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talosian


Mar 21, 2006, 10:22 PM

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Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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On my last trip into Ajijic last week I took notice of some things and remembered some thing I had seen of late.

The proliferation of traffic lights in Ajijic and the resulting long waites and slow traffic in town.

I can't remember if I ever saw a Mexican parton in Salvador's

I count 7 Gringos Gringos to each Mexican at the Wednesday Tiangias as opposed to 1 gringo for about every 9 Mexicans at the Joco Tiangias (and prices for the same item are higher at the Ajijic Tiangias than Chapala or Joco.).

I find prices in restaurants across the board higher in Ajijic than Chapala or Joco.

I find more beggers in Ajijic than I see in Chapala and Joco combined on any given day.

I hear more car horns in Ajijic than Chapala and Joco combined in any given day.

No, I'm not complainint, I'm seriously interested in what other people think about what some call the "advances" of Ajijic and how it impacts the "charm" factor I have read about Ajijic.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

(This post was edited by talosian on Mar 21, 2006, 10:25 PM)



johanson


Mar 22, 2006, 5:32 AM

Post #2 of 19 (3353 views)

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Re: [talosian] Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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I know that you are trying to get a conversation going here and that is cool but I am at Salvador's every day for breakfast. You wrote
"I can't remember if I ever saw a Mexican parton in Salvador's"

Sure there are a lot of NoB type there, but I always see locals eating there, at least at breakfast when I am there.


mkdutch

Mar 22, 2006, 6:10 AM

Post #3 of 19 (3345 views)

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Re: [johanson] Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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Salvador's also has a sizeable patronage by Latinos for their Sunday Brunch/Breakfast; last week far out-numbering the gringo clientele when we were there. As regards the Wednesday Tianguis, perhaps it's the time of day you visited the mercado. I've always seen just the opposite clientele mix - especially during the Rainy Season.

Although most people don't like change, I believe the "traffic jams" and increase in semaphors is a very healthy sign of the increased standard of living many more native Lakesiders enjoy. I used to use a "pick-up quotient" (the number of pick-ups being driven by Mexican locals) as a way to gauge how they were faring overall economically. Since our residency in 1999, the number has increased dramatically. But now it isn't just pick-ups; from new econo Chevy's to BMW's, their numbers have gone up a lot as well. Just as in the EUA and Canada, infrastructure often lags behind the demands for improving it. Delays of a few minutes seem a very small price to pay for knowing our wonderful and gracious hosts are enjoying a better life; they deserve it. Regards, Dutch


mkdutch

Mar 22, 2006, 6:33 AM

Post #4 of 19 (3336 views)

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Re: [talosian] Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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...and here's two-bits more: Willy Sutton, when asked why he robbed banks, said "because that's where the money is". Perhaps the number of "beggars" in Ajijic has something to do with the relative generousity of the Mexican and gringo tourist and local population.

Never fear, the "Charm Factor" of Ajijic and the surrounding communities is still there...but you may have to stray a little bit from the Carreterra and adjust the time of your strolls a little as well...8^). During much of the day, NOB tourists and residents spend a lot of time in the business areas of Ajijic. But as 5PM approaches, many seem to recede back into gated communities and behind property walls. Our host residents, many returning from work or getting ready for an evening of socializing with friends and family, are starting to place chairs, tables and stalls out on the sidewalk and street in front of their home for al fresco comidas and sales opportunities with their neighbors. Try walking around the neighborhoods and streets surrounding the Plaza (as well as the Plaza itself) after 6PM and you will find a lot of the "charm" and fabric of Mexican life spread in front of you. And you will be a whole lot safer than doing the same thing at the same time in the NOB community from which you came. Buena Suerte..............Dutch


1ajijic


Mar 22, 2006, 6:44 AM

Post #5 of 19 (3336 views)

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Re: [mkdutch] Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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First of all everything you say is absolutely true so Ajijic is the last place on earth anyone would want to live.

This is why the recommendation to be here for an extended period is given over and over. Stop by for the day or even the week and get alot of misinformation.

The proliferation of traffic lights in Ajijic and the resulting long waites and slow traffic in town. - This is on holidays, weekends, when the snowbirds are out shopping. Other times you can get through town without hitting a light. Villagers tend to avoid the carretera during those times and go through the village.

