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macmember

Jan 22, 2006, 11:00 PM

Post #1 of 81 (11666 views)

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Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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I have read that a large percentage of people that move SOB don't stay long. What percentage would you say it is? Is there a certain type personality that does not adjust well to the changes? Please tell us of stories you have heard from people moving back.

I am also interested in what happens to the houses? If it takes a year or two for them to sell, who watches over them? Do they finally reduce the prices to just get out

Beverly



alex .

Jan 23, 2006, 6:14 AM

Post #2 of 81 (11633 views)

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Re: [macmember] the TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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Someone who expects the goverment to take care of him, someone who confuses the Court of Law with a Court of Justice, someone who expects tomorrow to be the same as today, will not do well.
Alex


sfmacaws


Jan 23, 2006, 6:28 AM

Post #3 of 81 (11627 views)

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Re: [alex .] the TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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Someone who gets angry dealing with bureaucracy, highly values cleanliness and order, often says "but that doesn't make sense", feels that "someone should DO something" when confronted with cruelty or injustice, or is passionate about their politics and considers themselves an activist.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




1ajijic


Jan 23, 2006, 6:33 AM

Post #4 of 81 (11619 views)

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Re: [macmember] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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The carrying costs here are basically nonexistent so , no, people don't generally have to give away their properties just to get out. The gardener and maid will watch a property like it was their family, if they have been treated fairly by the owners. Yes some properties are on the market for years, but, these are usually vastly overpriced. They sell when the market catches up to their price or the owners wise up. Realtors will give a pie in the sky price just to get the listing - just like NOB.

The type of person who goes on vacation and has it ruined by the things that go wrong won't make it here. The type of person who has fun despite the obstacles will make it. It is a simplistic answer to a complex question but, one, I bet a lot will agree with.
http://www.newbeginningsmexico.com


Gringal

Jan 23, 2006, 9:01 AM

Post #5 of 81 (11582 views)

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Re: [macmember] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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We've been taking some bus trips lately with folks who are here to escape the chilly North or who are wondering if they should move here. The questions asked are revealing, such as:
"WHAT are you going to do if you have medical problems?"
"Can you get the kinds of food you like here?"
"Where can I get a real New York pizza around here?"
"What about all the trash?"
"What are you going to do if the government confiscates your property after the next election?"
"What about all the crime?"
"What about all the government corruption?"

I won't comment on these questions, or say what my answers have been. I sometimes have a little fun with the last two. Mexico is not a good place for worriers or the inflexible. But where is?


Esteban

Jan 23, 2006, 9:10 AM

Post #6 of 81 (11577 views)

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Re: [macmember] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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Since retirement folks in Mexico tend to be older, gringos who move to Mexico have to depend on old folks for friends. I'm not saying that's bad or good but it's nice to have friends of all ages.

You can make Mexican friends but then you have to learn Spanish. Now if you are a gringo, you've fulfilled your lifelong dream of living away from other gringos, you may be setting yourself up for a very lonely life.

Even in Mazatlan, with it's, mas or menos, 3000 gringos, life amongst the nortes is much like living in a small village in Kansas. Sometimes it IS Kansas and that may suck to many.

Without the gringo enclaves you have very little choice when it comes to making friends. Some people fit in anywhere, others do not.

I've seen the look of lonliness and consequent depression from a combination of many of the things people are talking about in this thread but all in all, it boiled down to interpersonal relationships.


julian3345

Jan 23, 2006, 9:20 AM

Post #7 of 81 (11568 views)

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Re: [macmember] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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I've written this before in a post, but I have found that living in Mexico is a lot like living in California about 60+ years ago....during WW II. While there is a thin veneer of modernity (computers, telephones) which is often very costly, I find myself doing things that remind me of my childhood...hanging out laundry; shopping in several stores to find something seemingly common like, steel wool or a hot water bottle; having small things repaired instead of buying a new one; finding and dealing with household help, eating questionable meat.... I do get impatient occasionally and ask those "why can't they questions"... why can't they make decent matches? what's the deal with toilet seats?

The larger issue of living under a corrupted Napoleonic Legal Code rather than a relatively transparent Magna Carta/English Common Law Code is a consideration.

