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macmember

Sep 19, 2006, 11:11 AM

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Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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If this doesn't slow down the influx of tourists and retirees, I don't know what would. It was on the news in our Texas town this morning, warning US Citizens about the threats to persons in several Mexican areas. It left you thinking it was the biggest part of Mexico. I'm not sure if we would have made our recent trip if we had read this first. Fortuneately we did not experience any of these problems and had a marvelous time. Maybe luck was with us.


CRIME: Crime in Mexico continues at high levels, and it is often violent, especially in Mexico City, Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, Acapulco, and the state of Sinaloa. Other metropolitan areas have lower, but still serious, levels of crime. Low apprehension and conviction rates of criminals contribute to the high crime rate. Travelers should always leave valuables and irreplaceable items in a safe place, or not bring them. All visitors are encouraged to make use of hotel safes when available, avoid wearing obviously expensive jewelry or designer clothing, and carry only the cash or credit cards that will be needed on each outing. There are a significant number of pick-pocketing, purse snatching, and hotel-room theft incidences. Public transportation is a particularly popular place for pickpockets. U.S. citizen victims of crime in Mexico are encouraged to report the incident to the nearest police headquarters and to the nearest U.S. consular office.

Visitors should be aware of their surroundings at all times, even when in areas generally considered safe. Women traveling alone are especially vulnerable and should exercise caution, particularly at night. Victims, who are almost always unaccompanied, have been raped, robbed of personal property, or abducted and then held while their credit cards were used at various businesses and Automatic Teller Machines (ATMs). Armed street crime is a serious problem in all of the major cities. Some bars and nightclubs, especially in resort cities such as Cancun, Cabo San Lucas, Mazatlan, and Acapulco, can be havens for drug dealers and petty criminals. Some establishments may contaminate or drug drinks to gain control over the patron.
U.S. citizens should be very cautious in general when using ATMs in Mexico. If an ATM must be used, it should be accessed only during the business day at large protected facilities (preferably inside commercial establishments, rather than at glass-enclosed, highly visible ATMs on streets). U.S. and Mexican citizens are sometimes accosted on the street and forced to withdraw money from their accounts using their ATM cards.

A number of Americans have been arrested for passing on counterfeit currency they had earlier received in change. If you receive what you believe to be a counterfeit bank note, bring it to the attention of Mexican law enforcement. Kidnapping, including the kidnapping of non-Mexicans, continues at alarming rates. So-called "express" kidnappings, an attempt to get quick cash in exchange for the release of an individual, have occurred in almost all the large cities in Mexico and appear to target not only the wealthy, but also middle class persons. U.S. businesses with offices in Mexico or concerned U.S. citizens may contact the U.S. Embassy or any U.S. consulate to discuss precautions they should take.

Criminal assaults occur on highways throughout Mexico; travelers should exercise extreme caution at all times, avoid traveling at night, and may wish to use toll (“cuota”) roads rather than the less secure “free” (“libre”) roads whenever possible. In addition, U.S. citizens should not hitchhike with, or accept rides from or offer rides to, strangers anywhere in Mexico. Tourists should not hike alone in backcountry areas, nor walk alone on lightly-frequented beaches, ruins or trails.

All bus travel should be during daylight hours and on first-class conveyances. Although there have been several reports of bus hijackings and robberies on toll roads, buses on toll roads have a markedly lower rate of incidents than buses (second and third class) that travel the less secure "free" highways. The Embassy advises caution when traveling by bus from Acapulco toward Ixtapa or Huatulco. Although the police have made some progress in bringing this problem under control, armed robberies of entire busloads of passengers still occur.
In some instances, Americans have become victims of harassment, mistreatment and extortion by Mexican law enforcement and other officials. Mexican authorities have cooperated in investigating such cases, but one must have the officer's name, badge number, and patrol car number to pursue a complaint effectively. Please note this information if you ever have a problem with police or other officials. In addition, tourists should be wary of persons representing themselves as police officers or other officials. When in doubt, ask for identification. Be aware that offering a bribe to a public official to avoid a ticket or other penalty is a crime in Mexico. It is increasingly common for extortionists to call prospective victims on the telephone, often posing as police officers, and demand payments in return for the release of an arrested family member, or to forestall a kidnapping. Prison inmates using smuggled cellular phones often place these calls. Persons receiving such calls should be extremely skeptical since most such demands or threats are baseless, and should contact the U.S. Embassy or closest U.S. consulate, or the Department of State for assistance



