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sonful

Apr 9, 2006, 10:07 AM

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Rude Mexican's

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I have observed a problem while in Mexico (Ensenada) and while there last week I actually said someting. The problem of Mexicans cutting in line in front of you. I was in the supermarket on a busy Saturday, waiting in line (forever) for the weigh in at the pastry counter, and just before getting to the front of the line, a young mexican girl (maybe 18 or 20) scoots in right in front of me. Well, I had had it with this practice, so I politely said (in the few Mexican phases I know) "No passe, por favor" The girl gigled and with that grabed her friend, now behind me, and pulled her up in front of me.

I stood there thinking. Now what? Do I just clobber her? Maybe, I should take this gooey pastry and open the box, and dump it on her head.

Then a few days later I was in the process of doing a paralell park (backing into a parking space on the street that I had waited for) As I was backing into the space, a Mexican came down the street, swerved his car nose into the parking spot, preventing me from completing the park, and would not move. I was really turned off by this behavior. I sat there for a momment not moving, thinking to myself - Is this what they mean by a "Mexican Stand Off?"

Just curious as to how prevalant this is with you guys living there, and how you go about handling it. The last thing I want to do is be an adversary in their country, but I have a hard time rolling over all the time too.

tonyburton / Moderator

Apr 9, 2006, 10:23 AM

Post #2 of 33 (2651 views)

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Re: [sonful] Rude Mexicans

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Perhaps she heard, "No, pase por favor" (moving the comma makes quite a difference)...
How to handle such situations? Tolerance and patience.

norma2002

Apr 9, 2006, 10:54 AM

Post #3 of 33 (2638 views)

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Re: [sonful] Rude Mexican's

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You could also say "perdoname, soy primero." (pardon me, I'm first)

Papirex

Apr 9, 2006, 11:58 AM

Post #4 of 33 (2616 views)

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Re: [sonful] Rude Mexican's

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Problems like these highlight what is meant by a different culture. Behavior such as you have described are not perceived as necessarily rude, but an opportunity to capitalize on your timidity.

Many people here do not consider it to be rude behavior, but a chance to outsmart you. As some of us have said before, a different culture comprises more than just a different language and money.

It also highlights one of the best reasons to learn at least some Spanish, and to learn to be bolder than we usually are up north. I have even learned to be bolder when pushing a cart through a supermarket. It you cut people off, they will make way for you. If you don’t, you will find yourself waiting for other people to finish their conversations before they will let you pass.

Most Mexican people are very polite on a personal basis. Consideration for other people in public seems often to be absent though.

When my Mexican wife is with me no one gets ahead of us. I am learning to do it on my own.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

johanson

Apr 9, 2006, 1:05 PM

Post #5 of 33 (2598 views)

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Re: [RexC] Rude Mexican's

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Do you remember how you used to look down at those dumb foreigners who came to our country and couldn't speak our language, American English? I first noticed this when I was in my young teens and we really thought those foreigners, often from SoB, were really dumb, because they couldn't speak English. Really that is how many us young teenagers thought. Yes we thought that those foreigners who could not speak English were second class un-educated idiots. We were really bad, but at our rather low intellectual and immature level of development, that is how we thought

Well just maybe the person who just crowded in front of you feels that same way about you, perhaps s/he finds you a second class citizen because she figures you can't speak the language and because you are dressing so strangely by his/her standards.

Why not just tell them to go to the end of the line in their language? You know something like "fin de la cola ." When I do it, the person looks at me in surprise, (Good god he actually speaks Spanish) and goes to the end of the line.(usually with a sheepish grin)

Did you know that there are many well educated Mexicans who choose only to speak Spanish to that un-educated foreigner? I've met people like that. Once I spoke Spanish to them, even if it wasn't perfect, they saw that I was trying, and they started Speaking in good English, but only when my Spanish failed me. I don't believe I would have ever been able to talk to them in English, had they not seen that I was trying to learn and did kind of sort of speak Spanish.

Why did I learn Spanish? Well one of the reasons was, I remembered my youthful very prejudiced images of those foreigners who couldn't speak my language and I didn't want to be looked at as a second class poorly educated person by the people of the country where I now live.

(This post was edited by johanson on Apr 9, 2006, 1:16 PM)

Ed and Fran

Apr 9, 2006, 1:52 PM

Post #6 of 33 (2586 views)

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Re: [sonful] Rude Mexican's

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Then a few days later I was in the process of doing a paralell park (backing into a parking space on the street that I had waited for) As I was backing into the space, a Mexican came down the street, swerved his car nose into the parking spot, preventing me from completing the park, and would not move.

Man, that can happen anywhere. I still clearly remember it happenening to me in Teaneck, New Jersey, quite a few years ago (back when we thought life was gentler and kinder). I jumped out and threatened to smash his driver's side window if he didn't get his $@# out of there. And he eventually backed out and I parked.

Of course, that was Jersey, and that was when I was a lot more high strung than I am now...............

Regards

Ed

kittythegm

Apr 9, 2006, 4:03 PM

Post #7 of 33 (2558 views)

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Re: [Ed and Fran] Rude Mexican's

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I would not do that today NOB - you might be looking down the barrel of a gun!

