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Bloviator

Jun 16, 2006, 2:12 PM

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Excluded From Expatriates

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Whenever I read of someone who is adamant that they must live away from "the ex-pat community" or from the "gringos," particularly one who does not speak Spanish but wants to live in a total Mexican environment, I wonder what reason they have for such a stance.

Would really like to hear why people feel that way.



waltw

Jun 16, 2006, 7:06 PM

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Re: [dlyman6500] Excluded From Expatriates

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I'm not for total isolation. Particularly when living in Mexico long term, I think one feels the need to talk to expatriates and share common experiences.

However, if you are not fluent in Spanish, living apart integrates you more quickly into the culture, forces you to learn Spanish, and you adapt more quickly. Many people on this forum say the quicker you learn Spanish the richer your experience. This is true.

Another reason would be cost. A touristy area with lots of expatriots tends to drive up prices.


belgique


Jun 16, 2006, 7:22 PM

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Re: [dlyman6500] Excluded From Expatriates

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I'm probably one of the accused here based on some questions we've asked (e.g., inter alia, Tepic) :-) but in my defense, we're not as hard over on this as I may have indicated. I lived much of my life in countries on military bases which were little America's...nothing wrong with that except that you had to go out of your way to learn about the country you were in and its citizens. I did that. I just do not want to retire to an area where most of the people I see and deal with are just like me or I should just stay where we are now...a very lovely place with the the finest people ever. As seasoned citizens, we want to keep young, at least in thinking, and a bit of a challenge and forcing function to learn the language and customs will achieve that. Yes, we want to go native, but not overly so. I'm lazy...if everyone speaks English, then I don't try. But if they don't speak English, then I view it as a challenge and go for it...this is easy and fun in a market but not in a hospital! Thus for us, it is a matter of degree...we want the best of both worlds. Hope this helps...and your question is a good one. Steve


Bloviator

Jun 17, 2006, 5:44 AM

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Re: [belgique] Excluded From Expatriates

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Those answers give excellent reasons, particularly the need to isolate oneself from English in order to learn the language. We live in a so called gated community that most consider gringo. Eight of the ten closest homes are owned by Mexicans (only one of whom speaks English). We get along and speak with them, but don't spend much time doing so as it is easier to speak with English speakers. Also, my wife - the "If they're in our country, they should speak our language" kid - has come to think that learning Spanish is too hard. If we lived in a Mexican town, I would have to learn more and quicker. She would have to find out that she can learn Spanish.


Bubba

Jun 17, 2006, 5:59 AM

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Re: [dlyman6500] Excluded From Expatriates

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I agree with your wife: foreigners wanting to live in the States should learn how to speak English and she should be required to learn Spanish to live in Mexico. One of the major problem I have with a lot of the foreigners living in Ajijic is that they cannot be bothered to learn Spanish and it is a real shame.
Brigitte


1ajijic


Jun 17, 2006, 6:06 AM

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Re: [dlyman6500] Excluded From Expatriates

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No criticism intended of those who want to live in totally Mexican areas. But, it is usually those who have not yet done it who reply. Generally, those areas devoid of foreigners will have infrastructures quite different (meaning much more primitive) from the life long environment of most. When you are living a primitive life style , just like camping out, a few days or a week is quaint, but, it gets old real fast. Most of us want our creature comforts, especially in old age.

Those who don't choose to learn Spanish end up paying for the privilege just like those who choose to drive 50 mph on cobblestones or not slow down for topes.
http://www.newbeginningsmexico.com

(This post was edited by 1ajijic on Jun 17, 2006, 6:15 AM)


belgique


Jun 17, 2006, 6:21 AM

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Re: [Bubba] Excluded From Expatriates

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Dang, I thought I was going to agree with Bubba and now see it was Mrs. Bubba.

To add to my confession of laziness: In travels Brussels I struggled to learn French. I got to where I did ok. My proudest moment was once when a native came up to me on the metro platform and asked a question in French which I answered in French. I was proud because: I must have looked like a native and not a tourist; I understood the question; I answered the question; the person did not reveal surprise or shock with the way I answered the question. But, here's the laziness: if Daniele is with me I don't even try and let her do the talking (plus if I try she'll correct me that my "arrgh" or some other gutteral sound wasn't right :-) )

We've always done weired things on our travels and go places that most people don't (like piling in to the station wagon "buses/taxi's in Tijuana with the residents rather than a taxi). We enjoy talking with the natives that are not connected with the tourisim industry to understand their life. We know, vacation is one thing and residing is another...that's why we'll take it slow and easy.