I can't remember if I ever saw a Mexican parton in Salvador's - The Mexicans know a good thing, are you crazy. Of course from 10 - 12 it is gringos breakfasting

I count 7 Gringos Gringos to each Mexican at the Wednesday Tiangias as opposed to 1 gringo for about every 9 Mexicans at the Joco Tiangias (and prices for the same item are higher at the Ajijic Tiangias than Chapala or Joco.). I keep hearing this higher price thing. But, it is always generalized. I have purchased the same items at all three markets and paid the same prices. The Ajijic market has many more tourist items not at the other markets that the locals and Mexicans do not need or buy. Most Mexicans and Locals go early - get their fruits, veggies, flowers and chicken / fish and get out before the tourists arrive. Again from 10 - on your tourists get there

I find prices in restaurants across the board higher in Ajijic than Chapala or Joco. Absolutely true - you get what you pay for. If cheap is what you want a can of Pedigree from the Animal Shelter should do the job. If you find prices lower than the hole in the wall, Jessicas or Taqueria check to see if you pets are still around.

I find more beggers in Ajijic than I see in Chapala and Joco combined on any given day. The beggers go where people are more generous. Another reason to damn Ajijic.

I hear more car horns in Ajijic than Chapala and Joco combined in any given day. - What formula did you use for combining Chapala and Jocotopec? Chapala on Mondays is just as loud as there are more cars there on that day. Ajijic when the tourists / snowbirds are out shopping gets louder.
http://www.newbeginningsmexico.com


1ajijic


Mar 22, 2006, 6:50 AM

Post #6 of 19 (3331 views)

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Re: [1ajijic] Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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By the way has the house out in Vista del Lago sold?
http://www.newbeginningsmexico.com


talosian


Mar 22, 2006, 7:40 AM

Post #7 of 19 (3319 views)

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I stand somewhat corrected.

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I haven't eaten at Salvador's in almost a year but when I'm in the airea, I look into it. And of course what I said is my experience only and limited to the times I observed it.

And yes, I enjoy seeing Mexicans get a better place in life in their country, this is why I work at the local High School, which is 5-minutes from my Fracc, doing mainteance work (electrical and cement) and computer repair. and donated a full satellite set-up (dish, receiver, etc.) to the school to not only help but to in a small way express my appreciation for the hospitality I have gotten from most Mexicans I have come in contact with here.

And while I'm at it, I would like to thank Brigitte (who I believe is the Wife of Bubba on this board) for her donation of a Pentium PC, keyboard, printer and monitor to the High School computer class. It was tuned up and is working fine and a real treat for the kids who are use to using older PC (can you believe there are still some 386s around and working?).

I actually wasn't trying to start a discussion as much as simply curious as to what people thought about the changes of Ajijic over say the last 18-months.

When push came to shove, I found I really didn't want to sell my house. And just to be clear, if I had sold it, my intent was not to leave lakeside but to move into the Joco area. I am personally somewhat of a selclusive person, not very social.

The traffic situation reminds me of when I visited the Cayman Islands for the first time in about 1990. At that time I could drive Seven Mile Beach (one traffic light) at a nice pace without congestion. When I was there again about 1993, Seven Mile Beach looked like a Los Angeles freeway at rush hour and parking was a horror as well as the infrastructure being overloaded.

I guess I'm more of a "country" person than a city person.

And again: I was just curious about the thoughts of others.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

(This post was edited by talosian on Mar 22, 2006, 7:53 AM)


Jean

Mar 22, 2006, 10:53 AM

Post #8 of 19 (3278 views)

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Re: [talosian] I stand somewhat corrected.

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As time progresses every town changes. Where I grew up they tore down the drive-ins, theatre (necking in the back row), even my local high school is gone. I would love to stay back in the sixties :) but then there have been so many positive changes. It's a toss up.

Ajijic is definitely more of a mixed town that it ever was. For some Mexicans that has been good for their businesses. For those wanting the quaint Mexican town, I guess you're going to have to move.

I think as more boomers retire a lot are going to be moving to Mexico. In the US right now, housing for boomers in adult retirement areas is booming. Those who can't afford the US any more are going to be moving to areas where they can afford to live.

This has plusses and minuses for the Mexicans. I'm hoping the plusses will outweight the minuses.

