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Oct 20, 2005, 3:42 PM

Post #1 of 31 (5301 views)



Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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I am amazed that when I searched the posts today (1/20/05) there was one casual mention of the bird flu issue facing Mexico and the rest of the World. First let me tell you, I'm not "Chicken Little" running around saying "The sky is falling." I am someone who has some slight concern for my current and probably lifetime community here in Mexico.

I really thought about if I should make this post least I give "He who shall remain nameless" more fodder to make fun with his own "sense of humor" of the post, but I'll do it anyway.

I have been doing research for a full week on the bird flu issue with thoughts about how it will impact the expat communities in Mexico (and the Mexicans). My research has not been Readers Digest or health blogs, I have garnered information from the CDC site, articles in JAMA, Lancet, New England Journal of Medicine and Mayo Clinic (subscription) newsletter to name a few. Bottom lines: Bird flu will be here.

I'm not going to repeat article content here. If you care about your life, you can/should do your own research. I will highlight some important issues.

1. When bird flu (Strain N5H1) mutates sifficiently to be easily transmited between humans, based on current statistics, more than 50% of those infected will die.

2. Humans have NO natural defense as of today against N5H1. Remember how when the "West was won" by the Army. One thing it did was intorduce smallpox to the Indians, and since the Indians had no immunity to it (they never had it before), tens of thousands died off. The original germ warfare, courtesy of the U.S. Government.

3. N5H1 will be a pandemic meaning it will circle the World, possibly more than one time as the virus mutates again and again..

4. Currently, there is only one drug which *may* be effective against H5N1 and it is in very short supply and
World governments are trying to stockpile it and get more produced, but it is costly (US$75 for the needed 10 pills) and even at that price, not anywhere near enough to go around.

5. Hospitals and E.R.s will be overrun. Family doctors will not be able to determine if you have N5H1 or another garden-variety strain of flu until symptoms show and then it takes specific tests (think the HMO wil pay for that?) to determine if you have N5H1.

6. Once symptoms have minifested, you have been contagious for 2-3 days and will continue to be so for another 5-7 days.

7. Today a Mexican doctor told me when I asked about the medication, "There is none here." He most likely meant Lakeside but don't think you can drive to Guad and get it. It's expensive and most pharmacies don't stock expensive drugs. Plus of course many people want it and right now the "need" outstrips the supply by about a factor of 100 to 1.

Take all of the above and remember you are in Mexico.

What can you do to protect yourself? First, don't blindly believe what I have written here, go to the sites and read for yourself. In health care, you must be your own best advocate when its needed.

If you choose to order the meds online (you can not get them shipped to Mexico) and have them brought here, check out the online pharmacy. I found one and checked with the regulatory board in the state in which it is incorporated. It has been in good standing since 1998 with no complaints.

If you order the meds online and want to try to make sure you're not getting a knock-off (sugar pill or such) check with the maker by email giving the lot number on the box and say where you received it from. Ask if that lot was shipped to your supplier.

This is not a joke. This is not a virus which will erase "Sector Zero" on your hard drive, it can erase your life in as little as 10 days. This is not just your life but possibly the lives of your friends and neighbors.

"The single biggest threat to man's
continued dominance on the planet
is the virus."

Joseph Lederberg, PHd, Nobel Laureate

And if you don't believe it, trek over to the LCS Video Library and rent "Outbreak" and watch it carefully. Shades of things to come.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

(This post was edited by talosian on Oct 20, 2005, 5:03 PM)

Miguel Palomares

Oct 20, 2005, 4:28 PM

Post #2 of 31 (5267 views)



Re: [talosian] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

Thanks for the info. The upside is that few of us here can die young.
From Tzurumutaro, Michoacan, "The Village of the Darned."

