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viajita


Aug 22, 2005, 6:00 AM

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Pozos

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I live in Ajijic but it's getting too gringo and too crowded. Would someone please correspond with me about Pozos. Climate, real estate prices, etc. It will be appreciated.



Gringal

Aug 22, 2005, 8:01 AM

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Re: [viajita] Pozos

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Pozos has a website: <MineraldePozos.com>. This will give you the "chamber of commerce" version of Pozos. It is at an elevation above 7000ft. and is cooler than The Chapala area. It is also sparsely populated with very little infrastructure and many, many ruins. The charming hostess at Casa Montana is also a real estate agent and can give you that type of information. If you like solitude and a long ride to the nearest supermarket, this is the place. We thoroughly enjoy the 45 minute drive to Pozos on occasion. We stop for lunch, take pictures, become enchanted, think better of it and go back to SMA, refreshed. In the August issue of a locally distributed real estate magazine, Pozos was touted as the "next San Miguel de Allende". In that spirit, I will plant an acorn in my patio and expect to live long enough to dine under the shade of an oak tree.

If you're looking for a less gringoized environment that still has the advantages of a working infrastructure, you might look into Patzquaro. For information on that area, check out "Palomares" postings and the websites he refers to.


(This post was edited by Gringal on Aug 22, 2005, 8:11 AM)


Carol Schmidt


Aug 22, 2005, 9:19 AM

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Re: [viajita] Pozos

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If you'd like to buy a turnkey restaurant/bar/art gallery right on main street of Pozos, one of my favorite artists, Dan Reuffert, is selling Los Famosos, the best restaurant in Pozos, IMO. An apartment is included on the premises. It's a beautiful building with a courtyard and gorgeous views of the area from the second-floor restaurant, for $175,000.

The realtor is Teresa Martinez, pozosmex@yahoo.com, at www.casamexicanarealestate.com. Their real estate ad in the August Real Estate Review also quotes the line "Invest in Pozos, the next San Miguel. Own prime real estate in Pozos, Guanajuato, Mexico's next artist community only 25 miles from San Miguel de Allende. Average prices from $15,000 to $65,000. Historical landmarks, ruins, hacienda, ranchos, building lots, residential, commercial, bilingual advice on building and restoration."

I also found it too desolate for my tastes, and that 25 miles seems like a looooong drive through farmland. Two women have a fantastic art collective there, though. Please visit http://www.colectivadepozos.com/pages/3/index.htm for Lena Bartula and Cynthia Buzzard's vision of Pozos. They are wonderful women who will sell you on Pozos' future more realistically than the real estate agents will.

I hear even more disparate estimates of population for Pozos than for SMA. Sometimes I hear there are as many as 2,000 Mexicans and 800 gringos, other times I hear it is more like 400 Mexicans and 50 gringos. Maybe it's a matter of what is the city limits, just like SMA. I would check on water quality if you do decide to purchase land anywhere near those abandoned mines. All those ruins just give me the creeps.

The people we know who live there love it. Even Dan, though he is selling his restaurant, still plans to spend a chunk of each day in Pozos.

Last time we visited, a very enthusiastic customer at his restaurant told us that Pozos is the perfect place for a writer or artist--no distractions to keep you from your work! As for me, bring on those distractions! I'd be driving in to SMA every night for something to do.

I agree with gringal, Pozos is not going to be another San Miguel in our lifetime. There isn't the large base of a thriving Mexican community of 130,000 with all of the religious and cultural activities going on, nor is there anything like the Instituto Allende and Belles Artes which have been draws for artists for many decades.

I tried living outside a tiny rural "rust belt" dying Michigan town for awhile after Los Angeles finally wore me out, and I won't make that mistake again, no matter how hard that town's Chamber of Commerce kept pushing that they would rise again.

Added later:
Here's the website of a new blog spot for Pozos. http://mineraldepozos.blogspot.com/ And here's the website for Los Famosos restaurant: http://www.mineraldepozos.com/eng/eat/famosos.htm Here's the link to a NY Times article on Pozos written last year: http://travel2.nytimes.com/...3BA35751C0A9629C8B63 If you're not registered with the NY TImes yet it may take a minute to do so but it's free. At least for now--the NYTimes will start charging for its online edition soon.

