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TigerTonio

Feb 26, 2005, 9:17 AM

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Copper Canyon Travel During Christmas

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Hello There!

My partner and I plan to make a trip to the Copper Canyon region during the last two weeks of December. We are flying to Morelia first, and then we will travel to Copper Canyon from there. After the Copper Canyon, we plan to return to Chicago. I'd be MOST appreciative of anyone who can help me out with the following questions/concerns:

1) Are the last two weeks of December a good time to take the train across the canyon?

2) We plan to make the trip from Morelia but are not quite sure which is best route and whether to fly, drive or take a bus to Los Mochis. What is the approximate travel time if we drive to Los Mochis? Is there a direct flight from Morelia to Los Mochis? Would be better, logistically, to just to fly to Chihuahua and get a roundtrip ticket to Los Mochis?

3) Tickets. Should we make train ticket reservations in advance? How exactly do the tickets work? Do the tickets expire at a certain time? Does a single ticket allow us to make a certain number of nightly stops without an extra charge? Or do we have to purchase a new ticket after each nightly stop from the area where we are staying?

4) If we do drive, to Los Mochis, is it worth it to spend a night in El Fuerte and board the train there, rather than in Los Mochis? Is there regular bus service in Los Mochis to El Fuerte?

5) I definitely plan to visit Batopilas but not sure where to stay before going down there. Is it better to stay in Creel or Copper Canyon Sierra Lodge in Cusarare?

Thanks for any help that can be provided.

Kind Regards,

Tony Anaya
Chicago

(This post was edited by TigerTonio on Feb 26, 2005, 2:20 PM)

raferguson

Feb 26, 2005, 2:58 PM

Post #2 of 20 (2881 views)

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Re: [TigerTonio] Copper Canyon Travel During Christmas

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I will take a shot at some answers.

December will be cold at that altitude, so dress warmly. I thought that Chicagoans would want to go somewhere warm in January. Days will be short, so much of the trip will be in the dark. However, it is during the dry season, which is good in terms of minimizing train delays.

I remember having a ticket that covered each leg of the trip, as we made a couple of overnight stops, but that was years ago.

From Morelia, it is about 15 hours travel time to Los Mochis. If you took a bus, you would probably change in Guadalajara and perhaps Culiacan. One way car rentals are likely to be prohibitively expensive or unavailable. An alternative would be to take the bus to Mexico City and fly to Los Mochis or Chihuahua.

For the trip you want to do, I would suggest flying into Morelia or Mexico City, and out of Chihuahua.

It is a busy time of year to travel without reservations, perhaps a good reason to fly to Los Mochis, since it is hard to book bus travel from the US.

Los Mochis is not that great a place, but I have heard good things about El Fuerte, so I suggest you stay in El Fuerte. Unsure about how to get there, but if there is no convenient bus, you can take a taxi, it is probably not much more than half an hour.

Good luck and have fun,
Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

TigerTonio

Feb 27, 2005, 8:55 AM

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Re: [raferguson] Copper Canyon Travel During Christmas

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Ha! Strangely enough, I'm a native Californian and have only lived in Chicago for 2 1/2 years. Yes, I DO hate the weather here but I also have this thing about traveling during the holidays. People -- superficial or not -- tend to be friendlier and the festive atmospheres tend to add more to the vacation. We will also be in other areas of Mexico during December. Copper Canyon isn't exactly Brugge during Christmas but still looking forward to visiting this area, even though the rim is likely to be cold. It certainly couldn't be any colder than the windy winter days where I have to walk from the Metra station to my office in the Merchandise Mart building alongside the Chicago River! Brrrrr!

Now, in response to your response:

The Cold. Not a problem. But isn't the canyon below much warmer than the rim?

Tickets. It sounds like I need to have the trip meticulously planned out before I order advance reservations for each leg of my trip. Not a problem.

Los Mochis/El Fuerte. I'm convinced! El Fuerte is the place to be!