The nuts and bolts of moving to Mexico:
The dark side of living in Mexico:
Scintillating life in a Mexican pueblo:


Oct 20, 2005, 5:45 PM

Post #3 of 31 (5242 views)



A helpful link (bird flu)

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New England Journal of Medicine, May 5, 2005 issue (over 5 months old).
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.


Oct 20, 2005, 7:54 PM

Post #4 of 31 (5200 views)



Re: [talosian] A helpful link (bird flu)

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We have been told that getting a regular flu shot MIGHT be of some help in that if you have the flu them your weakened body would be more likely to contract bird flu (or any other disease).


Oct 21, 2005, 5:27 AM

Post #5 of 31 (5162 views)



Re: [talosian] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

Remember back, oh maybe twenty-five, thirty years ago, and there was this world wide panic about something called the swine flu? A rush to get vaccine available, much publicity, and to what end? Personally, I'm more concerned about the dog flu, as I don't have many birds for friends.


Oct 21, 2005, 5:46 AM

Post #6 of 31 (5158 views)



Re: [Chumley] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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Do you have any human friends? The issue is not avians with the virus, it's when it mutates to humans and goes airborn. Invest half-hour and follow some info. links then come back and say you're not concerned.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.


Oct 21, 2005, 6:39 AM

Post #7 of 31 (5147 views)



Re: [talosian] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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So the sky really is falling?


Oct 21, 2005, 6:58 AM

Post #8 of 31 (5142 views)



Re: [caldwelld] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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I wouldn't worry too much about the bird flu. I am told on good authority that Y2K will break down all social order as of 2001 and will cost a gazillion dollars so what's to live for anyway.


Oct 21, 2005, 7:49 AM

Post #9 of 31 (5122 views)



Re: [Bubba] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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An appropriate reminder/rejoiner, Bubba. The Media seems to relish promoting "Henny-Penny" scenarios these days...they seem to be elevating them to the same status that they do with murder & mayhem stories in order to sell papers/gain viewers.

But there does seem to be legitimate reason to err on the side of caution as regards flu scares, especially this one that we are ill-prepared to deal with. Virus's ability to mutate and progress through the chain of living creatures, ultimately threatening humans, warrants concern and preventative effort when possible & practical. What would be interesting to know is if the rate of mutation is increasing, or is historically constant and we are just better at detecting and tracking it these days. Whatever, for those of us who are fossilising but want to stick around a little longer, getting a flu shot may not be a bad idea.............Dutch


Oct 21, 2005, 7:50 AM

Post #10 of 31 (5122 views)



Re: [Bubba] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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Right on, Oh great Nameless One. Nobody gets out of life alive anyway, so why go nuts worrying about things that we peons can't do a thing about? Let's save our energy for real concerns, such as why we can't get Medicare coverage outside the US? Now there's a cause worth lobbying for. Some 40,000,000 Americans have no medical insurance & medical related financial problems have now become a major cause of personal bankruptcy. I'm sure those citizens are more worried about that than the remote possibility of catching Avian Flu.
"The trouble with life is there's no background music."

(This post was edited by gbatrucks on Oct 21, 2005, 7:51 AM)


Oct 21, 2005, 9:02 AM

Post #11 of 31 (5103 views)



Re: [gbatrucks] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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They had us all panicing over the West Nile Virus the last three years. It cost me $44. a horse to get them the extra vaccination..ooh yeah the two babies had to have a series of three so 14 at $44 and two at $66 the first year and then "just" $22 a horse the next year...except for babies of course...$66 again. A nice chunk of change....and I gave the shots myself! This year I decided that it was mostly a drug company rip off and didn't give the vaccine. The vet came yesterday for regular vet stuff and I asked him how many equine cases of West Nile had there been this year. The answer was two...and they both recovered completely.


Oct 21, 2005, 9:27 AM

Post #12 of 31 (5091 views)



Re: [gbatrucks] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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No one is more distrusting of "the system" and with Governments, including that of Mexico, I believe little of what I read and/or am told by "the establishment" and not even everything I see with my own eyes (anyone remember G. David Schein?).

