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sfmacaws

Aug 27, 2006, 10:19 PM

Post #1 of 43 (4673 views)

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'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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Can you tell the LA Times is my daily online newspaper? For Esperanza, I'll say that I also read as much as I can of Novedades de Quintana Roo http://cancun.novenet.com.mx/ and even sometimes Por Esto! http://www.poresto.net/v06/ By the way, Por Esto was bombed on Wednesday in Cancun. Speculation is that it was because of recent accusations against drug cartels.

Anyway, this is an interesting article in the Times about the health of latin immigrants. http://www.latimes.com/...ll=la-home-headlines

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

Ron Pickering W3FJW

Aug 27, 2006, 10:38 PM

Post #2 of 43 (4658 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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A lot of it is probably due to healthier food and less sugar ridden pop consumed in Mexico prior to the trip North.

Wait til MacDonalds and others become more prevelant SoB and there is a higher disposable income among the lower and middle class and things will probably change.
Getting older and still not down here.

esperanza

Aug 27, 2006, 11:26 PM

Post #3 of 43 (4653 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering W3FJW] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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Ummm...Mexico is the world's largest consumer of Coca-Cola. In addition, Mexicans drink gallons and gallons of other high sugar soft drinks. And although McDonalds and Burger King aren't as prevalent here as they are in the USA (and they're certainly far more expensive here than there), Mexicans eat millions of hamburgers and hot dogs every year.

All that aside, my money is on the minimal consumption of most of the kinds of processed foods that are a way of life in the USA. Frozen foods and many canned foods, both filled with preservatives and other chemicals, aren't eaten here.

Jonna, thanks for mentioning those other two websites--I want to read both of them.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

sfmacaws

Aug 28, 2006, 12:38 AM

Post #4 of 43 (4647 views)

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Re: [esperanza] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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My guess is that part of it is what Esperanza said, less processed food. An interesting suggestion by some researchers is that it is related to a lack of stress.

About Por Esto, I often pick up a copy when in QRoo mainly because it is a really garish paper. Every issue has graphic color pics of accident and murder victims as well as lots of T & A shots. For a marginal spanish reader it is a good mix of lots of pictures and short paragraphs (short at least for Mexico where newspapers clearly have never heard of Jack Webb). The writing is towards the left side of the political scale and it is also very dramatic. If I mention reading something in Por Esto, my more cultured Mexican friends grimace but I've seen copies in some of their homes (I'm sure they would say that the maid left it). My feeling is that everyone reads it but some don't admit it.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

caldwelld

Aug 28, 2006, 6:56 AM

Post #5 of 43 (4608 views)

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Re: [esperanza] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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I keep hearing about all these processed foods we eat NOB but I am not sure what those are. But if french fries and potatoe chips are processed then you are absolutely right because I will bet they are the culprit. Mexicans on the other hand eat a ton of tortillas but they (the corn ones at least) have virtually no fat.
dondon

Rolly

Aug 28, 2006, 7:10 AM

Post #6 of 43 (4605 views)

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Re: [esperanza] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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"Mexico is the world's largest consumer of Coca-Cola." Well, not quite. Mexico has the highest per capita consumption.

Rolly Pirate

esperanza

Aug 28, 2006, 7:46 AM

Post #7 of 43 (4593 views)

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Re: [caldwelld] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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Processed foods:
Frozen foods (including pizzas, prepared dinners, snacks, desserts)
Canned foods
Processed meats (hot dogs, deli meats, ham, bacon)
Convenience foods
Artificially colored foods
Artificially flavored foods
Preservatives in foods
Irradiated foods

Processed foods are those that are modified or completely or partially pre-prepared before reaching the home kitchen. A diet based on processed foods is frequently high in fat, salt, sugar, and preservatives.

More natural food products are those prepared from fresh meats and vegetables, dried grains, dried legumes, etc. The Mexican diet still has a preponderance of those characteristics, although processed foods have made inroads here as well.