Trip to/from Mexico from US. We still need to work this out as I am flying into Mexico about three weeks before my partner arrives. I do believe that Chihuahua is going to definitely be the point of departure for both of us at the end of the trip.

Heavens to Mergatroid -- this is going to be a tad bit expensive! Getting to and from the Copper Canyon isn't an easy thing to do, is it?

Richard, thanks so much for your advice. I really do appreciate your time and willingness to help out this poor soul.

Kind Regards,

Tony Anaya
Chicago

Ed and Fran

Feb 27, 2005, 10:15 AM

Post #4 of 20 (2848 views)

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Re: [TigerTonio] Copper Canyon Travel During Christmas

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Tickets. It sounds like I need to have the trip meticulously planned out before I order advance reservations for each leg of my trip. Not a problem.

From all I've read about it, winter is the high season. Lot's of tours from up north. Reservations would be highly recommended.

The Cold. Not a problem. But isn't the canyon below much warmer than the rim?

That's one reason why winter is actually the high season for Copper Canyon tours. It's real hot down below in the summer.

Los Mochis/El Fuerte. I'm convinced! El Fuerte is the place to be!

Good choice. The train ride between Los Mochis and El Fuerte is rather flat.

btw, we're hoping to make the trip this summer.

Regards

E&F

Carron

Feb 27, 2005, 10:15 AM

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Re: [TigerTonio] Copper Canyon Travel During Christmas

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We have lived full time in Mexico for almost seven years now and our dream still is to do the Copper Canyon trip. We first read about it in one of the earliest editions of Carl Franz and it seemed to fit our lifestyle and budget--backpacking in second class accommodations, speaking a little Spanish, and buying antojitos from the locals along the way.

Now that we are retired and actually have the time to make the trip, all the info I find on the Net suggests that it is a First Class only tour, no longer offering services to those of us who travel second class. Does anyone have information about whether the train is still even available to locals? Can we get something that doesn't cost $1000US per person with a couple of $200/night stays at lodges without heat or electricity?

wendy devlin

Feb 27, 2005, 10:39 AM

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Re: [Carron] Copper Canyon Travel During Christmas

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Carron,

There seems to be several options to travelling and staying in the Copper Canyon. Keith, Machi and Chema have long owned a unique guest house and camping/bunk house situation in the bottom of the canyon in Urique.

Evidentially their caretaker Maruka is running the place these days(URL below) but Keith and Machi are frequest posters on the Lonely Planet Thorntree Mexico branch and often answer questions about the Copper Canyon. Visit there and type in Copper Canyon in the forum search engine, and likely a lot of up-to-date travelling, cost etc. info will show up.http://home.comcast.net/~ramsay52/

Ed and Fran

Feb 27, 2005, 1:06 PM

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Re: [wendy devlin] Copper Canyon Travel During Christmas

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As far as the train goes, there's both the first class train and a separate clase economica service. The link to the train website is www.chepe.com.mx. Chepe is the nickname for the Ferrocarril Chihuahua Pacifico (ChP).

Mexico Desconocido has one of their Edición Especiales on Barrancas de Cobre y Estado de Chihuahua. Only one small section on the train, but lots of info on each of the main barrancas. I just bought it and it looks to be real useful to me for trip planning. Great fold out map also.

Looks to me like it can be done economically, you just won't be staying at that hotel in Divisadero with the great view. But there should be no shortage of great views on the trip.

Regards

E&F

TigerTonio

Feb 28, 2005, 7:13 AM

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Re: [TigerTonio] Copper Canyon Travel During Christmas

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Wow...some fantastic information here. A million thanks. Heck, I'm ready to go NOW! :-D

I only wish I could get Mexico Desconocido. Love that mag! But I have trouble finding the regular editions here in Chicago, but less the especial. The price for subscribing is an excruciatingly painful one.

Glad you brought up Urique as I had been wanting to ask about it. Is it worth a visit? What is the best way to get down there? And the people you mention that own a place there -- are they posters here on Mexico Connect?

