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macmember

Feb 1, 2006, 11:00 PM

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Cruelty to Animals

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 I suppose that one of my biggest problems with moving to Mexico, would be the cruelty to animals. I know that everyone will NOT agree with these opinions.

When we lived in the country and we saw an animal suffering, my husband just took it for a walk and shot it in the back of the head, putting the poor thing out of it's misery. Living in the City is no problem, you just call animal control, they come and pick it up and euthanize them. To us, this is the kindest thing to do to an unwanted and mis-treated animal since we can not possibly take on every animal. If I were suffering I would want someone to do it to ME!! It's the suffering that's bad, not the dying part.

Since you are not allowed to have guns in Mexico and they don't have animal control, is there a KIND way to put the animals out of their misery without getting in trouble?



alex .

Feb 2, 2006, 6:14 AM

Post #2 of 43 (7329 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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There was a story told here some time back about a 3-legged pig; something along the line of it being too good an animal to eat the whole thing.
Are you running out of activities in Mexico?
Alex


dolores57

Feb 2, 2006, 7:52 AM

Post #3 of 43 (7298 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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I have also thought about this and worried about it. Since I have collected helpless strays my whole life and have over identified and been overly sensitive to the plight of animals. I figure it is something I am just going to have to face. One whold think that in a country that is as poor as Mexico the animals are certianly going to come on on the short end of the stick. I am reminded of something Gandhi said that you can tell how civilized a country is by how the animals are treated. d


dtracy8671

Feb 2, 2006, 9:53 AM

Post #4 of 43 (7266 views)

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Re: [dolores57] Cruelty to Animals

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I may be way off the mark here, but we have been to Ajijic several times, and to me, every animal I have seen looks to be well fed. Even the street dogs, which I enjoy saying, "Hola" to on my walks. Please don't get me wrong, I know there is cruelty to animals in Mexico, but has anyone out there watched Animal Cops on the Animal Planet channel? It seems the US has cruelty to animals beat by a landslide compared to what I have seen in Ajijic and around Lakeside. I am an avid animal lover and it amazes me how the dogs get along in the towns. The solution to animal cruelty is education, which in Mexico, will take time. Until then, we can try "gently" to educate when see something amiss with an animal.


sandykayak


Feb 2, 2006, 10:19 AM

Post #5 of 43 (7257 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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I'm not up to putting animals out of their misery, but I did buy a bag of croquetas (dried dog food) to keep in the car and dole out to any hungry strays.

May not have helped much, but at least I felt I was doing SOMETHING!!
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque


DoDi2


Feb 2, 2006, 10:37 AM

Post #6 of 43 (7252 views)

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Re: [dtracy8671] Cruelty to Animals

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I was staying at the home of a very elderly friend who had four dogs. Two of her dogs were nondescript curlytailed street dogs who were 'the twins'.

Another was a huge, maginificent creature. His sleek coat was so black it was blue and the sheen reflected from it the solid core of rippling muscle underneath. He would silently appear, directing a hypnotic and rather heartstopping gaze at you from his intense mahogany eyes. The dog was feared and respected by all, and I for one was damn glad he was on our side.

The fourth dog was the most loved by the family. He had been found at the bottom of a well by my friend's grandson where they told me he must have been trapped for days. For this reason alone he was loved and considered muy valiente y bravo. He always accompanied us when we left the house, being not only bravo, but also loyal and protective of 'his pack'. He was the only dog allowed in the house, the rest being run out by my friend when they dared cross the door to enter... chased off with a shout of 'nees!becu!' which means 'water! dog!'. (Even the hypnotizing black mammoth would lumber off on hearing those words, not wishing to be hit by the unpleasant drenching from a big bowl of water which would come next).

The problems started when the fourth dog (I'll call him Kaliman since I can't remember what his name was... Kaliman being the most common name could well be what it was) started 'losing it'. He had taken a dislike to the neighbor who had a lot on the corner where he kept his cart and burro tied to the tree. Every once in a while Kaliman would go walk over there bite him (the neighbor, not his burro) and my friend could not get him to stop. After about the fourth or fifth time, Kaliman bit the neighbor's leg in a particularly vicious way and drew blood.

That was the last straw and the neighbor grabbed Kaliman, put a noose around his neck, and executed him by hanging him from the tree.

I was at the house when it happened, and although everyone was very upset and crying over the death of Kaliman, no one was mad at the neighbor. They accepted that he was justified and really there wasn't any other choice.


Rolly


Feb 2, 2006, 12:12 PM

Post #7 of 43 (7226 views)

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Re: [DoDi2] Cruelty to Animals

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Your story make me wonder what sort of guy the neighbor was, not because he killed the dog but because the dog didn't like him. I have long believed that my dogs are a better judge of character than I am. I have learned that whenever my dog reacts negatively to a visitor I need to be very wary of that person.

