Mexico Connect
Forums > Areas > Jalisco's Lake Chapala Region
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All


Villa de RQ

Sep 3, 2003, 8:25 AM

Post #1 of 32 (1269 views)

Shortcut

    

Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  | Private Reply
Interesting article in todays WSJ concerning Lake water levels and effect on Lakeside.



Kip


Sep 3, 2003, 12:32 PM

Post #2 of 32 (1223 views)

Shortcut

     Post deleted by jennifer rose | Private Reply
 


Bubba

Sep 3, 2003, 2:15 PM

Post #3 of 32 (1207 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [Kip] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  |
Kip:

You can't read the article on the on-line version of the WSJ unless you are a subscriber. Bubba is a subscriber and pulled up the article in question and read it on your behalf but, of course, the article's meaning is subject to Bubba's interpretation.

The article can be summarized as follows:

The lake has receded significantly over the past decade or so and that problem has been detrimental to the local economy including a decline in (Gringo) property values and there are many demands on the Rio Lerma which feeds the lake and there are complex political problems including the many farmers along the Lerma and the huge city of Guadalajara, etc., etc., etc. (Yawn!)

In other words, nothing new. A rehash of doom and gloom which reminds me of the pronouncement that Escambia Bay adjacent to Pensacola was a dead sea in the 1960s because of chemical pollution. Today it is alive and well.

The WSJ reporter's assertions of awful things occuring or to be anticipated including:

A 5% decline in property values

Hotter weather

80% of the lake water gone,

were all fed to him/her by uninformed locals with nothing better to do than sit around and grouse because misery loves company.

Here is what I think:

If that lake gets 80% more water than it has today, I will be able to cruise in my motorboat to Guadalajara for dinner.

Nobody here knows what real estate is selling for because sales prices in the area are not made public. Therefore, people are shining the WSJ reported on when they say property values are declining. This is a complex real estate market because, (a) you must pay cash which limits the market and (b) most sellers in the gringo market are retired and, therefore, not under pressure to accept low ball offers because of compelling financial burdens. Therefore, they are less flexible in the short run on pricing.

You are from Mississippi. You will laugh your butt off when you hear people around Lake Chapala talk about heat or cold. I sentence them to one week in Mississippi or Texas in August or September or February and they will be thanking God for their return to this beautiful place. At its hottest and coldest it is sublime and I, as a California/Alabamian know this unequivocally. If that lake totally disappears, the climate here will still be terrific. And there will be many more truck farms across the horizon where you can pick up some sweet corn.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Sep 3, 2003, 2:20 PM)


Kip


Sep 3, 2003, 2:35 PM

Post #4 of 32 (1199 views)

Shortcut

     Post deleted by jennifer rose | Private Reply
 


FeelinGroovy

Sep 3, 2003, 4:27 PM

Post #5 of 32 (1185 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [Kip] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  | Private Reply
Here is the article, sans photos:

The Property Report

A Lake Shrinks, Threatening Mexican Region

By Jim Carlton
1,352 words
3 September 2003
The Wall Street Journal
B1
English
(Copyright (c) 2003, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.)

Ajijic, Mexico -- WHEN DENNIS and Ellen Allison retired to this quaint fishing village in 1992, their new three-bedroom home was only a block from the shores of Lake Chapala, the largest fresh-water body in Mexico.

The lake's edge is now about a mile away, having receded steadily during the couple's 11 years here. The newly exposed lake bottom is filling up with trees, brush and rows of corn planted by Mexican peasants who can be seen most days toiling in white straw hats where fish used to swim. "This isn't at all what we expected," says the 69-year-old Mr. Allison, who retired from an engineering job in Minneapolis.

Long considered a national treasure in Mexico, Lake Chapala in the state of Jalisco is shrinking so fast that many people here worry about damage to the environment and the Mexican economy. Since the 1970s, scientists say, the lake has lost about 80% of its water due to heavy development in central Mexico. The lake is fed primarily by the Rio Lerma, which meanders through several hundred miles of arid farmland and supports about 11 million people along its banks. Farmers in recent years have taken to diverting almost all of the river's flow to irrigation, often with outmoded techniques that experts say use up much more water than necessary. At the same time, the bustling manufacturing center of Guadalajara lies downstream and draws on the lake as its principal source of water.

The Mexican government, meanwhile, has done little to arrest the decline, partly because of political infighting, some officials say, but also because of the difficulties of addressing the region's cyclical droughts, which have been exacerbated by rapid population growth.