Bubba

Jun 17, 2006, 7:36 AM

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Re: [1ajijic] Excluded From Expatriates

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Good point 1Ajijic. I was just commenting on that in a discussion of Tlacotalpan, Veracruz on an adjacent thread. People who extoll the virtues of living in areas devoid of foreigners are normally speaking from lack of experience. Even if one is fluent in Spanish, that doesn´t mean that an isolated community will fulfill their needs. Just ask yourself if you would be happy in some poverty stricken redneck burg in the U.S. where everybody speaks the same language as do you and the local gourmet treat is deep fried zuchinni, pickled eggs and draft beer.

We just returned from an ecotour of the highlands around Oaxaca City and stayed in cabins in magnificent wooded surroundings. We had good food but how often can one eat trout cooked on a wood fire outdoors before one can no longer even tolerate the thought of trout. The deep and silent forest with pritine rivers was a real pleasure to experience for a couple of days. We enjoyed building a fire in our cabin and sitting there sipping a beer until they turned off the generator at 10:00PM. We could not have been happier, on the other hand, to get back to a nice restaurant in Oaxaca City and walk streets filled with life and activity.

People, whether in the U.S. or Mexico, love small town life because they have jobs or family there and if you don´t belong then you really and truly don´t belong. I grew up in a small southern town and loved it. My family is now all disbursed or dead and you couldn´t pay me to live there today. Get over it.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Jun 17, 2006, 7:40 AM)


Don


Jun 17, 2006, 9:26 AM

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Re: [1ajijic] Excluded From Expatriates

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"Generally, those areas devoid of foreigners will have infrastructures quite different (meaning much more primitive) from the life long environment of most. When you are living a primitive life style , just like camping out, a few days or a week is quaint, but, it gets old real fast. Most of us want our creature comforts, especially in old age"

I live in a town of about 35,000 and am one of about five foreigners living here. The above statement is far from the truth. It might fit some small out of the way towns, but not all. I have my creature comforts and I surely am not camping out. You will never know what it is like until you try it and speak from experience. I speak very little and poor Spanish. I also take classes in Spanish twice a week. You will be surprised how many Mexicans speak some English and once they know you, enjoy maintaining their English by speaking it.


sfmacaws


Jun 17, 2006, 9:27 AM

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Re: [Bubba] Excluded From Expatriates

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Not to mention that whether it is bum-plucked Alabama or a small town in Veracruz, the level of education and involvement in the world outside is likely to be low. Add to that the level of superstition and belief in a lot of magical behavior on the part of the universe will be very high. If you want to be the patrón of some small town, you can do that and have a few minutes of feeling all powerful before the realization hits you that you are their pet chump.

Most of these rural places are nice to visit, the people are interesting to talk to for an afternoon but within a week I'd be hopping the first thing smoking to get out.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Bloviator

Jun 17, 2006, 11:36 AM

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Re: [Don] Excluded From Expatriates

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Is it not correct that you have Mexican family? That would change the equation quite a bit. For a couple with no connections and little Spanish to arrive out of the blue, would take a really adventurous pair.

All of a sudden, I realized that is exactly what my daughter did. She got on a plane with only a smattering of Spanish learned from her mother's housekeeper, landed in Santiago with a back pack and no where to go. Found a place to board and began to study Spanish. A year later, she returned (as planned) with enough Spanish to pass the tests to be a bilingual teacher (which sort of frosted a lot of the California hispanics who could not pass the test) and a tremendous cultural experience. She has never expressed anything but positive thoughts about the whole experience.


Gringal

Jun 17, 2006, 11:40 AM

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Re: [Bubba] Excluded From Expatriates

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You have that right. I had the "opportunity" to be in a tiny redneck community in the U.S. for awhile. That got very old, very fast.

