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ro_mex

Sep 15, 2005, 6:57 PM

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howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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what a subject line ;)

well, here's a little ditty about the wife and I: both computer programmers, late 20s, fed up of the 12 hour days working behind a screen, living like yuppies and tired of it already

i dont like taking orders much and i hate bureaucracy with a passion. would like to have kids, a real family, we both really want to have a family. dont want to put them in daycare at the age of 3 or before, much rather have them with us for many years so we can teach them whatever we know.

we currently live in toronto, a teeming city where we are very much alone. we dont like the city much, would much much much rather live in a community. we get along well with people and are not the rush-rush people. i like authentic relationships.

by the by, i hate using my shift key so dont hate me for it. i type enough all day and my wrists burn.

knowing this about us, is it possible to set up in mexico and escape the authoritarian control here in canada (pretty much like usa if you ask me)?

could we have a family there? ive seriously thought about homeschooling. could we work somehow in a smaller town and buy food and have a decent roof over our head and gear for our children?

otherwise, the only way i see out of this mess (silly hierarchical society) is to maybe move to a smaller town in canada.

i have for a long time made my living from programming on the internet, remotely from an office, but in the past 1-2 years that hasn't worked so well so i've been working a 9-5.

as you can see i am full of youthful idiocy, but i refuse to just hunker down and work for ever and give my children up to the state so they can turn into gangbangers and potsmoking stupids.

is a better life possible where we can have friends, real friends, a community and a better life? not really chasing the american dream if ya know what i mean

by the way, we both know french fluently, are professional computer scientists, and will learn spanish inside out if/when we move.

many thanks, i should have just written a manifesto

ro

Marlene

Sep 15, 2005, 8:35 PM

Post #2 of 43 (2783 views)

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Re: [ro_mex] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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You didn't say if you have ever travelled to or around Mexico at all. I would suggest making some visits to various areas in Mexico to see how it fits you.

Lots of folks work over the internet from Mexico, (so you can certainly continue doing that) and many have young children going to school here, something which is a great experience for them. If you search through the archives you will find plenty of interesting information to read. Good luck in your plans.

ro_mex

Sep 15, 2005, 9:44 PM

Post #3 of 43 (2769 views)

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Re: [Marlene] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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We're going to be travelling around Mexico for two months, Jan-Feb 2006. Really looking forward to it.

My wife was brought up in a village in Rwanda so she's amenable to adaptation. She misses the small-village living. I am more of a visionary than most, even without experience I see beyond the constraints of the system, and imagine a better life than that which is sold to us as 'the good life'. I'm sure there are many fuddy-duddys that wish they'd made the move sooner. Being 25, I want to start living right now instead of in 30 or 40 years.

My biggest concerns are earning a living in a small village or town. We are planning to go 'native' when we move, and being of Indian descent, I think we have a physical advantage in that we do not stand out as 'gringos'. We come from families that have lived through massive upheaval, for example, she fled Rwanda in '94. My family has worked itself from the gutter as leather tanners in a tiny village in India (they would scour and scavenge for already-dead animals to skin) to professionals with multiple degrees living in England and Canada.

I realize that many think that we have a good life as professionals, and that I'm simply an incredible buffoon. They'd be right, but not for the reasons that they most likely have thought of. To live as professionals with high salaries is to live a circumscribed life. You must kowtow to your boss, do incredible shitwork, and any children that you spawn are virtually guaranteed to be ungrateful americanized pond scum.

Now I've thought about and started on the American Dream, owning your own business and all that. Bottom line for me, its not worth it. I see the clock ticking away and I see my body slowly turning to soft turd as I type forever on stupid technological artifacts.

I want a family. I want to be happy with my wife. I want beautiful children. I want to have wonderful people to laugh with, to enjoy life with, and to help and be helped by. I want a community. I'm sorry to say this but in the places I've been in life: London, Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Boston, Chicago -- I just don't think its possible. Always running but going nowhere fast, I'd rather lounge to nowheresville.

Same reason I don't consider moving to Mexico City or Guad. More shit city-living as far as I'm concerned, with the added problem of a speech impediment aka my horrendous spanish skills.

Let me tell you about moving to Toronto, where I currently live. I'm a friendly chap, I make conversations with people. The first person I met was at a huge bookstore called Chapters, sort of like Barnes and Nobles. The guy tries to sell me into his network marketing group, also known as a pyramid scheme. I walk into the mall and a cute girl gives me the eye. I walk over, and start to chat. She asks me for my phone number, I happily oblige. She then tries to sell me into Primerica, a well known network marketing scam. I walk into Walmart. An obviously Indian couple ask us where we're from. We reply that we're of Indian descent. Conversation ensues and so does phone number swapping. We invite the couple to dinner and we make them a fantastic meal. They come over with the husband in his best suit, and he goes on to say that he wont be able to stay long as he has a business meeting. So we start to feed them right away, remembering our etiquette and making pleasant conversation. Pretty soon he's trying to sell us onto Quikstar, a hugely well-known scam.