With the lake now less 16 feet at its deepest, or about half its depth when the decline began in 1977, the shrinkage is affecting the local economy. Many U.S. and Canadian retirees who have settled here report their home values have declined as much as 5% in the past three years. Before that, home values were mostly rising, as some 10,000 U.S. and Canadian expatriates crowded along the shores in recent decades to take advantage of Mexico's lower cost of living and a mild climate that the lake helped create.

The homeowners attribute the falloff in values mainly to the lake's decline, which not only detracts from the scenery but also makes the region hotter. "If the lake goes this will not be a nice place to live," says 68-year-old Joe De Leon, a retiree from Port Arthur, Texas. He adds that his wife is already having to give up her year-round gardening hobby because temperatures have climbed well past 90 degrees on many days when they used to hover more comfortably in the low 80s.

Since spending by the expatriates generates some $200 million annually, a fall in Lake Chapala's popularity could crimp an important revenue source in an otherwise impoverished region.

Meanwhile, economists say that nearby Guadalajara soon may be unable to keep supplying enough water to all the factories that have set up shop here in recent years. Already, the city of nearly four million has imposed water restrictions on certain neighborhoods because demand for water has outstripped supply by almost 40%. The population, which has jumped by nearly a million in the past decade, continues to expand.

"The low level of Chapala is the reason we are short of water," says Jose Macias, a local state water manager. He adds that a dam is being planned on a nearby river to help give Guadalajara another source of water.

Lake Chapala's plight has aroused international concern. Last year, the United Nations agreed to consider including the lake on its list of ecological places most critically endangered, an act that would make it eligible for international loan assistance as a World Heritage Site. A decision is expected in the coming year. The Living Lakes network, an association of groups coordinated by the Global Nature Fund in Radolfzell, Germany, also is considering adding Lake Chapala to its network of lakes world-wide that are either drying up or threatened by development. A decision is expected soon, which could pave the way for more global funds to help reverse the lake's decline.

Mexican officials first began noticing a problem in Lake Chapala in the early 1980s, when the lake's level plunged after a severe drought. Although the lake historically has risen and fallen with rain cycles, this time it didn't rebound when monsoons returned.

Needing outside technical help, the federal government called in scientists from Baylor University in Texas. Owen Lind, a Baylor biologist and head of a team that specializes in studying shallow lakes like Chapala, began flying down every few weeks to sample the water to see what impact the drop-off was having on its quality. His tests confirmed what some local fishermen suspected because of their declining catches: The lake was becoming a dead zone for marine life. The shallower water was becoming too muddy to produce enough algae for all the fish to eat. Meanwhile, pollution has been pouring in from farms, factories and cities upstream, according to Jose De Jesus Gonzalez, director of water research at the University of Guadalajara.

On a recent visit, Dr. Lind found little progress in curbing the pollution, despite the fact the Mexican government has taken steps such as constructing several new sewage-treatment plants in the area. Along the Rio Lerma outside the sleepy pueblo of La Piedad, for instance, Dr. Lind and his wife, Laura Davalos-Lind, another Baylor biologist, led a vanload of Baylor scientists to a new plant that workers said hadn't been functional the prior eight days because of technical problems.

"Maybe [later this month] it will be working," said one worker, in knee-high rubber boots, who declined to give his name. He said raw sewage was pouring into the river in the interim.

Although numerous scientific meetings have been convened to review Lake Chapala's decline, the Mexican government has been slow to take actions to stop it. The state of Jalisco where most of Lake Chapala sits managed to persuade five other states upstream to agree in 1992 that more river water should be diverted to the lake. But Mexico's National Water Commission, which sets usage in the river and pledged its cooperation at the time, Jalisco officials say, didn't begin issuing dam releases on the river to feed the lake until 1999. It has done so only a few times since.

Jalisco officials blame the delay on the fact their state is dominated by the National Action Party, while the federal government until recently was controlled by the rival Institutional Revolutionary Party. "This shouldn't be about politics, but it has been," says Armando Morales, a spokesman for Jalisco's state water commission.

Federal water officials deny they agreed to any special set-aside for Lake Chapala, and add they had to wait until rains could refill a dam sufficiently to release more water out of it. They also attribute the lake's decline more to naturally occurring drought than man-made factors. The region has been locked in 10-year dry spell.