A few generations ago, many of our ancestors emigrated to the U.S. for reasons ranging from religious persecution to the potato famine. The first thing they did when they arrived was to seek out others from their home country for comfort, their native language, their favorite foods and a shared culture. They adapted and learned English, but they still called themselves Italian or Irish or whatever. It took a long simmer in the melting pot to change that. Traditions endure today.
What do Mexicans do when they come to the U.S.? Same story.

Expats who learn Spanish have an easier time than those who don't, the same as Mexicans who live in the U.S. and learn English. That is a no-brainer. However, there is no reason we shouldn't enjoy the company of our fellow expats and our own shared culture. Some expats will be total jerks we wouldn't hang out with back where we came from. Some will be people we enjoy. Pick your flavor.

Anyone who says they don't want to live around "a bunch of expats" leaves me scratching my head. It's such a broad statement. I do undertand why someone would wish to isolate themselves from people in general. That's a different matter.

Meanwhile, I struggle with my Spanish and am grateful for the English language library downtown.


norma2002

Jun 17, 2006, 11:46 AM

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Re: [1ajijic] Excluded From Expatriates

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I live in a nice area of Guadalajara and I don't think anyone would describe it as "camping out." However, I am the only English-speaking person in my colonia, so I have to use my "bastardized" Spanish. I have friends in the colonia that I do things with, play cards, go to movies, lunch, chat, etc. who don't speak English so I'm forced to use my poor Spanish. I also have English-speaking Mexican friends, as well as American friends, so I don't have to feel too isolated. I am not comfortable in a small town -- I want to have reasonably priced amenities such as the supermarket, movies, symphony, good restaurants, etc. available and here in Guad they are. I'm sure I could live more cheaply in a small town (I don't have a lot of retirement money) but if I can live in a large city, why not.


Don


Jun 17, 2006, 12:27 PM

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Re: [dlyman6500] Excluded From Expatriates

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It is true, I have Mexican relatives living here, but there is another U.S. couple in town that have been living here and knew no one here when they came. There is another gentleman from Oregon, that speaks very little Spanish, that rents a duplex here year around. I might add that he pays $100 U.S. per month for this 2 bedroom unfurnished unit. He lives here 5 months out of the year.
Before moving here, I checked out Guadalajara, Chapala Area, Colima, Colima and the town where my wife was born. I chose Sayula for its location and it had what I wanted for retirement. If living in a heavily English speaking community was necessary, I would have retired to Florida or Arizona. I was looking for a town where I could slow down and relax. Also to allow my wife to be close to family after living in the U.S. for over 25 years. Many people look at Mexican towns and think they are run down and the people don't care about their towns. This is far from the truth. When I asked relatives why some homes may look run down on the outside but are beautiful and well kept on the inside I was told the following. "Here in Mexico we live inside our homes".
I don't need an English speaking community to entertain me. I enjoy my relaxed town and my many new friends and neighbors. The wife and I have no problem entertaining ourselves without the help of relatives. We enjoy traveling within and outside of Mexico. I am now in the U.S. having some health problems corrected and I have had some of my Mexican neighbors and friends ( other than relatives) call me here to check on me. What more could I ask for than to have a good town, friends and neighbors.


Bubba

Jun 17, 2006, 3:21 PM

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Re: [dlyman6500] Excluded From Expatriates

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Well, I probably shouldn´t rejoin this discussion but will try to address Dlyman´s original question as to why a gringo expat such as myself would seek to flee areas with concentrations of expats and live in a "totally Mexican environment". And this is not simple blather since we currently live in Ajijic - the ultimate highland gringo enclave - and just bought a home in San Cristobal de Las Casas, Chiapas - a colonial city of about 130,000 people, 300 or so of whom are foreign residents, mostly European and a town where virtually no one speaks English. San Cristobal is not only within spitting distance of Central America but was part of Guatemala for many years before joining Mexico by referendum in the 19th century (and guess who voted in that referendum?).

There are a number of reasons for this move to such an extraordinarily beautiful and sophisticated colonial town in a spectacular setting with an endlessly interesting cultural mix. I´m just going to address Dlyman´s inquiry and skip the myriad other reasons such a place is attractive.We looked long and hard for three years for that special place away from the gringo enclaves but one thing we learned along the way was we were not going to settle year ´round in some hick town just to get away from gringos. I am from Alabama, my wife is from France and we lived in the San Francisco Bay Area for over 30 years and this I know. In any of those places or Mexico or Bolivia or South Africa, a hick town is a hick town and, unless you have family or a vocation or avocation there, small towns with their false sense of self importance made worse by their isolation, will either drive you crazy or grind you down until you actually begin to look forward to those pickled eggs and beer.

