Mexico Connect
Forums  > General > General Forum
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All


Tom Wheaton


Dec 22, 2005, 10:08 AM

Post #1 of 39 (2945 views)

Shortcut

Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
My wife and are moving back to Mexico in January. We have been gone since 1976, and are looking forward to living in the central highlands, as we used to live in the DF and in a village between Puebla and Cholula.

The recent activities of the border vigilantes, Congress and now President Bush have caused a reaction in Mexico and among Mexicans living in the US, and President Fox and others in Mexico have weighed in. Things appear to have taken a turn for the worse over the past year or so, and I am beginning to wonder if we chose the right time to come back.

I really don't expect that there is an anti-American sentiment on the part of individual Mexican citizens toward individual US citizens (at least not the ones I know in the US and Mexico), but I would like to know from people (US and Canadian) who currently live in Mexico, if they personally see any evidence of anti-Americanism in the bureaucracy, in stores, in the street.

Tom Wheaton
Atlanta (soon to be Mexico si dios quiere)



Bubba

Dec 22, 2005, 12:07 PM

Post #2 of 39 (2921 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Tom Wheaton] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
I read and view both the U.S. and Mexican media and have noted no negative impact as a result of all the U.S. jingoism which, incidentally, is broadcast loudly and obssesively daily by Lou Dobbs on CNN which many Mexican cable companies carry in English. It is downright embarrasing to hear this daily rant but programs such as this are not widely viewed in Mexico (I hope). Local and national Mexican T.V. newsprograms and newspapers have widely noted the furor at the border and what they consider to be the gross hypocrisy of U.S. officials but that has not translated to open hostility against gringos on the street, at least where we live at Lake Chapala.

There is an undercurrent of hostility toward gringos in places with many gringos such as the north shore of Lake Chapala but this hostility rarely manifests itself openly. However, as the gringo community grows and attracts a larger and larger component of boorish and parochial foreigners living in enclaves and becoming more and more visible in the community at large without becoming a real part of it nor even attempting to master the local language, hostility is bound to increase. Many expatriates think they can buy good will by giving money to local charities but that only works superficially.

Another thing that will breed hostility is the paradox that gringo money feeds the economy and makes the community attracting large numbers of expatriates more properous but, concurrently, also significantly drives up the cost of living for locals offsetting that prosperity to some degree. When I speak to locals in Ajijic, they lament the increase in the cost of living here. The influx of large numbers of comparatively wealthy people doesn't simply drive up the cost of housing in the community but also the cost of the basic necessities of life for everyone. This is starkly evident if one compares the cost of basic items at the respective tiaguis in Ajijic and Jocotepec, a nearby town with little expat influence.

In the five years we have been in Ajijic, we have seen enormous changes in the community which are both good and bad. If there is a combination of a rapid increase in the cost of living and a large iflux of foreigners combined with the building of that proposed "Berlin" wall along the border and increased hostility toward both legal and illegal aliens (read "Mexicans") in the U.S., how can anyone doubt tensions between the communities will rise.

Now, if it were me, I wouldn't build that wall. I also would find some place other than Ajijic to move to today - say a place with less impact from the foreign community. There are lots of places like that but I have myself a nice home here and I ain't leaving.

We shall see what happens.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Dec 22, 2005, 12:14 PM)


Don


Dec 22, 2005, 12:34 PM

Post #3 of 39 (2909 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bubba] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
"Now, if it were me, I wouldn't build that wall."

I also believe the wall should not be built. But, they are NOT thinking clearly. After they remove all the illegals from the U.S., who will be there to build the wall???