Carol Schmidt

(This post was edited by Carol Schmidt on Aug 22, 2005, 12:21 PM)


Gringal

Aug 22, 2005, 10:46 AM

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Pozos

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"Last time we visited, a very enthusiastic customer at his restaurant told us that Pozos is the perfect place for a writer or artist--no distractions to keep you from your work! As for me, bring on those distractions! I'd be driving in to SMA every night for something to do. "
_____________________________________________________________________

This thought would make a good thread for San Miguel, since this town has more than its fair share of artists and wrtiers. I whole-heartedly agree with you on the value of distractions. Only in fiction and movies do creative types want isolation. With few exceptions, they thrive on outside stimulation.

Regarding the restaurant business in Pozos, I noticed that the Cafe des Artistes on the main square next to Casa Montana is also up for sale at $175,000US.
From everything I've heard, it's tough enough to survive in the restaurant business in a town that's hopping like SMA. I don't know how anyone could make it pay in Pozos. What's that saying about making a small fortune in the restaurant business, again?


Bubba

Aug 22, 2005, 3:27 PM

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Re: [viajita] Pozos

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This discussion of Pozos seems almost like a melancholic dream to me. I must admit that I never heard of the place before today and I'm certainly not putting it down - it sounds like a very interesting place to visit. Coming at the back end of the odd discussion of the seemingly unearthly virtues of the isolated and also somewhat melancholic if exquisite Patzcuaro, this talk of these obscure places makes me wonder if what many of us who retire here are seeking has less to do with these "charming" locations than it does our desire to inflate our own egos by being "of" someplace the existence of which has nothing to do with any contribution of our own. There seems to be an earnest need among many of us to latch on a geographic area with a romantic aura in order to make ourselves seem more worthy. One hundred years from now, the Pozosians still walking about will not know the dust upon which they are treading was once you.

One can be a great artist in Moline as well as Pozos. Get over it.


Gringal

Aug 22, 2005, 4:49 PM

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Re: [Bubba] Pozos

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"One can be a great artist in Moline as well as Pozos. Get over it. "
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Yeah, Bubba, but why live in Moline when you can live in San Francisco?

Why do people move to Mexico, anyway? The reasons are often a search for romance that was lacking in their home towns. They're looking for a better movie. Who can blame them? You seem to be saying they're looking for validation of their personal superiority when they seek out places that are "different" from the gringo enclaves such as the Chapala area. Give them a break. Based on your posts, you're not so pleased with what's been happening in your town lately. Maybe they're just searching for the Mexico dream they started out with.


(This post was edited by Gringal on Aug 22, 2005, 5:16 PM)


Bubba

Aug 22, 2005, 5:31 PM

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Re: [Gringal] Pozos

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I hear you Gringal.

When I lived in the mountains between Santa Rosa (Sonoma County) and St. Helena (Napa County) California and was absolutely determined to get out of the United States and move down here, I hired a fancy,smart assed realtor from St. Helena to sell my country property which was in the wilderness equadistant between each of those towns. Santa Rosa is a medium sized and rather ordinary city but St. Helena is a small town where people don't have bad breath and take pleasure at being from a place where they pulled out all the prune orchards and planted grapes 60 years ago and I said to that fancy realtor that I wanted to sell my home to one of those Silicon Valley entrepreneurs with more DotCom money that sense and she told me, "Folks seeking the Napa Valley do not like to descend the hills into Sonoma County." And, by God she was right. If my home had been three miles up the road and across the Napa County line in an area with the same profile I'd be living in High Cotton today. Hell, I might even be over there in San Miguel today sitting in that plaza and going, " Well, I live here you know. Let me tell you how to find this wonderful little gelato shop in Centro which is next to the most precious little taqueria you have ever seen and after that it is only a short walk to the galleries and tonight we have a concert in the plaza...."

Instead, I live in the pedestrian community of Ajijic where I pick my morning grapefruit from the garden tree every morning in season. What a shame.

You can have your Pozos.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Aug 22, 2005, 6:17 PM)


raferguson


Aug 22, 2005, 5:38 PM

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Re: [viajita] Pozos

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I agree with the cynical remarks about Pozos. One recollection of a visit a few years ago was discussions with a man with a Burro who was cutting cactus to feed his cow. We went to a store, bought a flute, and when we left he shut up his shop, despite the sign saying that he would be open a few hours more. Pozos just seemed dead to us.