When I think about which of my friends would NOT do well in Mexico, it is the folks used to organic food, huge variety in restaurants and stores, great radio and TV, business and governmental efficiency, dependable postal and delivery systems (for ordering online) ease and safety of travel, guaranteed creature comforts...heat, water, electricity, pollution control, customer service, etc. I think one has to be able to "go with the flow and ride with the tide" but always at the same time be on the "qui vive" !

Houses here are often very overpriced...fishing expeditions...in many areas there aren't market comparables and a lot of inventory, so if the sellers are truly motivated, the price has to come down...often about a third to a half of the asking price. Otherwise these properties stay on the market a very long time. Joan


Gringal

Jan 23, 2006, 9:54 AM

Post #8 of 81 (11556 views)

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Re: [Esteban] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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"Now if you are a gringo, you've fulfilled your lifelong dream of living away from other gringos, you may be setting yourself up for a very lonely life. "

You nailed that one.

A friend once observed that "some people live their lives as though they were in a movie." Much food for thought there, especially as it applies to the people who move to isolated places away from other gringos so that they will feel more special. Watching reruns of your "different" life in your head is usually not as much fun as partying with your friends on real time.


Bubba

Jan 23, 2006, 11:02 AM

Post #9 of 81 (11537 views)

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Re: [julian3345] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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Oh, I don't know about that, Joan:

I'm trying to remember what I got from "business and government efficiency" in California that I don't get here. Let's see, in the San Francisco Bay Area I would pay about $15,000USD a year in property taxes and 10% or more of my income in income taxes to the state whereas here I pay $125USD year in property taxes and no state income taxes at all. Here,we pay about $160USD a month for major medical insurance providing fabulous private hospital care where I'm treated like a king and in the United States, that major medical would cost me $1,200 a month so I could be be treated like a niusance for five minutes and given a community room in a charnal house where I could share a bedpan with a stranger.

My $200,000USD house in Ajijic would cost me $2,000,000 in San Francisco (and no, I am not making this up) and I could look for government efficiency at the unbelievably corrupt San Francisco City and County Hall, the crooked state government in Sacramento or the incompetent freaks at the California Department of Motor Vehicles or the State Franchise Tax Board. If I got tired of being kicked around by those freaks, I could always accompany my wife to the U.S Immigration and Naturalization Service, San Francisco branch where she could be treated like a criminal for having the temerity to want to become a U.S. citizen after 30 years as an executive in a major multi-national company headquartered in New York.

"Great Radio and T.V."
You cannot be serious Here I get countless U.S and Canadian channels, local Mexican cable, the Canadian networks, TV Espana and the BBC. After watching the Chipmunks (Soledad & Miles) on CNN every morning, I can switch to TV Azteca or the Canadian news broadcasts to get some perspective other that the U.S. insular crap that brings down the community IQ in the U.S. to that of the Nebraska outback.

"Ease and Safety of Travel"
Have you tried driving in such traffic hellholes as San Francisco, Seattle, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Washington D.C or New York lately? Do you have any idea how much of my life I wasted trying to commute to work in the San Francisco area for more years that I wish to remember? Do you have any idea how many times my wife or I got up at 3:00AM to get to SFO so we could have a sales meeting in Denver or Seattle just so everybody could get drunk later and pat themselves on the back for wasting prescious oxygen.

"Heat, Water, Electricity and Pollution Control".
Well, I've lived in Mexico for five years and I get heat, water and electricity all the time. When I last lived in California, Ken Ley and his band of thieves charged me over $1,000USD a month for the privilege of lighting or cooling or heating my house and they made fun of me and my compratiots in California who were dependent on their services and you call Mexico corrupt!

Here I just open the door.

"Customer Service and Dependable Delivery Systems".
I'll give you a dependable delivery system. Every day that I wake up, God delivers me sunshine, magnificent weather and then he blesses me with perpetually green and fruiting plants and I say Thank you Jesus for giving me the foresight to get out of that God-forsaken place NOB and if any of you don't like it here, get the hell out of here!

You simply would not believe the corruption that I experienced in the deep south in the 1940s and 1950s. It is inappropriate to speak of those who do and do not belong anyplace. One is of that place from which one draws sustenance and if that is at the sacrifice if others so be it. Stop feeling low about injustice and have that next glass of wine while thanking God you are not in their shoes.