(This post was edited by Don on Dec 22, 2005, 12:37 PM)


TlxcalaClaudia

Dec 22, 2005, 1:04 PM

Post #4 of 39 (2896 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Tom Wheaton] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
I envy you. I don't leave until July 2006. Are you or your wife Mexican citizens from there? My first thoughts are you will be ok. Even if you had a haughty attitude I don't get vibes that many would care. PErsonally I wish we would send all Mexicans SOB just so the Northerners would feel their absence and want them back with more appreciation. Seems in Mexico some know they aren't wanted, but then know that they are. Get my point? My family talks about the racism, but not the media's hatred for Mexicans so I think they know some don't want them but somebody MUST want them if the business can get away with hiring them.
Claudine


(This post was edited by TlxcalaClaudia on Dec 22, 2005, 1:40 PM)


Jerry@Ajijic

Dec 22, 2005, 1:36 PM

Post #5 of 39 (2881 views)

Shortcut

Re: [TlxcalaClaudia] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
I am not really sure why having gringos here has driven up the cost of living other than in housing. The phone and electricity rates should not have been effected. Most of the gringos do not shop in the tiaguis as much as they do in Super Lake & El Torito. Even so rises in the cost of living are supposed to be caused by shortages (and there are no shortages) or "by charging all that the traffic wil bear". In which case it is primiarly the locals who are selling things and setting the higher prices. Anyway according to the GDL Reporter (which has gone up from 6 pesos when we got here to 12 pesos) the inflation rate is less than 4%.


Tom Wheaton


Dec 22, 2005, 1:56 PM

Post #6 of 39 (2873 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bubba] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
No offense intended, but we have no desire to live in a gated enclave in Ajijic or SMA or elsewhere. We love Mexico, its history, its archaeology, its people and its languages too much. Our second daughter was born in Mexico, but we foolishly did not maintain her citizenship so we cannot pretend to be Mexican (which with my blue eyes would be a little difficult anyway). Glad to hear that things are about what I expected, and that Lou Dobbs is not real popular. I can't wait to get going.
Tom Wheaton
Soon in Mexico


Ed and Fran

Dec 22, 2005, 5:09 PM

Post #7 of 39 (2840 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Tom Wheaton] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
Tom: "I would like to know from people (US and Canadian) who currently live in Mexico, if they personally see any evidence of anti-Americanism in the bureaucracy, in stores, in the street. "

I don't see anything of the kind down here in Tuxpan. But we're so far off the beaten track that what I see or don't see is probably not a trusty barometer.



"...we used to live in ..... a village between Puebla and Cholula."

Hmmm, been back recently? I'm not sure there's anything between Puebla and Cholula these days. They seem to have expanded outwards until they touch.


Regards

Ed & Fran


wendy devlin

Dec 22, 2005, 8:44 PM

Post #8 of 39 (2802 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bubba] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
But, won't the wall allow workers to go North, and stop workers from returning back South?


mrchuck


Dec 23, 2005, 6:21 AM

Post #9 of 39 (2769 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bubba] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
 I expect "the wall" will be built.
The "harmony" in the border towns and cities along of both sides of the border, has been turning sour for some time now, due to the overload of the illegals coming into the USA.
This has overloaded all of the cities, schools, social programs, and causing huge deficits in their budgets.
These USA counties all along the border, say they just can't cope with these costs anymore. And no extra monies are coming from the US Govt. to assist.
This is the "social" dilemma causing all of the grief we hear about.

I will be traveling to the Texas Rio Grande Valley area soon, and this will be a foremost condition I will be experiencing if it is true or not.
I will post a report on what I see and hear when I get back.

Think about this ::: If the wall is built, and the monies presently being sent back to their homes in Mexico, by the ten's of millions of working Mexicans in the USA, who are illegally there,,,all dry up, then what happens to the existing Mexican Government who depend highly on these funds to run the Mexican Government on??
Also, the tourist dollars flowing into Mexico has been severely curtailed due to the Cancun hurricane damage.
And all this bad news on top of the upcoming Presidential election to be held in August 2006.
All these above ingredients, make for an explosive ,dangerous recipe.
Wow!