Rolly, thanks for the correction about Coca Cola. It was way too late at night for me to have posted!

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

arbon

Aug 28, 2006, 8:55 AM

Post #8 of 43 (4575 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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I have read the article below and can't find any mention of exercise, perhaps that is not considered medically beneficial in Southern California?

or did I miss some thing?

http://www.latimes.com/...ll=la-home-headlines
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

jerezano

Aug 28, 2006, 9:22 AM

Post #9 of 43 (4563 views)

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Re: [arbon] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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Hello,

Arbon, you just might have the answer. The majority of this poor population is composed of workers. They work hard. Their bodies show the result. If they are not obese--unfortunate tendency now for all peoples in the USA--they are usually muscular and healthy.

Adiós. jerezano.

caldwelld

Aug 28, 2006, 9:23 AM

Post #10 of 43 (4561 views)

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Re: [esperanza] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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Just as I thought, 90% urban myth. We expected more.

Your list of "processed foods"

Frozen foods (including pizzas, prepared dinners, snacks, desserts): There is little evidence that frozen fruits and vegetables are unhealthy or unwholesome. Indeed the preponderance of evidence suggests the frozen product to be better than the fresh because the fruits and veg are picked at peak wholesomeness and freshness and quickly processed to retain that goodness. Now when you include pizzas, snacks and desserts I agree that these are unwholesome when consumed in excess but fail to agree that the freshly prepared pizza or dessert is any better for you, when consumed in excess.
Canned foods: Again I have to say that the difference between freshly prepared and canned is marginal and typically contains no more fat than the fresh. It is the choice of product that is the culprit and the quantity consumed.
Processed meats (hot dogs, deli meats, ham, bacon): My impression is that the deli meat sections in Mexico are every bit as large as NOB (maybe bigger) and the arroma from my bedroom window in the morning of the carnita down the street boiling pigskin in a large tub of fat strikes me as a form of processing. Again it is the quantity that is usually the culprit not the product in its own right.
Convenience foods: Now you are grasping at straws for lack of any examples.
Artificially colored foods: Examples of those eaten in quantity enough to make a difference in health please. My strong impression is that NOB artificial oclorings are very closely regulated due to a bad experience once many years ago. Not sure about regs in Mx.
Artificially flavored foods: Like coke for example? Examples unique to NOB please.
Preservatives in foods: Again if these are not covered by frozen and canned above we need some examples.
Irradiated foods: Serioiusly grasping at straws here and politically overladen. No one has ever (repeat ever) found irradiation of foods to have an impact on humans other than to keep them more healthy.

I repeat, this is not rocket surgery, it is the fat-bearing chips and donnuts (processed of course because they are cooked in oil) and the propensity of those NOB to eat too many that makes them less healthy. These were further agravated by the non-saturated fats until recently regulated. But don't try to blame it all on big business again. You can blame it on MacDonald or McDonnut for asking folks to supersize but you have to lay the bulk (pun intended) on the guy buying the stuff who doesn't know when enough is enough.
dondon

tony

Aug 28, 2006, 12:35 PM

Post #11 of 43 (4531 views)

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Re: [caldwelld] 'Latino Paradox' It is the WORK!!

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IMHO it is the hard physical work most of these people do. If you have noticed
on any diet claim - exercise is as important than diet - maybe more. Hard physical
is actually good for you. Even though it goes against our "smarter not harder" philosophy.

I have wondered how come Mexicans in Mexico don't seem to have a high incidence
of heart attacks - given the diet of greasy meats, sugar etc. But even the "chunky"
people can outwork a "fit" gringo - again IMHO.

There have been studies that show as Mexico becomes more "modernized" that diabetes
and heart attacks are on the rise. This also cooincides with studies that show
Mexicans NOB are sicker. IMHO they are not working as hard as they did back home
but are maintaining their traditional diets.