patricio_lintz


Sep 19, 2006, 7:14 PM

Post #2 of 55 (3967 views)

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Re: [macmember] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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Then the statistics came out today for thye states: ten safest cities. Dallas is last with 1 crime for every twelve citizens. Phoenix at # 8 one crime for every 14 people. New York city was the safest. Go figure.

I would like to see similar stats for Mexico. I'll bet that they are lower yet.


Ed and Fran

Sep 19, 2006, 7:19 PM

Post #3 of 55 (3963 views)

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Re: [patricio_lintz] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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I would like to see similar stats for Mexico. I'll bet that they are lower yet.


Probably, but they'd also probably be unreliable. Just my opinon but I suspect that a huge amount of crime here never gets reported or officially recorded in any stats because people believe there's no point in getting the police involved. Or worse yet, that getting the police involved just makes the situation worse.

Regards

Ed (not saying that it's safer here or there, just commenting on the stats)


macmember

Sep 19, 2006, 7:57 PM

Post #4 of 55 (3950 views)

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Re: [macmember] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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I spoke with my husband tonight about the article. He said that he felt safer in Guanajuato, Queretaro and San Miguel de Allende than anywhere in our area of Texas.

I'm sure there are areas of Mexico that we would not feel safe in.


ken_in_dfw

Sep 19, 2006, 8:17 PM

Post #5 of 55 (3945 views)

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Re: [macmember] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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"I spoke with my husband tonight about the article. He said that he felt safer in Guanajuato, Queretaro and San Miguel de Allende than anywhere in our area of Texas."

Coming from the sprawling 'burbs of Dallas, I would second that comment.

Ken


Bubba

Sep 19, 2006, 9:12 PM

Post #6 of 55 (3928 views)

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Re: [macmember] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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If this doesn't slow down the influx of tourists and retirees, I don't know what would. It was on the news in our Texas town this morning, warning US Citizens about the threats to persons in several Mexican areas

Macmember:

What precisely do you mean when you say "...it was on the news in our Texas town this morning...."? What was the source of this information - a local periodical? I recognize the text of this somewhat nebulous warning which appears to be lifted from State Department alerts meant to induce U.S. visitors into exercising more than casual care when visiting this country. In that regard, these warnings are "old hat" and have been around for some time. It is the government functionary´s predisposition to be overly alarmist in tone when issuing these alerts and, to that extent, this overraught prose should be taken with a grain of salt.

On the other hand, there is good advice contained in this governmental missive. However, if you use normal caution as you travel about the country, you should experience no problems just as is true in the U.S. In fact, if you substituted the U.S. mainland for references to Mexico, just about every warning in this notification would apply to some extent.

If you are trying to decide what you need to do to protect yourslf, just remember the introduction to John O´Hara´s Appointment In Samarra:

A wealthy servant approached his master in ancient Mesopotamia and asked pleadingly if he could have the day off to flee to Samarra. When the master asked why, the servant told him that just that morning he had been at the public market when he spotted death staring at him from the crowd. The master, taking pity, gave his permission and the servant fled to Samarra. Later that day, the master was in the market when he spotted death and accosted death asking why he had so frightened his servant wth his frightful stare. Death responded, " I was not staring at him. I was just surprised to see him here as I have an appointment with him later today in Samarra."