Saludos,,,,mc


Ed and Fran

Dec 23, 2005, 7:28 AM

Post #10 of 39 (2749 views)

Shortcut

Re: [mrchuck] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
If the wall is built, and the monies presently being sent back to their homes in Mexico, by the ten's of millions of working Mexicans in the USA, who are illegally there,,,all dry up, then what happens to the existing Mexican Government who depend highly on these funds to run the Mexican Government on??



Help me understand how the money that is sent back winds up as a significant source of income to the government. This isn't going to show up on any income statement and won't be subject to ISR. I do recognize that a portion gets spent on goods subject to IVA and that they collect some that way.

I agree that it's major source of income for the country (i.e. the people) but I'm not so sure it's a major source of income for the government.

But then again, finance never was my strong subject.

Regards

Ed


mrchuck


Dec 23, 2005, 8:06 AM

Post #11 of 39 (2736 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Ed and Fran] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
The Mexican economy is a 3 legged stool. The Mexican Govt politicians control their own economy.
1st leg are the billions sent home, from working in the USA.
2nd leg are the receipts from Pemex sales.
3rd leg are the receipts from tourism.

A large, full pan of water(mexican economy),rests upon the top of this stool, also equally represents the Government of Mexico.

Any weak leg, or shortness of one leg, will cause a spillage. 2 legs short,,,,watch out.

As reported many times on this forum, the 3 largest sources of income for the Republic of Mexico, comes from the 3 above sources.

Sure, there are other sources of income to the Govt. like from manufacturing, maquiladoras,etc.,,but the above 3 sources, that hold the "stool" up are the largest.

I expect the money being sent back to the homes in Mexico, gets spent on the things needed in the daily lives of these fortunate receivers, (mothers, fathers, relatives). That would be the main reason the Mexicans went North to the USA, and that is to work, earn a lot more money than they could at home, and send back to their true Mexican home, all the money he/she can, so to keep his/her family alive and going.
This is what my Mexican neighbor's here, tell me. This is what I see.
They would never have left in the first place, IF they could have earn enough money here in Mexico, in their own country, to live and exist on.
Also, many Mexicans also save a lot of their wages, and really plan on returning back home and using these savings to build a house in their hometown with.

I am not an economist. But I do see, hear, and read about the current conditions of my beloved Mexico, where I live, and am a part of.

Saludos,,,,mc


(This post was edited by mrchuck on Dec 23, 2005, 8:08 AM)


EEK

Dec 23, 2005, 9:26 AM

Post #12 of 39 (2710 views)

Shortcut

Re: [mrchuck] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
Mrchuck -- this is a pretty accurate report. I'm sure there are many other factors, but for the meanwhile I rent. If conditions change, I will be ever thankful for the time spent in Mexico -- then I will pack my suitcase, board a plane, fly to the US and tell people how nice it was. eek!


jerezano

Dec 23, 2005, 10:49 AM

Post #13 of 39 (2687 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Tom Wheaton] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
Hello,

You wrote quote: >>>> Our second daughter was born in Mexico, but we foolishly did not maintain her citizenship

Don't worry about it. If she has a Mexican Birth Certificate, or even the Consulate certificate showing that she was born in Mexico, she is considered a Mexican Citizen by Mexico. No maintenance required.

Adios. jerezano


song_of_joy

Dec 23, 2005, 9:06 PM

Post #14 of 39 (2603 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jerezano] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
The paperwork for acquiring her dual citizenship is done, I believe, down here in Relaciones Exteriores.


julian3345

Dec 25, 2005, 8:26 AM

Post #15 of 39 (2525 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Don] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
Not only who ? will build the wall, but demographic studies show clearly that the "native" population of the US is aging and shrinking, that is, not replacing itself...so who will pay into Social Security for the soon to retire baby boomers? Population stability in the US is maintained by immigration, legal or not, these days. IMHO, the reactionary fence building isolationists are not thinking about unintended consequences of further border militarization and criminalization of undocumented immigration. US immigration laws are a patchwork of outdated and politically motivated restrictions and have little to do with rational global economic policy. It is the US Congress that should be taken to the woodshed for not doing the real work of immigration reform. Joan


