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shoe

Dec 29, 2005, 7:46 AM

Post #1 of 38 (4722 views)

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The Oven

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My girlfriend and her family do not have any idea what a oven is for. They think it is a storage area I guess as they NEVER us it for anything. Everything is made on the top or the stove. I bake things and they think it is magic and all want to see what and how I do it. I have made cupcakes, various muffins ( they think these are desert and wonder why I eat them with my meal), brownies and cakes. I bake potatoes and parts of lots of meals in the oven and they think it is something they wished they could do. My girlfriend says she is embarrassed because she can't do this stuff as she thinks she is a pretty good cook and she really is.

Is this the norm with lots of Mexicans?

shoe

Nothing is intrinsically good or evil, but its manner of usage may make it so.
-St. Thomas Aquinas

Cynthia7

Dec 29, 2005, 8:51 AM

Post #2 of 38 (4718 views)

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Re: [shoe] The Oven

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Many Mexicans cook everything in a pan on the top of the stove. There are stoves that look like they have an oven but it is storage. Even ovens have something that looks like a thermostat but it is only off and on. They eat beans, rice, tortillas..why have an oven?. There is a classic joke about a man who jumps out of a plane and his parachute doesn't open. On the way down he sees a Mexican rising up from the ground. The man asks if he knows about parachutes and the Mexican man says no ..but do you know anything about gas ovens. We often forget this is still a third world country..people can't read or write, have no running water,no refrigerator, wash on a rock in an irrigation ditch ..etc. So the fact that someone can't cook in an oven is not very unusual.

Rolly

Dec 29, 2005, 9:23 AM

Post #3 of 38 (4713 views)

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Re: [Cynthia7] The Oven

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"We often forget this is still a third world country..people can't read or write, have no running water,no refrigerator, wash on a rock in an irrigation ditch ..etc."

Excuse me while I throw up!

This one gets the stupid remark of the year award!

Rolly Pirate

jennifer rose

Dec 29, 2005, 10:22 AM

Post #4 of 38 (4708 views)

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Re: [shoe] The Oven

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Oven? You mean that heated and lighted cabinet underneath the stove burners?

There is such a proliferation of panaderias selling muffins, cakes, and cookies at reasonable prices that no one *needs* to bake their own in this country.

shoe

Dec 29, 2005, 7:25 PM

Post #5 of 38 (4682 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] The Oven

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JR, while you are correct about the desserts, as they can be bnought but in a land where there is not much money this is odd. Things like casseroles, baked potatoes, broiled meat/fish and the like are unheard of. They are easy, and quick to do but the family slaves over the stove top most of hte day sometimes. When I cook it seldom takes me more then a few minutes to make something. I am not into slaving over the stove for a long time.

Another thing that amazes me is a simple white sauce is also not known. Now with a can of tuna, slices of bread, a little butter, milk, and flour and you have creamed tuna on toast and it is very cheap (substitute scrambled hamburger meat if you like for SOS)! You can feed two people for less than a buck. Yet the people that I have made it for love it but never heard of it. All except my girlfriend's kid who doesn't eat it if is isn't smothered in a hot red salsa (almost everything).

Listen, I am not a cook by any means but can make the bachelor survival type of stuff, also bake from mixes and things like that. The family thinks I am a great cook as I do all this different stuff. That is far from the truth.

shoe

Nothing is intrinsically good or evil, but its manner of usage may make it so.
-St. Thomas Aquinas

Brian

Dec 30, 2005, 8:01 AM

Post #6 of 38 (4664 views)

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Re: [Rolly] The Oven

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Rolly

Mexico is a very large country with poverty still being a defining characteristic. I did not interpret Cynthia's remark to mean that ALL people in this country lead such a humble existence. She has contributed frequently to MexConnect and as a long term resident does not view Mexico with rose-colored lenses. Guanajuato is a very, very poor State and one need venture only a few miles outside San Miguel de Allende, for example, to see the sad evidence of exactly what she described. My wife volunteers for an organization which does outreach into the campo identifying children with medical problems. MOST of the villages she visits have limited, if any, utilities. She and her nurse companion lament the fact that there are so many infections caused by the polluted streams in which their mothers bathe them and wash their clothes. Thank goodness, potable water is delivered so that they don't have to drink from that source. Your experience in living here may be far different but I could not let your message go unanswered.

un saludo cordial
Brian

jennifer rose

Dec 30, 2005, 8:30 AM

Post #7 of 38 (4659 views)

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Re: [shoe] The Oven

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Baked potatoes? Potatoes are relatively expensive in this country, at least compared to rice and pasta.

