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sonful

Mar 8, 2006, 7:42 PM

Post #1 of 14 (1419 views)

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35% of Profit to Mexican Gov

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Is there any circumstance where the 35% of profits from the sale of your Mexican home that go to the Mexican Gov. is reduced or eliminated?



Esteban

Mar 9, 2006, 5:44 AM

Post #2 of 14 (1387 views)

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Re: [sonful] 35% of Profit to Mexican Gov

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The laws seem to be interpreted differently in different areas. But, you need to get a REAL answer from a good Notario Publico. Here in Maz, from what I have heard, in todays market, you need to have lived in the home for at least 6 months, have the water in your name, have a fideicomiso(this is the restricted zone) and have an FM-3.


sonful

Mar 9, 2006, 4:18 PM

Post #3 of 14 (1311 views)

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Re: [Esteban] 35% of Profit to Mexican Gov

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THIS WAS TAKEN FROM ANOTHER BOARD ON THIS SUBJECT:

Mexican capital gains tax on real estate woes



There is another thread discussing the costs in Mexican real estate, but it's sort of evolved in to a US tax topic. I have some recent Mexican capital gains tax experience to share and thought I'd start a separate thread.

There are 2 Options when calculating the Mexican capital gains tax you will owe when you sell property in Baja. You can pay:
1. 25% of the sales price of the property OR
2. 35% of the gain (your profit).

You can apply “deductions” to reduce the amount of your tax liability, but only if you choose option #2 (35% of the gain).

Factors effecting the tax you’ll owe when you sell:
1. What you paid when you bought it.
2. What you sell it for.
3. Construction and other property improvements.
4. Fees you paid for real estate, Notario, and some bank services
5. How many years you’ve owned the property. The longer you own, the more you can deduct from the tax.
The Notario will use a formula which takes the Mexican inflation rate for each year you owned the property and deducts it from your profit on the sale.

I’m not an expert, but here’s what we learned during the process of selling some Baja property (which should be final this week). Hopefully others can learn from our mistakes.

1. We trusted that the Notario, in 1992 and 2000, had put the prices we paid for the 2 properties in our fideicomisos. Instead he put the avalou prices (local property tax assessed values). Since we had paid him the 2% Transfer tax based on the actual prices we paid, and had instructed him to be sure to record our actual purchase prices in the fideicomisos, it never occurred to us to check his work. So instead of the $50,000 dollars we paid for the lots, we discovered last year when it came time to sell, it looks like we only paid $8000. This adds $42,000 dollars to the “profit” that we’ll pay tax on that isn’t really there.

2. During the 14 years we owned the properties, Mexico had some very high inflation rates
(one year was up to 30% during the peso devaluation era). Although this would have knocked
A big chunk off our taxable profit, it couldn’t put a dent in our tax amount due to reason #1.

3. You must have official facturas for all construction, supplies and property improvements.
You cannot use receipts for items you smuggle in from the US. You can use receipts when you declare items with Aduana and pay importation tax.

4. To get credit for construction on your property, you must go through a process called
‘Manifesting” your construction. This is done at your local municipio office and starts at the time that you apply for your building permits. When your project is finished, you let them know and your property will be reassessed (for local taxes) which will include the cost of your construction. Your property tax will go up, but you get to claim all the bucks you put in to building and improvements when you go to sell. We had obtained building permits and paid the workers social security during construction projects but did not “Manifest” and never had the property reassessed and could not claim any of the $60,000 dollars we had put in to the properties over the years.

5. Inform real estate agents, Notarios and the bank that you would like facturas (receipts) for the service fees you pay them- they will generally not offer to provide them otherwise.
(I’m guessing because they would have to claim this money as “income” on their taxes). It is very difficult, and in our case impossible, to get them to send you facturas years later.

In our case, it's more beneficial for us to use Option #1 (25% of the sales price) when calculating our Mexican capital gains tax. We will be paying about $30,000 dollars in capital gain tax that we could have put to good use ourselves !

I wish we would have had some guidance about this tax stuff over the years. I hope it can help some of you.