Rolly Pirate


DoDi2


Feb 2, 2006, 1:19 PM

Post #8 of 43 (7212 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Cruelty to Animals

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I agree... or else it's that the person reminds them of someone.

My own dog loves people, but two times I've seen her react vicously to people for apparently no reason. Both were big men who physically resembled each other, and since my dog is a street rescue I'm not sure about her history... maybe she was mistreated by someone with the same characteristics.

Also it may be that my friends dog was upset about the neighbor keeping his burro tied to the tree. It was his land, but it was also an empty lot on the corner and maybe the dog thought he was invading it's territory. The dogs at that house were very territorial and would rush out barking at anyone who walked by the house too close after the sun went down.

Personally I thought they needed a gate to wall the dogs inside at night since the dogs were pretty menacing. But the house and fence was all cariso and so the dogs got out easily. If I lived on thier street I would have been a bit annoyed myself.


johnv

Feb 2, 2006, 8:05 PM

Post #9 of 43 (7170 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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I really don't know about cruelty to animals in this country, but I will have to say that dogs, their owners, and laws concerning the situation, are out of control here. I have to move, and am looking to as soon as possible, because of neighbors dogs, their inability to control them, clean up after them, and those owners blatant disrespect for others. As for strays, a massive shooting and poisoning program is in order. The situation is out of control throughout the republic. These animals are like huge rat-like vermin roaming everwhere. The dogs owned by Mexicans are for the most part ignored and given improper attention and love and therfore become neurotic from being confined in addition to the above, and bark insessantly and neurotically for no reason, and the owners for a good part, are laxadaisacal in cleaning up the feces on their rooftops and in their cubicle like yards. As far as I know there are no laws concerning the control of these animals disturbing the peace, and their owners slovenly clean up habits. I live in an upper class Mexican neighborhood, one of the best in my city, and I really think there are as many dogs in my neighbood as people. I would hate to think what the situation is like in a lower class neighborhood. I am looking for property in the country with high acreage and no present neighbors, as I've had it with Mexican dogs, and their owners.


macmember

Feb 2, 2006, 8:49 PM

Post #10 of 43 (7156 views)

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Re: [johnv] Cruelty to Animals

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I would have a REAL problem with the barking and the cruelty to animals. Moving to the outskirts of town would bring on the scorpions I hear, plus less neighbors to help watch your house. Everything has it's trade off.

I have mentioned before and I still think that possibly it would be best for us to live on the N side of the Border. We could just cross over for Doctors, Dentists, Chiropractors, Prescriptions. I understand it is pretty cheap to live in the Valley with the Snowbirds. I know it is hot but you have the laws, purified water, zoning and Animal Control.

IF someone out there lives somewhere that they don't have these problems, let us hear.

Beverly


DoDi2


Feb 2, 2006, 11:27 PM

Post #11 of 43 (7134 views)

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Re: [johnv] Cruelty to Animals

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If you don't like the city dogs, believe me.. you'd like the country dogs a let less. One of the problems in rural areas are the packs of dogs that don't have any owner. At night they can be a concern if you go out walking because they come in to the outlying neighborhoods of town to forage. You have to carry a rock or machete (or best of all, your own dog) to fend off feral dogs if you go out walking at night in some rural towns.


DoDi2


Feb 2, 2006, 11:28 PM

Post #12 of 43 (7133 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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haha... maybe we should change the name of this thread to "Cruelty to People"....


Ron Pickering W3FJW


Feb 3, 2006, 12:02 AM

Post #13 of 43 (7131 views)

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Re: [DoDi2] Cruelty to Animals

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Probably a Mastiff would be best. Somehow I can't seem to put much faith in one of those Mexican "che-wawas".
Getting older and still not down here.


johnv

Feb 3, 2006, 7:00 AM

Post #14 of 43 (7109 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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I've already done that, having lived for 2 years in Brownsville in the 1980s. Coming from New York States' Mid-Hudson/Catskill region I will have to say that living in Texas was the most culturless experience of my life. On top of that the weather stinks, in my opinion. (I don't like airconditioning/heating and dampness anymore). It's conservative in central Mexico, but Brownsville was just as bad. Then there are the 75% of the population who have this negative idea and fear of Mexico, many of whom have never even crossed the border, while living right on the border. And there is the high crime rate, compared to Mexico. However, I will have to say that Brownsville did not have a dog problem of any kind.
As for scorpions, I don't see why there would be any difference in the number, whether you lived in or out of town, besides, there danger is highly over-rated. I have no problems with scorpions whatsoever, and I find a number in my house each year.
The people on the ouside of town where I live in Mexico are of a higher moral character than the ones in town from my experiences, and I think burgalry would be a bigger problem in town than out, plus it is possible to build houses that lock up like vaults, and it is within reason to have full time help on the property. I would never trust Mexican neighbors to report suspicious activity at your residence as there is a "no see", don't get involved attitude here, just like there is a "no hear" attitude when it comes to dogs and other NOISE. As for these packs of feral dogs, I am not familiar with them. I think the 18 dogs that my present Mexican neighbors own, would far out number and "feral" dogs. Besides, in the country, it is easier to take dog control into your own hands.