Broiled fish/meat? Fish is more expensive than most cuts of meat. Broiling requires a more tender cut of meat -- and a more expensive one -- than that which is used for cocido or tacos. Stewed and shredded meat is used more frequently in this country than hamburger. A half kilo of stew meat goes a lot farther, when mixed with beans and vegetables than a half kilo of hamburger will go.

Fortunately, the notion of Minnesota hot dish hasn't hit Mexico, and I hope that it never does. But Mexican cuisine does include a number of dishes which do resemble casseroles: chilaquiles, guisados, pasta with bits of cheese and meat. Do enchiladas really differ that much from King Ranch casserole? Are the ingredients of something stewed up and served inside a tortilla really simply a hand-held casserole? A sopa seca can be prepared in far less time than any casserole.

Slices of bread? In comparison to tortillas or rice, bread costs more and has less nutritive value.

Looking at the economy of time, a housewife or housekeeper can prepared a pot of whatever while she's doing her usual household chores. A pot of whatever steaming on the stove is simply part of the culture.

(This post was edited by jennifer rose on Dec 30, 2005, 8:32 AM)

Bubba

Dec 30, 2005, 1:55 PM

Post #8 of 38 (4632 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] The Oven

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I don't know why Ms Rose brought up subject of the Minnesota Hot Dish but, as I had never heard of such a thing, I had to Google it. Hoo Boy! What a concoction. This recipe I found is a casserole with hamburger meat, onions, rice. celery, canned mushroom soup and soy sauce topped with canned fried onion rings and baked, then served with:

GLORY RICE
Cooked rice mixed with:
Pineapple
Sugar
Vanilla Extract
Maraschino Cherries
Miniature Marshmallows (white or colored)
Whipped Topping
Refrigerate before serving

Lord God Almighty - I am overwhelmed with depressing memories of Thursday night church suppers where every lady brought a really bad dish to go with greasy cold fried chicken and iced tea or mystery punch and I could not wait to get out of that church and that town. And to think I used to hate Chicken a la King. Tell me people don't flee Minnesota as soon as they reach adulthood.

As for her other comments, it seems to me that, as she says, fish is more expensive than the more marginal cuts of meat Mexicans favor for the shredded meat they use for so many things. Most of this meat would be inedible if broiled whole in thick cuts. I also get the feeling that, in general, fish (as opposed to shellfish) is not terribly popular here.

It seems to me that white bread, white rice and machine made tortillas are all of marginal nutritional value as is the typical diet among the poor everywhere - Mexico included. I knew poor kids in the rural south in the 50s who grew up on turnip and other greens and Karo syrup. Right after WWII, all the cats disappeared in Paris. Such is life.

It is not uncommon in a number of cultures for people not to have ovens in their homes. We had Afghani students staying with us back in the 70s who never dreamed of an oven in the house. People would take their dough to the community baker who would bake the bread product for them which they would pick up later. I think this sort of tradition prevails in many countries in Asia. I'll tell you what. Those Aghani students cooked everything on top of the stove and their food was superb. Afghanistani home cooking is some of the most delicious in the world and that is without ovens in the home.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Jan 4, 2006, 8:24 PM)

jennifer rose

Dec 30, 2005, 6:07 PM

Post #9 of 38 (4622 views)

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Re: [Bubba] The Oven (going slightly off-topic)

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Hot dish is near and dear to the hearts of Minnesotans, so we must tread lightly upon the topic. It must contain something from the three major food groups -- something brown, pasta or rice, and cream of something soup. And topped off with canned fried onions, tater tots or crushed potato chips. If you've seen the movie Fargo, you'll notice that, regardless of the ingredients, it's simply referred to as hot dish. Every Minnesotan I've ever met, no matter how sophisticated, no matter how far removed from Minnesota, will get that eyes-glazed-over look of fond remembrance if you happen to mention hot dish, and you dare not denigrate it in their presence. To them, it represents all that is holy and sacred, and I'm not making that up. That said, I'm not from Minnesota and have spent no more than a week total, including layovers at MSP, in the state during my entire lifetime.

