Forums > Areas > Central Pacific Region

kmetzger

Jun 25, 2008, 4:41 PM

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Bad day in beautiful Mexico

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I've lived in Guadalajara for eleven years now and have grown to love the country and its people. I've had only two bad encounters with the police. One incident was a year ago when I was robbed by two of them on a desolate road:

http://mexconnected.com/perl/foros/gforum.cgi?post=109776;search_string=robbed%20by%20the%20police;#109776

and the other incident happened this morning.

This morning I walked into a Guadalajara pharmacy to pick up some ear drops to relieve my hearing problem in one ear (wax build-up). I walked past what I thought was a store guard (he turned out to be a policeman) holding a huge shotgun pointed in my direction. When I got to the counter I felt someone grab me and turned around to see it was the policeman. He pulled me away from the counter and started telling me something but I couldn't understand him partly because of the hearing problem. I figured he suspected me of shop-lifting, so I emptied my pockets on the floor. He kept telling me something I couldn't understand so I told him "no hablo espanol bien". When he persisted, I finally shouted at him.
He then grabbed me by the back of my shirt and started forcefully pushing me outside. He pushed me across the street and then called for back-up. A police car appeared and I was surrounded. I finally understood that they were sure I had been smoking mota – marijuana. I'm 62-years old and the last time I smoked pot a couple of times was thirty years ago. They smelled my fingers and again told me to remove everything from my pockets. I told them that I smoke a pipe and that they might have smelled pipe tobacco.

I finally convinced one officer to come to my car and look at my pipe and tobacco. I had given him my Mexican driver's license, but he wanted to see my passport. I told them I kept it at home. (Seven years ago my car was stolen and my passport was in the glove compartment. When I applied for a new one the US consulate officer asked me why I had kept my passport in the car). Again and again he asked me for my passport and I again and again I told him I kept it at home. He said, "wrong answer, you're supposed to carry it with you." After about a half hour I was permitted to leave.

I'd like to know if anyone can tell me if the arrest procedures are different here in Mexico. Can a US cop arrest someone on suspicion he's been smoking marijuana? Can Mexican police legally do so? Do you think this incident is related to the government's crack-down on drug gangs, i.e. that the police are being encouraged to be more aggressive?

And another question: I know the police aren't allowed to ask for immigration papers unless an INM official is present, but what about US passports?

Kim

(This post was edited by kmetzger on Jun 25, 2008, 4:42 PM)

jerezano

Jun 25, 2008, 8:37 PM

Post #2 of 10 (1168 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] Bad day in beautiful Mexico

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Hello,

What a bad story. And yes, things like this happen too often to people in Mexico. Usually Mexican citizens. Bad cops are plentiful and even the good cops once they are suspicious of someone turn into power mad beasts too often.

Now as to your last question on Passport. Unfortunately we are supposed to carry them on our person at all times in a foreign country. What many of us do is carry a copy. Not me, like you I don't carry anything. Nor do I carry my FM3 which is also supposed to be on my person at all times.

My understanding is that anyone can ask to see your passport. Not all people have the right to ask, but yes local authorities of all types have that right. The only thing they are not allowed to do is to take it and keep it without your permission. That document belongs to the US Government. You are only its custodian. If taken away from you without your permissiont that creates an International Incident between counties. Now if you are put in jail etc, that is another matter. All your possesions are being held for you in your name by the authorities who will be required to produce the passport post haste on demand from a US State dept official. If released from custody, all your possesions and that Passport must be returned to you. Otherwise....

And I think you are incorrect. I am sure that Police can ask to see your FM3 at any time, whether or not there is an Immigration official present. That document, which also belongs to the Mexican Government with you as a custodian, is proof of your identity and also proof of your permit to remain here as a foreigner. As such it should be open to inspection by any and all local authorities. Again, they have no right to take and hold that document without your permission.

You can of course complain about this treatment to the local Human Rights Commission and also to the Department of Tourism. If you were able to get the name and badge number of the policeman who did it, he will probably receive a reprimand and a good dressing down. If not, then forget and forgive. That cop had a fight with his wife that morning.

jerezano.

(This post was edited by jerezano on Jun 25, 2008, 8:46 PM)

MazDee

Jun 25, 2008, 10:13 PM

Post #3 of 10 (1156 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Bad day in beautiful Mexico

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So sorry this happened to you Kim. I didn't think something like this could happen to a 62 year old expat visiting a farmacia! This report and Jerezano's response are eye-openers for me. I travel all around México and never carry my passport or FM3. I always thought that my Mexican driver's license was good enough ID. Obviously I was wrong.

bournemouth

Jun 26, 2008, 6:56 AM

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Re: [jerezano] Bad day in beautiful Mexico

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Jerezano - in the latest edition of the Guadalajara Reporter there is an interview with the new head of the Immigration Office in Guadalajara. He says the police may only see your FM3 if there is an official of the Immigration Office present. The police have to call for one to come to the location. That is the law - however, in practice I can't see an official coming or the police waiting for one to come.