Best, Tony
Chicago

jshrall

Feb 28, 2005, 1:13 PM

Post #9 of 20 (2778 views)

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Re: [TigerTonio] Copper Canyon Travel During Christmas

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In Reply To

5) I definitely plan to visit Batopilas but not sure where to stay before going down there. Is it better to stay in Creel or Copper Canyon Sierra Lodge in Cusarare?

I guess that being a dry town is probably a consideration for survival because of the high probability of a fatal accident going up or down after drinking.

Ed and Fran

Mar 1, 2005, 6:22 AM

Post #10 of 20 (2753 views)

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Re: [TigerTonio] Copper Canyon Travel During Christmas

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Glad you brought up Urique as I had been wanting to ask about it. Is it worth a visit? What is the best way to get down there?

Guide book seems to think so, but it all depends on what you're looking for.

Assuming you're not driving, looks like you could take a bus from Creel to Cerocahui. Or you could take the train to Bahuichivo, then on to Cerocahui by local transport (I would assume local bus type). Cerocahui is about 42 km past Divisadero, or 15 km from Bahuichivo. It's another 30 km by dirt road and some 2 km down into Urique. Supposed to be the deepest of the canyons. This would also be by local transport.

Regards

E&F

TigerTonio

Mar 2, 2005, 9:13 AM

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Re: [Ed and Fran] Copper Canyon -- WILDLIFE?

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Dear Ed and Fran (or anyone else),

Love this! In one week, my new subscription to this website has already paid for itself! Again, THANKS!

What about the wildlife in the area? I've read that there's everything from bears and Mexican wolves to Jaguars and Military Macaws in the copper canyon region. Just knowing there are are bears south of the US border facsinates me to no end. And Jaguars down in the canyon? Wow. Admittedly, reading about the wolves sort of freak me out. How common are wildlife sitings in the region?

Kind Regards,

Tony in Chicago

Ed and Fran

Mar 2, 2005, 10:21 AM

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Re: [TigerTonio] Copper Canyon -- WILDLIFE?

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How common are wildlife sitings in the region?

I have no idea. But if we get to go this summer I'll report back.

E&F

esperanza

Mar 2, 2005, 11:59 AM

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Re: [TigerTonio] Copper Canyon -- WILDLIFE?

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Oh, that kind of wildlife! I thought we might be going back to Con la Rojas. Jajajajajajajajajajjaja.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

TigerTonio

Mar 2, 2005, 12:38 PM

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Re: [esperanza] Copper Canyon -- WILDLIFE?

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Lions and tigers and bears...oh my! OK, in this thread it's just about the bears. :-D The lions and tigers are at Con la Rojas in marvelous Morelia! Maybe a few snakes, too. ;-)

-Tony

TigerTonio

Jan 11, 2006, 8:28 AM

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Re: [Tio Toño] Copper Canyon -- WILDLIFE?

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Many, many thanks to those who offered advice and words of wisdom on the Copper Canyon. After recently spending two weeks there, all I have to say is...WOW.

Ed and Fran

Jan 11, 2006, 2:26 PM

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Re: [Tio Toño] Copper Canyon -- WILDLIFE?

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all I have to say is...WOW.

No, that won't cut it. It's payback time. We need a short (or preferably long) trip report to help those of us still planning to go. ;-)

Regards

E&F

TigerTonio

Jan 14, 2006, 12:53 PM

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Re: [Ed and Fran] Copper Canyon

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OK, for YOU, Ed & Fran! It was the experience of a lifetime. No the first class 'Chepe' train doesn't compare to the Glacier Express in Switzerland, but it was still wonderful, nonetheless. If we ever do this again, I'd recommend starting in El Fuerte. You'll pick up a couple of hours more sleeping time and besides that, the scenery doesn't kick in until El Fuerte. If starting the trip from the West (highly recommended for daylight hours viewing), be sure to reserve a seat on the right side of the train as this is the side with the most scenery.

We really wanted to see the Basaseachi Falls area but it was too dry. All the more reason for a return trip!