So I didn't suggest you read newspaper articles exclusively, my suggestion was to go to what may considered reasonably reliable authorities (CDC, JAMA, Lancet, NEJM, etc.). Most (but not all) doctors are not political and have no reason to skew the facts.

I started this thread simply to suggest that it is s subject worth looking into, especially considering we are in Mexico and I believe if and/or when there is an emergency, we are going to be about as much on our own as those people in N.O. and probably moreso. I doubt Mexico has a FEMA for it's people, much less gringos.

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Germany’s great poet, novelist, philosopher, playwright, and scientist, wrote: “Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine tätige Unwissenheit.” (“There is nothing more terrible than ignorance in action.”)

"Ignorance" means the condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed, it is not to be equated with "stupid" (which means tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes) though the two are not mutually exclusive. Personally, I feel it is stupid not to become educated on this very important current issue.

So as far as I'm concerned, I have done my "duty" as a citizen of the community in bringing the subject up. What anyone chooses to do with it is up to that individual.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.


Oct 21, 2005, 10:39 AM

Post #13 of 31 (5072 views)



Re: [gbatrucks] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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So far, I have confined my so-called "contributions" to this board to asking questions and saying "thank you" but I am really compelled to join in on this one. I'll probably be flogged for this, but has it occurred to anyone that this is a good time for a spectacular diversion? Cheney and Rove about to be indicted...Tom DeLay being arrested and fingerprinted...Harriet taking it in the shorts from all sides...war casualties in Iraq climbing...Condoleeza being dressed down by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee...confidence in Bush at an all-time low. So he goes on TV to talk about what? Bird flu?

Talosian, you should be commended for your conscientious research into this topic and your willingness to help your friends. But like many others on this board, I also remember swine flu - I was working for a public health agency at the time and NONE of the people I worked with got the vaccine themselves (except me - I was young and naive). I hope those of us who are skeptics are not wrong about this, but if we are, like Palomares says, at least we won't compound the tragedy by dying young. Karen


Oct 21, 2005, 10:52 AM

Post #14 of 31 (5066 views)



Re: [kwschopf] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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We're not supposed to talk politics here. But, I have to admit the politics of fear has become the predominate theme in the US and that affects all of us. Personally, my husband would rather have root canal than step foot in the US. We know folks who are taking all kinds of flight diversions rather than pass through the US. I wonder if the powers that be realize all the money it is loosing the US? And do they care as long as it gets their feet out of the fire?


Oct 21, 2005, 11:14 AM

Post #15 of 31 (5059 views)



Re: [1ajijic] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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Yes, I know that political discussions are discouraged on this board. But I have also noticed that this prohibition is not always followed. I expect the thread will be locked as a consequence and I do apologize. My comments are intended only as an husband feels the same way (as do I) and that is the primary reason we will be joining all of you in Mexico in just a few months.


Oct 21, 2005, 12:33 PM

Post #16 of 31 (5033 views)



Re: [mkdutch] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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Here is an ineteresting article on fear mongering: "Fear is fast becoming a caricature of itself. It is no longer simply an emotion or a response to the perception of threat. It has become a cultural idiom through which we signal a sense of unease about our place in the world."


Oct 22, 2005, 2:45 AM

Post #17 of 31 (4972 views)



Re: [caldwelld] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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I too, therefore, would crave some measure of forbearance if the following investigations, in trying to bring the subject of inquiry closer to the understanding, were to transport it beyond reach of the senses. What was asserted above of moral experience, must hold even more of the phenomenon we call Beauty. For its whole magic resides in its mystery, and in dissolving the essential amalgam of its elements we find we have dissolved its very Being.
Fredrick von Schller


"The trouble with life is there's no background music."


