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macmember

Feb 4, 2006, 9:14 AM

Post #26 of 43 (1080 views)

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Re: [doogie] Cruelty to Animals

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"Poverty, hunger, untreated disease, etc. Yet life goes on. It is the same for the animals. Why should they get to be put "out of their misery" when people don't?"
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We believe in euthanasia for humans, but it is illegal in most places. If I saw someone in a situation that was absolutely hopeless and in pain, or if I were in that same situation, I would WISH someone would put me out of my misery!!!!!!!!!! That is the HUMANE thing to do for anything or anybody.

My Husband says, "all we need to save for old age is TWO BULLETS". teeheehee

Beverly



Jean

Feb 4, 2006, 10:14 AM

Post #27 of 43 (1065 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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I agree completely and was heartened that the Supreme Court turned down a request by the state of Oregon to overturn the lower courts approval of assisted suicide. It's an issue whos time has come and as baby boomrs get older they will hopefully put pressure on the states to butt out of our lives and let us do what we feel is necessary. No one is their right mind wants to lie in a bed, sick and dying and in pain especially when there is no possible chance of curing them. When my time comes and if I know I will loose the quality of life that I want then I will go wherever I have to to get help.

Jean
Retirement Communities
http://www.retirecommunities.com


Gringal

Feb 4, 2006, 10:20 AM

Post #28 of 43 (1060 views)

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Re: [Jean] Cruelty to Animals

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I agree with you about having the right to put oneself out of misery without the state having a say in it. However, the quality of life issue is different for everyone. For instance, I have a friend who has been caretaking her ailing mother for nearly ten years. The mother is in a wheelchair, taking many drugs and is frequently hospitalized in crisis condition. She still specifies that she wants all resuscitation measures taken to keep herself alive. Go figure.


pat

Feb 4, 2006, 3:58 PM

Post #29 of 43 (1026 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Cruelty to Animals

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Well, as my 97 year old mother said well into the last year of her life, "Living sure beats the alternative." She, however, was spry and healthy up until the last week of her life. I don't know how she would have felt if she had been in ill health, and fortunately for all of us, we will never have to know.


Ron Pickering W3FJW


Feb 4, 2006, 4:44 PM

Post #30 of 43 (1018 views)

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Re: [Jean] Cruelty to Animals

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One needs to save up a bit of a nest egg for a final trip to a European country where assisted death is accepted practice. Why not have a final vacation before one goes. I believe in most countries over there that allow it, it costs less than $1000 (if my memory serves me correctly, which at my age I doubt)
Getting older and still not down here.


Kip


Feb 4, 2006, 6:08 PM

Post #31 of 43 (997 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering W3FJW] Cruelty to Animals

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As long as the decision is the person's who's life is at stake. I think it all depends on if there is still joy in your life.

One ole gal made the comment some time back that she was angry at the hospital because her husband kept having to be rushed to the hospital...only to be fixed up and sent home again. She thought they should have been able to give him some kind of pill......

Let's hope that all of those who are put out of their misery, have the final say. If you know that it will get to the point where you are unable to make those kinds of decisions...have it in writing somewhere..and in the hands of someone who won't profit at your death!
kip


kwschopf


Feb 4, 2006, 10:55 PM

Post #32 of 43 (965 views)

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Re: [Jean] Cruelty to Animals

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"the Supreme Court turned down a request by the state of Oregon to overturn the lower courts approval of assisted suicide."

Just to put the record straight, it was the federal government trying to overturn Oregon's law on physician-assisted suicide, using the argument that it was a violation of the federal Controlled Substances Act. Oregon's attorney general defended the law, which has now been passed twice by Oregon's voters. It is a compassionate law that is not used often, but gives people peace of mind, knowing they have an alternative. You do have to be a legal resident of Oregon to use it, however, so that people don't come here just to die. Karen


Bubba

Feb 5, 2006, 9:44 AM

Post #33 of 43 (921 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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Macmember:

As I read your post about scorpions, I believe you had this problem in Texas, not Mexico. We had a huge number of scorpions in Northern California on our forested acreage in the Mayacamas Mountains but we never saw them until we started renovating an ancient cabin on the property. They were everywhere but never invaded our main house - not even one. Now the huge and repulsive rats in the barn never invaded our main house either but our cat thought we would find rat entrails as enticing as he did so he used to bring us some every day as an offering. We sealed the cat door.

