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Phil in SLP

Feb 2, 2006, 6:25 AM

Post #1 of 25 (1984 views)

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Mexican citizenship and the car question

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I am eligible to apply for Mexican citizenship in two weeks. My only hesitation is that I might have to sell my 2003 vehicle with Texas plates, which I love, and buy a Mexican plated vehicle. Is there any way around this? Logic says that if I have to give up my FM3, my temporary importation sticker is no longer valid. Ayudame por favor.



esperanza

Feb 2, 2006, 7:52 AM

Post #2 of 25 (1957 views)

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Re: [Phil in SLP] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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If you have a spouse who is not becoming a Mexican citizen, your spouse could import the Texas-plated car in his/her name.

There's no work-around on this, as far as I know.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









sfmacaws


Feb 2, 2006, 8:00 AM

Post #3 of 25 (1954 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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Are you sure Esperanza? I thought I had heard that you can convert 1 car that you have owned for a set amount of time when you convert your status.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Phil in SLP

Feb 2, 2006, 8:22 AM

Post #4 of 25 (1945 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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No, my wife has US/Mexican citizenship. From what I understand she would be considered Mexican ONLY by authorities here.


Don


Feb 2, 2006, 12:34 PM

Post #5 of 25 (1901 views)

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Re: [Phil in SLP] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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My wife has Mexican/U.S. citizenship. To bring her car back to Mexico, she got an FM3. We had our vehicles legalized several years ago under an amnesty program. Once the vehicles were legalized, she dropped her FM3.


Rolly


Feb 2, 2006, 12:35 PM

Post #6 of 25 (1900 views)

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Re: [Phil in SLP] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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This car question came up recently when Miguel Palomares reported on gaining Mexican citizenship. Marlene posted this:

If granted it would be a special approval to have it nationalized and remain with you rather than having to remove it from Mexico. The local Aduana agents gave us the information and he said this would apply to a vehicle you have had in your possession in Mexico for awhile, providing it is of the variety they would normally approve (they can't approve certain makes of cars). He also made it sound as if it would be on a case-by-case approval, so it's worth a try when the time comes. Give your Aduana office a call or pay them a visit. The fellows here love to go through their books and dig out information for foreigners.

I am also very interested in this subject because I want to apply for citizenship next week.

Rolly Pirate


Bubba

Feb 2, 2006, 12:49 PM

Post #7 of 25 (1896 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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We may also go the citizenship route and still have a 1995 Ford Ranger pickup with California plates. That type of vehicle was/is covered under the amnesty and ought to be a vehicle you could import once you become a Mexican citizen. Until then, I plan to drive it with those expired California plates. I think the amnesty is still on and am now wondering if I should legalize the truck while I still can. I don't think so but would appreciate hearing from any of you who have been through this.


CCarol

Feb 2, 2006, 2:24 PM

Post #8 of 25 (1875 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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What happens to US Social Security when one becomes acquires citizenship in Mexico? Is it dual citizenship you all are talking about? As you can see...I know nothing along these lines.
Carol



"Be kind, for everyone you know is facing a great battle." (Philo of Alexandria)


jennifer rose

Feb 2, 2006, 2:42 PM

Post #9 of 25 (1869 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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You do not have to be a Mexican citizen to avail yourself of the current legalization program. Your vehicle is eligible now.


Papirex


Feb 2, 2006, 3:17 PM

Post #10 of 25 (1863 views)

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Re: [CCarol] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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US Social Security payments will not be affected when an American acquires Mexican citizenship. My Suegra collects US Social security payments on her late American husbands account. She is a Mexican citizen and has never held American citizenship.

Several other Mexican ladies that live in the same building that she does are also receiving US Social Security payments on their late husbands accounts. I don’t think that any, or many of the husbands or wives were US citizens either, but the men did spend many years working in The US legally.

When a person born an American citizen acquires Mexican citizenship they become a dual citizen. The only way that a person born as an American citizen may have their US citizenship terminated is if that person goes to an American Embassy or Consulate in a foreign country and voluntarily renounces their US citizenship.

No government agency has the power to cancel your US citizenship if you were born as an American citizen. Naturalized US citizens can and have had their US citizenship revoked when it has been proven in the courts that they committed fraud to gain US citizenship though.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


Bubba

Feb 2, 2006, 7:58 PM

Post #11 of 25 (1824 views)

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Re: [CCarol] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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CCarol:

Your citizenship has nothing to do with your rights to social security benefits if you paid into the system. My wife is a French citizen who made social security contributions for years, is now resident in Mexico as an FM-2 and lost her U.S. residency status when she moved here. We have no address in the U.S. whatsoever. When I go to the Guadalajara U.S. consulate, it seems to me that most people in there to claim SS Benefits ane Mexicans who have worked - legally or illegally in the U.S. and are entitled to benefits. The Social Security officer who took my application confirmed the above.