So, here goes, Dlyman. The reason to seek out a place - not just any place but an interesting and challenging place in Mexico (rather than some redneck backwater) - away from the gringo colonies - is that that is the only way you can hope to even begin to become fluent in the local language and, more importantly, begin to comprehend the culture living in the land you have adopted as a place to live. That doesn´t mean you will succeed in immersing yourself in the language and culture of Mexico just by moving to a such a community but one thing is for sure. Unless you are extraordinarily talented, your decision to remain in a community with a huge gringo influence will guarantee your failure to achieve that goal.

Many expats retire at Lake Chapala and love the gringo scene. The retirement community here is very active and there are a thousand things to do besides learn the dreaded Spanish . That is fine for people who like that sort of thing. After all, it is as good a retirement community as one would find in the Amercian midwest but with great weather all year. There are, however, many of us who would like to become better acquainted with our host culture and that is damn hard to do when the whole Lake Chapala schtick is intended to make you feel at home in your own skin and language while associating with fellow countrymen and dipping those Ritz Crackers in that there Velveeta.

I might add as a personal observation. The type of expat moving to Lake Chapala is now changing. There is less and less the inquisitive foreigner looking at his or her retirement as an adventure and a chance to respectfully adapt to a foreign land. The new immigrant appears to be more interested in importing his or her culture here and demanding local acquiescence to those norms. He or she appears to be louder and more demanding and insisting upon exhibiting those crass characteristics for which my fellow countrymen are well known overseas. This trend is bound to become worse and worse as the boomers retire and overwhelm this place. Not my cup of tea.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Jun 17, 2006, 3:58 PM)


Ron Pickering W3FJW


Jun 17, 2006, 4:28 PM

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Re: [Bubba] Excluded From Expatriates

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I might add as a personal observation. The type of expat moving to Lake Chapala is now changing. There is less and less the inquisitive foreigner looking at his or her retirement as an adventure and a chance to respectfully adapt to a foreign land. The new immigrant appears to be more interested in importing his or her culture here and demanding local acquiescence to those norms. He or she appears to be louder and more demanding and insisting upon exhibiting those crass characteristics for which my fellow countrymen are well known overseas. This trend is bound to become worse and worse as the boomers retire and overwhelm this place. Not my cup of tea.


Well said Bubba. That's why I said "There's not much of Mexico left in Ajijic" a month or two ago after visiting in March. It didn't take more than a week to figure that out. I'm looking foreward to retiring down there some time, somewhere next year but as far as I'm concerned, the only thing I'm bringing with me is my motorhome. I have no problem whatsoever about learning to speak Spanish at my age (65). In fact I look foreward to it and the culture change.
Good luck in San Cristobol.

Ron

Getting older and still not down here.


Anonimo

Jun 17, 2006, 4:34 PM

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Re: [dlyman6500] Excluded From Expatriates

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The original post annoyed the heck out of me, as it set up what to me was an artificial "straw man". But, now, the steam has subsided. I don't think it's an "either/or" choice. There are different options available. Here's what we choose.

I speak reasonable Spanish, and my wife and I don't want to live in a Norteamericano enclave, but in a Mexican environment. We enjoy having both Mexicans and Norteamericanos as friends.
We are soon moving to a modest, but very nicely fitted house, in a small, outlying Mexican village. (Definitely in "el campo".) The town of Pátzcuaro is 15 or 20 minutes away, and Morelia about the same.
Our nearest neighbor and friend will be a retired American man, who first showed us the place. We plan to continue to get together with both our Mexican and American friends. We hope to become acquainted, at least, with our local neighbors. Our preference is to live in a diversified environment. That is why we choose to "'live away from "the ex-pat community'". I wouldn't have chosen to live in a retirement community back in the States. It's more than an economic choice; we're not "joiners". We like choice and diversity.

Superstition is where you find it. (That was a red herring issue, IMO.)