If you change your plans to come visit Mexico to cheat death of his due, you are on a fool´s errand.




macmember

Sep 19, 2006, 9:23 PM

Post #7 of 55 (3923 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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Bubba

The news story was on the Radio today, it was warning people about traveling to Mexico due to the high crime to persons. It specifically said the "Border towns and many other parts of Mexico".

I do live in the Dallas suburbs and are aware that Dallas is listed as the highest rate of crime in the US as of today. As I said in my follow up post, my Husband said that he felt safer in the towns we visited recently in Mexico than he does at home. We certainly would not walk the streets at night in most of the Dallas neighborhoods. We did in Mexico and felt safe. Maybe we were naive, maybe not.


Bubba

Sep 19, 2006, 9:45 PM

Post #8 of 55 (3917 views)

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Re: [macmember] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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Interesting that you ay that Macmember. We lived in Oakland and San Francisco for many years and those cities were a hell of a lot scarier than any cities we´ve been to in Mexico (well, DF is in a special category all by itself). That doesn´t mean we should let down our guard whether here or NOB.


raferguson


Sep 19, 2006, 10:06 PM

Post #9 of 55 (3911 views)

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Re: [macmember] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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I, too, believe that Mexican crime statistics are unreliable. As someone said, most crimes are not reported to the police. Victimization surveys, in which people are asked if they have been a victim of crime in the last year, are probably more accurate. Nationwide, about 11% of Mexicans reported being a victim of crime in the last year. That rate goes up to 20% in Mexico City and Baja California. About 1 in 100 households reported being a victim of kidnapping or attempted kidnapping, a significant rate, I think, given the impact of kidnapping on a family. Kidnapping for ransom is a crime problem in Mexico that is extremely rare in the USA. One out of every three Mexicans avoids carrying credit cards for fear of crime. More than half of Mexicans feel unsafe in the community where they live. (This is from an ENSI survey published in January 2006.)

I suspect that a small town is Mexico is generally safer than large cities in the USA, while large cities in Mexico are more dangerous than large cities in the USA. I have seen some evidence that crimes in Mexico are more likely to involve violence or threats of violence than in the USA. For example, carjackings are relatively rare in the USA, but about 60% of auto thefts in Mexico City.

Remember that the homicide rate in Mexico is about double the US rate, and about ten times the rate of Western Europe or Canada.

Of course, crime rates vary from place to place. I behave differently in Mexico city than I would in Guanajuato, which only makes sense. For me, the crime problems don't mean that I don't go to Mexico, only that I am more careful, and I tend to avoid the higher crime areas.

Richard


http://www.fergusonsculpture.com


sfmacaws


Sep 19, 2006, 10:48 PM

Post #10 of 55 (3905 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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Yes, that report is scary. What's also scary Richard is that "About 1 in 100 households reported being a victim of kidnapping or attempted kidnapping". That seems rather amazing. Where do these stats come from?

There are times, late at night, that I wonder whether Mimi and I are nuts to go driving around Mexico and C.A. in our RV. Mostly those times happen when I have been in the US for awhile and start thinking about just staying here. It would be easier in a lot of ways, it would no doubt be safer in that I understand the culture of crime here much too well and that helps the 6th sense to function. Bottom line, it would also be boring and I had a saying back in the 60's "do anything you want but just don't bore me". It seems a bit late to start being safe rather than interested.


Quote
Remember that the homicide rate in Mexico is about double the US rate, and about ten times the rate of Western Europe or Canada.


Is that total or per capita? I mean, who are those Canucks going to kill up there in the frozen north when half the population is in Florida or Mexico all winter? Like the crime stats in the US, if you remove the inner cities and what LE calls 'misdemeanor homicides' - one drug dirtbag kills another - then I think the homicide rate in Mexico would be similar to the other countries mentioned. I could be really wrong though.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Bubba

Sep 20, 2006, 6:49 AM

Post #11 of 55 (3865 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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I have seen some evidence that crimes in Mexico are more likely to involve violence or threats of violence than in the USA.