Oct 22, 2005, 8:44 AM

Post #18 of 31 (4935 views)



Re: [gbatrucks] Bird Flu Lakeside - some observations

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I've been following this story myself, and am mildly concerned. In order to quell my concerns, I've developed my own personal "action plan." But, here are my observations:

According to one medical source I read, they really don't know what kind of mortality with accompany this epidemic when and if the flu mutates to human to human transmission. It may have a better survival rate - or worse.

The avian variety is spread by migrating birds. Lake Chapala is on a bird migration path and is a popular stopping over point for many migrating birds.

There are a lot of chickens in many backyards here, including mine. The avian variety apparently spreads easily from the migrating birds to domestic poultry.

So: if and/or when the avian variety reaches here, I will get rid of the chickens until the flu has burned itself out.

And: if and/or when it mutates to human to human transmission I will avoid unnecessary group activities, including travel, wash my hands diligently, and keep to home for awhile. Large group events, airline flights, travel groups, etc. as well as church and school are excellent breeding grounds for any infectious disease. I will not stock medicines that I may not need when there may be a more urgent need for them somewhere else. But I will practice good health habits.

Because I am retired this is a luxury I can afford: staying home and out of crowds. Actually, most of us on this board are pretty lucky that way.

In the meantime, carpe diem.

Gary Anderson

Oct 22, 2005, 11:49 AM

Post #19 of 31 (4917 views)



Re: [1ajijic] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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Hi, Chris -

My favorite novel of all time is "Catch-22" by Joseph Heller. Every few years, I dig it out of the bookcase and read it again, because I always get something new from it, including the last time I re-read it here in Ajijic (required content). The posts by you and kwschopf re fear-mongering by USA politicians and the inherent moral poverty of those who partake in it, reminded me of a passage from that book that I thought you might enjoy:

"The Chaplain had sinned, and it was good. Common sense told him that teling lies and defecting from duty were sins. On the other hand, everyone knew that sin was evil and that no good could come from evil. But he did feel good; he felt positively marvelous. Consequently, it followed logically that telling lies and defecting from duty could not be sins. The Chaplain had mastered, in a moment of divine intuition, the handy technique of protective rationalization, and he was exhilarated by his discovery. It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinance, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character."

Every day on CNN or Fox News or whatever we see people who fit perfectly into that mindset. Most of them are regarded as being among The Leaders Of The Free World.

"There was only one catch and that was Catch-22 . . . ." - Joseph Heller

(This post was edited by Gary Anderson on Oct 22, 2005, 11:53 AM)


Oct 22, 2005, 2:26 PM

Post #20 of 31 (4885 views)



Re: [Gary Anderson] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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Looks like the panic has arrived in Mexico. This morning my friend Doña Martha informed me that we could no longer eat pollo; it would make us sick. I tried to explain the facts to her in my meager Spanish. She seemed to understand, but I doubt that I have heard the last of it.


My father was a country doctor. He used to say that he couldn't practice medicine without reading the Readers Digest -- how else would he be forewarned of the disease of the month? Now TV brings us many diseases of the month along with ads for prescription medicines. I wonder how doctors manage today.

Give now, help stamp out TV.

Rolly Pirate

wendy devlin

Oct 22, 2005, 6:31 PM

Post #21 of 31 (4852 views)



Re: [Rolly] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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Your country doctor father probably weathered more than one epidemic or health scare.

Bringing up a topic near and dear to a registered nursing trained heart:)

Often seems that lay medical philosophy and even professional medical philosophy lies down along two well-prescribed tracts of thought.

Those who care too much.
Those who care too little.

It's way beyond me to evaluate what path anyone's personal health should follow. However , in my experiential opinion, these past thirty odd years, people can have their mental/physical health heavily 'infected' by 'word of mouth'.

Being there is such a strong mind/body connection, influencing one's well-being, I take issue with fear-mongering on health or other topics. Still, it may be imperative to keep a watchful eye on phenomena as situations develop globally. Meanwhile ,researching and practicing as many common-sense preventative disease measures to try and keep one's personal and community risks of infection as low as possible.