(This post was edited by Bubba on Jan 23, 2006, 11:22 AM)


1ajijic


Jan 23, 2006, 11:56 AM

Post #10 of 81 (11516 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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"WHAT are you going to do if you have medical problems?" I had the best insurance and the best medical care metro NYC could provide. It doesn't hold a candle to the caring efficient care in Guadalajara. That's just another myth that the AMA pumps into Americans so that their members can become multi millionaires without an uprising. How does the US rate in infant mortality and longevity? Wake up and smell the rotting system!

"Can you get the kinds of food you like here?" When you know where to look and besides if not that's what visitors are for.

"Where can I get a real New York pizza around here?" Beats the hell out of me. But, you can get real Italian Pizza here and in Guadalajara. Besides, how about making it?

"What about all the trash?" What trash? I have trash pickup six days a week. My gardener handles it and they recycle in the truck. Jalisco does have a problem. Remember this is like the states of the 50s. They have education and environmental programs which will work in time.

"What are you going to do if the government confiscates your property after the next election?" I'll go north and confiscate Carlos Slim's property. It should compensate me enough. Seriously, the economies are too intertwined for that. There is extensive foreign investment in Mexico. North America is becoming one country to some extent.

"What about all the crime?" What crime? What they say in US papers? Maybe Mexico should learn from Washington DC? When I was a kid on the Jersey shore there were constant rapes on the beach, but, they never made it into the papers because of political connections. The criminals here are basically amateurs and juveniles that learned their trade courtesy of the US.

"What about all the government corruption?" The politicians have to go NOB to learn how to do it right!
http://www.newbeginningsmexico.com


jennifer rose

Jan 23, 2006, 12:21 PM

Post #11 of 81 (11509 views)

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Re: [macmember] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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They say that Mexico's not for the anal-retentive, obsessive-compulsive, but I've seen folks whom I thought would never make it flourish here. And I've seen very casual, accepting, let-it-all-hang-out kinds who would appear to live well anywhere scurry back over the northern border. All that says is that you just can never tell.

A couple of years ago, a good friend visited me for a few weeks in Morelia and then we went on for a few days in San Miguel de Allende. This friend is one I'd tag as one of those kinds who'd never like living in Mexico, and I sensed that she was sort of freaked out by some of the things we have to do on a regular basis in this country, stuff like worrying about the water, paying everything in cash, waiting, and not being able to get everything on demand. She surprised me a few weeks ago by announcing that she was researching a five-year plan to move to a "gringo enclave like San Miguel de Allende" in a nice gated community. For her, a place like San Miguel seemed like the right fit.


julian3345

Jan 23, 2006, 1:56 PM

Post #12 of 81 (11474 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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Gosh, I'm really sorry you had all those problems in California. I guess I was getting away with something as I was much more gently used there...and I certainly don't consider it a perfect place. Many times, ordinary people in government offices...the DMV, Franchise Tax Board, County Clerk helped me through very difficult or complicated situations, wiped out backlogged fines and penalties, found deeply archived documents, etc. And, I actually like driving in San Francisco, but I never had to commute there in a private car.

Please understand...I'm happy to be here because those drawbacks I mentioned don't mean a whole lot to me and there are other values to living in Mexico that I appreciate..some of which you mention.

I'm sure that you are always aware of the fact that you live in a special enclave of Mexico enjoying that veneer or modernity...like TV from other parts of the world. Me, I'm just fine with a sporadically pirated feed from ABC on my local cable....an even trade for being able to live in Zacatecas. Joan


zoeq1000


Jan 23, 2006, 5:25 PM

Post #13 of 81 (11407 views)

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Re: [julian3345] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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I think that a gringo who wouldn't make it here is one who defines themselves by how important they were NOB. That type of mentality has to fall away here. Because nobody gives a darn what you did in your past life. Are you a kind person? Do you like others even though they are different from you? Are you a good neighbor and care about your fellow neighbors? Can you adjust to not having everything at your fingertips all the time?


julian3345

Jan 23, 2006, 6:07 PM

Post #14 of 81 (11396 views)

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Re: [zoeq1000] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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Very well said and I agree wholeheartedly! It's really not about your trappings, etc...it's about grow where you are planted! Joan


TlxcalaClaudia

Jan 23, 2006, 6:40 PM

Post #15 of 81 (11380 views)

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Re: [zoeq1000] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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Because nobody gives a darn what you did in your past life.