Rosalinemg

Jun 28, 2008, 11:07 AM

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Re: [MazDee] Bad day in beautiful Mexico

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Like you I never carry any of my official documents either. I have always been afraid to do so because they are, to me, things that I hold dear. I have never been asked for them except on accasions when I knew, in advance, that I would be asked. I carry a Mexican drivers licence and at the bank, etc. this has always been suficient for ID. Maybe there is a possibility that I may need to produce them, as under the circumstances posted here, but I think I will take my changes and still leave them in my lock-box at home.

Rolly

Jun 28, 2008, 11:15 AM

Post #6 of 10 (1071 views)

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Re: [Rosalinemg] Bad day in beautiful Mexico

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Around town in my pickup, I carry copies of my passport, FM3 and the latest FM3 renewal letter. When I go out of town, I take the originals. I have never been asked for them.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
This is a good time to be living in Mexico.
A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.

NEOhio1

Jun 28, 2008, 10:39 PM

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Re: [Rolly] Bad day in beautiful Mexico

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I have multiple copies of those items in my cars with the car paper copies. I do take the originals if going very far from home. I figure for driving within a days dive I can have the originas brought to us for lessmoney than the hassle of replacing orginals should they be stolen from the car. The papers are hidden the cars, one in and insert withinthe trunk and the others under the carpet in the back seat. We know too many people who have had originals stolen from the glove box.

I am all for copies.

ken_in_dfw

Jun 29, 2008, 12:44 PM

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Re: [NEOhio1] Bad day in beautiful Mexico

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OK, this is where my inexperience in living in Mexico shows, I guess. But I am completely clueless as to what is the value of a US passport and FM3 papers to a thief who, presumably, is a Mexican citizen. Unless you've got a rash of undocumented gringos buying and selling papers on the black market.

OK - I guess there could be some identity theft. But still, if I were a thief, I think I would be more interested in cash first, credit cards second, and maybe a driver's license third.

I don't doubt what you're saying, NEOhio1, I just am mystified as to the motivation. Can someone educate me on this? Thanks!

"Respect for the rights of others is peace."
Benito Juarez

NEOhio1

Jun 29, 2008, 1:34 PM

Post #9 of 10 (989 views)

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Re: [kenhjr] Bad day in beautiful Mexico

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Last year in crossing at Piedras Negras I had all of our US passports and appropriate papers, originals, in a folder because we had travelled far from home and had pick our 20 year old up in San Antonio. When we arrived at the aduana to change our car sticker - luckily in this instance on the way back not on the way out - I noticed after we drove away and were 3 minutes down the road that the folder seemed "light"-the US passports were gone. I had taken the folder in the building and set it on the counter and left itunattended while we went out to the car to remove the sticker. My bad. We returned but nada. The aduana supervisor was sympathetic but really could have cared less. Fortunately I had all our birth certificates with us. We used those to enter and get papers.

Upon returning to Ajijic I called the US Consulate to report them gone and to get info on how to get them replaced. They ran the passport numbers thru the computer system and found they had been used within the weekend. The consulate told me that they probably had been sold with hours of our "losing" them. That the photos might have been relaced but it was more likely that the people who bought the passport were selected by how much they resembled us. Those passports had a monetary value, all with the same last name and issued at the same time from the same place for a male aged 59, a female 52 and a female 20, meant, according to the consulate fellow, that the US side would not look too closely- and probably brought over $10,000 US, at least. Because they were taken on a Saturday morning and the Guad Consulate didn't put the stop on them until Monday morning there was 48 hours available to use them.

As for drivers licenses to accompany the passports if asked - easily counterfeited.

So the motivation was cash and a good chance at US entrance.

ken_in_dfw

Jun 29, 2008, 1:47 PM

Post #10 of 10 (984 views)

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Re: [NEOhio1] Bad day in beautiful Mexico

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Wow! Thanks for that enlightenment. Obviously, I had given the US Customs folks WAAAY more credit than they deserved. I thought that passports are always swiped through electronic readers and a verification made on the spot. Clearly not.

Holy frijoles, you learn something new every day.

"Respect for the rights of others is peace."
Benito Juarez