I´m surprised to hear you say that Raferguson. I would have thought just the opposite was true. I also believe that, while homicides per capita may be higher here, most are related to specific criminal activity such as internecine warfare among drug dealers and that random homicides and other criminal violence are probably less likely to occur here than in the United States.

Could you please share with us the basis for your comment above regarding violence and threats of violence in Mexico in comparisan with the U.S. It seems to me that violent crime is less likely to be underreported than property crime (except, perhaps, for express kidnappings resolved among parties) so the statistics are probably more accurate.


alex .

Sep 20, 2006, 7:54 AM

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Re: [Bubba] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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An example : On saturday some of our relatives caravaned to Guerrero state from the US: five people in two cars. Near the Michoacan/Guerrero state line they were pulled over by late model unmarked cars. They were bound, blindfolded, pistol whipped, robbed of their money, papers and one car. They were left bloody alongside the road, eventually they were discovered and taken to the hospital. They will all live though one is still under medical care for injuries to his back and ribs. They are not reporting the crime, since the bad guys have their papers and therefore their names. Since we have family there, the family would be at risk.
Alex


macmember

Sep 20, 2006, 10:16 AM

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Re: [alex .] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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Alex

WOW........if you don't mind, where/when did this take place? Deserted area or at night/day? Was it all adults? Men and or Women? Were they Mexican, Tourists or Expats? Did they think that the robbers were Police or why did they pull over for them?

I understand that this should NOT make a difference but it seems that in Mexico it may.

Sure hope they are all well soon, but being someone that has been pistol whipped in a robbery, they may very well never be the same inside.

Is this the only incident that you know of or is it fairly common?

Beverly


alex .

Sep 20, 2006, 12:06 PM

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Re: [macmember] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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I have deliberately left details out, just as I have with the hot situation my family got into. Its not to make the account unverifiable, rather, to protect those that have the same last names from retribution. The victims are all men, the vehicles had US plates, it was late afternoon but not yet dark. And, as you suggest, the internal injuries are significant. Just as in our case, the use of late model cars with dark tinted windows leads us to believe that it was not local garden- variety banditos. They are organized via radio communication and strike in desolate areas.
Alex


tony


Sep 20, 2006, 3:26 PM

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Re: [Bubba] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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Hey Bubba,

I also would like to see more "statistics". 1 in 100 means there are more than 1 million kidnappings or near kidnappings!
It is common knowledge that many crimes go unreported everywhere in the world- not just Mexico. I have yet
to visit a poor "safe" city in the US. I have visited may poor "safe" cities in Mexico. I visit Plaza Garibaldi every year
and see families hanging around late at night ,yet this is a dangerous place - go figure!

Here in in low crime Pleasanton, our company was relieved of its complete compressor system - no cops were called.
A few months ago I had a Meth head arrested. Oakland, Richmond and SF murder rates are up this year.

I bothers me alittle when an crime incident is noted as proof that Mexico is dangerous. If my memory serves me
correct, approx 40,000 die from gunshot wounds every year in the US. That means 110 people died today. Should we
print those as proof the US isn't safe? I do like the fact thatthese reports keep the novatos away from Mexico. Tony

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."


Goody2shs

Sep 20, 2006, 9:00 PM

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Re: [tony] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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Wow, this is scary - brings me to ask this question: realizing that it is illegal to bring any type of gun into the country, does anyone know if it is permitted to have some other type of self protective device such as mace in case one should be accosted on the road?


Ron Pickering W3FJW


Sep 20, 2006, 9:33 PM

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Re: [Goody2shs] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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Don't know about that but, Pit Bulls are probably legal..
Getting older and still not down here.


sfmacaws


Sep 20, 2006, 10:01 PM

Post #18 of 55 (3647 views)

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Re: [Goody2shs] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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Pepper spray for personal use is legal.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Bubba

Sep 21, 2006, 6:51 AM

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Re: [alex .] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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It is interesting that Alex´ family´s ordeal took place near the Michoacan/Guerrero border. We are planning a motor tour of the southern Pacific coast this winter from Boca del Cielo, Chiapas to Ajijic, Jalisco. We will only stay on the coast from Boca del Cielo to Acapulco and then head inland. We have received serious warnings against driving the coasts of Guerrero and Michoacan between Acapulco and the Colima state line. This is one lonely highway and we are given to understand that incidents such as described by Alex are not uncommon in that area. Many don´t realize what a violent state Michoacan is in sparsley populated areas of which there are many in that state.