Well, I'm now farming.

When Asian bird flu was found in our province, a few years back, there was profound alarm and massive destruction of infected and uninfected flocks in the suspected region of contamination. At that time, the slaughter was a wake-up call as to the global interaction of food production and specifically, suspected transfer of disease through travel and commerce. And bird flu has impacted provincial poultry production, protocols and regulations.

Now dedicating the twilight years to support of local sustainable production of food.

A philosophy which may very well kill me...but then...
Everyone has to die of something:)


Oct 22, 2005, 8:04 PM

Post #22 of 31 (4839 views)



Re: [caldwelld] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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What a fascinating article. Thank you for posting it.


Nov 6, 2005, 9:29 PM

Post #23 of 31 (4702 views)



Re: [talosian] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

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Hello.... I have some information about the Bird Flu. It is from a news letter that get.


Good News About "Pandemic" Flu! How to Protect Yourself and Your Family

Flu Fear Fighters

Worried about Avian Flu? Don't be. As a physician and a scientist, I want to share the best news of this flu season: You can prevent or treat the Avian Flu (IF it develops the ability to infect humans) easily, simply, cheaply, safely and naturally. And I know that there are things you can do to make the problem much, much worse. The choices are yours. Please share what you are about to read with everyone you know. This information could save huge numbers of lives.

Please remember, though, that this information is not a diagnosis or a treatment plan. It is educational material intended to help you develop your own personalized disease prevention or treatment strategy. You might want to consult a nutritional professional or natural physician to help you personalize it for you and your family.

How does the Avian Flu do its damage? Birds (or humans if the virus mutates spontaneously - or is mutated in a lab) die because the H5N1 virus depletes Vitamin C stores so quickly that the cause of death is fulminate scurvy.
Scurvy is the same disease that killed seamen on long voyages because unless we get enough Vitamin C from our diet or our supplements, we get sick or die. Humans cannot make Vitamin C but we need it for a great many vital processes including immune function and vascular integrity. This particular type of virus uses up Vitamin C stores so quickly that the immune system is overwhelmed and the blood vessels loose their structural integrity: they leak so badly that infected animals literally bleed to death through those damaged vessels.

Prevention? Vitamin C: lots and lots and lots of Vitamin C. Treatment? Lots and lots and lots of vitamin C.

Vitamin C is not toxic. Under stress (like a viral infection), your need for Vitamin C is increased. When your body has had enough, your body will tell you by soft stools or diarrhea.
This is not a sign of toxicity: it is a sign that you have reached "Bowel Tolerance" (BT). Once you get there (and it can be at 1 gram or 20 grams: your body will tell you), cut back to 75% of the dose that represents BT for you and keep taking that dose EVERY DAY.

Write down each of the 4 daily doses of Vitamin C that you take each day because you will be increasing your intake gradually until you find the amount that you need for immune support. This dosage information is important enough that it could literally save your life so it is worth taking the time to record this information carefully and stick to the dosing schedule precisely. If you mess up, don't quit, but do make your best effort to stick to it.

You will start with 1 gram per dose so, for example, on Day 1, suppose that you take 1000 mg (= 1 gram) of Vitamin C every 4 hours for a total of 4 grams. On Day 2, increase the first dose to 2 grams and then take 1 gram for your other 3 doses. (You will take 4 doses per day). On day 3, take 2 grams for your first and second doses and 1 gram for the remaining two doses. On Day 3, you would take 2 grams for the first three doses and 1 gram for the next dose. You would continue increasing your dosage in that way until your body lets you know via your GI tract that you've reach the level you need. Now multiply that total daily dose by 0.75 and you've got your daily dose.