Tony

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."

caldwelld

Aug 28, 2006, 12:40 PM

Post #12 of 43 (4526 views)

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Re: [tony] 'Latino Paradox' It is the WORK!!

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Good points.
dondon

DoDi2

Aug 28, 2006, 1:38 PM

Post #13 of 43 (4510 views)

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Re: [tony] 'Latino Paradox' It is the WORK!!

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wow, this is really true.

One friend from Mexico who has gotten out of shape since moving NOB and myself are both on a nutrisystem diet together after blowing up like blowtillas on a traditional Mex diet without all the walking and exercise that should normally go with it.

While in SOB none of this ever seems like it's a problem and I've often heard it said there that 'aqui la comida no engorda'. While this may be in part because it's fresh and the meat is leaner, it's also has a ton of salt and I've never seen anyone 'de-grease' anything.

I say it's the exercise!

Gringal

Aug 28, 2006, 2:02 PM

Post #14 of 43 (4502 views)

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Re: [DoDi2] 'Latino Paradox' It is the WORK!!

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Medical experts often have a way of leaping over the obvious to arrive at findings.

I'm thinking of some of the people I've known well, where the first generation worked like fools from sunup to sunset with the result that the family portrait was of a bunch of lean people. The diet, like that of most Midwesterners, was as greasy as it gets. Meat and potatoes, with drippings of gravy. Plenty of home made pies, cakes and ice cream; the real deal. Mmmmmm. They lived up into their eighties and nineties, ambulatory until a final, usually short, illness.

Generation 2 left the farm for big city jobs. Didn't change the diet, though. Loved that steak, taters and gravy. Heart attacks, diabetes and the family portrait full of chubbies. Discovered the joys of slow golf and TV. They died young, compared to the old folks.

Generation 3 got a clue and started with the veggies, fruits and leaner meats along with the gym and the walking. Surprise: they're living longer and healthier already.

It going to take some real rocket science to figure this one out, I can tell.

(This post was edited by Gringal on Aug 28, 2006, 2:13 PM)

DoDi2

Aug 28, 2006, 2:34 PM

Post #15 of 43 (4489 views)

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Re: [Gringal] 'Latino Paradox' It is the WORK!!

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I'll tell you another thing I found out.

If you put a few pickled jalepeno slices on top of any nutrisystem dinner it converts magically into a Mexican entree.

Marta R

Aug 28, 2006, 4:13 PM

Post #16 of 43 (4467 views)

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Re: [Gringal] 'Latino Paradox' It is the WORK!!

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We spent a week in Sayula in July, during which I lost five pounds. I think it was because we fell into a typically Mexican meal schedule: small desayuno, largish comida in mid-afternoon, small cena at night. I've tried to maintain this schedule back here in the States, but it's hard -- especially since my belly is convinced that come noon, it had better be filled up or it will go on strike -- and the same at 7:00 pm!

Marta

drfugawe

Aug 28, 2006, 4:18 PM

Post #17 of 43 (4461 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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You all are forgetting what your Mexican friends have told you for years - it's a squeeze or two of "limon" on everything that keeps everyone healthy! But its got to be those little greenish-yellow ones that are generally not available in the US - and that's why the younger members of the families are less healthy.

How soon we forget.
jm
_________________________

"Self-respect: the secure feeling
that no one, as yet, is suspicious."
H.L. Mencken
____________###

roni_smith

Aug 28, 2006, 6:53 PM

Post #18 of 43 (4424 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering W3FJW] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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I have read that adult onset diabetes (type II) is epidemic in Mexico.
------
Planning for Mexico Move Blog

roni_smith

Aug 28, 2006, 7:02 PM

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Re: [roni_smith] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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High fructose corn syrup
that is the culprit more than any other one thing.
------
Planning for Mexico Move Blog

Rolly

Aug 28, 2006, 7:33 PM

Post #20 of 43 (4403 views)

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Re: [roni_smith] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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Not only is Type 2 wide spread, many people don't seek or get proper care. As a result, I see quite a few folks in my town with legs lost to diabetes. One of my friends is just learning to walk on her prostheses.