Look at China and the boom that is going on there as they become part of the global world. Just heard WalMart is building 100 new stores there in the coming years. Now that might be a bad thing...but it will also mean 150,000 new jobs.

Personally I just want my old movie house and the drive-ins back.

Jean
Retirement Communities
http://www.retirecommunities.com


mkdutch

Mar 22, 2006, 12:01 PM

Post #9 of 19 (3258 views)

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Re: [talosian] I stand somewhat corrected.

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T, I hope my comments were not interpreted as being critical - they certainly weren't intended to be that. Rather, a different viewpoint from a different observer; your truth just wasn't my truth. Reality may be something out in left field or in between our "truths". Judging from your current and past posts, I've received the impression that you don't B.S. (something I'm prone to do from time to time), and have a constructive intent in the subjects you advance or comment on.

I think it's also healthy to talk about trends and why things are changing: that facilitates understanding and acceptance...or may motivate someone to participate more in community activities to influence change one way or another. Or just help out where help is needed. You certainly got responses to your query...8^)...hope you continue, as most of us need those brain cells stimulated. Regards, Dutch.


Bloviator

Mar 22, 2006, 10:08 PM

Post #10 of 19 (3167 views)

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Re: [mkdutch] Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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Agree. It depends on the time of day. My dogs and I walk around the plaza area almost daily and often walk from Villa Nova through six corners to get there and then down to the waterfront. Mid day along Colon we usually see lots of gringos. Later in the day, after five, we see mostly Mexicans. Weekends it is almost all Mexicans everywhere - I often wonder if I should stay away on those days (particularly Sunday) to allow them to have their town back for awhile uncluttered by gringos. Near six corners, it is almost always primarily Mexicans with few gringos.

Of course yesterday, the whole town was overrun by thousands of Mexicans celebrating Independence Day. I sat at the Old Posada, drank a beer, ate some shrimp, and enjoyed watching the informal celebrations going on. Every table in the park on the other side of the pier was filled with Mexican families picnicking. It seemed to be a lot less frantically noisy than other celebration days, but perhaps I was just numb, having driven from Mazatlan earlier in the day.


esperanza

Mar 23, 2006, 7:52 AM

Post #11 of 19 (3127 views)

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Re: [dlyman6500] Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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The holiday (actually on March 21) was the birthday of Benito Juárez.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Bloviator

Mar 23, 2006, 8:08 AM

Post #12 of 19 (3118 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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Sorry about that. As I said, we just got back from three weeks away and a waiter at La Posada told me what day it was.


Papirex


Mar 23, 2006, 9:25 AM

Post #13 of 19 (3094 views)

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Re: [dlyman6500] Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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The birthday of Benito Juarez is celebrated in many different ways; sometimes they are a little surprising, because usually Benito’s birthday coincides with the spring equinox on June 21. This year the equinox was on June 20. Visitors from Mexico City started coming here to Cuernavaca on Friday. There were free concerts at our Zocalo, etc.

The day of the spring equinox is supposed to be the best day to climb to the top of any pyramid to renew your energy. I didn’t know that before moving to Mexico, because pyramids are a little scarce in my nacimiento of Napa, California, or in Alaska for that matter.

On the night of the 20th, The TV news was showing many pictures of people climbing the pyramid at Teotihuacan in Mexico City, it looked like a madhouse. It looked like tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people were climbing to the top of the pyramid there.

Pictures were shown on local TV news of many people climbing the pyramids at Teopanzolco in The City of Cuernavaca, and at Xochicalco 38 km south of us. They were both loaded with people too. Amazing. To climb the highest pyramid at Xochicalco, you have to first climb to the top of the hill there. It’s probably best to bring your own burro. Lots of folks in Mexico believe in pyramid power I guess.

On the night of the 21st, which was Benito’s actual birthday, the city was practically deserted downtown. All the visitors were heading back to Mexico to go to work or school the next day.

Whenever there is a holiday, lots of visitors come to Cuernavaca from Mexico City. The strange thing is that they seem to be invisible when they get here. We notice more cars with DF plates on them, but there never seems to be more people, and prices remain stable. The only effect most holidays have on us here is that the highway to Mexico City is usually loaded; it is not a good time to travel outside the city in that direction.

I learned something this year. Stay away from any pyramid on Benito’s birthday.

