Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

As a result of the incidents in Lakeside this past week, are any of you thinking about moving NOB, or elsewhere In Mexico, or elswhere at all? Me, a tad nervous, do not like the cartels being in Chapala, but since I am not involved in drugs< I think I have nothing to fear at this point in time. For those of you that live here, what are your thoughts? For those of you contemplating a move to Lakeside what are your thoughts after this tough week? T.

Jan 17, 2011, 9:43 PM

Post #2 of 43 (3154 views)

Re: [T] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

Sounds like you're spreading more fear. Why are you asking these questions because of a random incident? What cartels are you talking about? This is how rumors without fact get started.

Jan 18, 2011, 6:10 AM

Post #3 of 43 (3105 views)

Re: [johninajijic] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

If the cartels are not involved in this area why are they trying to kill the Chief of police and have killed quite a few locals? The people arrested belonged to a spin off of the Valencia Brothers called La resistencia according to the papers.
Who do you think killed the teenager from Seis Esquinas in the last couple of weeks or the two young men from Ajijic that were found cut into pieces in September and so on and so forth.
Most of the local murders do not make the news and are kept quiet but there are plenty of them going on believe me.
The killing I am speaking about are no rumors, I saw the wake and the funerals.

Despite the bad news we have no plans to go north, we will die some day so just as well live in a place we like . When it is your time it is your time, it will come wether up North or here.

(This post was edited by Vichil on Jan 18, 2011, 6:13 AM)

gpkgto

Jan 18, 2011, 6:38 AM

Post #4 of 43 (3090 views)

Re: [T] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

The cartels are everywhere in Mexico and are spreading fast throughout the USA.

Kevin K

Jan 18, 2011, 11:46 AM

Post #5 of 43 (3026 views)

Re: [gpkgto] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

Personally I'm not panicking, but the tone of discussions, both among friends and on area web boards and in the newspapers, sure has changed from as recently as a year ago, when many were smugly saying "it can't happen here" and this stuff only occurs in border cities or maybe Morelia.

As someone already pointed out, what we hear about is doubtless just the tip of the iceberg. The numbers we do have on growth of narco crime, in just the past two years, are alarming to say the least:http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/14/mexico-drug-war-murders-map

(This post was edited by Kevin K on Jan 18, 2011, 11:48 AM)

Jan 18, 2011, 12:19 PM

Post #6 of 43 (3008 views)

Re: [T] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

Vichil - No one knows who killed the teenager in Seis Esquinas a couple weeks ago. My understanding is he was not involved in drugs and it was not drug related. It was a burglary for money because his parents left him money when they went to the States. This info from my Mexican friend.

You refer to other bodies in September, of which I know nothing about. Were they actually killed here or just dumped here, like all the other found bodies?

Jan 18, 2011, 12:25 PM

Post #7 of 43 (3007 views)

Re: [johninajijic] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

If asking questions is spreading fear, then I am guilty. If you call all that happened last week here in Lakeside "a random incident", you are out of touch with reality.

I ask because I know of people that are moving NOB as a result of this week's escalation resulting in one murder, The Chief of police in Chapala having his home blasted with fragmentation grenades, ten primarily young people being arrested in Chapala with a cache of weapons that would please the US Army and more bodies being found in Ixtluacan.

I guess there were "four random incidents" last week, which happen to be more than in any one year, in the six years I have lived here. T.

Jan 18, 2011, 12:30 PM

Post #8 of 43 (3005 views)

Re: [johninajijic] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

John, does it matter where the bodies came from? You have lived here longer than me and until this year I have never heard of bodies being dumped here at anywhere close to the numbers that we have seen this year. I understand that you own a very expensive home here and you want to protect its value, but reality is reality. T

chinagringo

Jan 18, 2011, 1:02 PM

Post #9 of 43 (2994 views)

Re: [T] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

Does a leopard change its spots? In this case "T" aka Zoey aka real estate agent has a history of stirring things up just for the sake of doing so. If you say navy, he will say pink and so on. Probably best ignored.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Jan 18, 2011, 1:31 PM

Post #10 of 43 (2987 views)

Re: [johninajijic] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

Your understanding is only one of the many versions. The way his body was mutilated and the way he was picked up is not consistent with a regular robbery.
The two young men found in September lived in Ajijic. One of them Pancho made keys at the little place by Torrito. He had just come to my house to redo all the keys with his boss.
Just because you do not know about it does not mean it is not happening.