Thanks for your comment, Jennifer. I realize I could legalize my 1995 pickup now but would rather wait until I apply for Mexican citizenship if I do so.


CCarol

Feb 2, 2006, 9:16 PM

Post #12 of 25 (1808 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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Thanks for clearing that up for me. It's very important to everyone to continue receiving their Social Security. It's as I suspected, but needed to hear it from you who know.
Carol



"Be kind, for everyone you know is facing a great battle." (Philo of Alexandria)


garrycouch

Mar 20, 2006, 9:29 AM

Post #13 of 25 (1725 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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There is alot of interesting stuff on the forum regarding U.S.-plated cars and dual citizenship. For clarification, if one currently has an FM3 with a U.S. car in Mexico,
then acquires Mexican citizenship (after the necessary 5 years) in addition to U.S. citizenship, is the car registered in U.S. still ok to go back and forth to U.S. without problems on the Mexican side when returning to Mexico? Is the existing holographic sticker on the windshield still valid?


Papirex


Mar 20, 2006, 5:16 PM

Post #14 of 25 (1696 views)

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Re: [garrycouch] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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No. One of the downsides to acquiring Mexican citizenship is that you will no longer be able to keep a US registered car here. Mexican citizens are not allowed to temporarily import a car.

You must have a FMT, FM2, or FM3 visa to temporarily import a car. Remember, your car’s temporary import permit is valid as long as your visa is valid. It is tied to your visa.

Mexican citizens are not eligible to get one of those types of visas. As a Mexican citizen, it would be illegal for you to get one, or apply for another after you had turned in your old FM-visa after you take Mexican citizenship.

If you were able to conceal your Mexican citizenship and get another FM-visa, you would be right back to the hassle of annual renewals, etc., so what would be the advantage of obtaining Mexican citizenship?

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

(This post was edited by RexC on Mar 20, 2006, 5:20 PM)


garrycouch

Mar 21, 2006, 6:50 AM

Post #15 of 25 (1648 views)

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Re: [RexC] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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Good points! Thanks for the info... better off with keeping single
U.S. citizenship in my case.


esperanza

Mar 21, 2006, 8:28 PM

Post #16 of 25 (1582 views)

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Re: [RexC] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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Rex, I'm sitting here reading the Guía Paisano 2005-2006, published jointly by SEGOB (Secretaría de Gobernación), the INM, and the Coordinación Nacional Paisano. The Guía Paisano is published as an aid to Mexican citizens who wish to return from the USA to visit their country of origin.

The Guía Paisano (pp. 15-19) clearly states the rules regulating the temporary importation of a vehicle into Mexico BY A MEXICAN CITIZEN. The requirements are identical to those for a foreigner, with the single exception that a Mexican citizen must have permanent resident alien status in the USA and must present his or her green card as proof of that status when importing a vehicle with US plates into Mexico.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Papirex


Mar 21, 2006, 10:42 PM

Post #17 of 25 (1567 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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That is correct, I have stated the same thing in previous posts. The subject this time was for someone living in Mexico aquiring Mexican citizenship and becoming a dual citizen though. For a Mexican citizen to temporarily import a car, they must prove that they do not reside in Mexico, that's where the green card comes in.

It would seem to be impossible for a dual American/Mexican citizen to legally obtain a Permanent residence card (green card) in The US. Green cards are only issued to foriegners, not to US citizens, and without a spouse that is a US citizen, the waitng period is several years to even apply for one, unless someone wins a green card lottery.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

(This post was edited by RexC on Mar 21, 2006, 11:12 PM)


julian3345

Mar 22, 2006, 6:14 AM

Post #18 of 25 (1545 views)

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Re: [RexC] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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Mexicans in general are not eligible to apply for green card lottery. Their only possible loophole is if one of their parents is not Mexican, has not lived in Mexico and is a native of an eligible country. Of course, each applicant must meet education requirements, etc. as well See the website at:
www.official-green-card.org/requirements.asp


(This post was edited by julian3345 on Mar 22, 2006, 6:24 AM)


Papirex


Mar 22, 2006, 6:53 AM

Post #19 of 25 (1529 views)

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Re: [julian3345] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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Thanks for the link Joan. I didn’t know that Mexicans were not eligible to enter the green card lottery. I see on the list of ineligible countries that Mexico has been included with other undesirable countries such as Canada and The United Kingdom.

Who says that bureaucrats can’t think?

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


Bubba

Mar 22, 2006, 6:54 AM

Post #20 of 25 (1525 views)

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Re: [RexC] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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Ah, yes.

The famous green card. (Which, according to some imbecile who works for the INS - who expressed this thought with some indignation - is actually blue).

