Forums > Areas > Jalisco's Lake Chapala Region

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mickeyz

Apr 9, 2003, 11:20 AM

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Not for everybody??

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As a search through everything I can possibly find (and devour it word by word) about retiring and living in the Ajijic/Lake Chapala area there is something that keeps coming up over & over "Its not for everyone" OK, I get that, there isn't much of anything that is for everyone.

I imagine that those of you that have lived there for a while have seen people come and go. I would be interested in feedback about who do you think it IS for.

Do you see certain personality types that do better (or worse). What is the biggest pitfall or unrealistic expectation that cause people to find it wasn't for them after all.

What are the biggest mistakes you see "newbies" make. What are the things people do right that helps them have a smooth transition and find the life they hoped for.

I know the way to really find out what its like is to come down there and spend time, we plan to do that soon and hopefully find a place to rent for 30-60 days. Our Spanish is limited (read this means grade school was the last time we had Spanish lessons!) We want to learn the language and will attempt to at least get some basics before coming. What is the best way to learn the language after arriving?

We hope to get as much information as we possibly can before coming down to experience things in person.

Lots of questions! Thanks for your feedback, I appreciate your insight!

Mickey

alex .

Apr 9, 2003, 12:11 PM

Post #2 of 31 (1780 views)

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Re: [mickeyz] in your face kinda place

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Some people had no idea how Mexico can assult the senses : the colors, the noises, the smells. Some feel "awakened" and "more alive" , others feel burdened. Thats why ya gotta try it to see if it works for you.
Alex

(This post was edited by alex . on Apr 9, 2003, 12:13 PM)

Musicman

Apr 9, 2003, 2:45 PM

Post #3 of 31 (1755 views)

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Re: [mickeyz] Not for everybody??

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For me, it took some time to adjust to the lack of punctuality( a coined word ) by some of the Mexican people. They are not in a hurry.......to do anything. It also took some time to get accustom to narrow, cobblestone roads, broken sidewalks.....often littered with animal droppings, the high prices of imported food products, and the ridiculously high prices of golf course green fees. If you can overcome these types of issues you, like myself, will learn to love this part of Mexico.

Georgia

Apr 9, 2003, 4:14 PM

Post #4 of 31 (1744 views)

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Re: [mickeyz] Not for everybody??

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It seems to me that the kind of individual who would least be happy here is a person with a rigid mindset about how things "ought" to be. Unfortunately, most people like that do not see themselves that way. On the other hand, people who are open, friendly, adventurous, adjust well to change, appreciate the viewpoints of others even when they do not adopt them, and who celebrate diversity should do well.

Rolly

Apr 9, 2003, 4:41 PM

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Re: [Georgia] Not for everybody??

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You have a good point, Georgia. Mexico would be hell for a control freak. I'm generally a pretty laid back guy, but it took me a while to get used to the casual attitude toward doing things when and as promised. One of the local building supply stores that I frequent quite often will order anything they don’t have in stock. The line is always the same – it’ll be here tomorrow at 1:00pm. Of course, it never is. So we have taken to calling the store the One O’clock Store.

It also took me a while to get in step with the idea of stores closing for two hours for lunch. In that case, I learned to deal with it by joining in -- I am now seriously addicted to my afternoon siestas.

I have personally observed only one couple who tried and failed to make it in Mexico. They came for the wrong reason -- they though it would cost less to live here. They came from a fairly low-cost area of the US and found that it actually cost more here than back in the old country. They made a preliminary visit, but it was too short to discover the real facts of life in Mexico. They returned to the US at the end of the first year. I agree with the advice to spend some quality time in Mexico before you commit to the move. I also believe that it is wise to rent for a year before you buy a house.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

Georgia

Apr 9, 2003, 5:48 PM

Post #6 of 31 (1723 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Not for everybody??

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I agree wholeheartedly with the rental advice -- although I didn't take that advice myself. Came for a vacation and returned three weeks later to sign the contract. Ah, well. Happy, nonetheless. I am nothing if not decisive. I would never recommend that any else take the route I took - although I am delusionally happy and have no regrets. Leap before you look is my very personal motto. I try not to give too much advice to my kids, except when it is solicited, for this reason.

esperanza

Apr 9, 2003, 6:41 PM

Post #7 of 31 (1715 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Not for everybody??

