Forums > Specific Focus > Home, Garden & Construction in Mexico

catherinelilly

Sep 3, 2005, 10:35 AM

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construction costs

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We have just bought some land in Isla Mujeres through Mundaca Real Estate and are currently working with an arhcitect to begin the process of building a 2,000 sf house. We have received plans but are looking for a rule of thumb on construction costs and also for the architect costs and project management fees. Mundaca is the one who recommended the architect and who will oversee the construction. We have been quoted an estimate of $67 psf for construction costs based on a medium level of finishes. The architect and engineers fee quote is 6% of the total and project management fee is 2% of the total. Do these figures seem like they are in the right ballpark? Thank you.

johnv

Sep 3, 2005, 5:50 PM

Post #2 of 25 (7227 views)

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Re: [catherinelilly] construction costs

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I asked what to expect per square foot on this forum a while back and was told to "forget it" by Esteban. "Absolutely impossible to use a general figure to estimate construction costs" is what the post said more or less. Well, I don't buy that, and I beleive it is possible to use general, cost per square foot figures, to estimate construction. I should have known better than to try to get any useful information here, so I did my own research, and not much of it, at that. I came up with the figures that construction costs may vary in Mexico from MXP$1000 to MXP$5000 per square meter. $5000 being high end and $1000 being a shanty. For the typical construction expected by an average retiree or upper middle class or higher Mexican I came up with a figure of MXP$3750 per square meter. So...if you divide that $3750 by 10.76 sq. ft. per sq. meter you get 348.5 pesos per square foot which doesn't really jive with your figure of 67 pesos per square foot. Maybe I'm all wrong on this, but that is the results of my research, and anyone please chip in anything that they know about this subject. (Note: I just read that super luxury Mexican home construction runs in the 11,000 to 12,000 peso per sq. meter range.)

Esteban

Sep 3, 2005, 6:38 PM

Post #3 of 25 (7215 views)

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Re: [johnv] construction costs

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I stand by what I said. It's almost impossible to get a firm price per square foot because of the variables. You have to compare apples to apples. For sure, building on Isla Mujeres, will be much more expensive. If you want to see what Rolly has done with money and materials. Check out his website at http://www.rollybrook.com. He has a material/labor breakdown for a good sized project. He started in 2003 so things have changed considerably pricewise. It is said that there isn't much inflation but that's a real joke. The price of steel and cement has gone up immensely since his project. I hope that Patricio will chime in here and give an update on the cost of his project. He is, as we speak, building a place.
Don't believe anyone's price unless you have a contract that says they will actually COMPLETE the project for a specific price INCLUDING all fixtures etc. You can crunch the numbers but I believe that Johnv needs to qualify his price by being specific as to what he is building and where he is building. Otherwise it's a not much more than a joke.

patricio_lintz

Sep 3, 2005, 7:24 PM

Post #4 of 25 (7206 views)

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Re: [Esteban] construction costs

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OK, master chef, Esteban, you got it. I will update my previous thread on material costs with what I have paid lately for cemrnt, morter and sand, delivered to my job site in the Chapala area.

patricio_lintz

Sep 3, 2005, 8:14 PM

Post #5 of 25 (7196 views)

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Re: [patricio_lintz] construction costs

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How about my spreadsheet of costs. Attached as Quattro Pro and as Excel?

See below.

This is all construction costs as of today. Doesn't count lot, landscape, sweat equity, diesel fuel, etc.

This is a 2350 sq ft home m.o.l. Costs for shell and foundation. Windows not yet installed, electrical, complete less finish installation of switches & outlets.
Plumbing rough-in complete. Water heater, la bomba & tinaco are in. Gas is ready for cyclinders to connect.

We are looking for a finished total cost between $900,000 pesos and $1,000,000 pesos, again less landscape & lot.

Don't forget that I have been the construction manager, buying all materials & paying cash weekly to workers, since we let the architect go. It's been more cost effective that way.

Build-it-yourselfers: Architects usually take a % of material & labor costs for themselves. Make sure that you have the amount engraved in stone, iron-clad in the contract. Look for construction contracts on the internet. Then again. It don't mean a thing if it ain't in espanol!

(This post was edited by patricio_lintz on Sep 3, 2005, 8:16 PM)

Attachments:

Mexconnect costs.xls (73.2 KB)

Esteban

Sep 3, 2005, 9:16 PM

Post #6 of 25 (7184 views)

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Re: [patricio_lintz] construction costs

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You and Rolly amaze me with your excellent record keeping. It's very rare that I've seen anyone do that in Mexico. I'd like to add that your method, both of you, is the only way to keep costs down. Not everyone has your skills and usually, I'd guess that the cost would run MUCH higher without your guidance, work and experience.

Patricio, I'm also interested in your ideas about how the rising cost of materials has affected your project. Thanks.

It's invaluable information for anyone thinking about the building process in Mexico.

And thanks again for sharing.