For those of you unfamiliar with this, in Jalisco we have the larger brown scorpion which may hurt you but is not particularly dangerous and the rare small white scorpion which can be lethal. In the five years we have lived in the village of Ajijic, we have seen four scorpions, all near death from exterminator's poison. One stung me and it turned out to be a non event. People we know who live up the hill in scrub areas have often been plagued by them along with some other horrible creatures.

Your story about the scorpions everywhere reminded me of another account of scorpion problems written by a woman who stayed at a hotel with thatched roofed rooms in Guatemala a few years ago. Until that time, she had no idea how much scorpions loved thatched roofs as places to dwell nor how ants periodically invade those roofs to eat scorpions. It seems that that night, there was an ant invasion of the thatched roof above her bed and scorpions, in order to escape the ants, were raining down on her bed as they leapt for their lives. She was able to protect herself from a direct hit with an umbrella. She does not stay in hotels with thatched roof rooms any more.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Feb 5, 2006, 9:47 AM)


macmember

Feb 5, 2006, 1:02 PM

Post #34 of 43 (903 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Cruelty to Animals

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Bubba

Yes, the scorpion story did take place in Texas. My current problem is the PHOBIA that I would bring with me to Mexico.

What is the name of the Chemical you are using that appears to be controlling your scorpions? Do you know the chemical makeup as well? The name could be different NOB. As I said, Cloradane is banned here.

Whoa, I never thought about the thatch roof buildings being a problem. We stayed in a 5 Star Resort in Hawaii where our roof was thatch but didn't have any problem. Maybe the scorpions couldn't swim that far! Termites are a big problem there but I suppose they would be easier to control

What are the other "horrible creatures" that you mentioned in your post, that some folks in the "scrub areas" have? With the prices in the village/town going so high, I understand they are building farthur out. The lower price may be a trade off that would not be worth it to some of us.

Beverly


johnv

Feb 5, 2006, 8:43 PM

Post #35 of 43 (869 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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Some of the other horrible creatures, besides numerous species of scorpions are: coral snakes, rattle snakes, black widow spiders, brown relcuse spiders, killer bees, a very nasty large red wasps, atleast two kinds of poisonous lizards, sea snakes, sea urchins, poisonous jellyfish, and sharks. This is not to mention rabid animals, including rabid feral dogs.


macmember

Feb 5, 2006, 9:44 PM

Post #36 of 43 (859 views)

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Re: [johnv] Cruelty to Animals

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John V

GEEEEZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should write the articles for magazines like AARP. That would slow down the migration of Senior Citizens. They wouldn't even be asking where the closest Golf course was any longer. All kidding aside, things such as this should be included in these articles.

I know when we moved out to the Country (in Texas), I would have NEVER believed the nightmares we got into. Like the night my Husband accidently shot off the top of the front step trying to shoot a wild animal that was driving us crazy. WILD WEST!

Along with the scorpions, we had Copper Head snakes and other varieties, tarantulas, all types of spiders, (a screaming) mountain lion, skunks, raccoons, possums, hunters trespassing/shooting and much more I have opted to forget.

I'd better stick to the inner city and pay the big bucks.

Beverly


Bubba

Feb 6, 2006, 7:43 AM

Post #37 of 43 (831 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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I must say that our horrible creatures down here don't hold a candle to horrible creatures in my native Alabama or the rural area of Northern California where we lived for years. John V's posting is not incorrect but is overly alarming. I mentioned that we have seen about five scorpions near death in our house in five years but, even though we take long walks in brushy country, we have never seen any of the other creatures John talks about in those five years here except for the large reddish brown wasp which is a seasonal nuisance.

In Northern California, we would go walking in the woods and arrive home covered with giant ticks. We were constantly harassed by the nastiest horseflies you have ever seen when we went swimming in our pool. In the sping and summer we were plagued with yellow jackets who were so aggressive that we could never eat outside. They would not hesitate to attack you. The city of Santa Rosa had to close its parks at one point. We ran across rattle snakes, giant rats, black widows and scorpions and also had a few mountain lion scares. Blue Jays harassed our dogs and cats to steal their food while screeching constantly and there was a blue heron who loved to eat our koi.