1ajijic


Dec 25, 2005, 9:10 AM

Post #16 of 39 (2514 views)

Shortcut

Re: [julian3345] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
Being nonpolitical, the wall is a cornerstone of the politics of fear. There has to be a deliniation of the us, and the them to be guarded against.
http://www.newbeginningsmexico.com


jacpowell

Dec 25, 2005, 2:23 PM

Post #17 of 39 (2469 views)

Shortcut

Re: [1ajijic] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
Here's a new twist - The governor of the State of Colorado is suggesting that the way to take care of free but legal movement back and forth between the US and Mexico is privately-run employment agencies located in Mexico. These would be funded by US corporations that need workers, and the workers would only be allowed in if they had a job. There would be "Smart Cards" for the folks to use, and they would not be allowed to pay into (and therefore draw from) Social Security. There would be health insurance available, however, to keep them out of the emergency rooms as indigents. Mr. Owens's biggest problem with this concept is trying to figure out what to do with the folks who are already here -- he doesn't want an amnesty program. My biggest question is how would this system stay effective and honest? It's just another bureaucracy, and I can't imagine that the US employers could resist somehow paying for the system through the workers' paychecks.

Remember, Colorado is the home of Tom Tancredo, one of the most xenophobic people I've ever known of. And, to use an old stereotypical statement, his name ends in a vowel, so surely HE didn't come over on the Mayflower...or across Bering Strait. He is making noises about running for president. His "good buddy" is Marilyn Musgrave, who is quite homophobic and anti-choice.

The US and Mexico can't live with and can't live without each other's folks. We can only eventually hope for some sort of blending on both sides of the border.


julian3345

Dec 25, 2005, 9:48 PM

Post #18 of 39 (2415 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jacpowell] Mex US Relations and Living in Mexico

Can't Post | Private Reply
Tancredo is the grandson of Italian immigrants. Joan


NEOhio1


Dec 25, 2005, 11:56 PM

Post #19 of 39 (2405 views)

Shortcut

Imigration Judges, Dept of Labor & Homeland

Can't Post | Private Reply
There are some things happening in the federal government that aren't particularly publically discussed. It appears that there is a ramping up of employing specific skills to address the immigration situation. These are very good jobs, very good.

The Dept of Homeland Security is actively hiring mid-level attorneys for postings in all establish location control points along the border and for 15 new points inland. They have an open list of 140 positions to fill within the next two years..

The US Dept of Agriculture is recruting from the state depts of agriculture for investigators, primarily those with food stamp fraud backgrounds to come to positions throughout the US as investigators of agricultural companies to review legitimacy of workers. These people are accountants with street smarts.Since most ag departments have seen there state fod stampprograms go to te use of timed debit cards instead of negotiable paper "money" They are looking to apply their skills in the direction of auditing companies employee records and tracking down mis-information.

My husband as an administrative law judge has been recruited for the following position to have begun in May or September. Although he opted out at this time, they left the door open since the program is expanding at the end of this hiring phase of 3-4 years into 15 additional cities not presently being staffed - to more inland centers than there are at present. Here is the recently posted description:


IMMIGRATION JUDGE
EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW
VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-05-0130

ABOUT THE OFFICE: The Executive Office for Immigration Review, United States
Department of Justice, is seeking applications for Immigration Judge positions
which are currently available and may become available in the future.

TITLE, SERIES, GRADE: Immigration Judge IJ Level I-IV

SALARY RANGE: $109,720 - $149,200

PROMOTION POTENTIAL: Immigration Judge Level IV

VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-05-0130

AREA OF CONSIDERATION: All Sources (Federal and Non-Federal).

OPENING DATE: September 9, 2005.

CLOSING DATE: September 9, 2007.