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In the many years that I've been traveling and living in Mexico, I've seen one thing over and over. Folks come here...perhaps especially here to the Lake Chapala area...and fall in love with what appears to be absolute Paradise. It's analogous to developing a romantic crush on a handsome/pretty face. Bugambilia hangs everywhere, tile roofs meet whitewashed walls, painted wooden shutters pique the curiosity as to what's behind there, fruit trees droop with the weight of oranges, mangos, limones, and bananas, cobblestones echo the clippety-clop of hooves. People from colder climes walk around starry-eyed with the glory of a sun-washed indoor/outdoor life in a temperate zone, and the starry-eyed night sky accentuates their sighs of pleasure.

And they buy a condo, or a house, and move down forever...or until the rose-colored glasses come off. Guess what, folks~wherever you go, there you are. Life here in 'paradise' has more to do with what's inside you than with what's going on in town. It's more about what goes on behind your personal walls~the physical walls of your own home and the psychological walls of your mind~than about what happens at the parties, restaurants, and other social events.

Mexico will not solve anybody's life problems. On the contrary, life in a strange culture and language will accentuate those problems. Whether we stay in our own home towns or move to the end of the world, retirement life brings us face to face with ourselves in a new way. There's no longer the buffer and distraction of work to keep us from staring at ourselves in the mirror. The distraction of volunteer work, the buffer of entertaining and being entertained won't last forever...folks, ultimately it's about the man (or woman) in the mirror. If you're not really happy where you are, you're not going to be happy here.

A year or two down the road, all of a sudden the reality of life-as-she-is-lived dawns, and all too often people wake up to the fact that they're pretty miserable here in Paradise. It's analogous to suddenly realizing that the object of your crush snores, uses bad grammar, and has terrible table manners. What to do? Back to the old home place in the States or Canada? Pick a new town, a new state, a new province, a new country?

Rather than look outside oneself, it's better to check out what's going on inside and then make the decision. And definitely rent first. ; ^ )

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Gerry Krause

Apr 9, 2003, 8:14 PM

Post #8 of 31 (1692 views)

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Re: [mickeyz] Not for everybody??

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For some people it might be to excape from the weather, or the cost of living, or the social life that they didnt like. So they moved to their paradise. For me , wherever Paradise is found one must have a positive aditude toward a new adventure with enthusiasm or you would fall back into that same old intrique that caused your disatisfaction to begin with. Wherever you go , Well there you are, ENJOY.

dleach

Apr 10, 2003, 2:02 PM

Post #9 of 31 (1639 views)

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Re: [mickeyz] Not for everybody??

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I don't live there but have visited Ajijic 6 times now. The people that have replied have given you great input. The one thing that I'd like to add is how interesting the expats are that live there. They aren't your run-of-the-mill folks from Canada or the States. Talking and visiting with them enhances your views because it sure won't be a homogeneous set of views like you'll receive in your neighborhood back home.

The Mexican experience is an aspect that I personally feel will also be enlightening. However, I'm sure not the one to comment on it. I'd be willing to bet that if you're intrigued at this point, it will definitely be a trip worth taking. You've just gotta find out if it's for you or not. See y'all in July. Can't wait.

David L.

jennifer rose

Apr 10, 2003, 7:11 PM

Post #10 of 31 (1606 views)

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Re: [Gerry Krause] Not for everybody??

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Living in Mexico isn’t the perfect fit for everyone. And even within Mexico there exists huge variations of communities and lifestyles. Those who find the Ajijic/Lake Chapala area appalling could as easily find other venues appealing. I know that Ajijic/Lake Chapala isn’t my cup of tea, and I love where I do live. But that doesn’t mean that I couldn’t be just as happy in Puebla, Cuernavaca, San Miguel de Allende or a number of other places.

I’ve seen people who carefully amass more data than NASA preparing for a moon launch. They’ll gather data on the average annual temperatures for every day of the year, compare the cost of a can of Campbell’s soup, study the demographics of every area, detailing the availability of Arborio rice and prosciutto, e-mailing others asking where the closest Pfaff repairman is, believing that arming themselves with information is going to make their transition bullet-proof. It’s as if their lives are guided by the latest recommendations on the “Best Places to Live.” One couple moved from Ajijic to Morelia, and then moved on to Aiken, South Carolina, because its rankings were higher.