Our preferences are not a "stance", nor are we "adamant". It's just our choice to live where and how we choose.

"En Boca Cerrada No Entran Moscas."

Saludos,
Anonimo


Bloviator

Jun 18, 2006, 5:19 AM

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Re: [Anonimo] Excluded From Expatriates

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Anonimo and others who might have been offended. I wasn't in the least attacking those who choose to live away from expatriates. I was just curious as to why they would make that choice. Some have made it sound as if they hate expatriates and think that we are terrible people. Those people really do rouse my curiosity. I wonder what experiences they have had to make them so bitter toward their fellow US or Canadian citizens.

Those who have responded in this discussion have very interesting and well thought out ideas. Those who choose to live in real Mexico seem to have good reasons for doing so - learn the language (much more necessary and easily done in such an environment), live among family, previous experience in American enclaves overseas, which can be very stultifying), financial reasons (much less costly than a gringo enclave), and cultural assimilation (especially the anthropologist who hopes to do oral histories of the locals in Jocotepic - that really impresses me. I sit many evenings in the plaza in Ajijic and watch the old men sitting together and wonder about their lives).

I thank all of you for your insight, but really do hope one of those who really hate the thought of being around us will respond. That would be really interesting. Bubba cheated. He presented a very well thought out and insightful expression of why one would choose to live outside the expatriate community due to dissatisfaction with such community.

I do take exception to one thing he and other said. Ajijic is as gringo as Mexico can get except for someplace like Cabo Wabo - as far as I know. But it is still Mexico. More than half of the people are Mexican. Many live Mexican lives and we can have a good deal of interaction with them if we choose to do so. As I said, only one other NoB couple lives in our corner of gringo Villa Nova, along with about six Mexican families.

Unfortunately, Bubba is right. We don't generally make that choice, but take the easy way out, not learning fluent Spanish that would make us comfortable visiting with our neighbors (only one of whom speaks English), spending time with other gringos, spending time on the internet with you folks, etc.


(This post was edited by dlyman6500 on Jun 18, 2006, 5:36 AM)


pipjane


Jun 18, 2006, 7:01 AM

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And for those of us who are not American or Canadian, like myself, it's a joy to be surrounded not only by Mexican families but also those exotic members of our ex-colonies! It feels pretty 'foreign' here in SMdA to me. The Mexican's don't always understand my Spanish and the North Americans don't understand my English.
It reminds me of the time I was living in DC and my hairdresser asked me where I was from. I told her I was from England and she said: Oh, really? You speak our language very well! (True story.)


Judy in Ags


Jun 18, 2006, 7:05 AM

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Re: [dlyman6500] Excluded From Expatriates

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I guess I might as well jump in here since I don't believe I mentioned this subject in my blog "J and J Choose Mexico." I thought about mentioning that we didn't want to live in an expat community, but didn't come up with a way of saying it without sounding exclusionary and that I don't want to be. I have really appreciated all you folks on this forum, regardless of the type community you live in.

It was not difficult for us to choose a non-expat community since we had lived in that type situation for 8 of the 10 years we lived in Brazil. John went to Brazil when he had just turned 18. We recently had a visit here from a woman our age who spent many of her growing up years in Brazil. Both of them expressed that they never quite felt at home back in the U.S. I have witnessed the reality of that in John. He's so much more "at home" here in Mexico than he was in the U.S. How about you, Ron Smith, have you ever had those feelings? And any others who grew up out of the U.S.?

I guess then, our greatest reason for choosing a non-expat community is that we are very comfortable here. As far as missing time with our fellow-countrymen goes, I missed it a lot as we knew no expats for the first 2 1/2 years we lived here. Then, it was just as if they came pouring into our lives. We now know and enjoy several expat families, so we have a balance. Of course, even when we were living "back in Kansas" we spent quite a bit of time with our Mexican customers and neighbors, although we were still in the babyhood stages of learning Spanish.

As a sidebar, we will have the privilege of seeing some dear Brazilian friends the end of July so yesterday John and I began speaking (or trying to) Portuguese to each other. (We returned to the US from Brazil in 1971.) What a struggle! All those words we tried so hard not to use when we first started to speak Spanish, we're now struggling to use temporarily. Oh, well, we figure it's a good exercise for our brains!