Rolly Pirate

Judy in Ags

Aug 28, 2006, 8:10 PM

Post #21 of 43 (4390 views)

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Re: [esperanza] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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And they do eat a LOT of fruit. Not too many vegetables among the Mexicans I know, but lots of fruit.

esperanza

Aug 28, 2006, 9:30 PM

Post #22 of 43 (4365 views)

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Re: [Judy in Ags] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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I've never understood why people (not you in particular, Judy, but many, many people) say that Mexicans don't eat many vegetables. My bookshelves are loaded with Mexican cookbooks full of vegetable recipes. Supermarkets and tianguis are jammed with vegetable vendors. Broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, chayote, corn, eggplant, chiles of all kinds, tomatoes, potatoes, onions, jícama, mushrooms, cucumbers, lettuces, cabbage--it is all purchased and all eaten. Many of the preparations (and some of the vegetables) are things that foreigners aren't familiar with, but they are all delicious and nourishing. Plus, of course, fresh tomatoes, onions, and fresh or dried chiles are used to prepare wonderful salsas that are full of vitamins and other nutrients.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Mark Landes

Aug 28, 2006, 9:59 PM

Post #23 of 43 (4355 views)

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Re: [caldwelld] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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Approximately 10,000 new processed food products are introduced every year NOB. As long as the chemicals are considered to be generally regarded as safe (GRAS) the FDA does not require the flavor companies to disclose the ingredients of their additives. All these flavoring companies are in New Jersey. A typical artificial strawberry flavor, like the kind found in a Burger King strawberry milkshake contains (51 ingriedients are named--to cumbersome to repeat). Recommend Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser. Should be required reading for every NOB teenager.
Mark

Ed and Fran

Aug 29, 2006, 6:12 AM

Post #24 of 43 (4361 views)

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Re: [esperanza] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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I've never understood why people (not you in particular, Judy, but many, many people) say that Mexicans don't eat many vegetables. My bookshelves are loaded with Mexican cookbooks full of vegetable recipes.

I don't know if I've said it (in print) but I sure believe that. It's based soley on my observations of Fran's family and their cooking/eating practices, and discussions of 'why'.

I have a pretty good idea of what my suegra buys and cooks, as we live next door and we do the grocery shopping together. Outside of the everpresent pot of beans on the stovetop, 90% of the vegetables my suegra buys are tomatos, onions and chiles, and 100% of that winds up being cooked into sauces as part of the 'guisado'. Maybe every once in a while some potato, calabaza or chayote thrown in. I'd feel safe in saying that she has never cooked vegetables as a side dish, much less ever entertained the idea of preparing a salad. And even if she did, no one else in that household would touch it. Let me qualify that by saying that when corn first comes in season, elotes sometimes show up in the house.

My observations of my cuñadas lead me to believe they cook about along the same lines. A "side dish" to them means a plate of enchiladas.

Is this the exception to the average Mexican housewife? I'd almost guess that this is very common among lower income families. Fran relates that what money that was available for food went for tortillas, salt, chile and frijoles. If there was more maybe you expanded out to arroz, the occasional piece of meat, maybe some tomato or cebolla to cook with it. It certainly never occured to them to spend money on vegetables. Nor did school include anything on nutrition.

Fran had never had a cookbook until we got together. Now she has a bunch of them, and uses them too.

But hey, that's just one more data point.

Best regards

Ed & Fran

caldwelld

Aug 29, 2006, 6:45 AM

Post #25 of 43 (4356 views)

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Re: [Mark Landes] 'Latino Paradox' puzzles medical experts

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Is your point that flavorings are fattening or milkshakes? And what constitutes a processed product? Mr. Schlosser is in the business of selling books. I wonder if his product got the kind of scrutiny the FDA gives a new processed food.
dondon

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