For example, suppose you reach Bowel Tolerance at 10 doses. Multiply by 0.75 and you now know that you need 7.5 grams of Vitamin C a day for immune system support. You would do well to take reasonable doses of Vitamins E and A along with Zinc and reduced L-Glutathione since they work together with Vitamin C. How much? That depends upon your weight, health, etc. I would also recommend that you take a good Multivitamin along with the preventive levels of Vitamin C described above. The Multivitamins I recommend have so much in them that a full adult dose requires 6 capsules or tablets to get all the nutrients in. A single multivitamin cap is just not potent enough to provide serious immune support, no matter what the company tells you.

And I hope it goes without saying that the more processed foods you eat, the more chemicals, flavors, preservatives, pesticides, sugar and artificial sweeteners, in short, the more junk you put into your body, the more acidic your body will be and the less resistant to viral infection it will be. So now would be a great time to switch over to a diet rich in fruits, dark and brightly colored veggies, free range animal protein and organic everything. Those are food choices that build your immune capacity, not bang it around.

Selenium blocks deadly mutations in the Avian Flu virus (J American College Nutrition 20: 384�88S, 2001; FASEB Journal 15: 1846�48, 2001; Journal Nutrition 133: 1463�67S, 2003) while elderberry syrup has been shown to be an effective flu remedy (J International Med Research 32:132�40, 2004; Israeli Medical Assoc Journal 4:919�22, 2002; European Cytokine Network 12:290�6, 2001; J Alternative Complement Medicine 1:361�9, 1995). Garlic is a highly effective anti viral substance which should be part of your diet (Planta Medica 58:417�23, 1992).

Children's doses should be titrated the same way taking the weight of the child into account.

That part is important: this part is even more important: at the very first indication of anything that might be viral disease, increase your Vitamin C immediately. DO NOT WAIT TO SEE IF THINGS GET WORSE! INCREASE YOUR VITAMIN C TO YOUR NEW BOWEL TOLERANCE LEVEL. That level might be very, very high. Vitamin C is not toxic. Unlike drugs, which poison enzymes and are thus capable of severe toxicity, nutrients, especially water soluble ones like Vitamin C, have no meaningful level of toxicity. Your body knows what you need. Pay close attention to it.

In the event that you think you may have the flu, take the amino acids l-lysine, l-proline and l-glycine. An average size adult can take up to 3 grams of each one 4 times a day since they help prevent the spread of the virus in your body.

My personal regimen for immune health includes high dose Vitamin C and Vitamins A and E along with zinc and L-Glutathione:

I travel with Olive Leaf Extract, Oil of Oregano (not to be taken by pregnant women since it can cause abortions), goldenseal, Echinacea, curcumin (from turmeric), probiotics, B complex, fish oil and alpha lipoic acid. I drink organic green tea and I do not eat any sugar whatsoever.

If you do become ill, the best thing you can do is contact a physician who practices natural and nutritional medicine and begin a regimen of Intravenous Vitamin C treatments (you may need between 100 and 200 grams (not milligrams) for a short time since the Avian Flu is so good at using up your urgently needed Vitamin C.

Here's what not to do:

Do not take Tamiflu (oseltamivir). The widely touted antiviral drug (like its cousin Relenza or zanamivir) produced drug resistant viruses in 18% of children treated with the drug and a drug resistant strain has been found in a Vietnamese girl treated with the drug. A drug resistant strain would be a far more dangerous virus than one which had not learned how to evade the drug's effect. Viruses can not become resistant to Vitamin C.

Do not take FluMist

FluMist is a live virus vaccine which introduces between 10 and 100 million viruses into the nose. Those viruses are not the same as the Avian Flu and therefore do not confer immunity against it since only the identical virus could do that. FluMist is based on last years viruses which were not effective against last year's viruses. They are certainly not effective against the Avian Flu virus which has not yet become infective to humans so no vaccine exists against it in its infective form.