IMMIGRATION COURT LOCATIONS:
Immigration Courts are located in the following areas: Arlington, Virginia;
Atlanta, Georgia; Baltimore, Maryland; Bloomington, Minnesota; Boston,
Massachusetts; Bradenton, Florida; Buffalo, New York; Chicago, Illinois; Dallas,
Texas; Denver, Colorado; Detroit, Michigan; El Centro/East Mesa, California;
Elizabeth, New Jersey; Eloy, Arizona; El Paso, Texas; Florence, Arizona;
Guaynabo, Puerto Rico; Harlingen, Texas; Hartford, Connecticut; Honolulu, Hawaii;
Houston, Texas; Imperial, California; Lancaster, California; Las Vegas, Nevada;
Los Angeles, California; Memphis, Tennessee; Miami, Florida; New Orleans,
Louisiana; New York, New York; Napanoch, New York; Fishkill, New York; Newark,
New Jersey; Oakdale, Louisiana; Orlando, Florida; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania;
Phoenix, Arizona; Portland, Oregon; Salt Lake City, Utah; San Antonio, Texas; San
Diego, California; San Francisco, California; San Pedro, California; Seattle,
Washington; Tucson, Arizona; and Falls Church, Virginia.

NUMBER OF VACANCIES: 8 (At the present time)

DUTIES:
The Immigration Judge presides in formal, quasi-judicial hearings. Proceedings
before Immigration Judges include but are not limited to deportation, exclusion,
removal, rescission, and bond. The Immigration Judge makes decisions, which are
final unless formally appealed, in connection with these proceedings, exercises
certain discretionary powers as provided by law, and is required to exercise
independent judgment in reaching final decisions. Immigration Judges may be
required to conduct hearings in penal institutions and other remote locations.
Immigration Judges may be required to travel frequently, usually by air,
including on weekends.

Applications must contain a prioritized list of geographical preferences taken
from the list of immigration court locations. No more than five locations may be
selected. Any material changes in an applicant’s experience or qualifications
(i.e., promotion, new employment) may be forwarded in writing directly to OCIJ,
Attn: Marcia Cato, 5107 Leesburg Pike, Ste. 2500, Falls Church, VA 22041, until
further notice and may be considered at the discretion of OCIJ. Telephonic or
facsimile inquiries or updates will not be accepted. All applications received
will be retained until further notice.


It seems fairly apparent that movement is being made toward a program of identifying both non-compliant businesses and individuals immigrants. Ramping up like this can't be considered as going against any congressional action or civil will because it can be eploained as departmental personnel expansion as a reaction to the need for better oversight in more places.

Just food for thought. Here in Cleveland we don't see the Mexican laborer - they aren't doing lawn services, nor are they in factories, not on any building sites, restaurants maybe, but I have only heard of one. So it must be well hidden. I think there will eventually be an amnesty program, a visiting worker program which originates in Mexico - and unfortunately a wall.

The Mexican election will be a major factor. JMHO


(This post was edited by NEOhio1 on Dec 25, 2005, 11:59 PM)


julian3345

Dec 26, 2005, 7:36 AM

Post #20 of 39 (2368 views)

Shortcut

Re: [NEOhio1] Imigration Judges, Dept of Labor & Homeland

Can't Post | Private Reply
Very interesting information...I favor the Kennedy-McCain bill approach to this gnarly, but very important immigration showdown which seems to loom. The enforcement professionals that you mention being placed or solicited would be necessary to make it work...especially in the area of employer compliance. Vis á vis your comment about the importance of the Mexican elections...do you think that the US gov't is looking for a continued opening up of the democratic process in Mexico or what??? Joan


jacpowell

Dec 26, 2005, 8:48 AM

Post #21 of 39 (2347 views)

Shortcut

Re: [julian3345] Imigration Judges, Dept of Labor & Homeland

Can't Post | Private Reply

In Reply To
Do you think that the US gov't is looking for a continued opening up of the democratic process in Mexico or what???