This place is a piece of cake compared to where we lived in the states.


Gringal

Feb 6, 2006, 7:50 AM

Post #38 of 43 (826 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Cruelty to Animals

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You missed the best of the Northern California horrors: the giant mosquitoes that dive-bomb you all night.


mexicomike


Feb 17, 2006, 9:35 PM

Post #39 of 43 (754 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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Part of this thread has gotten into the topic of living in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas, so felt it was my duty to dispel some misconceptions about that . BTW, I am an animal lover and it is those very animals that prevent me from living in Mexico full-time again. Besides a cocker spaniel who loves Mexico and gets along with Mexican dogs, we have two cockatoos and a parrotlet, which are inmigrados non grata for Mexico. You could bring them in without knowing the President, but it would surely make the process bearable. The quarantine alone is awful. And once they are in Mexico, they can never come out.

About the Valley, there are plusses and minuses to living here. The proximity to Mexico is a big one. Access to affordable medical care is another. I see a doctor in Reynosa for $20 and a dentist for $25. Dental work is about $200-$300 for a porcelain crown etc.). I can drive to San Miguel in a day if I really hump it or in two days with stops at hot springs on the way. Monterrey is about 4 hours and Saltillo 5. Veracruz is a hard day or two with pleasant stops.

Please don't be put off by the comments by the person who lived here 20 years ago. I respect his opinions, but respectfully disagree with them, as he might with mine. They were that person's opinion, and perfectly valid as opinions, but I feel that they were excessively negative. I lived here 20 years ago too as well as a lot longer and today, so my opinions are a little more varied. I moved here in 1956 and have lived in Mexico and South America and half a dozen states in the USA. Brownsville is (to me) the least attractive or desirable town to live in (my personal opinion to be taken with a grain of salt), even today. McAllen and Edinburg are the nicest areas, except for South Padre Island. While some may say that the weather "stinks," that is a personal prejudice. Winters (to me) are absolutely wonderful, mostly with days in the 70's and 80's and nights generally in the 60's. We do get a few nights of 40's or 40's and it does snow every 30 years or so. Mostly, winters here are, overall, warmer than in San Miguel.

Summer does require air-conditioning, but so do most parts of the USA and many in Mexico. While temps of 100 to 105 are not uncommon, it is more comfortable than many parts of the USA due to middle humidity, in my opinion. Humidity is relative and like relatives, everyone has a different view. I was born in New Mexico and have lived in New Orleans and Galveston, so I appreciate all the extremes of it. 60-80% is fairly common (though lately it has been in the 40%-50%), but yes it gets in the 90% range now and again. If days are unbearable to some, they can be rewarded by a cooling breeze from the Gulf that cools things off at sundown. The best weather here is from October-April. I will take that over a few months of heat.

While it may be the "poorest" metro area in the States, that is like saying that Mexico is "poor." The "metro" area includes the prosperous towns of McAllen and Edinburg and many more that are much poorer. Lots of people make very little money, but we do not have dirt streets (OK, some colonias do, but you probably aren't going to live in one). Most of us have indoor plumping. We have all the "things" and stores etc. that everywhere else in the USA has, be that good or bad. By golly, we even have two Starbuck's and two big-name book stores, though neither carry my books, but at least the libraries have them.

I do agree that the culture is different from Mexico's or other parts of the USA. Since our population is predominantly Mexican-American, it is a curious blend of cultures that not everyone understands or likes. The warmth of the people that we gringos so like in Mexico is here too. The pace of life is slow and it is very family-oriented. People will stop and help you if you break down on the highway. It's not Mexico, but it is close.

Many Mexican-Americans do not like Mexico. There are cultural reasons for that. They have traditionally in the past been mistreated by Mexican officials when they did travel to Mexico. While that is not as true today as it was even ten years ago, the stereotype lives on. The Paisano program has done a lot to change things.

Anglo people here are not all afraid of Mexico, but many are (just as elsewhere in the USA), since their idea of Mexico is the border cities. A common misconception by short-timers here is to think that Winter Texans are Valley people. They are not. Winter Texans, as a group, are fearful of Mexico, and if they weren't, they would be Winter Mexicans. But, I have found a large group of Mexican-American and Anglo friends who like and know Mexico here, more so than in many other parts of the USA. I give seminars about traveling in Mexico here and they are always well-attended.