Speaking of old mining towns, Real de Catorce, SLP, has more going on than Pozos, although it has a lot of ruins as well. Mexico is full of old mining towns, and all of them have some appeal to visit, but they are generally too isolated and poor to actually choose to live there.

Richard


http://www.fergusonsculpture.com


Bubba

Aug 22, 2005, 5:54 PM

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Re: [raferguson] Pozos

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Richard:

I respect your opinion. I will tell you that I find the desert around SLP to be a beautiiful and magical place. In my opinion, this is among the most beautiful high desert regions in the world and the rural area is within a short drive of the often splendid city of San Luis Potosi. You cannot hurt my feelings. What do you think?

Bob


jacpowell

Aug 22, 2005, 7:51 PM

Post #10 of 23 (3009 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Pozos

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One hundred years from now, the Pozosians still walking about will not know the dust upon which they are treading was once you.



Chumley

Aug 23, 2005, 4:56 AM

Post #11 of 23 (2985 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Pozos

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If there were such a thing as a "EPA Superfund clean-up site" in Mexico, Pozos would be the poster city. The ground is polluted with years of mining using Mercury. Would you drink the water?


Gringal

Aug 23, 2005, 10:42 AM

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Re: [Chumley] Pozos

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True enough, but where in Mexico would you drink the tap water?


Bubba

Aug 23, 2005, 11:44 AM

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Re: [Chumley] Pozos

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Good point, Chumley.


wyhaines

Aug 23, 2005, 11:48 AM

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Re: [Gringal] Pozos

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I think Rolly has posted that the tap water up in his neck of the desert (Lerdo, Durango) is drinkable.

Mercury is a special concern, though, because it is absorbed even through skin contact, which makes mercury contamination dangerous and difficult to deal with.

Has the Pozos area water been tested, to anyone's knowledge? It's easy to get such tests don NOB. Is there anyone SOB who will do them for a reasonable fee?


Kirk Haines


not_ally

Aug 23, 2005, 12:17 PM

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Re: [wyhaines] Pozos

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This could be urban myth but I had heard that Pozos became a ghost town *because* the water was poisonous and children started getting sick and dying. But it's true that I drink bottled everywhere, anyway (the tap water ain't so great in my part of LA, either ....)
----------------------------
"The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly I discover there is no reason." John Cage


Gringal

Aug 23, 2005, 3:22 PM

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Re: [not_ally] Pozos

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I managed to survive the tap water in L.A. and grow up only slightly off kilter, but I think you and others have made a good point about the mercury contamination in Pozos. Anyone thinking of moving there should definitely check it out.

In this regard, I'm reminded of a situation in my old home town of Santa Cruz, CA where a current city project involves converting an old tannery complex into an affordable housing/working area for artists. The ground is contaminated with the chemicals used in the tanning process, and the buildings themselves are adjacent to a river on a designated flood plan. Now Pozos is attracting artists because of the relatively cheap property. The question is, are artists as a class oblivious or just desperate for inexpensive digs ?


(This post was edited by Gringal on Aug 23, 2005, 3:23 PM)


Gringal

Aug 23, 2005, 3:50 PM

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Re: [Bubba] Pozos

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 "Hell, I might even be over there in San Miguel today sitting in that plaza and going, " Well, I live here you know. Let me tell you how to find this wonderful little gelato shop in Centro which is next to the most precious little taqueria you have ever seen and after that it is only a short walk to the galleries and tonight we have a concert in the plaza...."
_______________________________________________________________________________

Before you arrived to San Miguel and started talking like that, you would have had a lobotomy.







Marta R

Aug 23, 2005, 4:21 PM

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Re: [Gringal] Pozos

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The question is, are artists as a class oblivious or just desperate for inexpensive digs ?


In my experience, the answer is "yes" and "yes."

Marta


Bubba

Aug 23, 2005, 4:30 PM

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Re: [Gringal] Pozos

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Gringal:

That tannery was one of the most prominent clients of County Bank of Santa Cruz when I went to work there in 1976. I first lived in Felton and then Aptos. In those days Santa Cruz was known as the murder capital of the U.S. Remember the guy who murdered his mother, chopped off her head and then raped the headless corpse? Big Ed Kemper I believe he was. He did not care for his mother. Whatever happened to ole Big Ed. We didn't have the death penalty in those days so he's probably still sitting around in his cell going, "Mom!, Where are you mom?"

