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quevedo

Oct 28, 2006, 7:10 PM

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Una piedra más / One more brick

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I wrote this in Spanish and made the translation effort afterwards. I confess I had a difficult time with both: writing and translating.

Please help me with my English and with my feelings. I'm not very happy with them today.

Un abrazo solidario,

Quevedo

Seis años. Pocos. Pero parecen una eternidad.

Six years. Not many. But they feel like ages.

En estos seis años escasos se ha multiplicado el odio generalizado hacia los Estados Unidos. Estemos o no de acuerdo con el odio y sus funestas consecuencias, no podemos negar el hecho: cada vez más y más gente en el mundo quiere menos y menos a los norteamericanos.

In these less than six years generalized hatred against the United States has multiplied itself. Whether we agree or disagree with hatred and its ill-fated consequences, we have to accept the fact: more and more people around the world loves Americans less and less.

Explíquese todo lo que se quiera explicar; fundaméntense hasta el cansancio razones, acciones y reacciones, causas y efectos: la marea de miedo y odio crece y sube y adquiere día con día colores más sangrientos y filos más envenenados.

Explain everything you want to explain; repeat to boredom reasonings, actions and reactions, causes and effects: the tide of fear and hatred grows and rises and day after day acquires more bloody colors and more poisoned edges.

Se ha votado el muro. Todo de acuerdo a la ley, todo estudiado, todo soportado en lógicas indestructibles. Una piedra más en el muro de odio que ríe, se ensancha, se alimenta y engorda.

The wall has been voted. Everything to the letter of the law, everything studied, everything supported by indestructible logic. Another brick in the wall of hatred that laughs, expands, feeds itself and fattens.

Por más altos y fuertes que se construyan los muros y por más armas que los defiendan, el odio podrá más. El miedo y el odio de todos los demás.

No matter how tall and strong walls are built; no matter how many weapons defend them, hatred will prevail. Fear and hatred from everyone else.

Y cuando gane el odio todos habremos perdido.

And when hatred had won we, all of us, will have lost.

Quevedo

sparks

Oct 29, 2006, 3:05 AM

Post #2 of 12 (4102 views)

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Re: [quevedo] Una piedra más / One more brick

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Quote

Until you are blue in the face ;)

That was all that didn't translate for me.

Maybe after George leave we'll see a bit better attitude

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

mariejosee

Oct 29, 2006, 6:51 AM

Post #3 of 12 (4099 views)

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Re: [quevedo] Una piedra más / One more brick

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Addressing your feelings...

Peace is not a relationship of nations. It is a condition of mind brought about by a serenity of soul. Peace is not merely the absence of war. It is also a state of mind. Lasting peace can come only to peaceful people.
Jawaharlal Nehru (1889 - 1964)

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955), (attributed)

Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it.
Jane Wagner, (and Lily Tomlin)

It is said that power corrupts, but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power.
David Brin (1950 - )

It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
Krishnamurti

You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it.
Robin Williams (1951 - )

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
Richard M. Nixon (1913 - 1994), in his White House farewell

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
Brendan Gill

Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul.
And sings the tune
Without the words,
and never stops at all.
Emily Dickinson (1830 - 1886)

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.
Gerry Spence, 'How to Argue and Win Every Time'

Man is what he believes.
Anton Chekhov (1860 - 1904)

************************************************************
As if you could kill time without injuring eternity.
"Henry David Thoreau"

caldwelld

Oct 29, 2006, 7:02 AM

Post #4 of 12 (4097 views)

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Maybe this will take your mind off those sore feelings: http://www.policyreview.org/139/katz.html
dondon

sparks

Oct 29, 2006, 9:00 AM

Post #5 of 12 (4086 views)

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Re: [sparks] Una piedra más / One more brick

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Where's my quote and I can't re-edit. Funky board

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

quevedo

Oct 29, 2006, 9:51 AM

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Re: [sparks] Una piedra más / One more brick

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Please try again. Your ideas welcome.

Saludos,

Quevedo

jerezano

Oct 30, 2006, 12:02 PM

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Hola todos:

El Sr. Quevedo me sugerió que pongara yo mis ideas sobre este ensayo aquí en el forum.

Hola Quevedo: Aquí es una traducción floja [no literal i.e., not word for word] pero que en mi opinión preserve tus pensamientos y sentidos. Mas es lo que yo creo tú dices o quieres decir. No hay ninguna traducción correcta. Sólo varios atentos para tratar capturar lo que tú quieres decir. Y nadie puede pensar lo mismo como tú.

Seis años. Pocos. Pero parecen una eternidad.
Six years. Just a few. But they appear to be an eternity.