We didn't experience snow but again, the locals indicated that they were experiencing a dry winter. It was very cold, though...expecially in Creel area! At the bottom of the canyon in Batopilas, temps were about 30 degrees warmer. Amazing.

Itinerary:

Los Mochis -- 1 night
Santa Anita Hote (standard tourist hotel)l. Breakfast included but it didn't matter because we had to catch the 6am train. Free internet service in 'business center'. I arrived here from previously spending five weeks in Guanajuato (capital), Morelia, and Guadalajara. My friend flew in from Chicago.

Posada Barrancas (cerca de Divisadero) -- 2 nights
Hotel Mansion Tarahumara (Thanks to Tony Burton's article!)
All wonderful meals included. No it's not on the edge, but it's a short hike to the vista. And WOW, what a view! Lots of caves, plenty of Tarahumara. Two nights is more than enough time here.

Creel -- 3 nights
Best Western "The Lodge in Creel" (one night)
Limited breakfast included
Sierra Lodge (two nights) All meals (great) included. This hotel was hotel was located about 5-10 miles outside of Creel, smack in the middle of a Tarahumara community. Within hiking distance from Cascada Cusarare. No electricity, but plenty of Keroseine lighting and hot water. It was 15 degrees farenheit outside but a huge fireplace kept us warm inside! A great experience.
Creel itself was nothing special. Plenty of tourists. We did notice that the Tarahumara in the Creel area were nowhere near as shy as they were in the Posada Barrancas area.

Batopilas -- 3 nights.
Hotel Real de Minas (one night).
Hotel Riverside Lodge (two nights). This was like staying in a museum. Plenty of old books, antiques and history here. The owner of Hotel Real de Minas manages this hotel.
The ride down to Batopilas was more excting than the train ride. If you're one to get motion sickness easily, be sure to take your meds. This trip is not for the faint of heart.

Creel -- 1 night.
We altared our plans and returned to the Sierra Lodge for one more night -- we loved it THAT much.

Chihuahua (ciudad) -- 3 nights.
Hotel San Francisco (Now a Quality Inn). Standard, business hotel, no meals included. However, a full restaurant on premises. Free internet service in business center. Some of the best damn steak houses I've ever had the pleasure of visiting. Recommended restaurants: Calesa for steaks. El Retablo for Mexican (gorgeous interior) and Los Mezquites for steaks. El Retablo and Los Mezquites have same owner.

Ed & Fran, this is rather rushed and if I'm forgetting anything -- or you have more questions, just ask! I'll check in again later.

(This post was edited by tonyburton on Jan 14, 2006, 8:21 PM)

Ed and Fran

Jan 14, 2006, 6:58 PM

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Re: [Tio Toño] Copper Canyon

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Toño,

Great report, very thorough. Thanks. But of course I have just a few more questions, if you don’t mind.

If we ever do this again, I'd recommend starting in El Fuerte. You'll pick up a couple of hours more sleeping time and besides that, the scenery doesn't kick in until El Fuerte.

Actually we’re planning on doing a round trip, Chihuahua – El Fuerte – Chihuahua, stopping at El Fuerte for just the very reasons you mentioned.

… be sure to reserve a seat on the right side of the train as this is the side with the most scenery.

Were you able to reserve at time of making reservations, or when boarding? Someone else had said you couldn’t pre-reserve seats, just the ticket.

Posada Barrancas - Hotel Mansion Tarahumara … No it's not on the edge, but it's a short hike to the vista. And WOW, what a view! Lots of caves, plenty of Tarahumara. Two nights is more than enough time here.

Did you hike down the canyon? Or just hike around up on the ridge?

Creel - Sierra Lodge … This hotel was hotel was located about 5-10 miles outside of Creel, smack in the middle of a Tarahumara community. Within hiking distance from Cascada Cusarare. No electricity, but plenty of Keroseine lighting and hot water. It was 15 degrees farenheit outside but a huge fireplace kept us warm inside! A great experience.