Life is too short to die over a parking place or have a heart attack over a place in line.

Ed and Fran

Apr 9, 2006, 4:53 PM

Post #8 of 33 (2536 views)

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Re: [kittythegm] Rude Mexican's

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I probably wouldn't do it either today. As I said, I've mellowed a lot since then.

Mark Landes

Apr 9, 2006, 6:12 PM

Post #9 of 33 (2514 views)

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Re: [RexC] Rude Mexican's

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Many cultures do not line up at the bus stop or ticket window. E.g. in China when the bus arrives in not first come first in. I still remember a train station in Zagreb in 1970. About 30 people were pushing and shoving at the ticket window. It was so bad for a while noone was able to buy a ticket. The train was rickety too. If you want cozy, Sun City, queu up America, you know where to find it. We can't call folks in other countries rude for living their culture. Even the French.
Mark

MazDee

Apr 9, 2006, 6:22 PM

Post #10 of 33 (2510 views)

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Re: [johanson] Rude Mexican's

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Thanks for the little Spanish lesson, Johanson! Fin de la cola... and I would have said linea, which I just learned in my dictionary is not the same at all. I haven't had much problem with this "rudeness." I was standing in the gift wrap line at Fabricas de Francia around Christmas (their bags and wrapping are a status thing here among locals) and had just got to the front of the line...er cola...when a woman barged in front of me. The wrapping lady said something to her and took my packages! I guess she said "fin de la cola" or something like that. People tend to walk 3 or 4 abreast down the sidewalk and I used to actually step off the curb to avoid them! Now I just keep walking in a straight line and they miraculously part without losing a beat in their conversation. In the supermarket, a simple "con permiso" seems to work when the aisle is blocked. All in all, it is much pleasanter here than in California! Mazatlecos are generally so friendly and nice. Some things, we just have to learn to understand.

caldwelld

Apr 10, 2006, 7:20 AM

Post #11 of 33 (2428 views)

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Re: [Ed and Fran] Rude Mexican's

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Don't you recall the great Seinfeld episode where George has the NY standoff with another local over a parking spot disputed in the same way as described here. Hilariouus!!
dondon

zoeq1000

Apr 10, 2006, 7:58 AM

Post #12 of 33 (2403 views)

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Re: [caldwelld] Rude Mexican's

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In Italy, I was at the bus station in line for three hours when a man started standing beside me in the line. When I finally arrived at the window, I went in front of him and he stood there and yelled at me during my entire transaction. The clerk knew what was up and we both ignored him, but it wasn't easy.

Then in Beverly Hills, my husband was backing up to parallel park and, what do you know, a big black Mercedes pulled into the space to force us to move. That would have been one smashed Mercedes had he not had the good sense to move. We were driving a truck with a camper on it. It is a matter of brass in most cultures I find.

Here, I just get in front of them and push through. Also, have you noticed that Mexicans don't like to give up space on the sidewalk. Many have been surprised by my shoulder butting into them. It's just a game. I wouldn't be offended. Juststand up for yourself.

arbon

Apr 10, 2006, 8:01 AM

Post #13 of 33 (2402 views)

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Re: [caldwelld] Rude Mexican's

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"Don't you recall the great Seinfeld episode where George has the NY standoff with another local over a parking spot disputed in the same way as described here."

I had thought all the situations that happened on 'Seinfeld', were because none of the four main characters were married with children.

Never would have thought that 'stuff' happened to 'parents'.
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kittythegm

Apr 10, 2006, 9:00 AM

Post #14 of 33 (2383 views)

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Re: [sonful] Rude Mexican's

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Some things to consider:
1) Some of these Mexican's behavior may have been prompted by how they may have been treated by a foreigner in the past. Let's face we have all seen visitors from another country treat natives in their home country with disrespect.
2) You may notice differing behavior patterns that have been created by their environs. For example: population density and the related "fend for oneself" attitudes tend to make people less courteous. New York City versus rural America attributes is one good example.

We live in Albuquerque, NM and have a high density of people with a Mexican heritage. An observation from here - men of Mexican heritage tend to be very courteous and do not seem to follow the macho driving tactics that one experiences in Mexico. Women of Mexican heritage tend to be very courteous in the stores but somewhat aggresive behind the wheel of a car (especially true of the teens and 20's).

From our experience - we have seen far more visitors in Mexico exhibiting rude behavior than we have the Mexicans!

julian3345

Apr 10, 2006, 9:03 AM

Post #15 of 33 (2383 views)

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Re: [Mark Landes] Rude Mexican's

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Let's talk about Paris! Standing in line to get a movie ticket in Paris should be considered as a possible Olympic contact sport...takes practice and guts to succeed! Joan

bournemouth

Apr 10, 2006, 9:36 AM

Post #16 of 33 (2372 views)

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Re: [kittythegm] Rude Mexican's

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I'm not sure that this is learned behaviour from foreigners. It's cultural and extends to other Latin countries. In our two years in Chile we experienced the same behaviour. I learnt to cope with it but had to "unlearn" on our return to the US as I caught myself being unduly aggressive in grocery stores.