"We hope to be starting a wet cycle now," National Water Commission spokesman Eugenio Garcia said as a monsoonal storm darkened the sky outside his Guadalajara office. He adds the government is overseeing plans to restore the lake to a healthy level by 2010, such as by getting farmers to use more-efficient irrigation practices.

Critics are skeptical, and say unless something happens soon the lake is in danger of becoming uninhabitable for most fish in as little as five years. Already, several species have been essentially wiped out, including a whitefish famed for its delicate taste. "Time is awfully close to running out," says Dr. Lind as he guides his van past newly dug farms along the exposed lake bottom.

Document j000000020030903dz930001f


© 2003 Dow Jones Reuters Business Interactive LLC (trading as Factiva). All rights reserved.
Libby



Kip


Sep 3, 2003, 4:46 PM

Post #6 of 32 (1182 views)

Shortcut

     Post deleted by jennifer rose | Private Reply
 


Jean

Sep 3, 2003, 5:00 PM

Post #7 of 32 (1176 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [Kip] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  | Private Reply
How anyone can read that and just brush it off as drivel is beyond me.

Read it again folks and think twice about not only the enviromental damage but the effects on the health of all who live in this area. We are getting deformed fish and wildlife and there is a higher incidence of seizures in Mexican children here. Unfortunately there is no "health" study to find out exactly what the effects on the population will be as the lake dries and that polluted sand blows into the air.
Retirement Communities
http://www.retirecommunities.com


Kip


Sep 3, 2003, 5:10 PM

Post #8 of 32 (1174 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [Tuatha_de_Danann] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  | Private Reply
I think the point was, that this is pretty much the same information that everyone has already heard about.
kip


johanson


Sep 3, 2003, 5:24 PM

Post #9 of 32 (1171 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [Tuatha_de_Danann] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  | Private Reply
And now a little bit of good news. Last year for the first time in many years the water level at the end of the rainy season, was slightly higher than the year before. It was still way, way, way too low.

And according to an email I got from a Save the Lakes Banker, I shall no mention her name, who has worked many long hours to help save the lake, she said she actually had a complaint from an acquaintance who complained that the water level was so much higher this year, that his walking trail was covered. I have no idea whether we are talking 2 cm or 12 inches. (what is it 15 feet low?)

Yes apparently the water level is a little bit higher again this year than last year for the second year in a row, however. I understand that even with the this improvement that the lake is only slightly more than at 25% capacity.

Don't get me wrong, the Lake is a long way from being saved, but just maybe the very hard work of some individuals and with a little extra rain lately, the lake level is actually improving. With all of your help, maybe we can make it three years in a row


Bubba

Sep 3, 2003, 7:39 PM

Post #10 of 32 (1149 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [johanson] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  |
What I was trying to say is that the WSJ was totally out of its depth in reporting a news story of which it has no knowledge.

I detest this. It reminds me of the expected cheering crowds of Iraqi citizens welcoming the arrogant and presumptuous Wolfewitz.

These WSJ people come down here and posit an argument which has no basis in fact because their reporter talks to a few expat retirees who have no idea of what they speak and are in a bad mood.

Facile and embarassing.

The lake thing is a fight between the values of farmers trying to grow corn to eke out a living and shallow gringos looking for water upon which to gaze.

If, in fact, it becomes warmer here, that's good because it was damn cold last winter.

Plus, as Arbon seems to know intuitively, that lake destoyed my daily walking path.


Jerry@Ajijic

Sep 3, 2003, 9:13 PM

Post #11 of 32 (1134 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [Bubba] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  | Private Reply
Bubba, I think the WSJ did a pretty good job. They talked to people who know what they are talking about. One, Dr. Joe de Leon was vice president of Amigos Del Lago for a number of years and is very familiar with the lake. It is not a joking matter. The lake is more important to the people of GDL as their main water supply than it is to the gringos. Generally the gringos can leave the area and GDL residents generally are stuck here, water or no water. The lake is not doomed but does need help. For too many years people have been saying there is not problem. As long as people refuse to see that the lake does need help, not for the gringos but for the people of Jalisco, the sooner it can get on the road to recovery.


Bubba

Sep 4, 2003, 10:45 AM

Post #12 of 32 (1096 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [Jerry@Ajijic] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  |
Jerry:

Had Jim Walton of the WSJ simply taken a few minutes to walk down the path to the lake from Dennis Allison's house, he would have discovered that the water level is 1/5th of a mile from Mr. Allison's house, not one mile as Mr. Allison represented. He would also have discerned that, before the lake receded, it was already 1/10th of a mile from his home which is not a significant drop in lake level over a ten year period.

