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nfabq

Sep 29, 2006, 6:19 PM

Post #1 of 31 (4512 views)

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Charge for Mexican passport?

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I have been told that a Mexican citizen must pay $100.00 US for a passport which is needed before applying for a visa anywhere.Does anyone know if this is true?

Norm



jennifer rose

Sep 29, 2006, 6:48 PM

Post #2 of 31 (4491 views)

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Re: [nfabq] Charge for Mexican passport?

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A valid passport is a required before applying for a visa.

The charges for a Mexican passport range from $170 MN to $1440 MN, depending upon whether the applicant is disabled, over the age of 60 years, and whether the passport's duration is one, five or ten years.


MazDee

Sep 29, 2006, 7:00 PM

Post #3 of 31 (4486 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Charge for Mexican passport?

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And, even if you have the money they are not that easy to get. Takes a while, at least. I do think that the woman who cleans my house had a visa, before she applied for a passport, but maybe I misunderstood. (Angeles and I have our own language, and sometimes what she tells me is a bit confusing). I know that she travelled to the states once, legally, after more than one trip to Hermosillo (a LONG way from here) to get a visa.


Marlene


Sep 29, 2006, 7:22 PM

Post #4 of 31 (4480 views)

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Re: [MazDee] Charge for Mexican passport?

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The passport is the relatively easy part by comparison, and doesn't take more than a few days. (The Canadian Embassy in Mexico City could learn from this!) It's the visa that's the difficult process. And from Mazatlan it is a big nightmare because as you say, Hermosillo is the nearest Embassy. Even if the visa is granted, it takes about 13 hours on the bus and an overnight in a hotel, food etc, and then another 13 hours back to Mazatlan. Then one must go back and collect the Visa on the day they tell you to go. They give one alternate date and if you can't do either of those days, the game is over, you lose and your visa ends up in some dungeon never to be seen again. My husband figures that his visa adventure cost about $1000.00 USD all in because he had to fly to pick it up due to work commitments. (This estimate includes his impulse purchase of some delicious Sonora beef in the Hermosillo airport and beers at airport prices during the 3 hour wait for the plane!) Ni modo.


esperanza

Sep 29, 2006, 7:25 PM

Post #5 of 31 (4479 views)

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Re: [nfabq] Charge for Mexican passport?

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A Mexican citizen must have a Mexican passport before he or she can apply for a visa good for travel to the United States. The passport comes from the Mexican government. The Mexican government readily grants passports to its citizens.

A visa for travel to the United States is granted by the US government. In order to be granted an appointment to apply for a US visa, a Mexican citizen must pay a fee of 1000 pesos to the US government. The fee applies whether or not the visa is actually granted by the US government. The fee is not refundable. Many, many Mexicans pay the appointment fee over and over again before the US government grants the visa to enter the US.

In cases too numerous to count, the US government flatly refuses to grant Mexican citizens a visa for travel. The list of requirements that Mexican citizens must meet in order to be eligible for a visa to enter the US is long and can be capricious. For example, young men of a certain age are routinely refused visas even when they meet all of the requirements.

Mexican citizens are not required to have visas for up to six months' travel to Canada.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









(This post was edited by esperanza on Sep 29, 2006, 7:27 PM)


nfabq

Sep 29, 2006, 8:13 PM

Post #6 of 31 (4462 views)

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Re: [Esperanza] Charge for Mexican passport?

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Thank you all. Now,I think,we all should have a better understanding of why it's easier and cheaper,and more certain, to pay a coyote.

Norm


Papirex


Sep 29, 2006, 8:54 PM

Post #7 of 31 (4451 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Charge for Mexican passport?

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A Mexican citizen usually also needs a Mexican passport when returning to Mexico to re-enter the country. A few years ago, my wife lost her passport. She had forgotten it at the airline counter in Guadalajara. She had to show her passport there to board the plane to leave the country. It was the last trip she made to Mexico before my retirement and our move to Mexico. She didn’t realize that it was lost until after she got home. She reported the loss to The Mexican Consul in Anchorage.

