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sfmacaws


Aug 27, 2006, 6:08 PM

Post #1 of 70 (8069 views)

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Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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Here's the article I read in the LA Times http://www.latimes.com/...oll=la-home-business

It is something to watch because it could change how banks in Mexico treat their customers. If Wal-Mart moves into the working class and makes money, the rest will have to take notice. Of course, your hit on this will be colored by your feelings about Wal-Mart. I like them, so I think it will be a good thing.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán





nfabq

Aug 27, 2006, 6:59 PM

Post #2 of 70 (8037 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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I have no doubt that the lower economic group needs relief from the financial institutions.However,it is clear that Wal Mart will demand more than a pound of flesh for its help and the price to be paid in the long run will be very great.
Wal Mart has demonstrated it is the most predatory of businesses and the result of it moving into Mx so strongly will be devastating cultural changes that will damage the lower economic groups as well as everyone else,as it has all over the US.I prefer to pay more and keep Wal Mart out!

Maybe the expats could put together enough money to open a cooperative credit union or similar financial entity and convince Bubba to run an honest business that serves us all and working people,too.It's also an opportunity to have a positive effect on the country we want to spend the rest of our lives in.

Norm


roni_smith


Aug 27, 2006, 8:19 PM

Post #3 of 70 (8013 views)

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Re: [nfabq] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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I am not a particular fan of Wal-Mart, but there can be no doubt that Wal-Mart has lowered the cost of many goods for many lower and mid income shoppers in the USA and saved them lots of money. As far as changing Mexico - the Comercial Mexicana we shopped at in Guanajuato - was it a Wal-Mart? Sure could have been. How about the Chedraui or Mega in Playa del Carmen or the Gigante in San Miguel.

To the best of my knowledge they are Wal-Mart competitors. I need more than an assertion that Wal-Mart will hurt the Mexican working class in order to accept that statement as gospel truth....and I live in Oregon where being anti Wal-Mart is a state of being.
------
Planning for Mexico Move Blog



nfabq

Aug 28, 2006, 2:05 AM

Post #4 of 70 (7986 views)

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Re: [roni_smith] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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Well,for starters, have you noticed how Walmart puts local stores out of business in small towns and closes up entire downtown areas? It has been estimated that Walmart puts about 12 people out of work for every (min. wage) employee it hires! And do you know of any other business that dictates to its suppliers the prices it will pay for the items it buys from them? It is known to have put factories out of business too, by refusing to pay enough for the product to allow a fair profit, putting many more workers out of work. Do you know that when Walmart moves into an existing building it insists on a clause in their lease that forbids the building from being rented to another retail business for a period of 5 years after Walmart moves out? Since those buildings have been modified to be a retail store (Walmart),there is no other business that can use it and those buildings stay vacant for at least 5 years.What do you think happens to the tax base of the small towns when those buildings stay vacant? Who do you think pays with increased taxes or reduced services? Do you know of any other employer that has a majority of its Full Time employees earning so little that they are still under the poverty level and eligible for public medical,food and housing services?

I'm sure I 've only touched on a few ways that Walmart harms people and communities and costs its patrons much more than the few cents they save by shopping there.

If I am only for me,who am I?

Norm


larrys

Aug 28, 2006, 5:27 AM

Post #5 of 70 (7974 views)

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Re: [donemry] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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But, an ex-pats credit union might not be a bad idea......The trick would be the
credit union wold have to have funds available for lending from the minute it opens
(waiting for deposits to build up would take forever) and that seed money for loans would have to be borrowed at the same rate credit unions borrow-to-lend here in the US. Otherwise, borrowing from Mexican banks in order to lend would result in the same rates......Wal-Mart could initally loan it's own money to give it a competitive edge on interest rates. Can a Mexican entity (which the credit union would have to be), borrow money from US banks???? Is there such a thing as a
credit union in Mexico?


roni_smith


Aug 28, 2006, 5:42 AM

Post #6 of 70 (7968 views)

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Re: [nfabq] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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There are Mexican, large mega-store retailers. There are big-box stores in Mexico. You wanna beat up on WalMart, have at it, but I would suggest that the issue is not a particular company, but the effect of large retailers on some parts of Mexican culture and economy.

Bring it into a Mexican context or bash companies elsewhere, that is my opinion and suggestion.
------
Planning for Mexico Move Blog



bournemouth

Aug 28, 2006, 7:03 AM

Post #7 of 70 (7952 views)

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Re: [roni_smith] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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All I can add to this is that the shoppers in Walmart next to Plaza Galerias in Guadalajara yesterday seemed to be shopping up a storm and obviously see good value there. Let's let the Mexican population decide how they feel about Walmart - we and they are free to shop there if we wish and to shop elsewhere if we/they disapprove.