I don't know what happened to what I wrote under this quote, but it was to the effect that the US needs to keep its own counsel and not interfere with any political or electoral processes in Mexico. We have a bad enough reputation in this realm, especially now, and Mexico certainly has our opinions in mind due to our enormous presence both economically and geographically. It's too bad the government is diverting its efforts to enforcement activities rather than helping folks here gain legitimate status and live decently and without fear. Working from the other side of the border sounds better than this mousetrap mentality.


(This post was edited by jacpowell on Dec 26, 2005, 8:55 AM)


julian3345

Dec 26, 2005, 1:30 PM

Post #22 of 39 (2301 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jacpowell] Imigration Judges, Dept of Labor & Homeland

Can't Post | Private Reply
You got that right! The contrast of US-Mexico relations with the actions and agreements made by other European countries concerning a relatively poor and backward Spain as it emerged from the Franco years is very instructive. Even into the early 80's a large number of casual laborers and concierges in Paris were Spanish or Portuguese, but now Spain has a very progressive economy and very few economic emigrants. Basically the richer European countries provided a good deal of infrastructure support (education, transportation, etc) to Spain, but to get that support, the squabbling and corrupt elements of the Spanish body politic had to sign an agreement to get along for the good of the country...see Treaty of Moncloa, etc. Joan


jerezano

Dec 26, 2005, 5:47 PM

Post #23 of 39 (2245 views)

Shortcut

Re: [julian3345] Imigration Judges, Dept of Labor & Homeland

Can't Post | Private Reply
Hello all,

Julian3345's comments are interesting. But she may just be wrong about Spain not having an economic immigrant problem. Maybe that was so in the past, but a few days watching the Spanish Television channel will show that the problem the USA is having along the Mexican border in no way appears as serious as the Spanish are finding along their Morrocan border. And that wall the Spanish have erected makes our own wall along the frontier look like a piece of cake. To that add the ghettos, the impact on schools and hospitals, the discrimination existing in the labor market, and then take a quick side trip to the recent riots in France.....need I say more.

This illegal, economic immigration problem is not confined to the USA only.

About a month ago the Spanish TV was reporting very seriously a suit against the Spanish Nation by a would-be illegal immigrant who was injured trying to climb over that Spanish-Morrocan wall. Just about as outrageous as some of our own ridiculous civil suits here in the USA.

Not to say that our own problem isn't serious. Having lived in Texas for many years I know how the local economy is impacted. I ate lunch in Denny's today in Harlingen, Texas. The two cooks, the five waitresses, the one janitor that I saw were all of Latin American descent. In the best of all possible worlds, all of them were third or fourth generation citizens of the USA. Don't bet on it.

adios. jerezano.


julian3345

Dec 27, 2005, 7:51 AM

Post #24 of 39 (2169 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jerezano] Imigration Judges, Dept of Labor & Homeland

Can't Post | Private Reply
I hope I used the word emigrant properly. What I meant is that very few Spaniards nowadays must leave their country to find work that will support families left behind. And yes, Spain, Italy, France, Germany, etc all have immigration problems with the large influx of economic refugees from Africa, the formerly Soviet Eastern European bloc, the Middle East, etc. What makes the US-Mexico situation different is the shared border and history. Joan


gpk

Dec 27, 2005, 8:33 AM

Post #25 of 39 (2153 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jerezano] Imigration Judges, Dept of Labor & Homeland

Can't Post | Private Reply
As long as there are rich and poor countries in close proximity there will be "illegal" immigrants seeking jobs--everywhere in the world. Why can't any world leader take the long and just view and try to accomodate the realities of this situation? If organizations like the World Bank can FORCE third world countries to permit foreign investors, why can't first world countries be forced to accept some outside workers--especially if the jobs are otherwise likely to go unfilled. The workers in the restaurant were probably not taking jobs away from willing workers who are citizens of the US. Also, statisitics show that the illegal immigrants have a positive net impact on the US economy by many billions of dollars--after any education and health care costs are subtracted. Unfortunately, the positive impact is national and much of the negative impact is local--so the feds should redistribute the money, but again, no leader will look at this realistically.
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 
Search for (advanced search) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.4