Here's a good article about manifesting your construction
http://www.experienceloscabos.com/construct.html


Esteban

Mar 9, 2006, 6:22 PM

Post #4 of 14 (1289 views)

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Re: [sonful] 35% of Profit to Mexican Gov

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I don't know why you are posting all that crap. Go to your local Notario Publico and get the real facts. You aren't listening to what I'm saying. Policy varies according to location. Check it out. Get more than one opinion. Think about how your selling price is calculated. Does it reflect, actual price or does it reflect appraised evaluation. You need to ask questions. Your idea that everything is black and white, as you wrote, is off base. Not intended to chastize. The information I propose is to get you to think outside the box. Forget the US mindset. Forget the US idea of capital gains and capital improvement. You need to do Mexican due diligence. Everything is negoitable.


(This post was edited by Esteban on Mar 9, 2006, 6:23 PM)


jennifer rose

Mar 9, 2006, 6:37 PM

Post #5 of 14 (1278 views)

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Re: [sonful] 35% of Profit to Mexican Gov

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Posting material published on other sites, without attribution to whomever wrote that post, is more than simply bad form. And even more so when the reposter pushes the purloined material off as gospel.


not_ally

Mar 10, 2006, 6:13 AM

Post #6 of 14 (1234 views)

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Re: [sonful] 35% of Profit to Mexican Gov

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Sonful, I found the information helpful. Also, hopefully most folks who deciding whether or not to sell their homes will do a little more research than looking on a bulletin board. Of course in Mexico you have to, since you *can't* do it without a notario.
----------------------------
"The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly I discover there is no reason." John Cage


Esteban

Mar 10, 2006, 6:27 AM

Post #7 of 14 (1226 views)

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Re: [not_ally] 35% of Profit to Mexican Gov

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How could you find the info helpful if you don't know if it is right or wrong?
Adding that, I believe, the aforementioned information to be incorrect.


(This post was edited by Esteban on Mar 10, 2006, 8:16 AM)


not_ally

Mar 10, 2006, 10:06 AM

Post #8 of 14 (1171 views)

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Re: [Esteban] 35% of Profit to Mexican Gov

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I know that at least a large part of it is right. Plus it raises/reminded me of issues that everyone needs to be thinking about if they're selling a house in Mexico, as I'm in the process of doing. And I can/will clear any or all of it with my notario, as is required of any who is selling a place. Plus, why flame someone who's just trying to be helpful? Give the guy a break.
----------------------------
"The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly I discover there is no reason." John Cage


Esteban

Mar 10, 2006, 10:15 AM

Post #9 of 14 (1167 views)

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Re: [not_ally] 35% of Profit to Mexican Gov

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How about the capital gains exclusion? Not mentioned. Very important. Makes the rest of the info only HALF correct.

So, in my mind, posting half of the truth is not the correct thing to do. Not at all meant to be a flame. Just meant to be a constructive piece of criticism. There are so many "half truths" out there it really bugs me.


(This post was edited by Esteban on Mar 10, 2006, 10:18 AM)


sonful

Mar 10, 2006, 2:16 PM

Post #10 of 14 (1125 views)

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Re: [Esteban] 35% of Profit to Mexican Gov

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First of all, my posted question was to ask you people all ready living in Mexico what you knew about this law. I read the post on another board, and wanted some validation. I did not post it as law. I posted it, asking you if you knew it was correct. and if so, are there any other circumstances that might change this "arbitrated law" Why such hostility?

I think the capitol gains exclusion you speak of is US, not Mexican to my knowledge. And if you know otherwise, I am sure many others would like to know it. As far as going to a notory---of course I will consult a notory, but it helps to have some information (even if it is incorrect information) when going to a notary, so you might ask the right questions.

As for the law being regional. I suppose that is possible, but it would seem to me it would be national. And if it were regional, is this board I am on not about retiring and living in Mexico? Or do you feel it is only for people living in Central Mexico?

As for the legitimacy of the question. I feel since MANY people considering retiring in Mexico are reading these messages and considering coming to Mexico and purchasing a home, that it would be of great importance to be AWARE of this fact before purchasing a home. So what part of my question do you not like. If the information I got from the other board is incorrect or 1/2 correct and you know the "real deal", please share it with us who do not know and would like to learn.