The perversions committed upon rice are unmentionable. Equally bad is the dessert sold at what are referred to as delis in small towns throughout that party of the country. Cherry delight was canned cherry pie filling mixed with CoolWhip. But these delis, which sell not a shred of what might commonly be found at a real deli, also kindly offer to slice bleu cheese. And often offer customers a discount on it, "because it's kinda rotten." You ought not contemplate the kind of tortillas sold at some venues in the U.S., bearing a closer resemblance to shoe soles.

Exposure to hot dish, rice masquerading as dessert and odd concoctions such as cherry delight may account for upper Midwesterners' kind and gentle acceptance of military and college dormitory food.

Back to the discussion of tortillas. Add them, whether machine or hand-made, to beans, and at least you do have a protein, inexpensively delivered.

(This post was edited by jennifer rose on Dec 30, 2005, 6:09 PM)

jaybear

Dec 30, 2005, 9:11 PM

Post #10 of 38 (4600 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] The Oven

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My gas stove and I have had an off-again, on-again relationship since we moved into our house 2 months ago, and I have yet to conquer the use of its oven. The dial that regulates the flame does not have any numbers, so I turn the oven on full throttle (after hubby lights it!), let it heat to 400F (I do have an oven thermometer), and try to throttle it back so it stays in the 350-400F range. This is sort of okay for roasts, or warming baguettes, but definitely gives me a good excuse for not making cakes or other confections requiring exact temps. SO FAR, I do not miss baking. Ah, the simple life! And this thread poses the possibility of further simplification, as I have now learned it might be possible to acquire a gas stove with no oven at all! And gain extra storage space! My little heart leaped up!
"Don't believe everything you think" - Maxine

JayBear

jennifer rose

Dec 30, 2005, 9:44 PM

Post #11 of 38 (4595 views)

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Re: [jaybear] The Oven

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Ovenless stove-tops are widely available.

The main reason I bought a Whirlpool stove was because the oven's knob revealed temperatures in both Fahrenheit and Celsius. Oh sure, there were fancier models, particularly the Bosch, but the oven dials only revealed hash marks. Now, I have no idea just how accurate the thermostat may be on my Whirlpool, but having both Fahrenheit and Celsius was all that mattered to me.

jaybear

Dec 31, 2005, 5:46 AM

Post #12 of 38 (4589 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] The Oven

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Aha, Jennifer Rose! So you DO intend to use the oven!

I do suppose I will get around to getting a more practical oven, maybe even a broiler, but right now I am actually having fun with my version of the simple life; that is, cooking (almost) everything on the stovetop. We even pan fry our toast in the morning (homemade from Lucy's Deli in Jocoptepec) (with Land O'Lakes, an investment butter here in Ajijic, but the cost encourages me to only use a little). Life is fine this way.

My next goal is to learn to use the clay barbeque grill we bought, so I can have winter cookouts. There is something very special about grilling outside when it is below zero in the old homeland (Mass.).
"Don't believe everything you think" - Maxine

JayBear

Anonimo

Dec 31, 2005, 1:00 PM

Post #13 of 38 (4562 views)

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Re: [shoe] The Oven

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When we visit Mexican friends and I bake something in the oven, I am regarded as a Miracle Worker, and our hostess (in Cuernavaca) takes me round to the neighbors to brag and show off.
I made an Oat and Sesame whole grain bread this AM and tomorrow AM is Sticky Bun Day. Our hostess, twisting our arms, convinced us to stay a couple of extra days.
It´s a good way to make friends.

Pardon me, I have to go and fix comida.

Saludos,
Anonimo

Bloviator

Dec 31, 2005, 4:51 PM

Post #14 of 38 (4543 views)

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Re: [Cynthia7] The Oven

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My wife refuses to light the oven. I have no hair on my right (stove lighting) arm. I see the problem.

Bloviator

Dec 31, 2005, 4:53 PM

Post #15 of 38 (4541 views)

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Re: [Cynthia7] The Oven

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Agreed. Nor is it odd that as we wandered from Ajijic to Cozumel, we encountered a number of Mexicans who had never heard of Guadalajara, let alone Lake Chapala or Ajijic.

mjeble

Jan 1, 2006, 10:47 AM

Post #16 of 38 (4521 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] The Oven (going slightly off-topic)

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We spent 3 year right in the middle of Minnesota in a small town of 3 thousand, which was also the county seat. In that time I never heard of nor tasted a "hot dish". Another Minnesota fable--land of a thousand lakes. Where we lived, to reach a lake, we had to travel 45 minutes. There are some places without lakes near. But on the other hand, I was very,very,very happy to move to Houston from there. And I might add, that I am very, very, very happy to be in Mexico now.