The WSJ Section of Mural printed the same article praising Gringos for their contribution to Ajijic's welfare. Not one Mexican national was consulted. Typical U.S. chauvinism.

There are also many other misrepresentations in this article which indicate a reporter who was looking for a way to charge his trip to paradise to his expense account while appealing to an uninformed audience.

For instance:

The ridiculous temperature change thing. Get serious. Spend a summer in Mississippi or Texas.

The diminished housing value thing. (If you bought a house here when Mr. Allison did, you would have made a 300% profit. Try that in Des Moines.)

I will be please to rebut other assertions upon request.


bthunder

Sep 4, 2003, 11:21 AM

Post #13 of 32 (1081 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [Bubba] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  | Private Reply
Bubba, what about the photos of the pier? A picture is worth .....
Tracie

*******
Caminante, no hay camino.
Se hace camino al andar.
*******


Bubba

Sep 4, 2003, 1:08 PM

Post #14 of 32 (1064 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [bthunder] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  |
bthunder:

That photo of the lake over the Chapala pier was taken during a period that was an aberration. At the time, there was serious flooding which was certainly not a good thing.

Try to understand the nature of the notion that the "lake bed" is only 20% full. Who will build the ark when it is 100% full?

My neighbor, who lives on the lake next to the interviewee faux expert misleading you into thinking the lake (the water level of which has receded at most 1/10th a mile in ten years) is a mile away, has lived here- on the lake - about twenty years and tells me that this ebbing and flowing of the lake is the norm. Anyone living, as did we, in a seasonal rain climate (California) knows that there are weather cycles and that bodies of water grow and recede naturally. Ten years is as to nothing in one of these cycles.

Furthermore, my realtor friends who have been here for many years and have pissed and moaned in times of crisis, inform me that the real estate market is hot and strong. The strongest it has been since the 9/11 debacle. Who is the "expert" the WSJ inept reporter quotes as saying that real estate values are down 5%? Bullshit!

And, it's too hot to garden!!???!! Give me a break. In five years you won't be able to afford this place and you can grow your garden in Moline.

Your loss!


Bubba

Sep 4, 2003, 3:03 PM

Post #15 of 32 (1041 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [Bubba] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  |
Jerry:

I must say one more thing.

This is not a criticism of Joe De Leon who I think is a nice guy but, remember, that all he said was that it was getting hotter in his estimation. Nothing could be more subjective than that.

It gets relatively hot here for about six to eight weeks a year from about mid-April to mid-June. Hot means that it sometimes gets into the mid-90s but with low humidity. This does not qualify as hot in most of the United States. The summer here, once the rain starts, is cool and pleasant. Don't forget that we are at 5,000 feet and have a wonderful, fresh sub-tropical climate. Do not let these complainers discourage you from moving here.

Those of you reading these threads from the U.S. simply cannot understand that when locals talk about temperature extremes, they are misleading you.

If you do not like this place then you do not like any place


johanson


Sep 4, 2003, 3:20 PM

Post #16 of 32 (1036 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [Bubba] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  | Private Reply
Bubba How dare you say 95 F is not hot. :) (bubba knows I am only kidding) Anything above 85 sends many of us civilized northerners inside trying to find air conditioners.

Now on a more serious matter, you wrote; "The lake thing is a fight between the values of farmers trying to grow corn to eke out a living and shallow gringos looking for water upon which to gaze."


THIS IS A QUESTION, not a challenge, What did the lake report say, something like 70% of the water drawn from the Lerma goes to irrigation? Did it not also say that the irrigation methods are very primitive?

Perhaps we(they or whomever) could spend some of our/their efforts teaching better irrigation techniques. If my memory serves me right, by the use of different strains of plants and by using more advanced irrigation techniques, one could decrease the amount of irrigation used by more than 50%. What am I missing here? This seems like such a productive solution. I know such policies have worked well in Africa, and for that matter in Seattle where sometimes there are water shortages, when it gets really hot, you know over 75 F

I hope the experts are right when they say through proper allocation and management of this scarce resource, there should be enough for all except during periods of extreme drought.