Bubba

Feb 3, 2006, 7:04 AM

Post #15 of 43 (7108 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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MacMember:

The Guadalajara press had an article on the subject of Texas border cities just a week or so ago. They reported that the metropolitan areas of Brownsville and McAllen are the poorest metro areas in the United States. Their emphasis was on the poverty of the large community with Mexican heritage but I would imaging you could live more cheaply there than in some of the areas of Mexico popular with foreigners.

I must admit the roof dogs are a problem in the Chapala area. We have Mexican friends who are plagued not only by incessant noise but by filthy runoff from their neighbor's house every summer as the neighbors never clean up the mess the dogs make on the roof.


sfmacaws


Feb 3, 2006, 8:05 AM

Post #16 of 43 (7089 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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If you want to live in Mexico and not have constant barking dogs and packs of starving strays everywhere, you can move to a coastal tourist town like here in Akumal. It is a cultural thing and gringos do not like to look at suffering animals on their vacations and the mexicans have figured that out. Also the gringo residents support numerous spay and nueter and adoption services that have a huge effect in only a few years. The number of beach dogs here has dropped enormously in the more than 10 years I've been coming here. Now, almost any dog you see will look healthy and well fed even if it lives on the beach. When a new one gets dumped here (which is a frequent occurance) it is taken off to be fixed and treated and they try and find a tourist to take it home. Dogs from the mexican towns off the beach are also spayed and treated and they run a lot of educational stuff for the kids. It's an artificial environment here but it is cleaner and quieter (from dogs) and there aren't the endless sad cases around.

I'm looking to start a human spay clinic for spring break though.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Gringal

Feb 3, 2006, 8:06 AM

Post #17 of 43 (7087 views)

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Re: [DoDi2] Cruelty to Animals

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"Cruelty to People" works for me. I live in one of the quieter colonias in SMA, but was driven to near-madness last year by the two dogs up the street whose incessant barking went on for hours. Eventually, one of them disappeared, and the other quieted down a bit. However, the worst barking experiences were in the good old U.S.A. where the neighbors would leave their two large dogs alone while they were off working. They never shut up. I discovered that you needed three neighbors to complain before the animal control people would do anything at all.

Our in the country, NOB, a person taking a walk, day or night, could have some problems. The dogs, both owned and strays, got together in packs and posed a real threat to both people and livestock. Right now there is a problem in some suburban areas where "pet" pit bulls have attacked people. Gang members like to own the tough guy dogs for their image.

If anybody out there has a solution to this problem, either NOB or here in Mexico, let's hear it.

Since I'm becoming deafer as time goes by, the noise is bothering me less. In a few years, I won't giveadang.


sandykayak


Feb 3, 2006, 9:53 AM

Post #18 of 43 (7061 views)

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Re: [johnv] Cruelty to Animals

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<<Coming from New York States' Mid-Hudson/Catskill region I will have to say that living in Texas was the most culturless experience of my life. >>

Johnv, the above, coupled with your other comments, makes me ask, "How long before you return home to the Catskills?"

It also made me wonder why Bubba hasn't been having a field day with this thread. His post was quite mild. <<<grin>>>

yo, bubba, I can usually count on you for my giggle of the day.
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque


juan david


Feb 3, 2006, 10:34 AM

Post #19 of 43 (7043 views)

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Re: [dtracy8671] Cruelty to Animals

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Great attitude! When I pass a dead dog on the road I always wince a bit, but back north I never blinked at squashed racoons. Hmmm! In the 3 years we've been living at Lake Chapala there has been a noticeable drop in the street dog population and a definite improvement in their girth. I think the spay and neuter program is to be commended. Interestingly, having spent some time in Patzcuaro this past year, you don't see many street dogs there...nor garbage either. Don't know what this all means, but animal life in Mexico...the darker side...is something you have to come to grips with if you plan to live here. On the other hand you have to come to grips with living with more courteous people too.
" let sleeping dogs lie"


johnv

Feb 3, 2006, 10:38 AM

Post #20 of 43 (7042 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] Cruelty to Animals

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Any negative truths concerning Mexico sure do bring the responses... (I could elaborate on trash and rubble-piles)

sandykayak, Actually, I have alot of experience in Mexico going back 34 years, and I like Mexico for sure, and to answer your question, I don't think I'll be going back to NY anytime soon. Actually, the only thing I miss at this point is the scenery, clear flowing water, lack of trash and rubble-piles, and lack of a dog problem. The prices and weather stink.