En estos seis años escasos se ha multiplicado el odio generalizado hacia los Estados Unidos. Estemos o no de acuerdo con el odio y sus funestas consecuencias, no podemos negar el hecho: cada vez más y más gente en el mundo quiere menos y menos a los norteamericanos.
In those few six years world hatred of the United States has multiplied several fold. Whether or not one is in agreement with that hatred and its nefarious consequences, the fact cannot be denied; with every moment more and more people in the world like the United states less and less. Yo prefiero decir more and more people in the world hate the Unites states more and more.

Explíquese todo lo que se quiera explicar; fundaméntense hasta el cansancio razones, acciones y reacciones, causas y efectos: la marea de miedo y odio crece y sube y adquiere día con día colores más sangrientos y filos más envenenados.
Explain whatever needs to be explained; give reasons until reasons end, talk about actions and reactions, causes and effects: that sickness of fear and hatred grows and grows, and daily aquires bloodier colors and more poisonous edges. Creo que aquí es donde Sparks quiere usar el modismo Talk until one is blue in the face, explain………etc.

Se ha votado el muro. Todo de acuerdo a la ley, todo estudiado, todo soportado en lógicas indestructibles. Una piedra más en el muro de odio que ríe, se ensancha, se alimenta y engorda.
The wall has been voted, signed and is now law. Everything has been done in accordance with proper laws and procedures and all has been supported by indestructible logic. One stone more in the wall of hatred; one stone more which causes sardonic laughter, a dark and spreading stain on the history of the world and one stone more which feeds and fattens that multiplying hatred of the United States.

Por más altos y fuertes que se construyan los muros y por más armas que los defiendan, el odio podrá más. El miedo y el odio de todos los demás.
No matter how high and strong that wall may be built, and no matter how strongly and with what armaments that wall may be defended, that hatred will conquer all. That hatred of the United States now being created in the rest of the world.

Lo siento mucho que tú crees esto. Yo, no. Yo estoy de acuerdo con tigo, que no deben construir el muro, que es un necedad en vez de nescesidad. Que va a destruir relaciones internacionales muy extensas. Que destruye también la buena opinión de los Estados Unidos de la que hay muy pocas remanentes. Pero, yo soy en el grupo minorio. En una democracia es necesario ajustar a lo que la mayoría demanda. Sin eso ajustamiento reina el anarquía. ¡OAXACA! ¡AMLO! etc. Se puede expresar la opinión contraria, pero si no pesa, no pesa. Adiós. Jerezano.

lamexicanita86

Oct 31, 2006, 10:03 AM

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En contestacion al Sr. Quevedo: no hay una traduccion correcta, sino muchas, y la mia que se encuentra abajo tambien es floja, pero un poco mas literal que la de nuestro amigo Jerezano. Espero que exprese bien lo que Ud. queria decir, pues estoy muy de acuerdo con sus sentimientos, e hice esta traduccion con el corazon sensitivo a los detalles de una escritora.

Seis anos. Pocos. Pero parecen una eternidad.
Six years. Not many. But they feel like an eternity.
En estos seis anos escasos se ha multiplicado el odio generalizado hacia los Estados Unidos. Estemos o no de acuerdo con el odio y sus funestas consecuencias, no podemos negar el hecho: cada vez mas y mas gente del mundo quiere menos y menos a los norteamericanos.
In less than six years, hatred in general toward the United States has multiplied. Whether or not we agree with this hatred and its disastrous consequences, we cannot deny the fact: every day anti-American sentiments increase more and more. (Tambien se podria decir lo que Ud. dijo en su traduccion, pero la frase que puse yo se usa mas comunmente.)
Expliquese todo lo que quieran explicarse; fundamentense hasta el cansancio razones, acciones y reacciones, causas y efectos: la marea de miedo y odio crece y sube y adquiere dia con dia colores mas sangrientos y filos mas envenenados.
Explain as much as you want to explain; repeat the tired argument of reasons, action and reactions, causes and effects. The fact remains that every day the tide of fear and hatred rises and swells and acquires bloodier colors and more poisonous tints. (En este caso escogi la palabra "tints" (tinte o matiz) en vez de "edges" porque me parece que va mejor con la metafora de la marea, ya que la marea puede traer muchos sangre y muchos colores, pero no tiene lo que se diria filos. De todos modos, es una imagen muy fuerte, "filos mas envenenados." Uf!
Se ha votado el muro. Todo de acuerdo de la ley, todo estudiado, todo soportado en logicas indestructibles. Una piedra mas en el muro de odio se rie, se ensancha, se alimenta, engorda.
The wall has been voted. Everything has been decided, everything studied, supported by seemingly indestructible logic and given the consent of the law. Another brick in the wall of hatred laughs, widens, feeds itself, and grows fat.
Por mas altos y fuertes que se construyan los muros, y por mas armas que los defiendan, el odio podra mas. El miedo y el odio de todos los demas. Y cuando gane el odio, todos habremos perdido.
No matter how tall and strong the walls are built, no matter how many weapons defend them, hatred will prevail. Fear, and the hatred of everyone else. And when fear wins, we all will have lost.

