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Carol Schmidt


Feb 3, 2004, 5:58 PM

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Heard there are less than 50 gringos living in Guanajuato

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A good friend renewing her FM3 met an ex-pat who actually lives in Guanajuato and she asked how many gringos lived there. The woman said less than 50. This friend had also heard the same number earlier. So that may be why we don't hear from anyone living in Guanajuato on this forum!

My well-traveled friend thinks there are even fewer living in Leon, and probably a couple hundred living in Queretero. These are all just estimates since no one keeps any such figures--not all gringos even register with the U.S. consulate here in San Miguel so even local estimates are only guesses.

The figures I hear for ex-pats in SMA range from 10,000 in a recent Washington Post travel section article written by a travel writer, not always the best researched kind of articles (I know, I was once a travel writer), down to 2,500.

My own guess is it's closer to 5,000, with another couple thousand coming in and out of town at any one time for periods of up to six months.

SMA itself seems to have no definite population statistics, with perhaps 60,000 to 70,000 living within the actual city and, depending on how far you extend the countryside, something like 100,000 to 125,000 total.

Carol Schmidt



gpk

Feb 4, 2004, 3:12 PM

Post #2 of 10 (905 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Heard there are less than 50 gringos living in Guanajuato

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Leon has more than 50--there's a group there that meets monthly, has holiday parties (4th of July, etc.). The son of one of these Leon gringos is a diputado in the federal legislature. I think there are also more than 50 in Guanajuato "capital", as the Mexicans call it. To Mexicans (my friends, anyway), gringo means anyone from the USA, Canada or Europe. The gringos outside of San Miguel are less obvious because most of them/us are more integrated into Mexican life--through marriage, work or choice. San Miguel is definitely the place to be in this region if you need or want a large, gringo population to go with your Mexican life--it's just a personal choice.


Carol Schmidt


Feb 5, 2004, 11:19 AM

Post #3 of 10 (871 views)

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Re: [gpk] Heard there are less than 50 gringos living in Guanajuato

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Thanks for the information. I appreciate the distinction between SMA's largely separate gringo population, which can be almost totally self-contained if you want it to be, and that of the communities you mention where gringos are intimately interlinked with the Mexican population.

That was what I had in mind when I chose to move to Mexico but find that is much harder to achieve than to live mostly within our gringo population. It could be a matter of numbers--if you have a very large choice of places to go, people to meet, it is much easier to stick with what and who is comfortable instead of having to make a deliberate effort to integrate more.

If we'd somehow picked a place where few spoke English and everything was in Spanish and geared to Mexicans, we'd have had to adjust quickly. Here I can take my time getting to that third Spanish class, I can give a restaurant order in my fumbling Spanish and have the waiter answer me in English that I don't have to struggle to understand, and if it's a choice between going out to see a play in English starring my friends and going to an activity less accessible to my understanding, no choice--unless I deliberately put myself into the less comfortable situation, and maybe, maybe eventually such situations will become more comfortable.

There's also the matter you mentioned of gringos who are intermarried and otherwise closely connected to Mexicans so that the barriers are dropped, or easier to cross. At least the older retired gringos here rarely have children here who are more likely to marry a Mexican. The younger gringo families with children here may very well assimilate much faster as the second generation finds it easy to adopt Mexican culture and values as well as the language.

We didn't integrate much into the Phoenix community as such when we lived there, being in an RV park with others just like us. I like San Miguel life much better being at least surrounded by Mexican culture, where we can go down to the Jardin every afternoon for The Herald and just enjoy watching the kids at play, the teenagers flirting, the families expanding into this community living room, the classes interact.

I feel a part of San Miguel much more than I felt a part of Phoenix, even if the reality is that I have few close personal dealings with Mexican people. I would like more. I have to really, really study and practice to get more comfortable with the language and then make far more efforts to put myself into situations where I am surrounded by Mexicans, and not be too disappointed when that acceptance doesn't happen immediately. I see some gringos here who think they are a real part of the Mexican community but from a distance I can see they are fooling themselves, when push comes to shove they will always be gringos. And some do seem to be integrated.

When we were RVing full-time for 3 1/2 years and checking out the continent for likely places to retire we could see immediately that we would never be accepted in many areas of the US--the charming but tight New England communities would never take to free-spirited Midwesterners who had transplanted themselves to LA for most of our adult lives.

We had almost as hard a time understanding and being understood among people in Maine and in Mississippi as we do in Mexico! I'd give a restaurant order in the South, outside again of the tourist areas, and the waiter would just watch my speeding mouth flap and then drawl something like, "I didn't understand a word you said."

There's also the fact that some people easily assimilate wherever they go, they're just likeable, affable people without something distinguishing to set them forever apart. As older, liberal lesbians with health problems, and I have been fat many years in my life, we were different, we could see we'd never be accepted in many places and by many people.

Here in SMA there is more of an accepting attitude overall. It may be a surface acceptance, but that's better than nothing!