yep-
I have to agree there and add 'in your current life either.' And I didn't have to leave NOB to learn that one since many of the Nava clan live NOB (temporarily). To this day hubby and fam could care less what degree or how many I have, who I worked for (except NASA, that one won me a little curiosity, but nothing more) or what research is and how much of it I did or what being published means. He could care little how I pronounce 'Vase' or 'tomato'...it all sounds the same to him. When you think about it and actually experience being accepted for just being you, it is all silly. He (and they) just love(s) me for little ole me (they don't even detect a southern accent which means I REALLY can be myself around them). What better way to be loved? I could fall off the face of the earth and they would miss my mispronounciations more than my accomplishments (because they like to laugh at my gringo accent).

C


zoeq1000


Jan 23, 2006, 7:08 PM

Post #16 of 81 (11369 views)

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Re: [Esteban] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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For heaven's sake, if you can't speak Spanish or don't want to learn, don't go to a place where most people don't speak Spanish. I did move to a Spanish-speaking area without knowing Spanish but got lessons right away. We wouldn't make it here with no Spanish. Our friends are a handful of Americans and Canadians who wandered into this area and fell in love with it. If you're not a pleasant person (I'm trying to be nice), you just won't make it unless you like being alone. Adjusting to people and circumstances is important when living in Mexico. We have Mexican friends, too, but only because the daughter is 15 and speaks English very well. There are also Mexicans who have lived NOB who speak English nicely. One of the rules I made for myself after a while was do serious business only with English-speaking people, like remodeling your house, your notorio, etc, etc. We were trying to use Spanish-only architects and it was a joke.


Anonimo

Jan 24, 2006, 4:04 AM

Post #17 of 81 (11319 views)

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Re: [macmember] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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I think of myself as flexible, tolerant, adaptable, with a great love for many things in Mexico, but I also get mightily pi22ed off at times, fed up to — here—, with some of the crap I have to put up with, uncomplainingly, because I want to be a "Good Gringo". (Heark back to the noisy neighbors theme)

Yesterday was one of those days, mostly small stuff, but in the aggregate, made me question our living here. However, on awakening this morning, I feel more positive about the place, so I think I'll stay. I don't want to miss those beautiful views of Lake Patzcuaro, the charming buildings, the lively and colorful mercado, and the mostly nice people we meet.
But, still, sometimes, POW!



Saludos,
Anonimo


dolores57

Jan 24, 2006, 10:15 AM

Post #18 of 81 (11262 views)

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Re: [Anonimo] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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You know this kind of frustration can happen in any new country not just Mexico. When I lived in Italy every day I had some kind of frustration with the way they did things that was not the way I was used to. When my daughter lived in Sweden it was the same thing. The option is to stay in the USA where your more familiar with the "style" of day to day life. Even here, like this morning dealing with the phone company for the 4th time because they cant get their s@%% together I felt like killing someone......and you know why because the America I grew up with in the 50's is sure not the america I live in now as far as how sanely and efficiently it is run. So adaptability is probably the key personality trait and the desire to always be experiencing new things as oppossed to being bored to death with the same ole tried and true. d


sfmacaws


Jan 24, 2006, 5:57 PM

Post #19 of 81 (11192 views)

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Re: [Anonimo] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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Anonimo,

That was one of the most honest posts I've seen on here. I applaud you for telling the truth, it happens to all of us and I think we'd be brain dead if it didn't. There are things about Mexico that just plain suck and there are things that are irredescent in their beauty, you have to experience them both.

I'm working mightily on my "ni modo" attitude today, I'm angry and know I won't accomplish anything positive if I express the anger (to a mexican) but my american soul really wants to vent on the appropriate person instead of my friends. I want to just "tell it like it is" and not beat around the bush with lots of niceties that I don't mean. It's irritating and frustrating and at this moment I think the mexican way of dealing with these things just sucks. I've been mad about this situation for several days and I keep telling myself not to confront the person but to wait another day and hope I can keep the confrontation out of my voice and attitude, I thought maybe today but no, I need another day at least. I would think ulcers would be endemic here with bottling all this up and having to be nice about stuff that makes you mad or risk a much bigger tear in the relationship than you want. Hopefully tomorrow I will get this in perspective and realize it is cosmically unimportant ... Ojalá


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Anonimo

Jan 24, 2006, 6:14 PM

Post #20 of 81 (11187 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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Jonna, you expressed that very well. That''s similar to how I felt.