If you do not make eye or vocal contact with the people around you, you do not exist and therefore they are not holding you up. "Con permiso" usually forces them to acknowlege you and their better manners kick in. When in line, you just have to make sure that you arrive at the head when it's your turn and not be too meek. "Toque de mi" (that may not be correct) usually worked for me.

In order to exit the Metro in Santiago, you had to put both elbows out or the onrush of new passengers, who were convinced that this was the only train likely to appear that day, could knock you down. However, I'm sure it's probably the same in New York and I know that it surely is the same in London.

We won't discuss driving in Santiago - you had to have nerves of steel and know not just how wide your vehicle was but how many coats of paint on the body. We do not find driving in Guadalajara to be that bad.

I think the aggression of the teen and 20's women behind the wheel extends to all enthnicities. There must be an explanation for it.

Anonimo

Apr 10, 2006, 3:04 PM

Post #17 of 33 (2315 views)

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Re: [sonful] Rude Mexican's

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Hey! Guess what? There are rude people and there are courteous people in every country.
I could give example after example of both sides of the coin, but it would get boring very quickly.
When you are driving in your car, and someone cuts in front of you, or alternatively, allows you passage, they don't know from Spanish or Engllish.
In a cola it's a little different. Be assertive but not rude yourself.

Saludos,
Anonimo

kittythegm

Apr 10, 2006, 3:38 PM

Post #18 of 33 (2297 views)

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Re: [zoeq1000] Rude Mexican's

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Here is another possible solution taken from a real experience.

In the late 40's after the war but before Mao took over, we lived in Shanghai. A friend of my parents became so fed up with the drivers and the traffic that he went out and purchased an old Jeep. Then he had armor plates welded all the way around the vehicle. From that point on he no longer cared what got in his way.

Maybe some of the SUV manufacturers have missed the boat.

song_of_joy

Apr 10, 2006, 4:44 PM

Post #19 of 33 (2271 views)

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Re: [kittythegm] Rude Mexican's

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I've also found personal space to be a factor.

We folks from the US tend to keep others at arm's length. Notice how comfortable you feel as you stand closer and closer to another person. When it feels uncomfortable, you've crossed the boundary of your own personal space.

When I first moved to Guadalajara, people crowded in front of me in line all the time. My distance told them I wasn't in line at all but was just hanging out near the end.

When I learned to stand much, much closer to the person in front of me, a lot of the line-butting stopped.

misslyn

Apr 10, 2006, 9:08 PM

Post #20 of 33 (2213 views)

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Re: [kittythegm] Rude Mexican's

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men of Mexican heritage tend to be very courteous and do not seem to follow the macho driving tactics that one experiences in Mexico. Women of Mexican heritage tend to be very courteous in the stores but somewhat aggresive behind the wheel of a car

Heavens to Betsy, yes! The owner of the language school and my homestay hostess were the most aggressive drivers I've ever seen, made me want to slide right down onto the floorboards. The contests they had at tight intersections - yikes! Evidently the first one with the most guts wins, and that was usually the women.

Georgia

Apr 12, 2006, 8:19 AM

Post #21 of 33 (2101 views)

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Re: [song_of_joy] Personal Space

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I was just about to post when I read your comment. Yes, my first reaction was that the original poster may have not been standing close enough to the person in front of him, making him look, to the Mexican eye, as if he were not quite ready to do his transaction.

It's sort of like city driving: you have to be just close enough to the car in front of you to stop when it does, but not so far as to invite lane changers in.

There is a different concept of personal space here and that MAY have been the problem. Or, they might just have been inordinately rude people.

alex .

Apr 12, 2006, 8:35 AM

Post #22 of 33 (2097 views)

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Re: [RexC] Rude Mexican's

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"Behavior such as you have described are not perceived as necessarily rude, but an opportunity to capitalize on your timidity. "

Kinda like crossing illegally into a country that has lost its balls? La cola esta pa'tras.
Alex

arbon

Apr 12, 2006, 9:05 AM

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Re: [alex .] Rude Mexican's

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Be careful of what you ask for.

In Reply To

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alex .

Apr 12, 2006, 9:15 AM

Post #24 of 33 (2072 views)

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Re: [arbon] Rude Mexican's

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Did not the huddled masses pass thru Ellis Island port of entry? My history is pretty rusty.
Alex

arbon

Apr 12, 2006, 10:05 AM

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Re: [alex .] Rude Mexican's

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Yes Alex, some of them did pass through Ellis Island and went to Chihuahua, Mexico.
Some became corn farmers in the mid West, where they recently got $18,000,000 us over 3 years as a farm subsidy, they sell some of their GM corn in Mexico below actual cost.
The corn farmers in Mexico, not able to grow and sell GM corn below cost, have to leave their land, and go North, to find agricultural work, not necessarily by invitation.

In Reply To

Did not the huddled masses pass thru Ellis Island port of entry? My history is pretty rusty.
Alex

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