And I’ve seen others who’ve bought into the community – as in buying a house – on their second day in town. And they’ve been happier every after, never looking back.

It’s a matter of whether or not you can be happy with the plate that’s handed to you.

Moving to Mexico because it once was an inexpensive place to live is no longer a valid motivation. Moving here because you enjoyed the climate on vacation isn’t a valid motivation; there may be no snow, but during the winter months, there’s no central heat either. Moving here because you love “Mexican culture” isn’t a good idea either, because Mexican culture is constantly fusing itself with other cultures.

“Rent first” isn’t always the best advice for everyone. Some folks don’t have the time or energy to spend moving around. Renting creates a completely different mentality than home ownership.

The ability to accept things as they are, observing, and learning when to keep your mouth shut are important aspects of successful survival. Learn to quit comparing the ways we do things with how it was done back in your Old Country.

Don’t try to change Mexico. Others more powerful than you have already been down that route. Don’t complain about the way we do things in Mexico. Let it change you.

Be open to new ways of doing things, new approaches, and take risks. Sometimes it can even mean doing a 180º from your old way of life.

Gerry Krause

Apr 11, 2003, 9:19 AM

Post #11 of 31 (1562 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Not for everybody??

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Archie Bunker could never live in Mevico but Edith would give a chance.

mickeyz

Apr 11, 2003, 10:04 AM

Post #12 of 31 (1556 views)

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Re: [mickeyz] Not for everybody??

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Hi Everyone,

Thanks so much for all the feedback...good stuff!

That was a great comment by Jennifer Rose about people and their research...it is exactly how I am starting to feel. LOL I know that type of info is only info and won't answer the question "is it for us" We plan to come down soon and rent a place for a couple months and re-evaluate from there.

She also indicated that perhaps the cost of living is not cheaper??? Can this be so? Though it is not our primary reason for considering this move it IS high on the hit list.

We live in Northern California and it is not as expensive as Southern Calif but we will still have to work another 10-15 years to retire! If we move to Mexico we would be able to afford $1800-$2000 every month to live on (over and above housing expense). Can we do that?

I know it all depends on our "lifestyle" but ours is pretty standard middle class. Rather be gardening than golfing. Not big on constant dining out.

Your additional comments are appreciated!

jennifer rose

Apr 11, 2003, 10:51 AM

Post #13 of 31 (1544 views)

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Re: [mickeyz] Not for everybody??

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While the cost of living ought not be the sole motivation for moving to Mexico, many aspects of living here are less costly. Those who move here for only that reason are likely to be disappointed or have less than an optimum experience. Running the risk of arrogance, my stance has always been a conservative one, if only to warn those who contemplate living in Mexico on less than $1,000/month, housing included.

There's a price tag attached to living inexpensively. Some of the amenities you may have become accustomed to up North aren't available, and one simply learns to accomodate one's lifestyle. On the flip side, there are benefits -- like lower property taxes and personal services -- that take the sting out of doing without, not having a Barnes & Noble around the corner, and paying shocking prices for technology-related goods. One learns to shrug, buck up, and deal with it.

"Standard middle class" is still a pretty broad spectrum. It's still like asking "What is a reasonably good color?" Still, $1,800-$2,000 USD above and beyond housing, for a couple, should provide a pleasant lifestyle. Now, you've mentioned 10-15 years off into the future. Only G-d knows what the economy will be like then.

mickeyz

Apr 11, 2003, 11:16 AM

Post #14 of 31 (1540 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Not for everybody??

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Jennifer Rose ~ Thanks for the reply. I appreciate feedback from those that are actually living in Mexico.

When I mentioned 10-15 years I did not mean we would not be moving to Mexico for 10-15 years. I meant that if we stay in Calif doing what we are doing that we could not retire for 10-15 years. That seems like a pretty long time to us.

However, by leaving Calif now and moving to Mexico we would have the funds available to us to live in Mexico on $1800-$2000 a month over housing expense (assuming we would rent for a while) Once we made the decision to make the move permanent we would sell our Calif home and buy in Mexico...still giving us about $2000 per month after paying for a home.

Talk is cheap! We just need to get ourselves down there and get on with things. We are hope to have things in order here over the next few weeks.

Thanks again, I so much appreciate everyones input!