The next year when we stopped in Phoenix to get my first FM3, she asked the man that was issuing the FM3s how she could re-enter Mexico without her passport. He issued her a tarjeta de consular, (those are the controversial ID cards that Mexican Consulates in The US issue to illegal immigrants there). The card had her computerized picture on it. It worked fine, we made a couple of trips to Texas and she used the card to re-enter Mexico, but it expired after a year or two.

This year, we made our first trip in 6 years to The US. Getting a new passport for her was another Mexican government nightmare. Her old passport was issued in Mexico, D.F. She had to go to the delegation where her mother lives, where the lost passport was issued.

To get a new passport here, you must turn in your old passport. The people at the delegation refused to issue another passport until she provided them with her old passport, or a police report about the lost passport. When she told them that there are no Mexican police stations in Anchorage Alaska, so she had reported the loss to the Mexican consul there, it made no difference to them. She was told that without a Mexican police report she would never again be eligible to get another Mexican passport.

She went back to the same delegation a few days later, hoping to speak to a different person. No luck, they all remembered her. A few days later, she tried a different delegation. They refused also because she wasn’t registered at that delegation.

She went back to the second delegation a few days later, and insisted the she be allowed to speak to the Gerente there. She did speak to him, and explained her problem and pleaded with him to issue her a passport even though it was not her delegation. (When my wife pleads, many people think they are being threatened.)

She got her new passport. She said the Gerente was madder than hell, and told her he was just doing it to get rid of her, and next time she should register at that delegation, or at another delegation. No problem there, she is now finally going to register here in Cuernavaca, and change her tarjeta de votar to Cuernavaca too.

Every Mexican citizen should carefully guard their passport and not lose it. Small things can balloon into big problems here without warning.

Rex


"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


sfmacaws


Sep 29, 2006, 9:53 PM

Post #8 of 31 (4439 views)

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Re: [RexC] Charge for Mexican passport?

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I read recently on another forum that the people who work at the US embassy and who make the initial yes or no decision on mexicans applying for a visa are actually mexican citizens employed by the embassy. Perhaps they were mistaken and they are hispanic americans hired because they are bilingual but consider that many mexicans immigrants have stated that their worst treatment by US border guards has been at the hands of hispanic officers.

It was also stated that the current ambassador to Mexico is a big part of the problem. What's the dish on him?
--before you say we shouldn't gossip about him remember that he is american and where he resides is considered american soil so those picky mexican libel laws are irrelevent and we should be able to dish him like he was Paris Hilton.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Papirex


Sep 29, 2006, 11:25 PM

Post #9 of 31 (4431 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Charge for Mexican passport?

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Yes, most of the lower level employees at The US Embassy are Mexican citizen employees. The now defunct English language newspaper “The News” that was published in Mexico City used to occasionally run help wanted ads for Employees for the Embassy. They were aimed at Mexican citizens that were fluent in English.

There is no fooling the members of my wife’s Mexican family. When my wife, Suegra, and other family members tell me they are Mexicans, I believe them. They can spot an English accent, or the poor Spanish spoken by most Chicanos a mile away.

It is also true that Chicanos commit most of the abuses suffered at the border from customs agents. A few years before we met, two male US customs agents tried to force my wife to submit to a strip search by them.

My wife didn’t know her rights under American law, and she nearly panicked. She saw a female US customs agent and she said she would let her do the strip search, but not the men. The female agent just laughed, and said “Don’t worry, they will do a good job” , and she walked away. All three of those agents were Chicanos.

Just at that moment, one of the men noticed my wife’s guitar case. She was still a professional musician at that time. They told her she wouldn’t have to strip if she would play and sing a few songs for them. They didn’t let her stop until about ten minutes before her plane was to take off.

She had to run, carrying all her bags from one end of the Dallas airport to the other to make her flight on time. The shuttle train was too slow for her to make her flight on time. My wife is handicapped, and that was a very painful run for her.

If we had been married at that time, the families of those two guys would still be looking for their bodies. I used to be a soldier, and I’m not kidding.

When my wife calls someone a Chicano, it is not a term of endearment, or complimentary.