Myra

Listen to what I mean, not what I say.

Caarina12

Jan 3, 2006, 11:48 AM

Post #17 of 38 (4470 views)

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Re: [shoe] The Oven

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The holiday season is the ONLY time of year that my MIL's Mexican oven is fired up and it's for the Christmas turkey.

My Mexican husband and I have had numerous discussions as to why this is, and I agree with many of the other posters is that quick, stove top cooking was the most economical.

However, there are practical considerations as well. Because many parts of Mexico are relatively warm or very warm year round, who wants to heat up the house unnecessarily by starting the oven?

Judy in Ags

Jan 7, 2006, 1:37 PM

Post #18 of 38 (4437 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] The Oven (going slightly off-topic)

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It's okay, Jennifer, I'm a Minnesotan and I can take it. I cook an occasional tuna casserole for my husband who is a native of Kansas and he loves it. Since you never lived there I think I can safely say your assessment was pretty skewed, but that's okay. My dad had two restaurants when I was growing up there (no "hot dishes") and the food would be hard to beat any where in the world.

Bubba

Jan 7, 2006, 3:00 PM

Post #19 of 38 (4429 views)

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Re: [Judy in Ags] The Oven (going slightly off-topic)

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Judy:

Please share with us the tuna casserole recipe.

Bubba

Judy in Ags

Jan 7, 2006, 5:38 PM

Post #20 of 38 (4413 views)

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Re: [Bubba] The Oven (going slightly off-topic)

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Is this a joke? A setup?

MazDee

Jan 7, 2006, 9:44 PM

Post #21 of 38 (4390 views)

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Re: [Judy in Ags] The Oven (going slightly off-topic)

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I suspect it IS a joke. Ms. Bubba would not appreciate tuna casserole. But this reminds me of a question I have had for a while. Why don't more people post Mexican recipes, instead of all the talk about Best Foods mayo and other stuff we crave down here? For a start, Anomino could post a recipe for his crema de cilantro! Or should this be a new thread? Dee

Anonimo

Jan 8, 2006, 12:15 AM

Post #22 of 38 (4383 views)

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Re: [MazDee] The Oven (going slightly off-topic)

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Quote

For a start, Anomino could post a recipe for his crema de cilantro!

I would be happy to do so, but as are many of my cooking creations, there is no recipe per se. It's really an improvisation, based on certain culinary principles. It works well for me, although the drawback is I'm never quite sure what the yield will be.

Btw, I am very well acquainted with the use of extra-heavy mayo, condensed mushroom soup, and sour cream in recipes. My last employer loved those things.
But very well, I'll start a new thread on soups.

Saludos,
Anonimo

Bubba

Jan 8, 2006, 9:34 AM

Post #23 of 38 (4369 views)

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Re: [Judy in Ags] The Oven (going slightly off-topic)

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Judy:

I am deeply hurt so I am going to share my international recipe for tuna sandwiches.

BUBBA'S TUNA SAMICHES

One can Roland Ventresca de Tuna in Olive Oil - Drained (From Soriana - Caught and Packed in Costa Rica)
Best Foods Mayonnaise ( From Costco - Made in Mexico)
Bimbo White (Reglar) Bread ( From local aborrotes - Made in Mexico)
Zatarain's Creole Mustard (or substitute grainy dijon mustard) - Made in what used to be New Orleans.
Watermelon Rind Pickles (Made in The U.S. and brought from Texas by friends to whom I am indebted)
Accompanied by XX Lager (Made in Mexico)

Bubba is a man of the world

No oven necessary.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Jan 8, 2006, 12:56 PM)

Judy in Ags

Jan 8, 2006, 2:19 PM

Post #24 of 38 (4349 views)

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Re: [Bubba] The Oven (going slightly off-topic)

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Thanks, Bubba,

It all sounds delicious except WHITE BREAD, unless they bolillos, french, or similar.

zoeq1000

Jan 11, 2006, 6:37 PM

Post #25 of 38 (4306 views)

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Re: [Rolly] The Oven

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I object to that comment. Cynthia7 has lived here for many years and participates in countless charities, the ones where you actually go in and work with children, etc. I have gotten tremendously helpful advice from Cynthia and if she says, people do such and such, she's seen it and it happens. I think you owe Cynthia an apology.

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