Jan 18, 2011, 2:58 PM

Post #11 of 43 (2948 views)

Re: [Vichil] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

It seems that we have two kinds of expats here. Those that want to bury their heads in the sand and those that want to know what the hell is going on. I appreciate your posts. T

Jan 18, 2011, 8:33 PM

Post #12 of 43 (2871 views)

Re: [T] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

In Reply To

Yes, it matters where they came from since they were NOT killed here, only dumped here. If you're not involved with drugs no one is out to get you. Those dead people were all involved with drugs. Most NOB folks feel safer here than they did in the US. Because you know 1 or 2 people who are moving back, that doesn't mean they don't have other reasons to leave also.

chinagringo - Very well said. For once we agree, the poster "T" is just stirring things up. Who is T anyway and does he live here?

Jan 19, 2011, 6:08 AM

Post #13 of 43 (2818 views)

Re: [johninajijic] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

I hate to tell you this John these two kids were from here , lived and worked here, were kidnapped in Ajijic and were tortured and killed in a house in this area. I do not remember where their bodies were found .
Some bad things are happening to local kids which shows the cartels are now involved and fighting each other in this area.
This area is not different in this respect from the rest of Mexico so I am not sure why you are holding on to the idea we are in a special area.
The weather is great, you have a great house that will or will not sell in the short term but if you like it so much and feel so safe what difference does it make if people are moving back or not moving here.
People will do what people will do.
Enjoy your life here and do not worry about it.

Jan 19, 2011, 6:42 AM

Post #14 of 43 (2808 views)

Re: [Vichil] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

I am enjoying life here. Where did you get the idea that I'm concerned about these things? I'm not worried about anything nor am I ready to move back NOB. Where did you get the idea that my house is for sale? It is not.

Bad things that happen to local kids only shows they were involved in drugs and there are no cartels in this area. You seem to be a know it all.

(This post was edited by johninajijic on Jan 19, 2011, 6:43 AM)

bournemouth

Jan 19, 2011, 6:45 AM

Post #15 of 43 (2803 views)

Re: [johninajijic] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

John - I have to correct you I'm afraid. Vichil is very, very attuned to the local community and knows of what she speaks. If there are no cartels in this area, why then was the Chapala Police Chief's house attacked, why are they arresting cartel members etc. etc. I could wish it was the way you believe it to be but it's not anymore.

Jan 19, 2011, 7:08 AM

Post #16 of 43 (2789 views)

Re: [johninajijic] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

Thank you Bournemouth for your input.

John
I am not a" know it all" but I happen to have known the two young men who were killed, they were not involved in drugs . One of them was very proud of his little 3 year old and wanted to go to the States to make more money to support her but was afraid of the coyotes and did not have the nerve to cross. His boss is now going through a major depression. These nasty events are affecting everyone around them.
Show some compassion for the poor people who suffer from this war and stop assuming people are bad because they are caught in the cross fire .
Bad things can happen to good people even in this "perfect" town where the cartels have now moved in.

chinagringo

Jan 19, 2011, 8:15 AM

Post #17 of 43 (2757 views)

Re: [johninajijic] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

"there are no cartels in this area"

The use of "logic" or actually lack thereof in making this statement escapes me! Just how many signs and how much of the news does one have to absorb to refrain from making such an outrageous statement. Knowing that the poster is from MA, a similar statement that: none of the MOB boys lived in his neighborhood would draw a similar conclusion at least from myself. I don't think I would be in error if I stated that there are "cartel owned" homes on the north shore of Lake Chapala and with the amount of money they have at their disposal, there will probably be more. Maybe not in the exclusive enclave that John lives in but I would venture a guess that within a mile or two, there is a cartel owned property or business. No different than the mobs NOB, they don't have one singular business (drugs) but by their nature have branched into many ventures. Furthermore, I would be willing to bet that on more than one occasion, there have been diners with cartel connections sitting nearby during one of the "dining group" outings.