The greatest qualifications of the current US Ambassador to Mexico are that his parents were born in Mexico. He is also a friend of George Bush, and he recently married a Mexican billionaire. Who do you think he really represents?

Rex


"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


Papirex


Sep 30, 2006, 12:05 PM

Post #10 of 31 (4358 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Charge for Mexican passport?

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Yeah, she’s the one. A major owner of one of the largest beer companies in Mexico. I don’t remember which company it is either. The story was in all the papers a year or so ago.

You are about 90% right about major contributors to any political party, or friends of the president being appointed as ambassadors, no matter which party is in power in The US.

Sometimes career diplomats in The Department of State are given appointments as ambassadors, but always to little insignificant countries, like the Armpit of the World Republic.

We have a terrible system for appointing ambassadors. Short of a constitutional amendment, I don’t think it will ever change. Whichever party is holding the presidency in The US will never agree to change it so that only career diplomats are eligible for ambassadorships.

The results of politically appointed ambassadors with no diplomatic experience have in the past been sometimes disastrous. At the start of WWII, before The US was involved, the US Ambassador to England was sympathetic to the German Nazis. He was sharing information with them about the English defenses, etc. President Roosevelt finally had to recall him. Years later, his son was elected our president.

Politics has no place in diplomacy.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


jennifer rose

Sep 30, 2006, 12:06 PM

Post #11 of 31 (4358 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Charge for Mexican passport?

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Ambassador Tony Garza married to Maria Asunción Aramburuzabala, who has holdings in Grupo Modelo and Televisa and whose management acumen is well-recognized.

Tony Garza has been a law firm partner, judge, Texas secretary of state, a member of the Texas Railroad Commission, and IIRC, the firt Hispanic Republican to hold state-wide elective office in Texas.

Comments alluding to his wife as a "beer babe" and otherwise casting her in a poor light are inappropriate to this forum. And will be subject to deletion.


JohnnyBoy

Oct 5, 2006, 1:18 PM

Post #12 of 31 (4216 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Charge for Mexican passport?

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And then we marvel at the Mexican consolates in the USA and the immigration offices in Mexico in which there seems to be no rhyme nor reason as to how the Mexicans will interpret their laws as regards FM3 visas, and other matters. The US INS officers at the borders are frequently every bit as inconsistent and illogical in their decisions.

My partner, who sweat blood (hyperbole) the day he presented himself for his US visa, felt he really lucked out because he got the cute little Chicana INS officer and she definitely had some chemistry going on. He told me that three others, just like him (young, educated, and male), equally well prepared with documents, bank statements, letters, etc. were rejected by a different male INS officer and none were given a reason that they could understand. "Insufficient" was about all they could get. Totally capricious.

Even now as my partner crosses the very same border, for the umpteenth time (hyperbole), he is never sure he will get the permission. Just because you have a US visa is no guarantee you will ever get into the USA. He still shows his ownership papers for his house, his bank account statement that shows he has money in the bank (and he has a lot), letters from his employer, and all the rest. Forget the fact that the INS computers know that he has crossed the border many times and always, always returned on or a before the date his permission expires. They still treat him like scum and make him jump through all their mindless hoops. For the love of heaven, if he were going to come and stay, he would have done it by now.

So I won't flinch, won't complain, won't shed a tear (hyperbole), when the Mexican consolate in San Francisco starts yanking my chain next March when I go to apply for my FM3. I will just consider it payback for the treatment my partner has endured at the hands of the INS for doing every legally and correctly (hyperbole). I am sure they would prefer all the Mexicans crossing their border to find some other way to get into the USA and just leave them alone.


Georgia


Oct 7, 2006, 7:36 AM

Post #13 of 31 (4166 views)

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Re: [JohnBleazard] Charge for Mexican passport?

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The INS people at the border are real sado-masochists. When I entered the US with my four adopted Colombian born childeren, the agent detained us for so long we nearly missed our next flight. Then she had the audacity to complain because the childeren were becoming restless. She objected to the fact that we were "permitted" to adopt because we lived on a dirt road in the country and our house did not have a street number. It was the only house on the road, duh. Then she complained that the children were "defective" because two of them had eardrum perforations. They were cleared by the medical officer in the American consulate in Bogota and issued visas. She, however, apparently had a higher medical standard, in spite of the excess 150 pounds or so she carried on her body. "Give me your tired, your poor" my a**.