Oscar2

Nov 4, 2006, 9:15 AM

Post #9 of 12 (3961 views)

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Re: [caldwelld] Una piedra más / One more brick

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Like this and so many other news articles, Quevedo’s interesting piece/quandary/lament and Mariejosee’s stunning quotes, perhaps leads into other considerations.

It could be said that on a collective level, the mind-set “We are right and they are wrong” is particularly entrenched in those parts of the world where conflict between two nations, races, tribes, religions, or ideologies is long-standing, extreme, and endemic. Both sides of the conflict are equally identified with their own perspective, their own “story,” that is to say, “identified with thought.” Both are equally incapable of seeing that another perspective, another story, may exist and also be valid.

Both sides believe themselves to be in possession of the truth. Both regard themselves as victims and the “other” as evil, and because they have conceptualized and thereby dehumanized the other as the enemy, they can kill, and inflict all kinds of violence on the other, even children, without feeling their humanity and suffering. They become trapped in an insane spiral of perpetration and retribution, action and reaction.

Here it becomes obvious that the human ego, in its collective aspect as “us” against “them” is even more insane than the “me,” the individual ego, although the mechanism is the same. By far the greater part of violence that humans have inflicted on each other is not the work of criminals or the mentally deranged, but of normal, respectable citizens in the service of the collective ego. One can go so far as to say that on this planet “normal” equals insane. What is it that lies at the root of this insanity? Complete identification with thought and emotion, this is to say, ego.

The particular egoic patterns that you react to most strongly in others and misperceive as their identity tend to be the same patterns that are also in you, but that you are unable or unwilling to detect within yourself. In that sense, you have much to learn from your enemies. What is it in them that you find most upsetting, most disturbing? Their selfishness? Their greed? Their need for power and control? Their insincerity, dishonesty, propensity to violence, or whatever it may be? Anything that you resent and strongly react to in another is also in you. But it is no more than a form of ego, and as such, it is completely impersonal. It has nothing to do with who that person is, nor has it anything do with who you are. “Only if you mistake it for who you are” can observing it within you be threatening to your “sense of self.”

quevedo

Nov 4, 2006, 9:26 AM

Post #10 of 12 (3957 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Una piedra más / One more brick

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"[..] on this planet “normal” equals insane."

Common instead of normal, I guess. Normal is intrinsically sane; thing is, what is common nowadays is not normal anymore.

I agree with your ideas in general but, are we enemies with the United States? Do we have to declare ourselves enemies?

Saludos,

Queveo

doogie

Nov 4, 2006, 11:55 AM

Post #11 of 12 (3943 views)

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" . . . are we enemies of the United States?"

It seems the government of George Bush considers most of the world to be it's enemy. The "either you're with us or you're against us" mentallity of this paranoid U.S. government has created so many enemies that I do not think we will be able to heal the damage done in our lifetime. So many fences, and they're still building more. I share your sadness, Quevedo.
Doogie,
Tapatío de corazón

Oscar2

Nov 5, 2006, 9:17 AM

Post #12 of 12 (3913 views)

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Quote

are we enemies with the United States? Do we have to declare ourselves enemies?

Buenos Dias Quevedo,

Los sentimientos se sienten pero no tengas quedado porque ay luz en el otra lado de la túnel.

When one person of a nation echoes questions which have grown to haunt, one must look too and within his/her self. Why, because normally an ego always has a hidden agenda, always a sense of “not enough yet.” Of insufficiency and a lack thereof that needs to be filled. It uses people and situations to get what it needs; and even when it succeeds; it is never satisfied for long. Often it is thwarted in its aims, and for the most part the gap between ”I want/need” and “what is” becomes a constant source of unhappeness and anguish.

The Stones rock classic “I can’t get no satisfaction” is the song of the ego. The underlying emotion that governs all the activity of the ego is fear, the fear of being nobody, the fear of nonexistence and the fear of death. All its activities are ultimately designed to eliminate this fear, but the most the ego can ever do is to cover it up “temporarily” with an intimate relationship, “an open question,” a new possession, or winning at this or that. Illusion will never satisfy you. Only the truth of “who you are,” if realized, will set you free.

One can only find who they are in the silence and stillness within the moment of life. In the existence of peace now? By making peace with the present moment. The present moment is the field on which the game of life happens. It cannot happen anywhere else. Once you have made peace with the present moment, see what happens, what you can do or choose to do, or rather “what life does through you.” There are three words that convey the secret of the art of living, the secret of all success and happiness: “One With Life.” Being one with life is being one with Now. You then realize that you don’t live your life, but life lives you. Life is the dancer, and you are the dance……….

Disclaimer: The aforementioned is purely for the entertainment purposes of the heart and spirit. The mind is not invited …………. Wink

¡Hasta Luego Me Amigo!