Now how do you think we feel after all this?

In summary, my concern is how to make some coin in a Mexican village or small-town. We don't care about 'amenities' like malls, walmart, cinemas, or other vagaries of the spirit. All I want is somewhere to relax, enjoy some conversation, do a little work to earn some food and shelter, raise a couple of young scrappers, and some good books, a bit of conversation, and some authentic people.

Ro

P.S. Goddamn I'm long-winded.

Chumley

Sep 16, 2005, 5:07 AM

Post #4 of 43 (2740 views)

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Re: [ro_mex] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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You sound very like the man who felt much the same about his world in the late 1930s. He decided to drop out and sought a small island few had ever heard about to start his new life of solitude and escape. Unfortunately the island turned out to be Guadacanal.

pat

Sep 16, 2005, 6:02 AM

Post #5 of 43 (2728 views)

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Emiliano Palomares is that you?

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Don Palomares, is this your new persona? If so, I have to tell you, I liked the blond better. :) Although, both are pretty good works of fiction.

Pat

rjkveton

Sep 16, 2005, 6:34 AM

Post #6 of 43 (2714 views)

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Re: [ro_mex] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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If this guy is for real, I think he might actually enjoy living in Jocotepec or in one of the villages on the south side of Lake Chapala, or perhaps Lakeside 2, aka Patzcuaro. If he is indeed Señor Dove House then he should be ashamed for allowing his cover to be blown so easily.

Another point, small town in Mexico + internet access, in your dreams. So choose another profession for making that so called coin in Mexico.

So if you are really real, do you use skype? Catch me online on skype, same username as this.

alex .

Sep 16, 2005, 7:21 AM

Post #7 of 43 (2698 views)

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Re:to Mexico to escape the bureaucracy ??

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Hoo hoo haa haa, oh my side hurts.
Alex

Gringal

Sep 16, 2005, 7:44 AM

Post #8 of 43 (2684 views)

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Re: [alex .] Re:to Mexico to escape the bureaucracy ??

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ROFL really wears you out. Do I hear distant echoes of "tune in, turn on and drop out", to the sound of rock ghosties?

If this guy is not from the dove-cote, he should consider the efforts of Mexicans leaving their lovely villages every year to get a piece of what he is rejecting. The "simple life" ain't so simple to achieve.

(This post was edited by Gringal on Sep 16, 2005, 7:47 AM)

ro_mex

Sep 16, 2005, 8:21 AM

Post #9 of 43 (2665 views)

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Re: [Chumley] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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Can't seem to find more information on Guadacanal apart from a battle. Any other keywords I can use for a search? Thanks.

ro_mex

Sep 16, 2005, 8:23 AM

Post #10 of 43 (2663 views)

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Re: [pat] Emiliano Palomares is that you?

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I'm not sure if I should take it as a compliment that my life and ideas sound fictional ;) I will take it as a compliment according to my maxim: when in doubt, laugh.

You can call me Ro, all my friends do.

Ro

ro_mex

Sep 16, 2005, 8:31 AM

Post #11 of 43 (2652 views)

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Re: [rjkveton] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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Thanks Russell for the response. I had been considering investigating Jocotepec, but was about to look at other towns first before since I heard that lakeside rents are increasing dramatically.

Since you mentioned small town in Mexico + internet access being most likely unachievable, what profession would you suggest? My wife and I both are computer programmers by trade, we know many computer languages (only a couple of human languages though :) ). I'm open to change, I'm not wedded to sitting behind a computer all my life -- indeed I'd like a change. What kinds of jobs are there in small towns? I can fix computers, sort of like a computer mechanic and did that for a few years before I became a programmer. I was thinking about learning more about cars and doing some hands on work. My pop is a handy man (not by trade -- he is an engineer), and I've done work with him albeit I never took it very seriously as a trade. I'm pretty good with toilets actually, I can do a lot of serious work on them.

Thanks and I've added you to skype. Anyone who wants to speak to me via skype is most welcome, my user name there is 'ro_core'.

Ro

esperanza

Sep 16, 2005, 9:16 AM

Post #12 of 43 (2630 views)

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Re: [ro_mex] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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Ro, just for what it's worth: no work permits are currently being issued out of the Guadalajara INAMI office. Even local foreigners who were skirting around that rule by trying to get a work permit from the Mexico City INAMI office are now being turned down. Why? Too many foreigners looking for work in this part of Mexico--including Guadalajara and the Lake Chapala area.