Georgia


Jun 18, 2006, 7:36 AM

Post #21 of 50 (4984 views)

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Re: [dlyman6500] Excluded From Expatriates

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Where I live, we were the only gringo couple in the neighborhood until a couple of years passed. We are in a "suburb" of Jocotepec. A colonia. We did not know much about the area when we bought our house. We just liked the looks of the place and the layout of the house. So much for well thought out research. We've never once regretted our choice. We are a multicultural family, so whether we were near Americans, Mexicans, Ecuadorians, Colombians or Italians it really didn't matter to us. We both speak several languages. So, that was not an issue. We found Ajijic too claustrophobic, being country mice at heart.

But, after being here a few years an incident in Ajijic brought home to me why I was so comfortable where I am, and why I am happy I did not choose a gringo enclave: I've told this story before, so bear with me if you've heard it: in a store in Ajijic a senior gringo berated sharply the personnel in a store because they did not speak English. He said if they wanted to stay in business they should speak English "because, after all, this is an English speaking community." My husband was infuriated and wanted to punch the guys lights out. I explained the reality of Mexican jails and we left. He still gets puffy in the neck, eyes bulge, and face turns red when he recounts this episode.

I was puzzled when we were looking at real estate why the agent objected to our looking at the house we wanted to see "so far out." First she said the "far out" business ("far out" from what, I wondered), then she said it was a Mexican community (well, duh, we are in Mexico, I thought) then she said we'd have to speak Spanish to live here. Well, we do, but we hadn't shared that particular tidbit with her. I was unaware of the pre-eminence of Ajijic.

Anyway, it was a good lesson for me. I'm not comfortable living cheek by jowl with a bunch people in the first place. But secondly I do observe that the presence of large numbers of English speakers and their cultural norms has had an effect on the local populace in terms of attitude that is not always to my liking. It is difficult for me to describe this different attitude, but I think it is a bit of the insensitivity in daily matters that we were leaving behind us.

But that's my personal baggage, and having said that, there seems to be a place here to suit everyone's needs. Certainly, most of my friends from my former life would be most uncomfortable with the choices we have made as would many of the ex-pats from whatever country who reside here in Mexico.

"one size fits all" doesn't in Mexico. There seems to be something for everyone. You just need to know yourself first. There's no right or wrong place to choose, you have to choose what's right for you. Just like everything else in life.


Bloviator

Jun 18, 2006, 9:45 AM

Post #22 of 50 (4949 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Excluded From Expatriates

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Our good friends live in the middle of Jocotepec. They speak little Spanish, but are learning rapidly. They are constantly grateful for their acceptance in the community. They have gone through a major fire and help from the neighbors, a major problem with electricity and help from the neighbors, going NoB, while the neighbors took care of home, garden, and animals, and a myriad of other experiences with help from the neighbors. They are regularly invited to Mexican weddings, etc. They are very happy in Mexico. They do visit Ajijic regularly, but seem to be doing so much less often as time goes on.

I'm interested in the idea of city vs village living. I have lived in California metropoli that even Bubba with his vast knowledge of rural CA has probably not heard of - Mountain Ranch, Jenny Lind, Twain Harte, Bonsall - and other small towns - San Andreas, Rocklin, Fallbrook, Oakdale, Mill Valley - as well as cities - Oakland, Berkeley, San Mateo, San Rafael, LA. Living in a village or small town is a special experience, just as is living in a large city. I've enjoyed both, but find that small town living is best for me. Living in Ajijic, no matter how much people complain about the crowding is still village living. I love walking through the streets and having people greet Roxy and Pepito by name - some even say hello to me. I love going to the various stores where they tolerate my Spanish, even if their English is much better. I love going to a restaurant and joining or being joined by friends or even strangers. I prefer restaurants like La Bodega and now La Tasca, which have both a Mexican and gringo clientele and places like Tio Domingo which has a simple Mexican ownership and management. I love the slow pace, but wouldn't want it any slower.