Esteban

(This post was edited by Esteban on Sep 3, 2005, 9:19 PM)

catherinelilly

Sep 4, 2005, 5:25 AM

Post #7 of 25 (7168 views)

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Re: [Esteban] construction costs

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Thanks so much everyone for your thoughts and information! Very valuable, and we will check out Rolly's site in more detail as well. We have just joined Mexconnected and it is so helpful tobe able to hear from folks who have done this before.

johnv

Sep 4, 2005, 7:53 AM

Post #8 of 25 (7155 views)

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Re: [patricio_lintz] construction costs

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Thankyou Patricio Lintz, Rolly, and Esteban. Any further input welcome.

patricio_lintz

Sep 4, 2005, 7:55 AM

Post #9 of 25 (7154 views)

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Re: [catherinelilly] construction costs

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See pix at www.flickr.com/photos/juan_patricio

Thanks for your praise, Esteban. It is important that we all help each other and our Mexican communities!

Esteban

Sep 4, 2005, 9:51 AM

Post #10 of 25 (7136 views)

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Re: [johnv] construction costs

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Both Rolly and Patricio have two unique situations that have possibly saved them from 20% to 80% of what a neophyte might have to pay.

Let's take Rolly for instance, he doesn't speak much Spanish but he does understand the concept of record keeping as the money goes out quickly and is easily lost in translation and extras. I'll bet you, Rolly was on the job site EVERY day or close to everyday.

What Rolly also had, that makes ALL the difference in the world, south of the border, was a FAMILY that cared for him. Not friends or acquaintances but real family. He had sweat equity from family, he had help with many things because he is an integral part of that family. He lives with the family, he knows the family and is respected by the family. That's a HUGE plus and will save you big bucks if you have a similar situation.

Patricio has the knowledge of building techniques from real life construction management experience plus he has the benefit of having worked with Mexican workers north of the border. Now, you add in his skills with the Spanish language, his wife's fluency with Spanish and you have a combination unique to most situations. This situation too, probably saved his whole project from the possibility of doubling in price if you figure in the problems he ran into with some workers he had to dismiss.

So, if you look at their numbers, you can get an idea of what it takes for people in the ideal situation. Everything else is easily subject to the money pit.

(This post was edited by Esteban on Sep 4, 2005, 9:52 AM)

gpk

Sep 5, 2005, 11:56 AM

Post #11 of 25 (7091 views)

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Re: [patricio_lintz] construction costs

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Great information. Did you have a budget or estimate as to costs and time to completion? If so, how close are you to the estimates?

patricio_lintz

Sep 5, 2005, 6:37 PM

Post #12 of 25 (7062 views)

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Re: [gpk] construction costs

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We are overbudget & behind schedule. But what house project down here isn't?

It is difficult to forsee all costs. Like we did not know our lote was 80% rocks one foot below the surface. However, that also provided free building material for foundation and containment walls.

A project which comes within +or _ 10% of schedule and budget is an excellently managed project. Ours was originally grossly underestimated.

abq

Oct 6, 2005, 8:49 AM

Post #13 of 25 (6918 views)

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Re: [patricio_lintz] construction costs

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I agree, construcion costs are hard to budget. Also i've noticed that when I quiz those that tell me their costs came in under $US50 per square foot, they often left the expensive finish work for future projects.

patricio_lintz

Oct 11, 2005, 7:47 PM

Post #14 of 25 (6850 views)

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Re: [abq] construction costs

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At move-in, coming up in a month or two, I will post total costs & measure the square meters (feet) accurately.

Buenas suertas con sus projectos!

patricio_lintz

Oct 15, 2005, 2:09 PM

Post #15 of 25 (6793 views)

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House shell construction costs

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For information:
We are finished with the *house shell (panel construction, 2400 sq. ft. mol), including electrical & plumbing rough-in water heater, tinaco, driveway, muros and fencing. Gates, windows, doors, cabinets, tile, fixtures for two bathrooms not included.

*House shell:$843,000 pesos

We bid our workers farewell, today, with the promise of a fiesta to be held in the New Year with all in attendence.

Rolly / Moderator

Oct 15, 2005, 2:34 PM

Post #16 of 25 (6789 views)

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Re: [patricio_lintz] House shell construction costs

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Congratulations on reaching an important milestone in your job.

Your shell cost about US$33.45 (assuming a 10.5::1 exchange). But you still have a lot left, and some of it gets expensive. My guess is you will top US$60 before its done.

Best wishes.

Rolly Pirate

abq

Oct 15, 2005, 2:54 PM

Post #17 of 25 (6786 views)

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Re: [patricio_lintz] House shell construction costs

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Thanks for sharing the costs. So far, you're doing great with the costs. Roll's right though. It's the finishes that can turn a construction project into a money pit.

patricio_lintz

Oct 15, 2005, 3:48 PM

Post #18 of 25 (6779 views)

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Re: [abq] House shell construction costs

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Thanks, guys! We are being conservative with the finishing as this is a fairly simple retirement home. The architect had estimated shell costs at $600,000 pesos. Estimates are just rule of thumb (ROT) unless based on a lot of local experience.