Papirex


Oct 19, 2006, 7:20 PM

Post #14 of 31 (4030 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Charge for Mexican passport?

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Jonna, I just copied this little blurb from the website for The US Embassy in Mexico City. I have no idea of what the total number of employees is at The Embassy, but the number of Mexican employees is significant I think.

“On Sept. 15, 2006, Ambassador Garza and his embassy colleagues celebrated the 196th Anniversary of Mexico's independence from Spain. The event was hosted by the Embassy's Mexican Employees Association, which represents the approximately 500 Mexicans employed by the Embassy.

Rex



"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


sfmacaws


Oct 20, 2006, 12:02 AM

Post #15 of 31 (4002 views)

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Re: [RexC] Charge for Mexican passport?

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That's got to be a large percentage of the employees at the embassy. I find it disturbing if it is true that interviews for a visa are conducted by foreigners, it seems to me that is something that should be done by american citizens that are trained and supervised according to the laws of the US. In addition, it would be really good for young americans to take these jobs and get some experience in living in other countries, I think my country is too insular. Pay them low wages and give them credits off their student loans.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Marta R

Oct 20, 2006, 11:47 AM

Post #16 of 31 (3948 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Charge for Mexican passport?

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Certainly the Mexican Consulate in San Francisco is staffed by Mexican citizens. Further, last summer I had dinner in Mexico with, among othe people, a young man who had just completed his mandatory government service by working in the consulate in Seattle. I think this is an admirable set-up: it exposes up and coming young people to other cultures, languages, etc. The U.S. could do worse than adopt a similar plan.

Marta


Ed and Fran

Oct 20, 2006, 12:00 PM

Post #17 of 31 (3944 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Charge for Mexican passport?

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That's got to be a large percentage of the employees at the embassy. I find it disturbing if it is true that interviews for a visa are conducted by foreigners, it seems to me that is something that should be done by american citizens that are trained and supervised according to the laws of the US.


While I know that there are a lot of Mexican nationals employed at the embassy (and consulates), the two times that I have been involved in the visa application process (with Fran and Junior) the final interview was done by U.S. staff. I have no idea if that's done all the time, but it was in the two cases that I experienced.

Regards

Ed


Bubba

Oct 20, 2006, 12:20 PM

Post #18 of 31 (3942 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Charge for Mexican passport?

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The INS people at the border are real sado-masochists. When I entered the US with my four adopted Colombian born childeren, the agent detained us for so long we nearly missed our next flight. Then she had the audacity to complain because the childeren were becoming restless. She objected to the fact that we were "permitted" to adopt because we lived on a dirt road in the country and our house did not have a street number. It was the only house on the road, duh. Then she complained that the children were "defective" because two of them had eardrum perforations. They were cleared by the medical officer in the American consulate in Bogota and issued visas. She, however, apparently had a higher medical standard, in spite of the excess 150 pounds or so she carried on her body. "Give me your tired, your poor" my a**.

Georgia:

INS employees sado-masochists? Three years as a successful employee of the INS should qualify a person automatically as a mid-level torture expert for Gitmo´s newly legalized Gulag station. No further training necessary. Those arrogant imbeciles working the torture chambers in the San Francisco INS office in the 1970s are the sole reason my French born wife is not an American citizen today. There is only so much one can take. She vowed never to go there again and there was nothing at all unusual about her case.


Georgia


Oct 20, 2006, 12:35 PM

Post #19 of 31 (3934 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Charge for Mexican passport?

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Sounds about right. It's the old "power corrupts." But I would change it to "a uniform and a little bit of power corrupts absolutely."


sfmacaws


Oct 20, 2006, 3:20 PM

Post #20 of 31 (3908 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Charge for Mexican passport?