There are people we see almost daily on the streets. Some are friends, some casual acquaintances (Mexican and gringo), and some regularly ignore us. I enjoy the Hola, Buenas Dias-Tardes-Noches and smile exchanges with the Mexicans on the streets. We are also amazed when we go to a charity event or one of the three top restaurants and see people we never see anywhere else. I guess they are the ones who are fortified behind the guarded gates - a misnomer if there ever were one. I doubt that there are more than two guarded gates in the area that I can't drive through with a nice smile and a buenas dias.

Bubba is probably correct that one can't assimilate in a place like Ajijic, but one can get a feel for the culture - or not, if barricaded in the enclaves. I suspect he is right about those people also, they just want a Del Webb lifestyle without the humidity of South Carolina, the heat of Phoenix, or the problems of other NoB retirement communities. Obviously they aren't seeking to escape the conformity as most of those places are made up of uniform very non Mexican McCastles.


(This post was edited by dlyman6500 on Jun 18, 2006, 9:52 AM)


Oscar2

Jun 18, 2006, 12:08 PM

Post #23 of 50 (4907 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Excluded From Expatriates

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"one size fits all" doesn't in Mexico. There seems to be something for everyone. You just need to know yourself first. There's no right or wrong place to choose, you have to choose what's right for you. Just like everything else in life.


“There is no right or wrong, you have to choose what’s right for you.” After listening to some interesting perspectives and soul-searching responses, one such as myself, can’t help but come away appreciating Georgia’s closing take: “There is no right or wrong way, it’s a matter of choice.”

Personally I like that perspective after milling over countless decisions many of you/us have experienced and knowing well many need an initial sampling, or a taste of Mexico for necessary decision making.

Getting a feel for “what is,” where ever you maybe tells the mind many things and creates “mindful” perspectives based on past and future concerns. Mind based concerns whose intensity (based on how load the noise is) can create false illusionary fears which can and are known to create even more “resistance” to change.

The key here is the “resistance” the mind relies on to further entrench oneself into amazingly believing that what the mind is saying is “absolute” truth. Wrong, mindset needs your undivided attention “always” and why, to keep you in control and always in check.

Unfortunately for many, the minds beckon call is omnipresent in the form of fears, anguish, doubt and a host of negatives which are created by the more resistance given to those same false illusionary fears it creates.

We go through life in acceptance of this as normal, while entrenchment gets even deeper creating even a smaller protective comfort zone provided by our mind based “resistance” to unbearable change.

So what does this have to do with Mexico, perhaps nothing or everything. Some of you have reached a portal of “conscious awareness” that is beyond the trivial mind based fears and in essence, “surrendered” to what is.

It appears Judy in Ags, Anonimo, Rolly, Esperanza, Jennifer, Jerezano, and Bubba, just to name a few, seem to be guided by a kind of awareness that is beyond the “limiting” false mind based illusionary fears of past and future. By surrendering to “what is” (and this can be Mexico or Tinbucktoo), frees the spirit, sheds obstructive “resistance” and allows one to go for it with the kind of pleasure your entitled too.

It appears that after 5 years, Bubba’s experiences now tell well what has to be done. Not just for a place to physically be but more important, a place to be within.

In my own convoluted way, it makes real sense, to give way to emersion into a place of choice where one may live and just be, for years to come. If you disagree, ask yourself again, why not?

(This post was edited by Oscar2 on Jun 18, 2006, 3:58 PM)


1ajijic


Jun 19, 2006, 6:44 AM

Post #24 of 50 (4775 views)

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Re: [dlyman6500] Excluded From Expatriates

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Couldn't have said it any better. Georgia is also right. Everyone has a different background and needs to find the situation that is right for him/er. There are so many alternatives. We always owned large rural homes where we knew maybe one or two neighbors after both growing up in small towns. We loved getting back to the small town and as said it IS very Mexican and we should be working to keep it so.
http://www.newbeginningsmexico.com


bournemouth

Jun 19, 2006, 8:33 AM

Post #25 of 50 (4745 views)

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Re: [dlyman6500] Excluded From Expatriates

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I'm curious to know why so many of us seem to get upset at the notion of gated communities. Mexicans live in gated communities and we don't seem concerned by that fact. The gated communities in the Lakeside area seem to have a mixture of nationalities living within those gates. No, we don't live in one and do not particularly care to do so, but I don't understand the low grade hostility to them and sweeping assumptions that if one lives there, one can never understand the local culture.
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