The cost of living here is less than in most touristic areas of Mexico. We bought a 4 bedroom 2 bath home with a yard and trees (including a citrus tree) in a nice section of McAllen for $110,000. Can you do that in San Miguel or Lake Chapala or Vallarta or ...? You can buy a house for that, but it would be smaller. Now, if you tried to do that on South Padre Island, you would be whistling Dixie. Rents run from $300 and up for a 1 bedroom house or $250 and up for a 1 bedroom trailer on a long-term basis. In the winter those same places start at $500 for the short-term.

The short answer to your comment is that some people prefer to live in Mexico and some will find this a good alternative. In my case, it was the best compromise that I could make, so I moved here from Austin. I can afford it and I can be in Mexico in fifteen minutes.


"Mexico" Mike Nelson
www.mexicomike.com
Writing about Mexico for 40 years.
Maps, Road Logs for drivers
Author of "Live Better South of the Border."
"Spas & Hot Springs of Mexico."
Mexico is a state of mind.


macmember

Feb 17, 2006, 9:50 PM

Post #40 of 43 (752 views)

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Re: [mexicomike] Cruelty to Animals

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Thanks Mike
That is very informative. If you don't mind, I have a couple of questions.

1) If we lived there and got sick, can you count on it only taking 15 minutes to get across the border to a Doctor. We would not be able to pay for a Hospital bill NOB.

2) Are there many opportunities for a Senior Citizen to get a full time job there in order to have Insurance? It really would not matter to him what he did. He is a tremendous manager. He changed professions completely after we sold our business and went straight to the top where he is now. He is Billingual but his Spanish is considered Tex Mex. He said he would get better pretty quick if he were around it again.

3) Do you happen to know much about the 55+ Mobile Home communities. Do any of them have a garage along side of them?

Thanks so much
Beverly


mexicomike


Feb 18, 2006, 12:42 PM

Post #41 of 43 (698 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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Beverly,

15 minutes depends on where you live, but no matter where it is, you won't be far. What is NOB?

As far as working here, it's like anywhere else. There are a lot of businesses that cater to the 55+ community so there is no age discrimination there, but it is just as bad here as elswhere.

In terms of modibl home parks there are hundreds of them in all configurations.

"Mexico" Mike Nelson
www.mexicomike.com
Writing about Mexico for 40 years.
Maps, Road Logs for drivers
Author of "Live Better South of the Border."
"Spas & Hot Springs of Mexico."
Mexico is a state of mind.


Bubba

Feb 18, 2006, 2:07 PM

Post #42 of 43 (678 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering W3FJW] Cruelty to Animals

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Which European Countries are you referring to?


MARIA CUERVA

Feb 18, 2006, 3:00 PM

Post #43 of 43 (659 views)

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Re: [alex .] Cruelty to Animals

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Sometime in the 60's I spent 6 mos living on an isolated beach in Jalisco.
That was the winter of almost drowning, wandering barebreasted on the beach for miles without running into a single soul, seeing the hordes of Vultures feeding on the carcasses of the night's tortuga kill, and seeing a little white Chihuahua with dead puppies legs sticking out of her belly.
I was shocked. I had never seen anything like that before. She was a fighter, a survivor. I didn't know how long such a condition could exist. And I knew Euthanasia would be called for in most countries.

I count that winter as the time in my life when I self-ignited and became something more than the sum of family , society and church.

SHE WAS ALIVE! And so was I.
When I left that beach she was still running around doing her thing-6mos later. No evidence of suffering or change. A BE HERE NOW moment if there ever was one.

My mother grew up in the country on a farm. She never lost her feeling that amimals were for use rather than companions. I wept as a child for what I felt was her heartlessness. I buried every animal that died with full ceremony and she refused to buy dog food or take them to the vet.

I don't have a resolution for the natural differences in our approaches. But they exist in all peoples. I am always uncomfortable with THE WAY which is always the only way. I do not really know the difference between fate and choice. I sometimes think I do and preach on consequences and results. Indeed it is the way I try to live my life. But then there is the Way that things are usually done. It is very humbling.
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