PS For you heat freaks, Seattle which is south of me recently broke a record when the temperature hit more than 70 now for 59 days in a row, the previous record was 49 days. Now that's hot :) Luckily I'm in the foot hills North of Seattle where the temperatures are usually 5 degrees cooler, and we usually get more than 100 inches of rain per year. (Now you guys know why we come South for the winter- 8 months long here)


Bubba

Sep 4, 2003, 3:50 PM

Post #17 of 32 (1029 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [johanson] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  |
You know, Pete, your posts are always thoughtful and I appreciate that fact but mi mujere is insisting that we go see Antwone Fisher here in Ajijc before the movies change tomorrow. Another reason to move to this burg. First run movies.

This is a touchy issue. We are told that Guanajuato farmers use inefficient irrigation methods so, if that is true, (a question not yet answered) how are they to be introduced to more efficient irrigation methods in a manner that does not presuppose gringo arrogance and, perhaps, stupidity?

Questions:

What is the capital outlay needed to reconfigure the fields for more efficient irrigation technology?

What are they growing and what do those crops contribute to the Mexican GDP?

Etc, etc, ad nausem but, in typical gringo fashion, I must go the Ajijic movie palace in time to see this Antwone Fisher thing and buy my faux buttered popcorn and coke and forget that my Mexican friends are lucky if they have some frijoles and a couple of tortillas to see them through the evening. Pardon the melodrama but there seems to be some imbalance here.


juan david


Sep 6, 2003, 6:25 AM

Post #18 of 32 (924 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [Bubba] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  | Private Reply
Now why would anyone over the age of thirty take what they read in the papers as gospel. The WSJ is among the elite and it goes down hill fast from there. I read our local Ottawa rag yesterday and the only things worse than the reporting were the campaign statements from opposing politicians. They must assume that we are morons. Well, in my case they might be right from time to time....according to mi esposa!
" let sleeping dogs lie"


Bubba

Sep 6, 2003, 11:24 AM

Post #19 of 32 (900 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [ian] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  |
Ian:

I must tell you that the reason I become so vocal on this issue is that there are people who read this forum who are uninformed about our beautiful little town and do take a reputable newspaper such as the WSJ seriously. They need to know when reporters for such periodicals are lazy and do sloppy work. These people hurt others by quoting people as experts they do not know.

My father was the mayor in my small Alabama town in the early 1960s and a most articulate man. Time Magazine sent a reporter down to find some local white redneck cracker to humiliate and interviewed my father at length for days about racial problems in that lovely but troubled village. My father, who was something of a social liberal in the context of South Alabama circa 1960 and had the support of the local African American community, blew the New York reporter's socks off with his contradictory political positions. For that reason, my father's words never appeared in Time. Rather, the reporter went out to find others who would support his notion of what a white man in Alabama in those day should have said to support his preconceived ideas as to what an ignorant white Alabama Cracker should have said in response to leading questions from a New York reporter.

Fade forward. Lake Chapala circa 2003.

Assignment:

Go down there to Jalisco and report back to us about how the lake is dying and how terrible things are and how this absolutely unknown expert that nobody ever heard of is predicting the demise of the terribly polluted lake and then go back to New York so you can live in hell and put down a place you would give your left ball to live in and then move on to Iraq where you can follow Rummy around and marvel at progress there. etc., etc., etc.

Need I say more?


Bubba

Sep 6, 2003, 9:18 PM

Post #20 of 32 (865 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [berniegu] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  |
Are we boring you folks?

Does this controversial thread have no meaning to any of you?

The Wall Street Journal has a Mexican edition it prints weekly Wednesday as a supplement to Guadalajara's Mural newspaper and other mexican dailies. That supplement printed the same article on Lake Chapala in Spanish that was printed in the regular edition in New York and that article was filled with misrepresentations regarding the lake and the community. Does anybody care that our community is being maligned by ignorant and careless gringo reporters for Norteano business journals too lazy to check their facts before printing alarmist screeds based on undocumented assertions by uninformed locals?

Ignore this problem at your peril.


sandykayak


Sep 7, 2003, 7:24 AM

Post #21 of 32 (838 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [Bubba] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  | Private Reply
As a relative newbie to the Lakeside-as-a-possible-retirement-place and with only a few days in the area under my belt, I'd like to post my impressions.

First of all, I still have a hard time with the "how cheap it is (supposedly) to live in Mexico" and the what appear to me really high prices of property in what is, after all, a quaint Mexican village."