Definitely these are thoughts to ponder. Thanks again,

Carol Schmidt


MariaLund

Mar 5, 2004, 8:05 AM

Post #4 of 10 (766 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Heard there are less than 50 gringos living in Guanajuato

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Carol, I enjoyed your comments about integration and communication in various areas. When I first came to the USA 23 years ago (English - chronologically - is my fourth language, but I came to the US after living and working in London for a while and after having written articles in English - edited by a native speaking journalist, though), I had no troubles at all understanding or being understood in San Francisco or at Stanford University's campus. But as soon as I ventured to the Texas Hill Country, close to San Antonio, I could not believe those peaple spoke English, it was so hard to understand them, though they understood me, no problem. But when I ventured to Georgia and tried to place an order in a fast food place they di not understand me, although I could understand them, no problem. Go figure. Last year, I ventured to Costa Rica and was communicating easily in Monteverde, not because my Spanish was so good, but because their Engish was -- it is an American quaker village in the cloud forest. :-)
Vivere non est necesse, navigare necesse est!


hummer

Mar 5, 2004, 7:36 PM

Post #5 of 10 (733 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Heard there are less than 50 gringos living in Guanajuato

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Among those of us who live in Guanajuato, we often guess that there are about 200 of us ex pats in town. That would include the full time retired types, the part time (but long term) residents, the employed and well integrated. But, who knows?

The Sunday Brunch can have as many as 35 and as few as 3-5 people show up. Most of the other social events are a mix of foreigners and Mexicans so it is hard to estimate.

While not all of us are fluent Spanish speakers, it does help to be comfortable with the language. It is a lot more fun as well!


elcomputo

Mar 15, 2004, 1:01 PM

Post #6 of 10 (646 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Heard there are less than 50 gringos living in Guanajuato

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The city claims there are 130,000 people living within its area of jurisdiction. The number in the gringo population is problematic, as so many are here just in the winter and the overall composition keeps changing. The number I have seen most frequently is 15,000.


elcomputo

Mar 15, 2004, 1:23 PM

Post #7 of 10 (643 views)

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Re: [hummer] Heard there are less than 50 gringos living in Guanajuato

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In SMA, we have the advantage of an English-language newspaper which posts times and places for meetings of groups catering to the English-speaking population. In Guanajuato, a much larger city with far fewer gringos, how do you manage to make contact with other gringos?

Given the importance of the university there, do you find that it provides anything of an interface with the gringo community? Does the university set more of a middle class tone for Guanajuato? I would say most of the Mexican population in San Miguel consists of people working in the service economy -- courteous, but having little in common with the gringos.

But I have also heard comments (usually based on the experience of a two- or three-day exposure to the community) that the Mexican people of SMA are friendlier/unfriendlier (depending upon who is making the comment) than the people of Guanajuato. What has been your experience? I find the people in SMA to be not unfriendly, on the whole, but they don't go out of their way to make friends of gringos. They seem to consider us curiosities -- much the same response we gringos give Mexican visitors in the USA.

For those of us in SMA with only enough command of Spanish to survive, we have various entertainments that require no command of the language. What do you do up there for entertainment?


hummer

Mar 15, 2004, 7:31 PM

Post #8 of 10 (615 views)

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Re: [elcomputo] Heard there are less than 50 gringos living in Guanajuato

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Let me see.

I really wish we had the advantage of the 'Atencion' in GTO; there is really nothing that compares here. There is nothing in Spanish that compares to the information you have readily available. In order for us to know what movies, concerts, shows, classes are available, we have to stroll around the town and read the posters and network a lot.

Since there are relatively few of us, we kind of stand out and it makes it easy to make contact with newcomers. The language schools are also magnets.

One of the effects of having the university (and the state government offices) is to increase the number of professionals in the city. In many ways it is very middle class, just the increasing number of cars is testimony to that! That said, it still is not easy to become a part of that local community.

The ex pats that do integrate well are mostly younger with kids in school, working (such as the musicians and teachers), married into a local family, etc. Some of us have joined the local organizations such as a citizen group, the museum support group, the animal protection group and that is a big help.

Hope that answers most of the questions.


elcomputo

Mar 17, 2004, 8:06 PM

Post #9 of 10 (559 views)

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Re: [hummer] Heard there are less than 50 gringos living in Guanajuato

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I am working with the animal shelter in SMA. I was not aware there was an animal protection group in Guanajuato. (I was not aware there was a gringo-run shelter in Taxco, either, until I saw the Taxco community's Web page.) Do you folks also have a shelter? I can't imagine that you do, given the small size of your community, and I seem to recall people coming over from Guanajuato to look at some of our dogs.

Actually, there are two groups in SMA. One runs the shelter and the other attempts to get the city to put animals down humanely by providing the tranquilizing drugs to the city office that picks up stray animals. The latter group also runs a program to get animals spayed and neutered. Before this group came along, the city killed animals by electrocuting them. I've heard the method is even worse in Guanajuato -- throwing them off a cliff. I hope that in my next life I am not born a dog in Mexico.


GÜICHITO

Mar 21, 2004, 1:41 AM

Post #10 of 10 (498 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Heard there are less than 50 gringos living in Guanajuato

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Surely there are more than 50 gringos in GTO.
Hola a Todos
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