Moisheh

Oct 21, 2005, 7:57 AM

Post #19 of 25 (6713 views)

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Re: [patricio_lintz] House shell construction costs

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Great pics Patricio> We live in the North of Sonoar and construction techniques vary by region. 2 things that really bother me on Mexican construction sites:
1. The way they mix concrete is horrible. On small jobs it is mixed on the ground. Even when they use a mixer the slump varies from load to load. In the summer heat the previously poured concrete is dry before the new mix is added. I guess the results would not meet any standard.

2. The foundations made of rock and cement. In Sonora they dig a rectangular ditch, place large rocks into the ditch and fill with concrete. No vibration is used so the concrete mix is very soupy. That way it is supposed to fill the cavity. Of course the concrete has no strength.

Cynthia7

Oct 21, 2005, 6:47 PM

Post #20 of 25 (6685 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] House shell construction costs

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I don't know if it is "horrible". They built the pyramids, palaces and haciendas that way and they are still standing. They built my house that way and it doesn't have a crack or split in it...The problem comes from ignorance or greed..don't know or try to do it cheap.

Rolly / Moderator

Oct 21, 2005, 8:21 PM

Post #21 of 25 (6672 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] House shell construction costs

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Looks like you got caught by the bug in the QUOTE function. We missed your message.

Back to your original comments about the stones in the foundation, etc. Stones are used because they are much cheaper than concrete and perform just fine in foundations for one or two or even three story houses.

I was a bit taken aback when I first saw typical Mexican construction techniques, but with study and experience, I came to realize that they work well and have done so for a very long time. In many ways the Mexican masonry constructions are better than the typical stick frame techniques of the USA and Canada.

You can watch the details of a house being built by typical Mexican techniques at: http://rollybrook.com/building_directory.htm

Rolly Pirate

Moisheh

Oct 22, 2005, 7:33 AM

Post #22 of 25 (6651 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] House shell construction costs

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Missing from my post: I hope you were not saying I was ignorant or cheap. I dont understand your post. I really dont care if Hoover dam was built that way. Concrete should not be mixed with dirt. Nor should the slump be like chicken soup. The rock method might be ok if the concrete were vibrated to fill the void.

Camille

Nov 2, 2005, 10:34 PM

Post #23 of 25 (6539 views)

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Re: [Esteban] construction costs

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I so SECOND THIS EMOTION!!!!!! Had I not had the invaluable help of a local who became a friend, I would have become a victim of an evil seller with a history of victimizing gringos, and yet I was able to wrestle with a pig and come out smelling good, as my grandma used to say......
I am living in Paradise with the help and advice of my Mexican friend, and at last preparing my garden with the organic greens I have grown in Texas for sale to restaurants since 1994.

patricio_lintz

Nov 3, 2005, 9:40 AM

Post #24 of 25 (6513 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] House shell construction costs

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You are correct in the method concrete should be mixed. Our foundation, slab & entrepisos were built using a mixer. This is the way it should be done.
Our walls were stuccoed with cemento (stucco) hand mixed on plywood or on the chochera floor.

However, many old homes in the Southwest and in desert Mexico were built of adobe mud wit hrock or other foundations with little or no cement in them. Some of them have done well over the years and some not.

I believe that is is possible to build a foundation with low tensile strength (no steel) masonary materials because a foundation is subject mostly to compressive forces with few tensile forces unless you are building in an earthquake prone area. However, the good engineering approach demands that those of us who can should always use steel & good concrete in our building projects. Why take the chance of later cracking? The cost of doing it right is not much more.

Our own house, built of steel reinforced panel becomes one monolithic structure, like a boat hull, anchored & supported by concrete filled castillos when finished properly. This is an extremely strong method of construction.

heff

Nov 3, 2005, 4:00 PM

Post #25 of 25 (6491 views)

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Re: [catherinelilly] construction costs

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Catherinelilly,
Glad to hear someone else is building in the "Greater Cancun" area. Isle Mujeras is very much removed from our building site of Playacar but some comparisons are in order. We have a great builder with a wonderful reputation in the Playa area and that makes all the difference. We are behind schedule but with the hurricanes we are still pleased with our progress. We have a contract for the house at about $60 per square foot and that included many nice details including built-in cabinets and closets. Our builder, Jose Luis Limon, has held the budget on the project despite Wilma and other problems. We have only suffered in timing. He builds everything by hand using a cement mixer as well as hand mixed cement .........no ready mix for Jose, although it is available here in Playa. By the way his architect fees are included in the $60 price, so we are very happy with the price and so far the product. Please contact me if you have questions about our project. Good luck with you house, Ise Majures is a wonderful place to be.