macmember

Feb 3, 2006, 10:40 AM

Post #21 of 43 (7041 views)

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Re: [johnv] Cruelty to Animals

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The reason I mentioned Scorpions is that they seem to be much worse where there is brush and trees. Personally we moved to the Country and cleared the land, built a house/barns/fences/septic system. The scorpions were EVERYWHERE. By the time we had the house built, the walls, subfloors and attic were full of scorpions. They dropped into the light fixtures and you could see them walking around when the lights were on. You could lay in bed at night and listen to them scratching in the walls and fixtures. You could not put on a piece of clothing or a pair of shoes on without completely shaking and double checking with your hands. We could not find anything but Cloradane that would even slow them down. That chemical is now off the market here and proven to cause Cancer. Lord only knows what we have growing inside of us. We only stayed there 3 1/2 years and they were better when we left, but you would be watching TV and you'd notice movement, there would be a scorpion, walking across the room or on the wall.

I also read on this site that people with vacant lots next door even have problems with scorpions in Mexico. In fact Rolly mentioned that his State has a Scorpion as the????State Emblem???? or something to that effect. Many people say they have to get shots for the bites, from the kind you have down there. The ones here just HURT LIKE HELL. My cats would find them and it was awful to watch them fight!! Both of them on their hind legs swatting at each other. Of course I would run for a piece of wood or something and grab the cat away, NEVER taking my eye off the scorpion. I can't even remember how many times we were stung, but I am phobic about them now. It is real exciting to crawl into bed and have one bite you on your butt......ruins your night.

Our place was about 25 miles South of Ft Worth, Texas. 5 1/2 miles from a loaf of bread (that is a Texism for 5 1/2 miles from anything since you are from New York). We also had a pack of wild dogs that caught me out one night. Had it not been for my 2 German Shepard dogs, that held them off, not much telling what would have happened. I never left the house again without a gun on my hip.

If you read my profile you will see that we owned a Grocery Store. It was in the Inner City of Dallas and I also was NEVER without a gun in my pants and my husband wore an ankle holster. Since both of us have a Handgun License, I do feel uncomfortable about not being allowed to have a gun in Mexico. We always felt that we could handle any situation with an EQUALIZER (except the scorpions).

I suppose you can understand my reasoning for not wanting to move to the Country again.

Wandered on tooooo far.......
Beverly


sandykayak


Feb 3, 2006, 10:46 AM

Post #22 of 43 (7036 views)

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Re: [johnv] Cruelty to Animals

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heh heh..... I hear you. I remember driving home from the Miami airport after a MX fix and reveling in how clean my Miami neighborhood looked.

That's why I/we plan to have two homes...so we can enjoy the best of both worlds for as long as possible.
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque


Jean

Feb 3, 2006, 3:57 PM

Post #23 of 43 (7002 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] Cruelty to Animals

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In 2003 we left Mexico, partly because of the animal situation. I found it difficult.

Now I'm going to return to Mexico and somehow I will cope with the situation because I'd rather be living in Mexico with all the plusses than living where it is cold, snowy and raining most of the time. I'll do what I can to help the animals and those I can't help I'll wince, like Ian does.

Anyone want to buy a house in Penticton :)

Jean
Retirement Communities
http://www.retirecommunities.com


doogie

Feb 3, 2006, 10:29 PM

Post #24 of 43 (6951 views)

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Re: [alex .] Cruelty to Animals

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Yeah I remember that joke. It's funny And it has a relevancy to the topic. This is, of course, only my own observations, but in Mexico "cruelty" to animals such as dogs or cats is in the killing of them, not their sad or squalid existence. As everyone who lives in Mexico knows, there is a lot of misery there. Poverty, hunger, untreated disease, etc. Yet life goes on. It is the same for the animals. Why should they get to be put "out of their misery" when people don't?
Doogie,
Tapatío de corazón


DoDi2


Feb 3, 2006, 11:11 PM

Post #25 of 43 (6945 views)

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Re: [macmember] Cruelty to Animals

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In Reply To
I also read on this site that people with vacant lots next door even have problems with scorpions in Mexico. In fact Rolly mentioned that his State has a Scorpion as the????State Emblem????


I was staying just over the border from Rolly's state at my comadre's house in Gualterio Zac. where I remember trying to chase down alacranes in her bedroom. They're hard little critters to catch!

One day we went over to the market in Vincente Guerrero, Durango. There were all kinds of ashtrays, clocks, and keychains made out scorpions... the clocks had little beige alacranes for the numbers 1 through 11 and a big black scorpion for the 12.

I picked up some scorpion keychains and tshirts with the state critter's picture to bring home as presents.
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