Suppose I ought to look it up, but are they cabins? I’ll assume easy local bus transport between Creel and the lodge?

Batopilas ……. The ride down to Batopilas was more excting than the train ride. If you're one to get motion sickness easily, be sure to take your meds. This trip is not for the faint of heart.

Where did you arrange the ride, or did you do that when you booked the hotel?

Thanks again,

Ed & Fran

TigerTonio

Jan 18, 2006, 9:26 AM

Post #19 of 20 (2467 views)

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Re: [Ed and Fran] Copper Canyon

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In Reply To

Were you able to reserve at time of making reservations, or when boarding? Someone else had said you couldn’t pre-reserve seats, just the ticket.
Yes...absolutely! Making reservations on Chepe were surprisingly easy. I made the reservation over the phone. The representative that I spoke with at the time (Silvia) spoke both Spanish and English. She not only accomodated me with seats on the right side (important if you're coming from Los Mochis or El Fuerte), but she gave me RESERVED seats. I requested an email confirmation and she sent the email that included the reservation number as well as the seat and car assignments. I'd refer you to the website but at the moment, it's down. You can check in on it later, perhaps. www.chepe.com.mx Telephone: 011 52 614 439 7212 Telephone National: 01 800 122 4373 Email: chepe@ferromex.com.mx

Posada Barrancas - Hotel Mansion Tarahumara … No it's not on the edge, but it's a short hike to the vista. And WOW, what a view! Lots of caves, plenty of Tarahumara. Two nights is more than enough time here.

Did you hike down the canyon? Or just hike around up on the ridge? We did hike down a bit but not too far. There are numerous Tarahumara caves and cabins in the Posada Barrancas area. Even though we were encouraged by the hotel to hike into all areas and that we wouldn't be bothered, we felt as though we were intruding. We didn't do any serious hiking until we reached the Creel area. The Sierra Lodge arranged an 8-hr hike with a Tarahumara guide (for a fee). It was an amazing hike that took us through some incredible terrain that included hot springs. Very strenuous hike! We were out of breath before we even made it to the summit (and I thought I was in decent shape!) but the Tarahumara guide was still ready to climb a few more mountains. Even more remarkable was the fact that he wore nothing but flat sandals under his weathered feet! We walked through some wild, rocky terrain that did some serious wear and tear on my boots!

Creel - Sierra Lodge … This hotel was hotel was located about 5-10 miles outside of Creel, smack in the middle of a Tarahumara community. Within hiking distance from Cascada Cusarare. No electricity, but plenty of Keroseine lighting and hot water. It was 15 degrees farenheit outside but a huge fireplace kept us warm inside! A great experience.

Suppose I ought to look it up, but are they cabins? I’ll assume easy local bus transport between Creel and the lodge?

They're not individual units. One thing to note about this place is that they don't accept credit cards. Make reservations through The 3Amigos & Copper Canyon Conexions in Creel. Call 01 635 456 0179. Website: www.ccconexions.com or www.the3amigoscanyonexpeditions.com. There is local bus transport but it runs once a day. You can arrange for a taxi for shuttle service.
Batopilas ……. The ride down to Batopilas was more excting than the train ride. If you're one to get motion sickness easily, be sure to take your meds. This trip is not for the faint of heart.

Where did you arrange the ride, or did you do that when you booked the hotel? We took public transportation at 1700 pesos each for roundtrip. The trip takes about 5 1/2 - 6 hours. Tickets can be purchased the day before inside a store (sorry, don't recall name) directly across the street from the 3Amigos office at Avenida Lopez Mateos #6. A shuttle can be arranged for $300 USD per shuttle, roundtrip. Or you can be really brave and rent a truck. A shuttle and/or private vehicle (4-wheel drive!) will save you some time as the public transport makes several stops.

Ed and Fran

Jan 18, 2006, 11:00 AM

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Re: [Tio Toño] Copper Canyon

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Thanks for the very thorough responses.

Now I just have to make this trip happen for us.

Regards

Ed & Fran