Rex


"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


Mark Landes

Mar 23, 2006, 10:29 PM

Post #14 of 19 (3005 views)

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Re: [Jean] I stand somewhat corrected.

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In 1951 my folks moved to the "country" an acre hidden in the orange groves and eucalyptus trees of the outskirts of Anaheim (pop 11,000). Soon Disneyland broke ground, the town's border encompasssed our place and large tractors pulled out orange trees, piled them up and set them ablaze. Houses and stores were built, the population reached 54,000 then 100,000 and never stopped. Our neighbor had 75 acres of strawberries, asparagus and a fruit stand on Harbor boulevard. My folks paid 18K for their acre which inclcuded a corral, gardens, enlclosed barbque house, and eventually six bedrooms (large family). Dad sold early for 99K because kids were coming through--one broke in and started a fire. We sold for 99K. Several years later the neighbor died--his daughter sold out and his place and our acre are now part of Disneyland. Talk about changes. One bright note. The daughter did put the fruit stand and three acres of vegetables in a trust and they will remain forever as they are. Perhaps I'm lurking here because of the braceros who came through every year and picked our oranges. I used to hang out with them as a kid and tried to learn Spanish. The changes down your way have just begun. You all know what is coming as boomers take notice. I think it can benefit the local people but they may need to plan long term and keep control over their enviroment.
Mark


bfwpdx

Mar 24, 2006, 6:35 AM

Post #15 of 19 (2978 views)

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Re: [talosian] Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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This is, of course, a loaded question as well as a leading one! It assumes that everyone finds Ajijic "charming" in the first place....AT great risk to life and limb from those of you who love and live in Ajijic, I must tell you that this person had a different feel for the place when she first visited in 2001. Without wanting to elaborate on my reasons, I have to say we took several walks and drives through Ajijic during our first "scouting out trip" and then headed out elsewhere. Found something much more suited to our personal tastes and needs, somewhere outside the fringe of expatriates, but still on the lake. Ajijic's charm alas, totally eluded us!


Roses5410


Mar 26, 2006, 3:59 PM

Post #16 of 19 (2859 views)

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Re: [Jean] I stand somewhat corrected.

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<I think as more boomers retire a lot are going to be moving to Mexico. In the US right now, housing for boomers in adult retirement areas is booming. Those who can't afford the US any more are going to be moving to areas where they can afford to live.>

Then they may not want to retire here in the Lakeside area as the prices of things seem to be continually rising, especially housing...or is it just me that thinks they are rising?

-K-
I love taking pictures...check out my prints for sale @ http://Rosacalaca.dpcprints.com/

(This post was edited by Roses5410 on Mar 26, 2006, 4:00 PM)


Bubba

Mar 29, 2006, 12:57 PM

Post #17 of 19 (2739 views)

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Re: [talosian] Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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AJIJIC HAS MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US

Little boxes on the hillside, Little boxes made of tickytacky
Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes much the same,
There's a green one and a pink one and a blue one and a yellow one
and they're all made out of tickytacky and they all look just the same.

And the people in the houses all came down from Stepford
Where they put up boxes made of tickytacky that came out all the same,
And there're doctors and there're lawyers and there're border promoters
and they're all made out of tickytacky and they all look just the same.

And they all play on the golf course and drink their martinis dry,
And they all have pretty children and the children never fail
And the children go to summer camp and then go on to school
And they will someday put up boxes that all come out the same.

And the boys go into business and marry and raise a family
And they'll end up here in little boxes and we'll all look just the same.

Thank you Malvina Reynolds from whom this was partially lifted.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 29, 2006, 1:23 PM)


Ron Pickering W3FJW


Mar 29, 2006, 1:12 PM

Post #18 of 19 (2735 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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Bravo Bubba and Malvina. That's what impressed me the most when I visited. All around the hillsides looked like Anyville, USA. That, and the narrow cobblestone streets made me make up my mind to look elsewhere. Perhaps Jacotapec or the East end of the lake.
Getting older and still not down here.

(This post was edited by Ron Pickering W3FJW on Mar 29, 2006, 1:16 PM)


Bloviator

Mar 29, 2006, 6:22 PM

Post #19 of 19 (2677 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Taking a survey: Has Ajijic lost its "charm?"

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Reminds me a lot of Colma and South City going south toward Crystal Springs Lakes.
 
 
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