However, once treated with FluMist, people shed live, infective viruses for up to 3 weeks which can give people flu In fact, immuno-compromised people, nursing babies, people with eczema, HIV, taking steroids, chemotherapy, radiation treatment (or the 60% of the American population which is chemically immuno-suppressed) are at significant danger if they come into contact with anyone who has been inoculated with FluMist.

FluMist is delivered into the nostrils by a forceful squirt. This puts infective viruses very close to the brain where they can pass through the thin cribiform plate at the top of the nostrils and enter the brain. It is not known if such treatment causes encephalitis. Only time will tell but the risk is a serious one considering the morbidity (sickness) and mortality (death) caused by encephalitis.

Each of the three viruses in FluMist can mutate and can cause mutations in the Avian Flu. Those mutations can supply the Avian Flu virus as it currently exists with the genetic sequences it needs to become a pandemic virus. The FluMist live virus nasal inoculation can assist the much feared Avian Flu virus to transform into the very pandemic we are being told to fear

Flu Vaccines for a pandemic version of the Avian Flu do not exist. The only way to make a vaccine against a particular virus is to have the virus available and then make a toxic brew filled with poisons (mercury, aluminum, squalene), foreign particles (egg, chick, and other proteins) and contaminants (stealth viruses, etc.)That flu virus does not yet exist, we are told. Assuming that it is not already manufactured and waiting for release in a lab somewhere, it would be 6 months before an Avian Flu vaccine could be ready. Vaccination with anything else would not help a bit with the Avian Flu strain which we are supposedly facing disaster from.

But, assuming that we already had a vaccine for the right flu strain, and assuming that vaccines were safe enough to use (which I do not believe they are since vaccines are very dangerous treatments which should be approached with the gravest reservations) the fact is that they do not produce immunity most of the time. We have been ballyhooed and mislead about the efficacy and safety of vaccination.

It is neither efficacious nor safe. And to ask the American people to submit to vaccinations which are infective (because they spread live vaccines), ineffective (because they are not vaccines against the real danger which does not exist yet and vaccines take 6 months to make) and dangerous (disease rises sharply with vaccination) and for which manufacturer liability is being removed is not good medicine, good policy or good sense.

Please safeguard your life and that of your loved ones. Pass this information to everyone you know so that they can delve further and make their own choices.

And please visit to sign to new Citizen's Petition which contains the Revised Vitamin and Mineral Guideline which can make the US Codex Compliant and preserve your rights to optimal health through nutrition. If you have signed it before, you can sign it again since the original Citizen's Petition has been revised.

Yours in health and freedom,

Rima E. Laibow, MD
Medical Director
Natural Solutions Foundation


And this... from another newsletter that I get from a Dr. Mercola.

Rumsfeld To Profit From Bird Flu Hoax

By Dr. Mercola
Finally, the pieces of the puzzle start to add up. Not long ago, President Bush sought to instill panic in this country by telling us a minimum of 200,000 people will die from the avian flu pandemic, but it could be as bad as 2 million deaths in this country alone.

This hoax is then used to justify the immediate purchase of 80 million doses of Tamiflu, a worthless drug that in no way shape or form treats the avian flu, but only decreases the amount of days one is sick and can actually contribute to the virus having more lethal mutations.

So the U.S. placed an order for 20 million doses of this worthless drug at a price of $100 per dose. That comes to a staggering $2 billion.

We are being told that Roche manufactures Tamiflu and, in a recent New York Times article, they were battling whether or not they would allow generic drug companies to help increase their production.

But if you dig further you will find that a drug was actually developed by a company called Gilead that 10 years ago gave Roche the exclusive rights to market and sell Tamiflu.
Ahh, The Plot Thickens...

If you read the link below from Gilead, you'll discover Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was made the chairman of Gilead in 1997.