Living in denial doesn't work. Reality does!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Jan 19, 2011, 1:16 PM

Post #18 of 43 (2690 views)

Re: [Vichil] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

I respect what you have said on this thread very much. My question to you is why do you think these two young men were killed, if not for drug involvement? Random killings are very, very rare.

An aside on the same topic. Met with my attorney today who has lived in Ajijic since birth. Mexicans are nervous, also.

[Rolly edited this post to remove rumors and libelous statements]

Who in the hell knows the truth? None of us and those that do are less than transparent. And the frustration at not knowing what happened continues.

I am sorry that I started this thread and the direction that it has taken and hope that it will be locked, as it is not a service to anyone. T

(This post was edited by Rolly on Jan 19, 2011, 1:40 PM)

Jan 19, 2011, 2:17 PM

Post #19 of 43 (2653 views)

Re: [T] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

They were not involved with drugs but members of the family of one of them were. The mother of the family is in jail for selling drugs. One daughter is a drug dealer who owed money and went in hiding.
The son who was killed was not involved in the mess and neither was his friend who came to visit the daughter he had with another daughter.
The drug dealers capture the brother who was clean and the ex- boy friend to torture them and find out were the morosa sister was.
It is the perfect example of two kids who were clean but were punished for the sins of a member of the family. It is a very sad story that is repeated many times unfortunately.

The other two young men were opportunistic kids who were in a survival mode. Now, one or both of them have killed and both will probably be convicted of robbery and a few other things. Keep in mind that they probably will be on the street again in our life time.

Whether people did not denounce them because they were not clean themselves or were afraid of seeing them again does not make much difference.
The sex angle, is one way to get to people and having them feel sorry for you is another way. Who knows what the truth is in these cases but whatever it is the two kids are bad seeds and probaly victims themselves and will be on the street again eventually. This is why the whole scene is so sad and dangerous for everyone.

I have not heard any rumors about the Chief of Police as I refuse to hear anything about the police in general. It is not a healthy subject and one we can do absolutely nothing about.
The police anywhere in Mexico is in an impossible situation and unless the system changes nothing will change. We will never know what is really going on. I do not need to know anything, what I already know is depressing enough.
I will bury my head in the sand too on this one.

Jan 19, 2011, 3:20 PM

Post #20 of 43 (2631 views)

Re: [bournemouth] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

She may be atuned to the Community as you say, but she's wrong on this. The Chapala Police Cheifs house was attacked in retaliation because he arrested several cartel members including getting a cache of weapons and drugs. I repeat there is no cartel at Lakeside. They drive in from other areas.

(This post was edited by johninajijic on Jan 19, 2011, 3:28 PM)

Jan 19, 2011, 3:24 PM

Post #21 of 43 (2627 views)

Re: [Vichil] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

(This post was edited by johninajijic on Jan 19, 2011, 3:34 PM)

Jan 19, 2011, 3:33 PM

Post #22 of 43 (2615 views)

Re: [Vichil] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

That's a horror of a story. Thank you for your explanation.

(This post was edited by johninajijic on Jan 19, 2011, 3:40 PM)

tonyburton

Jan 19, 2011, 3:36 PM

Post #23 of 43 (2609 views)

Re: [johninajijic] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

"Innocent people don't get killed unless they're involved with drugs."
The polite term for this sentence is "garbage!" Sadly, as in any country, many innocent people ARE killed as a result of being the wrong place at the wrong time, and for absolutely no fault of their own.

chinagringo

Jan 19, 2011, 3:37 PM

Post #24 of 43 (2606 views)

Re: [johninajijic] Anybody thinking about moving NOB?

| Private Reply

You may wish to check your facts. If you are referring to the arrest of the 10 cartel members along with the cache of weapons, all reports that I have read indicate that event happened after the grenade attack. I would suggest a large dirt shovel and maybe even a backhoe to dig your head out of the sand. There are and have been cartels at, in and around the Lakeside area for quite some time! In fact, I doubt that you could find any community, town, village or city anywhere in MX without someone attached to a cartel. The same as you could not find a community, town or city NOB totally without someone involved in some aspect of criminal activity.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

DavidHF

Jan 19, 2011, 3:39 PM

Post #25 of 43 (2604 views)