We didn't give a happy damn if that tannery poisoned the entire region as long as they paid their monthly interest bill. The bank, which in those days had been there for about 100 years, the tannery and the hip (in those days) pedestrian mall that was the scene in Santa Cruz in those days are all existent only in the mind today. We thought we were so important and we weren't crap.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Aug 23, 2005, 5:00 PM)


Miguel Palomares


Aug 23, 2005, 6:24 PM

Post #20 of 23 (2870 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Pozos

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Gringal opines,

Quote
If you're looking for a less gringoized environment that still has the advantages of a working infrastructure, you might look into Patzcuaro. For information on that area, check out "Palomares" postings and the websites he refers to.


Thank you for the kind plug. But remember we are Lakeside Two now. It is official. I personally made it so.

My lovely wife and I just returned this afternoon from a couple of days in San Miguel. Day before yesterday, I got a bug in my britches, thought about Pozos, and we decided to head over there. It was about 5 p.m.

After driving toward Pozos for about 40 minutes, and not knowing how far it really is, we pulled into a Pemex and asked. The folks there put their collective noodles together and decided it was about "another hour."

We turned around and headed back to SMA.

Now, I see we were almost there. I love Mexico.

From Tzurumutaro, Michoacan, "The Village of the Darned."
_______________________________________

The nuts and bolts of moving to Mexico:
http://michaeldickson.blogspot.com/
The dark side of living in Mexico:
http://mexicopeeks.blogspot.com/
Scintillating life in a Mexican pueblo:
http://tzurumutaro.blogspot.com/
http://tzurumutaro2.blogspot.com/


Chumley

Aug 24, 2005, 5:16 AM

Post #21 of 23 (2841 views)

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Re: [palomares] Pozos

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Glad to have you back, Palomares. It may be too soon to celebrate, but I'm sorry that you didn't look me up when you were here in SMA to toss back a few glasses of wine (or in your case, good grape juice). Next time you head this way, send me a PM.


Gringal

Aug 24, 2005, 7:45 AM

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Re: [palomares] Pozos

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Forget "Lakeside II". You've been merged with SMA. It's time to march forth as "Patzquaro and Proud". Anyway, the original "Lakeside II" is in Orange County, CA, an area to which we were once exiled in the interests of commerce. The developers dozed out a ten foot depression in the ground, lined it in plastic and put fancy houses all 'round. The female denizens of the lake wore diamond tennis bracelets and scooted around the waterways in electric motorboats. The lake was stocked with big-mouthed bass and misguided ducks flew in to nest. The bass ate the baby ducks.

Pozos: 45 minutes from San Miguel, but I wouldn't recommended going there after 5 p.m. The ghosts come out at dark and dance the fandango in the village square.


Bubba

Aug 24, 2005, 6:02 PM

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Re: [Gringal] Pozos

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I really like that Orange County story, Gringal. Turn key development with Stepford Wives and large mouth bass thrown in just there for the taking and they will even bait the hook for you.

This reminds me of the nouveau riche Blackhawk Development in Contra Costa County, California where developers built this fantasyland of oversized "mansions" on smallish lots (so everybody could see everybody else's Maserati pull into the garage with the requisite bimbo sitting next to the Captain of Industry or new rich sports superstar. These mansions were furnished right down to the designer toilet paper and - here is my favorite - for a price, they would furnish you a diverse library full on the finest books, new and used, so it would appear that you may have actually read some of them. For a monthly fee, they would even come in and refresh your supply of strategically placed coffee table books and give you a synopsis of what the book was all about so you could discuss it intellegently.

What had reminded us of Blackhawk today is that we visited a very fancy furniture store near the exclusive Bugumbillas subdivision in Guadalajara and were struck by the fact that all of the furniture was oversized and swanky, if traditional, leather and, after a while, we realized it all looked the same and suddenly I was transported back in time to Blackhawk, circa 1985 and some rich client of mine with more money than brains was showing me his home and going, "Look at that Bubba, they's over 10,000 volumes in my libairy and I swear to God one day I'm gonna aread 'em all."

Bankers have to kiss a lot of ass.
 
 
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