(This post was edited by sonful on Mar 10, 2006, 2:56 PM)


latitude26


Mar 10, 2006, 7:32 PM

Post #11 of 14 (1090 views)

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I am the author of the post

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The post that was quoted regarding taxes owed on the profit from the sale of Mexican real estate was written by myself and posted on the Baja Nomad BB. I wouldn't have thought it useful to you guys on the Mainland because it's often "a world away" across the Mar de Cortez, and so I wouldn't have shared it here.

My husband and I are not real estate or legal experts, and my story simply relates our mistakes and what we have learned from our experience. We have been guided through this process by a very knowledgable Notario, a great Mexican attorney, and a very sharp Mexican Tax specialist/professor.

The property sale in my story was final today and I've just returned from wiring the money for the "Mexican capital gains tax" (yes, this is a misnomer) on this property sale in Baja Sur. Maybe because my story was re-posted that it was considered less-than-credible on this site. My motive was to share our experience, because we would have loved to have the benefit of this knowledge over the years.

All possible exclusions and exemptions to this tax liability were not mentioned because I am not a tax expert and that was not the purpose of my post. I was simply a girl sharing her story.

latitude26 (aka "oladulce" )


(This post was edited by latitude26 on Mar 10, 2006, 7:56 PM)


sonful

Mar 10, 2006, 8:29 PM

Post #12 of 14 (1067 views)

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Re: [latitude26] I am the author of the post

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Latitude26,

Thank you for posting. Are you saying that this law only applies to Baja, and not the main land?


Esteban

Mar 10, 2006, 10:59 PM

Post #13 of 14 (1050 views)

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Re: [sonful] I am the author of the post

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Aside from all the ego BS. I apologize for sounding so condescending. YES there are exclusions and if you don't know about them, you aren't informed. Please get the facts straight and report back. I'd like to know what's happening in YOUR area. All I can say is that there are no capital gains taxes owed, in Sinaloa, if you have lived on the property for six months, have an FM-3 and have a water bill. Anyone disputing that?


latitude26


Mar 11, 2006, 1:00 AM

Post #14 of 14 (1043 views)

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Re: [sonful] I am the author of the post

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No sonful, they are federal tax laws and there was no discrepency in their interpretation between our attorney in Sonora, the Mexican tax specialist in Mexico City, or our Notario in La Paz. My point was not that the Tax laws varied throughout Mexico, but that my post may be more pertinent to those located in our region, with a similar demographic etc. The Baja Nomad site (as well as Baja itself) caters to a different crowd and has a different climate than this site.

The entire Baja Peninsula is considered the Restricted Zone where a foreigner must have a fideicomiso for their residential property. Except for folks along the coasts of the Mainland and those near the borders, the rest of the Mexconnect readers who are Mexican property owners can hold their titles fee simple with an Escritura. I'm not familiar with how the purchase price of a property is reflected on an escritura or how that can impact your taxes when you sell.

Many contributers to this BB seem to be full time residents in Mexico and retirees and both factors can effect the capital gains tax liability or lack thereof. The Baja Peninsula is still vastly undeveloped and due to the lack of goods and services and the proximity to the US, many Foreigner property owners are part time residents or those who travel back to the US frequently, and many are future retirees. (As Baja is being "developed" this is changing, and there is a trend towards more full-timers). My original post was geared towards the climate and the usual suspects on the Baja Nomad site.

There are other factors that can influence Mexican capital gains taxes (if the property is held in a Mexican Corp., if the property was your "primary residence", your immigration status, etc) but i was telling our story, so I only mentioned the things that pertained to our circumstances. We are not retired, obtain FMT's on our Baja visits, do not have Town water or electricity in our remote location (or the bills to use as residency proof) and currently don't qualify to be able to eliminate capital gains tax. But we could have saved lots of money had we known about the deductions that we were eliglble for from the onset of the property purchase.

Yikes- the climate's alot more forgiving over on the Peninsula !


(This post was edited by latitude26 on Mar 11, 2006, 1:45 AM)
 
 
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