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Now come on, I have to take that personally. Certainly when you have unusual power over other people it is absolutely imperative that there is sufficient training and supervision and careful background evaluations before hiring. That all takes money and it takes a committment by the voters and the legislature. When you drop the requirements in any of these areas, it is never good. The LAPD was a good example of that.

The wearing of uniforms and the command structure is one of the ways that helps in keeping behavior uniform and providing a structure that limits the individual's options to acceptable ones. Any sophisticated society needs workers to enforce the rules since some people seem to not be able to police themselves. If you let groups of untrained citizens do this job you will have really erratic results that are almost guaranteed not to be even close to fair (vigilante justice). So, you hire and train people for a job that has a lot of structure and limited options for behavior and you supervise them and you have a high level of accountability.

It's not an easy job and there are enormous amounts of stress that go along with it, that's why any stress related disease in cops is automatically considered job related. It takes a very confident, mature person to take the abuse that anyone in a uniform with power takes from the immature and inadequate people that also seem to be the ones that are most likely to act out and harm other people. They have to take it though and they have to respond calmly and with only the force required to control the situation. That is so much harder than most people realize and if you add to that the need to make every decision in a split second with no time to debate and consider. That's another reason that training is so important and takes so much time, you have to prepare people to make those decisions quickly and they have to be right every time. It's a lot of stress.

If we (the voters and citizens) are not providing all of these requirements (backgrounds, training and supervision) then we are responsible when things get out of hand. Remember that when the press wants to crucify some 22 year old for making a bad decision with inadequate tools to make the right one. Saying "a uniform and a little bit of power corrupts absolutely." is simplistic and insulting to a lot of people who are doing a job few of you would want but that few of you would want to live without it being done. I'm sorry Georgia, I respect you a lot but I had to respond to this.



Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Papirex


Oct 20, 2006, 3:28 PM

Post #21 of 31 (3905 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Charge for Mexican passport?

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Bubba, I agree with you 1000 percent on the INS employees in the US. My late father-in-law was an American citizen. He was a Mexican-American, born in Texas. He and his Mexican wife had three children; their oldest son was born in Texas, he has a US birth certificate and is a US citizen. Another son and my wife were born in Mexico City; they are Mexican citizens.

For whatever reasons, their births were not registered at The US Embassy as foreign-born children of American citizens. I don’t know if that would have been possible in the 1950s, since their mother was not an American citizen. However, they both are eligible for what is known as “derivative citizenship” because their father was an American citizen. We were told many times by the INS that the laws in effect at the time of their births applied to their eligibility, not the laws presently in force. Neither of them desired US citizenship for many years.

About 15 years ago my Mexican Cuñado came up to visit us in Anchorage. He had a typical horrible experience getting his visa to visit us at the Embassy in Mexico City. In those days, the office that issued visas at the embassy limited the number of people that they would interview each day. I have forgotten the number of people that were allowed to apply each day, but if they went to the office at the 8 AM opening time, they were too far back in line to get in. I don’t know if there is still a daily limit or not.

The only viable option was to go there the night before, and wait all night until the office opened in the morning. My cuñado was handicapped and needed to use those short crutches that clip to a persons forearm to walk any long distance. He used to take a folding lawn chair, a blanket, and a thermos of coffee with him to get in line the night before the embassy opened. There were always several people already in line when he would get there around 10 PM. He was never first in line.

The whole process for a Mexican citizen to get a visa to visit The US is dysfunctional. It cries out - lack of training! - lack of competent supervision!

That last time he got a visa was the straw that broke the camels back. He brought all his documentation with him and applied for US citizenship at the INS office in Anchorage. His goal in seeking US citizenship was to simply make it easier to cross the border when he wanted to visit his family in The US. My wife’s family is scattered all over Mexico, the US and Canada. Many of them are citizens by birth, or naturalization, or are legal residents.

The man that handled his application at INS proceeded to misinterpret the applicable laws, and make his own additions to them. He acknowledged that my cuñado was the son of his father, and then said that some of the dates were not correct, and simple subtraction showed that my late father-in-law could not have been in Mexico at the right time to father him???