Bubba

Aug 28, 2006, 7:39 AM

Post #8 of 70 (7940 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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WalMart will go the way of Sears and Ford and Kress and countless other human endeavors and that´s OK. Any time humans organize that organization is doomed to failure because that is the way of this world and humans are lazy and corrupt. Mr. Sam Bronfman said that it was the third generation that destroys the enterprise and look at what the idiots Sammy Two Sticks and Edgar Jr. did to Seagrams. This is called life. Sam Walton´s legacy will no doubt be destroyed by his children and their children. That is actually a good thing as renewal and change make life tolerable.

I will tell you this. The best deals my wife got on her new appliances in backward and poverty stricken Chiapas came from Liverpool in Tuxtla Gurierrez and not WalMart and they will deliver all these appliances and other stuff to San Cristabal for $250 Pesos. You can´t beat that..


(This post was edited by Bubba on Aug 28, 2006, 7:41 AM)


sfmacaws


Aug 28, 2006, 2:19 PM

Post #9 of 70 (7871 views)

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Re: [caldwelld] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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WalMart as the devil's spawn has become a very popular religion NOB. Doesn't seem to have caught on SOB yet. Like religion, it's all about believing.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




(This post was edited by jennifer rose on Aug 28, 2006, 4:52 PM)


nfabq

Aug 28, 2006, 6:04 PM

Post #10 of 70 (7835 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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Don't often disagree with you but I must say the issue of "believing" takes you to a blind end. The real trick is to learn the facts and face them realistically.My father used to tell me any fool can get burned by putting his hand in a fire and learn not to do it again. The smart person sees someone else get burned and learns from the other person's experience not to put his hand in a fire.

If I am just for me,who am I?
Norm


roni_smith


Aug 28, 2006, 6:48 PM

Post #11 of 70 (7822 views)

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Re: [nfabq] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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Shop where you want.
Leave the elitist stuff
and selective facts
at your keyboard.

Ideology is anti-fact.
Always.
------
Planning for Mexico Move Blog



nfabq

Aug 28, 2006, 8:06 PM

Post #12 of 70 (7803 views)

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Re: [roni_smith] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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You asked for facts before you could be convinced,you said. When you were presented with facts you could do nothing but demean them but you could neither refute them nor present any of your own.

If I am only for myself,who am I?
Norm


roni_smith


Aug 28, 2006, 8:18 PM

Post #13 of 70 (7797 views)

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Re: [nfabq] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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Whatever Norm.
this is neither the time
nor the place.
For facts or for epistemological discussions.

Let it go.
------
Planning for Mexico Move Blog



nfabq

Aug 28, 2006, 10:15 PM

Post #14 of 70 (7772 views)

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Re: [roni_smith] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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You're right,Ron.It's the time and place to use a little imagination.Just imagine what this monster,as it grows, will do to the Mexican economy and way of life.

If I am only for me,who am I?
Norm


Papirex


Aug 28, 2006, 11:58 PM

Post #15 of 70 (7764 views)

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Re: [nfabq] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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You are making a huge mistake when you compare an American mega store to a Mexican big box store. This is a different country, which you obviously know little about. The economy is different here, and so are the laws. I have yet to see any negative effects when any big box store has opened where I live.

Costco, Home Depot, Liverpool, and Ace Hardware have all built stores here in the last 3 years. Sam’s Club, Office Depot, Office Max, Sears, Burger King, and several other American owned businesses have been here for many years. No little locally owned businesses went belly up, and no one lost their jobs. The truly poor cannot afford to shop at the big stores. The little locally owned stores, abborotes, verdaduras, ropas, etc. will stay in business for them.

Not all big box stores make it here. The French owned Carrefour chain sold all their unprofitable Mexican outlets to the Mexican chain Chedraui. JC Penney didn’t make it here, and neither did Sears and Roebuck, they were both sold to the Carlos Slim conglomerate and are now Mexican owned. Carlos Slim did retain the Sears name, but it is now a separate company.

You are dreaming if you think that Wal-Mex has no serious competition in this country. Many Mexican owned businesses treat their employees brutally. If Wal-Mart treated their Mexican employees the same as they do their employees in The US, it would be the answer to many prayers.

An example of brutal treatment was the experience that one of my wife’s late aunts had. She worked for a store in Mexico City for almost 30 years. The aunt had diabetes and had to have a leg amputated. This meant she had to retire. Her boss had been deducting the taxes for her pension for all those years. He had not turned the funds over to the government.