Saludos,
Anonimo



Quote
I'm working mightily on my "ni modo" attitude today, I'm angry and know I won't accomplish anything positive if I express the anger (to a mexican) but my american soul really wants to vent on the appropriate person instead of my friends. I want to just "tell it like it is" and not beat around the bush with lots of niceties that I don't mean. It's irritating and frustrating and at this moment I think the mexican way of dealing with these things just sucks. I've been mad about this situation for several days and I keep telling myself not to confront the person but to wait another day and hope I can keep the confrontation out of my voice and attitude, I thought maybe today but no, I need another day at least. I would think ulcers would be endemic here with bottling all this up and having to be nice about stuff that makes you mad or risk a much bigger tear in the relationship than you want. Hopefully tomorrow I will get this in perspective and realize it is cosmically unimportant ... Ojalá



Ron Pickering W3FJW


Jan 24, 2006, 6:36 PM

Post #21 of 81 (11177 views)

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Re: [Anonimo] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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Have you thought about hanging a punching bag from your ceiling and venting your anger on it. It does work !!
Getting older and still not down here.


sfmacaws


Jan 24, 2006, 11:30 PM

Post #22 of 81 (11136 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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No punching bag. I've been sick the last few days, really bad bronchitis, and I wasn't getting enough air to do anything strenuous. I finally went to the dr today, he told me I should have come earlier and now I'm on cortisone, antibiotics and some other lung stuff. I'm feeling better from the cortisone but I'm still not up to a punching bag.

Of interest, the cost of going to dr over here in gringolandia has gone up considerably. The last time I was sick here, 2 years ago, the dr came to the house, gave me a shot, prescribed medicine, sent his brother the pharmacist to deliver the meds, came back by to check on me a couple days later and the total cost was about $150 US. Today, I went to his office, got one shot, scripts to fill and my temperature taken and it was $90 US but not including the meds. He quoted the price in US dollars and when I paid him in pesos he gave me a dollar bill for change. Weird.

Back to my problems with mexican ways at times, here's a story where I didn't hold it back. We went up to Chamula when we were in Chiapas to buy some more copal incense at a store we had been at the day before. The store was only 2 doors from the parking lot where they make the gringos park and when we tried to pull into the parking place in front of it a man came down the street yelling at us that we had to park in the gringo lot and we had to pay him to guide us. All this was in spanish and I'm the only one who speaks or understands it. I was in the back seat and the only man in the car was my friend Bobby who was driving. I leaned over and told him in spanish that we were just buying something in this store and didn't need a guide. He ignored me and again demanded from Bobby that we pay for a guide and park with the gringos. I again tried to answer him as Bobby didn't understand a word he said and was just looking at him blankly and this time he did one of those sideways waves of the hand, dismissing me and continued talking to Bobby. At that point I was sick of his macho shit and gave him the old middle finger while saying the usual accompaniment of "F*** You" in english. Bobby put it in reverse and turned around, as we were leaving his wife Patty leaned out and yelled something like 'no money for you idiot' at him and we left him gaping at us. It felt really, really good. It was politically incorrect as hell but sometimes that macho ignore the women and only speak to the man BS is too much to take.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Ron Pickering W3FJW


Jan 24, 2006, 11:51 PM

Post #23 of 81 (11132 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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Sorry to hear about your illness. Hope you get better soon. That "macho" guy sounds like he got his training trying to wash windshields in Times Square. Personally, I don't believe in "political correctness". I think it's a big bunch of s*** !
Getting older and still not down here.


Ron Pickering W3FJW


Jan 24, 2006, 11:59 PM

Post #24 of 81 (11128 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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PS: My post about the punching bag was meant for Anonimo. I hit the wrong reply link. Sorry 'bout that, but recover fast before more snow falls.
Getting older and still not down here.


shoe


Jan 25, 2006, 2:20 AM

Post #25 of 81 (11122 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Is there a TYPE of person that does not do well in Mexico?

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Hey you all, When you get up in the morning and look into the mirror, ask yourself one question. Am I having fun? If the answer is "NO", then you are looking at the problem. FIX IT. Do not blame others.

shoe

Nothing is intrinsically good or evil, but its manner of usage may make it so.
-St. Thomas Aquinas
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