After my cuñado’s application for his birthright was denied, he had to return to Mexico. He had gotten a two-month extension on his visa, and it was about to expire. My work in Alaska took me all over the state, and I was out in the bush when he had to leave. My wife sent me the rejection letter he had received from the INS.

When I read it, several errors jumped right off the page at me. My cuñado had already left the country, so we planned for him to appeal the decision in Mexico. Unfortunately he became very ill, and died at the young age of 48 before he could file an appeal.

We found out later that the man that rejected my cuñado’s application was an immigrant himself. He was a naturalized American citizen originally from Hungary. My wife makes friends wherever she goes. A couple of her new friends at INS informed her that he was later fired.

Since that time, my wife wants nothing to do with the INS. She talks about becoming a US citizen once in a while, but does nothing about it. She has a permanent Green card, so she has no problems when crossing the US border.

Since I mentioned her green card, I think most folks aren’t really aware that green card is a nickname for a resident card. They are not green in color; that comes from the old Bracero program. The Bracero ID cards were green colored. There are several different types of resident cards, some of them are time limited, and have an expiration date. There are professional, educators, student, etc. resident cards with expiration dates. Permanent resident cards have no expiration date.

If you move your US address, you file a change of address form with the INS. We have done that once since moving to Mexico. You are supposed to file that form within 10 days of moving, but nowhere on the form does it ask for the date that you moved Wink

The permanent resident cards have no expiration date, as long as a US address is maintained. Contrary to popular myth, there is no limit on the time that a person can be out of the US. The card remains valid no matter how long you are absent the country. It's a good idea, but not required, for a permanent resident cardholder to carry some other documents to show if challenged, a bank statement with a US address, US issued credit cards, a valid state drivers license, etc. If you are out of the US for six years as my wife was until recently, the card is still valid, as long as you have registered with a valid US address.

Mexico is not the only country that hires people without functional brains.

Rex







"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

(This post was edited by RexC on Oct 20, 2006, 3:40 PM)


Ron Pickering W3FJW


Oct 20, 2006, 3:29 PM

Post #22 of 31 (3904 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Charge for Mexican passport?

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If we (the voters and citizens) are not providing all of these requirements (backgrounds, training and supervision) then we are responsible when things get out of hand. Remember that when the press wants to crucify some 22 year old for making a bad decision with inadequate tools to make the right one. Saying "a uniform and a little bit of power corrupts absolutely." is simplistic and insulting to a lot of people who are doing a job few of you would want but that few of you would want to live without it being done.

I think you've nailed it on the head Jonna. When only a small percentage of the population use or care about a service, It's always gonna be a bad situation. The other 90% don't give a damn so it remains as it is and probably will remain that way through eternity.....
Getting older and still not down here.


arbon

Oct 20, 2006, 5:57 PM

Post #23 of 31 (3882 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Charge for Mexican passport?

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"Any sophisticated society needs workers to enforce the rules since some people seem to not be able to police themselves."

If there ever was a sophisticated society (highly developed and complex) there would be no need for any "Justice system".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



sfmacaws


Oct 20, 2006, 5:59 PM

Post #24 of 31 (3881 views)

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Re: [arbon] Charge for Mexican passport?

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I'm not sure I'd call that "sophisticated", I think you'd need gene manipulation to get there.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Georgia


Oct 20, 2006, 6:18 PM

Post #25 of 31 (3872 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Charge for Mexican passport?

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Sorry. But we'll have to agree to disagree. The INS personnel at the borders ARE trained, but really seem to get off on the power they have. Ditto for the personnel at consulates who take visa applications. It is embarrassing. It is unnecessary.

Laws can be enforced with courtesy, especially when we are talking about US citizens with adopted childeren entering the country with all their paperwork in order, or hard working, land owning, bank account holding, businessmen from Mexico who are trying to get visas.

A lack of courtesy on the part of public servants, when there is no conflict present is not acceptable under any circumstances. When we accept such behavior as understandable we lower ourselves and our society. I am not talking about uniformed officers facing rioters here - but even those civil servants are admonished to keep their cool in the fact of overt hostility.

Is it a difficult job? Sure. But there is no excuse for taking your frustrations out on people who are in compliance with all the regulations.
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