I'm gonna let you all in on a little secret: this kind of ATM cloning/ fraud/magnetic strip reading/etc is going on everywhere.

In the last 4 years, we've has this happen at 3 different locations in our home state (once in a 7-11 type store, twice in a gas station), and once in Spain (not sure how that happened).

It isn't just Mexico.

Solution: In our experience, use credit cards when you can (far easier to dispute), use ATM's at bank locations, don't use your debit card EXCEPT at ATM's, check your balances several Times per week, and accept that "money in the bank" is as risky as "money in your wallet.". There are theives and pickpockets everywhere.
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