Mickey

jennifer rose

Apr 11, 2003, 8:31 PM

Post #15 of 31 (1494 views)

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First-year expenses

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Your first year or so living in Mexico will be marked by higher living expenses, because you’ll be setting up a household anew, buying essentials like wastebaskets, because you’ll still be in a honeymoon stage buying up arts and crafts and plants that you couldn’t schlep back to the States when you were vacationing, and because you haven’t discovered where to buy some things less expensively. But by the time you’ve become integrated into the community, those extra expenses may vanish…..only to be replaced by feeling an obligation to make greater donations to your local charitable institution, supporting the local posada or fiesta, getting more invitations to showers, weddings and other events which require a gift.

Uncle Donnie

Apr 15, 2003, 8:40 PM

Post #16 of 31 (1425 views)

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Good advice

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Good advice all up and down the line here; and never apologize for gathering info. Some of it will be good and useful, some totally worthless, but jennifer has hit the nail on the head in two respects.

First (sorry Georgia) RENT!!! You may be as fortunate as some who buy on their first visit but I always bet the other way; a sure method of coming out ahead. You're basically honeymooning for the first year or two.

Next, as jjr says, one type of expenditure is usually replaced by another. Once you've learned that some of that rustic or crafty furniture doesn't work the way you're used to, and is not nearly as comfortable as you'd prefer you need to decide whether to keep dealing with it or spend more to get comfort.

And you do get invited in to the local scene unless you're really a horse's butt. That involves money as jj pointed out. Sometimes that's not a negative.

The plus side(s) is that most of the people are friendly and lovely to deal with (a real Mexican smile can light up a city block) and depending totally upon whether you find a place down here that suits you the geography, plants, animals, and climate can quickly cause you to believe you're in your own personal heaven. Mexico's a big place and to be truly satisfied with your life down here you need to explore and find your spot.

Frank is a good example of how to do it. Come spend a few months, learn your way around the area, shop with the locals, spend time on the plazas, go to local festivals and celebrations, and see if you fit and if you like it.

The Lake Chapala area is a great place to ease into life down here and each of the towns around the lake show differing faces to those who look.
Come check us out. Someone will shpw you around. And keep in mind that there are many more Mexicos out there to look at if you're not happy with this place.

Shameless self-promotion:
http://www.headformexico.com

Frank Burton

Apr 15, 2003, 11:06 PM

Post #17 of 31 (1412 views)

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Re: [Uncle Donnie] Good advice

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Mickey, if, along with the information you've received, you like the sound/feel of the people who have responded to your post, you'll probably fit in very well somewhere in Mexico. You've attracted the cream of the crop, in my opinion.

Only one thing to add: If by Northern California you mean the SF Bay Area, the cost of comparable housing down here is much less. If on the other hand you mean somewhere at least a hundred miles from SF and not in Carmel/Monterey/Pacific Grove, the cost of housing will be somewhat less. My wife and I moved here from the SF Bay Area just last October, so our experience of the contrast is fresh.

Jilian

Jul 9, 2003, 3:39 PM

Post #18 of 31 (1295 views)

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Re: [mickeyz] Not for everybody??

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Hello or Hola

I realize this is a rather old thread I'm following, but I'm very interested in the Ajijic area and am seriously considering a move. This thread has been most helpful and I would so appreciate any other information anyone can provide me. I am looking to do a pre-visit to determine if this would be a "fit" and then would probably rent. I currently live in the Seattle, WA area and do not like hot hot weather or humidity - neither does my cat, Edward. Speaking of which, is it fairly easy to bring pets into Mexico?

Gracias in advance for any guidance, help, advice, etc.

Jilian

esperanza

Jul 10, 2003, 5:41 AM

Post #19 of 31 (1259 views)

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Re: [Jilian] Not for everybody??

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Jilian, you get a little bit of several different kinds of weather here in Ajijic. In December, January (and sometimes part of February), it's warm (70s+) during the days but pretty chilly during the nights (lows can go as low as the high 30s farenheit, and this past winter it was 32 at least once~and the chill lasted into April). Mid-April till mid-June it is hot hot hot during the days~into the 90s or above~but with very low humidity (10% is not uncommon). Toward the end of June it becomes quite humid, but cooler during the days and the nights, as the rainy season begins. Right this minute it's cool, damp, misty, and gorgeous. The rains usually stop sometime in October and the humidity begins to lower. From October till December the days are warm-to-hot (80s) and the nights are cool (high 50s). Actually, even during the hottest times the nights are cool.