When she had to quit, he gave her $10 or12000 pesos for a settlement for her pension. This happened in the early 1980s, $10 or12000 pesos at that time was about the equivalent of US$350 Bucks. When she recovered from her surgery, she complained to the government. She was told that since she agreed to it, there was nothing they could do to regain the pension that she was entitled to. Of course, there was no agreement, and she knew nothing about it. Nobody in authority gave a damn. This happened when the former socialist government was still in power. Ever heard of Wal-Mart retaining an employees Social Security taxes and getting away with it?

The “facts” that you have posted are a fable. Can you imagine any American court enforcing a contract that would force a building owner to leave a building vacant with no compensation for five years? Try that in Mexico and see how far it would fly. The American group that was hired to prevent the building of the local Costco store a few years ago put similar false “facts” on the Internet. There were many gullible Americans that believed them. Just because you can read it, doesn’t make it true.

I am a life long union member, and I detest the way Wal-Mart treats their employees in The US. Lying about that company isn’t going to do a bit of good in correcting their behavior up north though. This is Mexico; the two countries are not comparable.

After you have moved here and been here a year or six, you may begin to have some understanding of this county if you make friends with working class people and they trust you enough to tell you how they really feel about some things. Until then, just listen and try to learn.

Rex













"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


Bloviator

Aug 29, 2006, 5:34 AM

Post #16 of 70 (7743 views)

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Re: [RexC] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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We spend almost no time in any major store, but are in the process of buying a TV and maybe a stove and so went to Costco, Walmart, and a couple of Guad electronic stores last weekend. It is truly amazing to see the large number of Mexicans shopping at those stores.

I've just finished reading an economic history of Mexico. It was written in 1968. If the author could/can/has seen the growth of the middle class in Mexico since then, he'd be amazed. It may be a third world nation in the rural areas, and there may be a large number of really poor people still in the cities, but the middle class is growing - has grown from almost nothing to a very significant number.

I have no idea what Walmart and Costco will do for the economy, but your discussion makes sense. As to Walmart NoB, I've been to the original in Bentonville, Ark. I have seen small towns all over the south gutted by Walmart - which then sometimes closes its store, gutting its satellites and leaving the town with almost no places to shop.

I began a boycott of Walmart, almost ten years ago. You can see how successful that was as the company has withered and almost disappeared as a result of my efforts - Oh, that's right it has grown astronomically in the past ten years. So much for my economic power.

Besides, I can't go into many of the older Walmarts which still enforce the 300 pound, fewer than 20 teeth rule. I think the rule has been suspended in the new, modern, upscale Walmarts.


bournemouth

Aug 29, 2006, 6:55 AM

Post #17 of 70 (7728 views)

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Re: [dlyman6500] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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Those of us who live in the Lake Chapala area and patronize Superlake grocery store, know that many of the products sold there are straight from the shelves of Costco - clearly Costco, a big box store, is benefitting a local store. And, I might point out in advance of protesting posts, by far not all the patrons of Superlake are "gringos". Obviously the owner of Superlake is not the only small store who is stocking the shelves from a nearby big box store.


wendy devlin

Aug 29, 2006, 8:19 AM

Post #18 of 70 (7713 views)

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Re: [RexC] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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Rex,
Now that I have read your postings over several years, I see that we both know the same Mexico. Many of the posters on these forums don't seem to have met her yet:)

However I will debate the necessity of actually living in Mexico, ' a year or six,' to begin to have some understanding of this county.

I have met and listened to countless people who have lived or travelled in Mexico for years who know very little of significance about the country. They often say that they have friends but sometimes it seems that these friends might themselves live within certain stratas of society, oblivious to the realities of people, outside their circles.

If a person makes 'real' friends with working class people and enters a relationship of depth enough to where their 'friends' have learned to trust them, they will find out how their friends really feel about some things.

Yes, many people will tell you how they feel about things. Feelings they would tell anybody. Talk is cheap. Take these 'feelings' with a kilo of salt.

IMO, it's when friends share information that you would not access by any other source, that you start, drinking at the well.

Many Mexicans don't give trust, lightly.

Marrying a Mexican perhaps fast-tracks you closer to their family. However, if are an outsider, you can be checked out pretty thoroughly before anything of substance is shared. Social survival depends upon it.

Sometimes people too, feel connected to their employees, maids, gardeners etc. because these people tell them confidences and help them cope. Keep in mind, however that this is not necessarily a relationship of 'equals'. The employees need the job. Other survival strategies sometimes operate in this kind of relationship.


> Many Mexican owned businesses treat their employees brutally.

There are business owners who treat their employees fairly. However when you hear stories like the one about your aunt(I have heard quite a number like that)you realize how little fairness or recourse many employees have in 'labor relations'.