Since Rumsfeld holds major portions of stock in Gilead, he will handsomely profit from the scare tactics of the government that is being used to justify the purchase of $2 billion of Tamiflu.
For more on the nonsense of the avian flu hoax, you'll want to review today's other post on the subject.
Finally Medical Journal Admits the Truth
This week's British Medical Journal has an editorial on the bird flu in which they state the following:

"The lack of sustained human-to-human transmission suggests that this AH5N1 avian virus does not currently have the capacity to cause a human pandemic"

While they do go on to say the virus could mutate with the influenza A virus and has the potential to acquire the means for rapid human to human transmission, it does NOT have this ability now. All the preparation and fear being created in the media is about a theoretical speculation.

Now I am a former Boy Scout and fully believe in being prepared, but this is nothing even close to following recommendations made by experts to New Orleans that if implemented would have saved 1000 lives and half a million homes and well over 100 billion dollars from Hurricane Katrina.

No this is all about creating fear and panic to benefit the drug companies. Now, I am still not opposed to being prepared for this potential bird flu pandemic. It is POSSIBLE it might materialize. But if it did there is no way that the flu vaccine or Tamiflu will mitigate its damage. No way.

If you want to know how to truly strengthen your immune system so will laugh when the flu bug or nearly any other infectious agent seeks to infect you, then start following the Total Health Program or read the quick tips I posted last year.

Gilead Sciences Inc.

(This post was edited by willybak on Nov 6, 2005, 9:33 PM)


Nov 7, 2005, 6:12 AM

Post #24 of 31 (4675 views)



Re: [willybak] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

  | Private Reply
DISCLAIMER: The below are my OPINIONS only. I do not state them as facts, simply what I believe.

In Mexico, it seems you can't go more than a few blocks without seeing a Homeopathic Pharmacia. I am a strong believer in homeopathic, natural and alternative medicine and treatment and so I read the post by Willybak (too long to quote) with a great deal of interest. I am also a "believer" in chiropractics and have had great experiences with that form of health care. Still, I have to take exception with one thing which I sensed in the post.

My greatest respect is for health care professionals who blend all disciplines of health care (including
allopathic) and work with professionals in all fields. But I will run like the wind from a Chiropractor who says she can cure Cancer or a Hopeopathic Physician who tells me NEVER take any form of patent medication.

Is there a big "scare factor" in the press? I believe so, BUT, does that mean there is no underlying basis in fact? No.

Do the pharmaceutical companies make big $$ on their drugs? Of course. Do they po-po homeopathic so they can make more $$? Yes. But do their high-priced potions work? Usually they do.

I am not going to go into dissecting Willybak's post since mostly I support it though we have to know that one can find authoritative support/studies for most any position on any subject, and you will often find they are contrary to each other.

So my bottom line is I am going to try to use what common sense I hope I have. I will gather all the information I can and then make what I feel is an informed decision. Right now, I am going to start upping my dose of "C" and have my 10 Tamiflu caps in reserve. If/When the flu comes Lakeside, I'll avoid close quarters with groups and maybe even wear a surgical mask if I have to go into crowds. If I err, I want to do it on the side of caution.

And believe me, if there is no pandemic and millions do not die, I have no problem with people telling me, "I told you so," in fact, I hope that is the case.

And I still say to see one possible scenario, check our "Outbreak" from the LCS Video Library or whereever you can find it. It will probably be shown on TV sometime also. Fact or fiction, it's seriously scary.

"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

Howard Botz

Nov 7, 2005, 8:01 AM

Post #25 of 31 (4653 views)



Re: [willybak] Bird Flu Lakeside (A critical - literally - issue).

  | Private Reply
Well, this is certainly another opinion, which in my humble opinion, is a lot of nonsense. Does anyone really believe that the answer to an influenza pandemic is as simple as high doses of Vit. C, and if this were true are you so paranoid that you really think the health care systems from around the world would keep this information from you. By all means take Vitamin C (I do), but I would not take over 500 mg daily as high doses are controversial and thought to be harmful;and please do not think this will make you immune to influenza from any source.

Howard in Ajijic
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