The law is that no foreigner is allowed do work that a Mexican can do. You'd probably be surprised at how many Mexicans are fully trained computer programers. And to try to get auto mechanic's work here? That's bread and butter for many Mexicans.

Don't even think about working under the table. You will eventually be reported, and the penalty is deportation plus the possibility of a hefty fine.

Even being hired by a foreign company to work here in Jalisco doing work that a Mexican is not trained to do is no guarantee that the company will be able to get a work permit for you. A Canadian friend's company has been turned down repeatedly both in Guadalajara and in Mexico City, and my friend is already here, waiting for the last month to do the work he was hired to do.

And what's that about not finding Internet access in small towns? Some of the smallest towns have full-on high speed Internet cafés. Home access is also available and computers (and Internet services) are for sale at any Telmex office.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

rjkveton

Sep 16, 2005, 10:04 AM

Post #13 of 43 (2606 views)

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Internet Access to allow working from Mexico

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I'm sure you can find internet access in many smaller towns. You just need to check carefully to see what is available. Prodigy dial-up should have the most ubiquitous coverage in Mexico, and I'm assuming you would want service at your house. If you feel you need some sort of higher speed access, you choices probably will be more limited. I would not give up on the idea of working as a programmer from Mexico, just make sure you thoroughly investigate what internet access options are available before you settle down. My original "in your dreams" comment was intended to make you aware that this is not always a slam dunk here in Mexico.

As long as you are paid by a foreign company with funds deposited to your Canadian or U.S. bank account, you will be doing nothing illegal. But start working for local companies or individuals and you could get into trouble.

Honestly I think the best thing for you to do is work even harder and longer hours where you are and save as much money as possible before you move to Mexico. Now if you feel you have already done that and have an adequate cash reserve, then come on down, but there are no guarantees once you get there. Don't burn any bridges when you leave where you are.

I'll try to catch you on skype later.

dtracy8671

Sep 16, 2005, 10:39 AM

Post #14 of 43 (2582 views)

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Re: [ro_mex] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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Oh, my! Going back to chop wood, carry water? How "hippie". You seem to want and think that a small town, good friends, etc. will bring you much happiness. Remember this, "No one, or anything, can make you happy. You must first find the happiness within youself - then you can allow the outside things to share your happiness." Wherever you go, your baggage goes with you.

I hope you find what you are looking for. Just remember, down the road you and your wife will miss the mall, the cinema, etc. You think no, but believe me, you will, at some point.

Gringal

Sep 16, 2005, 10:53 AM

Post #15 of 43 (2568 views)

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Re: [dtracy8671] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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Yep. "chop wood; carry water". The man is looking at the "geographical solution". This may work until the money runs out and the newness wears off. On the other hand, he can try some practical steps, like finding a less demanding job, downsizing his lifestyle and leaving the big city for a small town near him where everyone knows everyone elses' business, and the authenticity of it all makes you long for a larger world and its distractions.
Raising kids? We are now in a global village where village boys long for expensive American sport shoes. Where there is television and the internet, there is the snake in the garden.

Bubba

Sep 16, 2005, 12:05 PM

Post #16 of 43 (2534 views)

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Re: [ro_mex] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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If you are feeling like a mushy turd now just wait until you are in your 60s when you will be diarrhea. Why not move back to Rwanda now that Africans are reconciling their ethnic differences? East Indians exploited that part of Africa for years. Maybe you can re-establish your wife's place in the community.

Are you sure you are not Ms Powell and took a wrong turn on your way to Soweto?

(This post was edited by Bubba on Sep 16, 2005, 12:06 PM)

anna

Sep 16, 2005, 3:10 PM

Post #17 of 43 (2478 views)

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Re: [Bubba] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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Hi
We are living in really small town in mexico, and we run a cyber cafe with highspeed, broadband access! It can be done!

Incidently we are canadians, with two little kids, and what this guy says sounds very familiar to me!
www.posadalasflores.com

rjkveton

Sep 16, 2005, 3:32 PM

Post #18 of 43 (2470 views)

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Re: [anna] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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I briefly spoke to "this guy" today using skype, and will speak with him more next week as he was just about to leave on a weekend camping trip. His username on skype is ro_core if you would be interested in conversing with him via that medium. I sure he would be interested in what you have to say. Sounds like you could give him some very useful advice. He sounded like a very nice and sincere dude.

By the way, is some form of high speed internet access available to all residences in Rincon de G.? I would admit that small town resort areas such as yours on the coast will probably be more likely to have some form of high speed internet access. But if it is only available from your cyber cafe, that does not help someone who want to work from home.