Last year, as we cruised the absolutely deserted highway from Majahual to Xcalac, Quintana Roo just after driving other deserted highways around Celestun, Yucatan among other places, it occurred to us that we were the only car on deserted roads in areas where there were simply no houses, villages or people. There is no protection in those places and one takes one´s chances when driving there alone. As for mace or other types of protection, if Alex´ family had tried it with that gang they might no longer be with us. Those hoods could just as well have been the local cops. Don´t mess with these people whether here or in the U.S.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Sep 21, 2006, 6:53 AM)


esperanza

Sep 21, 2006, 7:08 AM

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Re: [Bubba] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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That particular highway has been trouble for many years. Twelve years ago, my friend and I were in Oaxaca, planning to drive the coast highway to Lázaro Cárdenas, Michoacán and then on to our rural destination near Uruapan. We mentioned our plans to a shopkeeper we'd chatted with several times and he all but got down on his knees and begged us to choose a different route. He told us that his mother and sister, traveling in a first class bus, had been assaulted on that highway. Gold earrings had been ripped from their earlobes; gold chains had been torn from their necks. Every passenger on the bus had been both robbed and injured. This assault was not an isolated incident; the robbers' custom was to place a long log or several large rocks across the highway and assault vehicles when the drivers stopped due to the obstacles.

We changed our plans and drove the toll road.




http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Goody2shs

Sep 21, 2006, 8:37 AM

Post #21 of 55 (3568 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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I could hardly sleep last night after reading these posts, as we're planning a trip down to Mazatlan late November. Was thinking that we should get our heads together and think of ways to avert such incidents. Perhaps when one sees logs in the road ahead or other road blocks, one could just quickly turn around and head the other way? I'll definitely invest in some pepper spray though, perhaps it will make them rethink their evil ways.

Have any of you heard of problems on the toll road from Nogales toward Maz? This will be our first trip by car and we would like to hear any advice or concerns - or experiences! - from any of you who have gone this route.


Goody2shs

Sep 21, 2006, 8:48 AM

Post #22 of 55 (3564 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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Would you be able to point out that particular highway by number on the map perhaps? so we can be sure to avoid it?


bournemouth

Sep 21, 2006, 9:09 AM

Post #23 of 55 (3560 views)

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Re: [Goody2shs] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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If you are going to Mazatlan from Nogales, you will not be anywhere near that highway. If you stick to driving during the day you will have no problems - and problems relating to driving at night are usually livestock on the road, vehicles without lights, breakdowns in your lane etc.

You do sound as if you could do with a Guia Roji atlas of the carreteras of Mexico. It can be bought on line and in Tucson, for instance, from Tucson Map & Flag. It will help you place highways, states etc.

Enjoy - your trip will be fine - you are a long way from Guerrero.


alex .

Sep 21, 2006, 9:11 AM

Post #24 of 55 (3559 views)

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Re: [Goody2shs] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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The toll road to Maz is fine, there are Federales del Camino and military at every toll booth and patrolling inbetween. Late november thru december you will find plenty of company on that road, mostly SUVs with CA plates, luggage racks full of stuff on the rear bumper and on the roof !
Alex


Goody2shs

Sep 21, 2006, 11:13 AM

Post #25 of 55 (3530 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Warnings from the US Dept of State re Mexico

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Thanks so much for your encouragement. We actually already purchased the Guia Roji and think it's great. As you appear to have taken this route before, would you perhaps also know where the best place would be to get Pesos prior to crossing the border at Nogales?
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