If you have already made your money(for vacations or pensions) in other countries, where labor relations have stabilized and laws are inforced, you might have little idea what it is like for people, living elsewhere.

Having lots of money, compared to the people working around you, makes for a comfortable personal 'cocoon'.


esperanza

Aug 29, 2006, 10:41 AM

Post #19 of 70 (7682 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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RexC, you are 100% on target in your post. Wal-Mex is similar in some of its products to the Wal-Mart stores North of the Border, but that's about where the comparison ends.

For example: Wal-Mex has three different levels of stores here in Mexico. Aurrera Bodega, a full-service store (in Guadalajara, there's one at the corner of Avenida México and Avenida Chapultepec) serves lower income (but not impoverished) families. Wal-Mart (either the standard or the super centers) serves mostly middle income families. Superama (a grocery store featuring a high-end assortment, including a large number of items imported from all over the world) serves upper middle and higher families.

I agree completely with what you and Wendy had to say. Thanks.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









sfmacaws


Aug 29, 2006, 8:31 PM

Post #20 of 70 (7623 views)

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Re: [RexC] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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Rex, you are the man! That was a great post and touched so many areas of truth besides the Wal-Mart boogieman. That should be pinned to the top of one of these forums or saved as a FAQ somewhere. ¡Bravo!


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Jerry@Ajijic

Aug 29, 2006, 8:49 PM

Post #21 of 70 (7612 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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Esperanza, NOB Wal-Mart I believe operates under only one name but they do or did have 5 different pricing plans depending on the competition and "what the traffic would bear". The thing about Wal-Mart that worries me a little is the same thing that might have been wrong with Standard Oil, AT&T, Microsoft, etc. They tend to eliminate competition, fairly but they do it. Companies in this kind of a position tend to set the prices and terms their suppliers can offer and there is also at some point a possibility that they will say "sell to anyone else and we will not buy from you". I think that the Sherman Anti Trust (monopoly) Act was a very good law unfortunately it does seem to be enforced now.


esperanza

Aug 29, 2006, 9:03 PM

Post #22 of 70 (7604 views)

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Re: [Jerry@Ajijic] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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Jerry, there is nothing fair about Wal-Mart's methods of eliminating competition. And the Sherman Anti-Trust Act has been modified in ways that allow Wal-Mart to do business in the ways that it does; it's not that it's being ignored.

Read this: http://www.fastcompany.com/...zine/77/walmart.html and read the Wal-Mart article in the July 2006 issue of Harpers Magazine. Your eyes will be opened.

Nevertheless, what RexC says in his post about Wal-Mex is accurate. The facts are contradictory, but we have to remember that we are talking about Wal-Mex in Mexico, not Wal-Mart in the USA. The end result may be the Wal-Martization of Mexico, but for the moment...for the moment...RexC is correct.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Cynthia7

Aug 29, 2006, 9:11 PM

Post #23 of 70 (7598 views)

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Re: [Jerry@Ajijic] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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I find the pricing plan for Walmart interesting because I have been returning things to Walmart for years NOB and I have never found any price discrepencies. If I bought a bedspread in Little Rock and took it to a son's apartment in California or Pennsylvania an d it didn't fit or color was wrong I would return it there and price was equal. Same in Mexico..I bought 3 blue plastic glasses at Superama and 3 more at Bodega and price was the same. I was always amazed because I know what property costs in Arkansas and in California and it is very different. I am goning to ask about the 5 price plans.


Jerry@Ajijic

Aug 30, 2006, 8:20 AM

Post #24 of 70 (7527 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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Esperanza, I should have said Wal-Mart's competition methods are legal not fair but then so were AT&T, Standard Oil's, etc. Yes, the Sherman Anti Trust Act has been modified and but even in it's present form it should not allow all of the mergers in just about every industry. Wal-Mart is eliminating competition in (to me) a legal manner but the oil companies. banks, drug companies, electronics companies, radio, TV companies, etc. are eliminating competition by buying them out and I do not think eleminating competition by buying them out is legal when it means having control of a market. It certainly is not good for the public as once they have eliminated the competition they RAISE prices. Keeping competition alive to me is VERY important in anything. If, when I worked for a bank I could have eliminated the competition I could have just made bunches of money by HIGH service charges without having to make loans which were a headache.


alex .

Aug 30, 2006, 8:39 AM

Post #25 of 70 (7522 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Something to watch, Bank of Wal-Mex

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I hate it when reality messes up my vision of Utopia. And what is fair, just, and right turn out to have nothing to do with real life.
As for shopping, there is a place for everything: when I buy a washing machine I go to Electra, not the corner market. When I need ONE egg or ONE tomato, I don't go to Costco. Neither business is threatened by the other.
Alex
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