Obviously, the gringos came in and pushed all the prices up (this also happened in Key West and now they have to bus hotel etc. workers in cos they can no longer afford to live near there).

I recently heard of the faultline that runs along the north shore and with the considerable concern about what the area will be like (and the depreciation of their property) should Chapala shrink even more or dry up, it would seem to me that these factors should keep property prices in check. Plus there are quite a number of new residential developments being built.

If I hadn't driven by Lake Owens (I think it was that one) in California a couple of years ago, I would have pooh-poohed the notion that a lake could actually dry up. I still recall my feeling of "oh my gosh" (kinda like the scene of a toppled Lady Liberty at the end of the first Planet of the Apes movie). It was like a huge crater.

Now, I was told by an Ajijic resident who was told by a realtor that at any one time (or at least at the time I was there - July '03) there were approximately 600 properties for sale in the area, yet only about six closings are actually made in a month. Does this sound true?
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque


Bubba

Sep 7, 2003, 10:47 AM

Post #22 of 32 (821 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [sandykayak] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  |
Sandykayak:

As far as I know, nobody said Ajijic was cheap. You will pay between $200,000 and $300,000USD for a nice house here. For that same house, you would pay at least $1,200,000USD in the San Francisco Bay Area. Everything is relative.

Drive over to the Roca Azul development near Jocotopec and you will pay about $50,000 - $80,000USD for a house similar to that expensive Ajijic place. Move to a town the size of Ajijic in the middle of nowhere in Jalisco and they will practically give you the house and, guess what? - there you are. What next?

Do not come down here to "invest" in real estate. Be prepared to live here until you croak if you buy a home here but, most of all understand that the reason houses don't sell fast here is that:

One must pay cash and many people don't necessarily have $200,000USD sitting around in the bank looking for a place to go.

Most of the gringos selling real estate here are retired and not compelled to sell. Consequently, they are not as flexible early on in the sales process as might be expected in a normal community.

Now, I know someone in West Ajijic who just bought a rather primitive home for $700USD. The roof (plastic sheeting) leaks. Lower your expectations and you will do well.

In five years, after the baby boomer demand spike, you will regret not having bought here in 2003 unless, of course, political unrest has changed the environment. That is another story.

One last thing. The lake may die but it will outlive all of those reading this thread. And the Owens Valley area of California is a marvelous place even without its lake.


sfmacaws


Sep 7, 2003, 8:12 PM

Post #23 of 32 (864 views)

Shortcut

     Post deleted by jennifer rose | Private Reply
 


Bubba

Sep 7, 2003, 8:53 PM

Post #24 of 32 (858 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [sfmacaws] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  |
You folks have just seen a perfect example of what is wrong with subjective analysis by amateurs of environmental degradation brought about by such phenomena as draining of lake basins. The Owens Valley is a high desert plain on the eastern side of the High Sierra in California which is adjacent to hundreds of miles of wasteland continuing on though Nevada and Utah and then on, after the Rockies, to the scrub plains Okie-From-Muscogee trailer park netherlands of the American Midwest.

Because of its place on the planet high above sea level,east of a colossal mountain range and a vast agricultural (Sacramento) valley which is itself next to a modest coastal mountain range abutting the Pacific Ocean, it is buffeted by constant winds and is as cold as a witch's ass in winter. This climatological fact has nothing to do with the amount of water that is or should be in the Owens Lake Basin that the city of L.A. drained long ago to feed the San Fernando Valley.

There are more experts hereabouts than there are people who know of what they speak. Think about that when you consider the future of Lake Chapala.

By the way. This Owens Valley is one beautiful, if desolate, place. If you don't like this region then you will like no place.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Sep 7, 2003, 9:08 PM)


Bubba

Sep 7, 2003, 9:25 PM

Post #25 of 32 (855 views)

Shortcut

    

Re: [Bubba] Lake Chapala/Wall Sreet Journal

  |
By the way. Why do we have people commenting on phenomena in our lovely valley here in Jalisco regarding water resources who admit to having never been here. Let me put this in perspective.

Persimmon Creek near Greenville, Alabama has recently suffered because of an environmental degradation brought about by an increase in the number of Water Mocassins since Wambats, who eat Water Mocassin eggs voraciously have been severely reduced by the effluent created by the new Mercedes plant in nearby Lincoln by aluminum discharges in the Alabama River which has also killed all of the Spanish Moss within a 300 mile radius.

Hello!
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 
Search for (advanced search) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.4