I swear to God this is true. My wife decided against attempting to gain U.S. citizenship after experiencing the nightmare that is the INS regional office in San Francisco. She was flying back to San Francisco from Paris helping a U.S. citizen fill out his entry card because he was Chinese and spoke no English.

My wife who worked in the United States for over 30 years, lost her green card when she had the temerity to move to Mexico. She found this out when she flew to Paris through DFW and thought she was going to end up in Gitmo instead with some GI pervert peeing on her when she innocently presented her green card. Well, of course, how can she be granted permanent residency status in the United States when she lives in Mexico.

For a while there, we toyed with the idea of moving back to the states and seeking citizenship for her for reasons having to do with the fact that, since she is not only a foreigner but is French to boot and may be subject to certain income tax burdens as a result, such a move might prove efficacious, Since it mattered not where we moved in the U.S. (with the exception of California which would desire to levy income taxes against us), I decided we should move to Natchez and buy myself a white suit, some white bucks and a straw hat and stroll up and down whatever street faces the Mississippi River going, "Mahnin', how y'all doin' today?" to everyone whose path we crossed.

Then came 9/11 and what we had previously known as the United States disappeared on us.

We'll pay the frigging taxes.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 22, 2006, 7:30 AM)


Papirex


Mar 22, 2006, 7:08 AM

Post #21 of 25 (1521 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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Yes Bubba they are actually blue and white now. They were originally green though back in the days of the Bracero program which was terminated sometime around 1962 I believe.

I have seen one of the original green cards. They were about the color of the original American Express card, and they had a picture of the cardholder on the face of them. My suegra used to hold one of them. It expired long ago.

It always did seem strange to me that after over 40 years since they were green, they are still called a green card. Old habits die hard.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


bournemouth

Mar 22, 2006, 7:13 AM

Post #22 of 25 (1518 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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Bubba - you keep bringing this sad story up. As a former green card holding resident alien myself, I can state with conviction that it is up to all resident aliens to know the law relating to their green cards. It has always been, since we arrived in the US in 1970, the law that you could not leave the US on a permanent basis, as you and your wife did, and keep your green card. It used to be that you had to return every 12 months - now it may well be a shorter period. The FM3 visa in your wife's passport alone would tell the immigration officer that she had changed her country of residence. It is of no importance to the immigration authorities how long we may have lived in the US or how much in taxes we may have paid. The law, to them, is the law.

If you chose to change your residence and ignore the law, then what befell your wife, unreasonable as it may seem to you, was legal. You know from your time in Mexico, that many things are up to the individual officer with whom you come into contact. It may have been that a kinder agent would have allowed your wife to keep her card, but rather unlikely.

All you do with the recycling of this tale is show us you did not plan well for your future.


Bubba

Mar 22, 2006, 7:47 AM

Post #23 of 25 (1506 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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Now, wait, Bournemouth:

I have no argument with what you say except for that last sentence.

I must admit that it never occurred to us that my wife would lose her "permanent" residency status if she moved to Mexico. Call it ignorance - it simply never crossed our minds. We really don't care except for the fact that the United States treats foreigners like criminals when it comes to income or inheritance taxes.

We had several places in mind for retirement and I will not rehash those alternatives. They were typically along the southern frontier of the United States from Arizona to Florida but one day the lightbulb went on and we discovered the Mexican alternative.

We are fortunate in that we have two things:

Enough money to remain comfortable as long as need be.
The good fortune to live in paradise.

Lots of money is no longer a goal as long as I can afford my Cheese Whopper
I know how much you despise me. That gives me comfort. You and Sr. Arce make quite a pair.


jerezano

Mar 22, 2006, 9:51 AM

Post #24 of 25 (1476 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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Hello Bubba and any other posters who have encountered the following situation:

Non USA citizens who move out of the USA are forced to withhold 28% tax on their Social Security Benefits. This substantially reduces their monthly SSA benefit. Citizens are not subject to this.

In the past it was possible for such non-citizens to file an income tax return and reclaim that forced withholding if he/she did not owe any tax. I used to help Mexican friends prepare their tax return to reclaim that money. IRS changed the regulations about 8-10 years ago and it became impossible to reclaim the withhheld tax.

Question 1: If you/your spouse as a citizen married to a foreigner file a joint income tax return but don't owe any tax can you reclaim that withholding tax you/your spouse was forced to pay?

Question 2: If you/your spouse as a non-citizen should owe tax to the IRS, when the two of you file jointly I assume that the forced 28% withholding is summed into your total withholdings and you can claim whatever you have overpaid or it will reduce the tax owed. Is this correct?

Adios. jerezano.


bournemouth

Mar 22, 2006, 11:09 AM

Post #25 of 25 (1464 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Mexican citizenship and the car question

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Despise you? I wouldn't go as far as to say that. Think you're a bit of a twit - absolutely!
 
 
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