I would also be willing to bet that as the small towns get away from the coast or from major cities, that any form of internet access becomes harder to find.

esperanza

Sep 16, 2005, 4:58 PM

Post #19 of 43 (2444 views)

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Re: [rjkveton] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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You would lose your bet, rjkveton.

When I first came to Mexico, 25 years ago, I stayed with friends (Mexicans) in a town of about 700 people high up on the tallest mountain in Michoacán. The town is 27 kilometers from Uruapan, but the bus trip to get there took three hours--there were no paved roads and the zigzag route was all up hill. There were two telephones: the mayor's office phone number was 1 and the parish office was 2. Those were the TELEPHONE NUMBERS: 1 and 2. Today, that town has a population of about 2500 and sports an Internet café.

Another tiny Michoacán town where I've spent a lot of time over the years used to have a caseta and a three or four private phones. Today, there are at least four Internet cafés in town.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

johnv

Sep 16, 2005, 7:30 PM

Post #20 of 43 (2405 views)

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Re: [rjkveton] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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Internet access is available virtually anywhere by one means or another. That includes small towns in México.

bella40

Sep 17, 2005, 12:25 AM

Post #21 of 43 (2352 views)

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Re: [ro_mex] howdy yall, wife and I want to be free

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The thing about computer programming is that you really can live anywhere. I’ve worked on teams with one guy in Germany, on in Alaska, one in Indiana, and the rest in California. It’s about as ideal an occupation you can find, if you want to live in unusual places or move often.

But I’m sure you know that if you’re a programmer – so I wonder why you’d even consider trying to work locally? Being able to take your high-paying career with you is a great asset. Especially since you can work fewer hours, if you choose!

rjkveton

Sep 17, 2005, 6:07 AM

Post #22 of 43 (2337 views)

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Beating a dead horse

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But is it available in private residences, since this is what I think the OP would be most interested in. A couple of cyber cafes does not qualify IMHO. So why can't we hear from some folks who live in the boonies and have at least dial-up internet access in their home, or better yet some form of high speed internet access.

Another thing to keep in mind is the quality of the phone infrastructure. I know this is getting better as well. About a year ago Telmex upgraded the lines in my hood and now I get 54.6, before was usually 33.6 or thereabouts. So for someone like the OP who wants to work at home along with his wife, and probably share the internet connection, 33.6 would probably be unacceptable and 54.6 might be as well. Now despite the fact that Telmex upgraded the lines, they have not installed to equipment to provide ADSL, so go figure, so I live with dial-up.

So once again lets see if we can help out Ro by hearing from some folks who lives in a place like he describes and have the type of internet access he would seem to need, or at least knows someone who does.

(This post was edited by rjkveton on Sep 17, 2005, 6:10 AM)

Esteban

Sep 17, 2005, 6:17 AM

Post #23 of 43 (2333 views)

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Re: [rjkveton] Beating a dead horse

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You always have the choice of your own satellite internet connection. Jonna, of Mexconnect has her own setup and lately, through the grapevine, I've heard of systems coming out of Mexico that should blow the socks off anything available so far, on the market, and will be VERY fast both up and down. The technology has been there but now, the price is right.

johnv

Sep 17, 2005, 6:56 AM

Post #24 of 43 (2323 views)

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Re: [rjkveton] Beating a dead horse

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Yes Mr. RJ, as Esteban says, I was referring to satellite internet. It is a dish that sends and receives your internet connection via satellite, no phone or cable lines involved. In addition, you could even have an internet connection in an area with no electricity, by running the whole system off of a bank of 12 volt batteries, powering an AC inverter, or more simply, just using a generator.

rjkveton

Sep 17, 2005, 7:22 AM

Post #25 of 43 (2304 views)

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Re: [johnv] Beating a dead horse

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Now look you guys, if you have enough money I guess you can also get your own T1 line anywhere in Mexico. Compared to what most of us can afford in the $30 to $40 range per month, with perhaps a couple of hundred bucks or thereabouts of up front cost, what does it cost to install satellite internet and what is the cost per month?

And are the satellite guys really going to solve the latency problem which makes satellite service virtually unusable for VOIP? I don't know how the hell they are going to be able to get the signal up to the bird and back to earth any quicker than they can now. I use skype over my 54.6 dial-up connection and it works great, but I bet it would be unusuable over a "high speed" satellite connection. Sorry about my being a skeptic, but I've just been around this game for too long and have witnessed to much hype and pie-in-the-sky promises never delivered.

VOIP has to be one of the best justifications for a high speed connection, which leaves satellite internet sucking wind as far as I'm concerned. Just my opinion expressed openly and honestly.

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