Do come for a visit. The best way to see if you'll like it is to be here for a while; if you can swing coming down several times, at different times of the year, do that. I met people this Spring who came for two weeks specifically at the hottest time of the year, just to see if they could stand it. They figured if they could stand the heat, they could deal with anything else. They stood it, and they'll be back to stay.

Read a lot on the Ajijic forum. You'll see what others' experiences have been. Nothing substitutes, however, for your own experience here. And remember, the weather is just a tiny part of the experience of life in Mexico.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

johanson

Jul 10, 2003, 9:45 AM

Post #20 of 31 (1229 views)

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Re: [Jilian] Not for everybody??

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I leave Ajijic every year in late April, because the temp reaches the high 80s and sometimes low 90s. Unlike Seattle it is very dry, so it's not so bad. Then in mid June, the rains come, the hills become green, the temperature drops, and it becomes wonderful again. The trouble is, about the time it becomes wonderful again is when the sun comes out in Skagit County (for those of you not from Seattle, that's about 1 hour north thereof, just South of Van, BC.)

That's just my opinion, Folks from the humid South laugh at me when I complain at what I consider hot,

Jilian

Jul 10, 2003, 11:35 AM

Post #21 of 31 (1219 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Not for everybody??

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Esperanza - thank you so much for your kind and generous reply. Weather is not my main concern, but I do know hot and humid make me a cranky little grease spot. A few months are certainly do-able and the weather you mentioned having that day is ideal for me. I love travel and getting to know other people, so getting to know the native people and their culture is high up on my list.

My plan is to get my buns down there as soon as possible - will be good to experience the hot season - could you also be kind enough to recommend a place to stay?

I have been so impressed with the people responding on the forum - that already says something very good about the area.

Gracias!

Jilian

Jul 10, 2003, 11:39 AM

Post #22 of 31 (1216 views)

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Re: [johanson] Not for everybody??

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And gracias to you as well! Ah the Skagit Valley is wonderful - I only pray we don't pave it over for hideous mini-malls! (Another reason I'm looking to move is the unchecked development here).

It does sound warmer than here, but Seattle weather is changing for the hotter I've noticed over the many years I've lived here.

Would you mind my asking if you rent or own? I would probably rent initially, but would welcome any advice as to "realtors" or agents.

Gracias again!

Jean

Jul 10, 2003, 1:46 PM

Post #23 of 31 (1202 views)

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Re: [Jilian] Not for everybody??

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I come from hot humid Toronto, not to mention freezing cold Toronto.

The hot season here in April/May is HOT!! But not anything that I can't deal with. I don't find I need air-conditioning and do most of my chores by 11 a.m. If you are in a north-south house you can get wonderful breezes. Ceiling fans and floor fans fill in the gaps. Just when you think you can't take the heat anymore, the rains come. The humidity of the rainy months is nothing compared to Toronto. I find it quite comfortable with wonderful breezes in the afternoon and great lightening and thunderstorms at night; the likes of which I have never seen so intense.

The cold months...well I just sit there and think of 6 feet of snow in Toronto and put on some socks, slippers, track pants and sweatshirt and just smile.

There is nothing like walking down the street in the middle of January in shorts and a t-shirt, with the sun beaming down on you and thinking of all those people back up north.

National Geographic rated the weather here as the second best in the world.
Retirement Communities
http://www.retirecommunities.com

Jilian

Jul 10, 2003, 2:49 PM

Post #24 of 31 (1192 views)

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Re: [Tuatha_de_Danann] Not for everybody??

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I am so grateful for all of these quick responses - makes me feel good about the area already. Doesn't sound like anything I can't handle. And I LOVE thunder and lightening storms - we don't get them much in this part of the world and when we do the entire city turns out to watch.

Besides, there is no such thing as "perfect" and second best in the world ain't bad ;-)

johanson

Jul 10, 2003, 4:48 PM

Post #25 of 31 (1175 views)

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Re: [Jilian] Not for everybody??

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You asked whether I own or rent. I made a dumb move and immediately bought without having rented as everyone should.

I was lucky. I'm happy. But I strongly recommend you move more slowly than I did.

Pete

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