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Roses5410


Jul 7, 2005, 7:27 PM

Post #1 of 22 (1912 views)

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From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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We are leaving soon from Ajijic and going to Patzcuaro. I know of the toll road you take out of Guadalajara, but isn't there any other road that takes you to Patzcuaro that is possibly a shorter distance (even though it may take longer because it is on a libramiento)?

I've read where you shouldn't take the Ocotlan road. Is the La Barca road the same road? Doesn't it take you right into Quiroga instead of having to go through Morelia?

...first time we've driven it ourselves....

Thanks..
I love taking pictures...check out my prints for sale @ http://Rosacalaca.dpcprints.com/

jennifer rose

Jul 7, 2005, 9:11 PM

Post #2 of 22 (1901 views)

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Re: [Roses5410] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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Yes, you can take old 15, which meanders through Zamora and Zacapu and on to Quiroga and Morelia. It's a two-lane scenic route, frustrated by trucks and buses, and you'll make no time. You'll thank the makers of the cuota when you're done, believe me.

If you want to combine scenery with driving pleasure, take the cuota only as far as the Zacapu exit, turning south and then on to Quiroga, then south to Patzcuaro. There's another road from Zacapu to Erongaricuaro, which you could then take to Patzcuaro.

I've heard others whine and rail against the Ocotlan road, and their concerns are misplaced. It's a two-lane blacktop through ag country, which means some slowdowns, but it's not the end of the world.

For more, or at least until you can look at a roadmap, see http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/michoacan/mapmichoacan.html

Roses5410


Jul 8, 2005, 5:16 AM

Post #3 of 22 (1890 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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Thank you Jennifer Rose....That "half and half" route sounds nice for our purpose. I'm really for getting there as quickly as possible but we will have guests with us, some of whom have never seen Mexico, and I know they would be pleased with the scenic route scenery.

-K-
I love taking pictures...check out my prints for sale @ http://Rosacalaca.dpcprints.com/

esperanza

Jul 8, 2005, 5:46 AM

Post #4 of 22 (1883 views)

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Re: [Roses5410] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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I frequently--as often as every few weeks--drive from Guadalajara to Pátzcuaro. I have not used the toll road for several years. Yes, it's faster than the libre by about an hour. It's also as dull as any North of the Border Interstate highway and quite expensive.

The libre is interesting and beautiful to drive. The road to Ocotlán is excellent. It's a broad-shouldered wide two lane road that's used, at times, as a three-lane road, with passing right down the center line. It does bear watchfulness as you drive along, but I've never noticed any cause for alarm.

Past Ocotlán, you'll drive along the far eastern shore of Lake Chapala through Jamay and on to La Barca, where you cross the state line into Michoacán. You pass through several towns before you come to the Zamora libramiento. Once past Zamora, you drive through the area known as Once Pueblos (Eleven Towns) and then come into the hilly, twisting, and gorgeous road that brings you to Quiroga, where you turn onto the road that takes you toward Pátzcuaro.

The portion of the trip from Zamora to Pátzcuaro is stunningly beautiful. You and your guests will be able to see the changes in topography and flora that mark the differences between this area of Jalisco and the Zona Lacustre (Lake Zone) of Michoacán.

I can't think of a single reason to take the cuota (toll road). IMHO, saving an hour isn't worth losing the opportunity to see the beauty of this area as I drive to and from Pátzcuaro.




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jennifer rose

Jul 8, 2005, 6:48 AM

Post #5 of 22 (1868 views)

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Re: [esperanza] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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Esperanza typeth:

"I can't think of a single reason to take the cuota (toll road). IMHO, saving an hour isn't worth losing the opportunity to see the beauty of this area as I drive to and from Pátzcuaro."

Well, I can think of more than few. How about safety, for starters? The abundant natural beauty isn't enough to compensate me for the loss of sanity not being able to pass a slow-moving vehicle.

Nu, cuota traverses some boring terrain? Si, it's important for tourists to know that Mexico isn't all one bucolic vista after another. That's open land, land as far as the eye can see, the landscapes that made settlers venture westward out there in the middle of the nowhere the cuota cuts across. Gimme the open highway, the cuota, any day of the week.


esperanza

Jul 8, 2005, 8:00 AM

Post #6 of 22 (1860 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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That's why it was IMHO. Cada quien, żno?

Your mileage (in this case literally) may vary.




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Bubba

Jul 8, 2005, 3:23 PM

Post #7 of 22 (1831 views)

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Re: [Roses5410] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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Actually, Roses, I must add my two centavos to the Jennifer/Esperanza debate here. If you are going to go the free route to Patzcuara from Ajijic I suggest you head for Jocotepec and take the southern route around Lake Chapala which is quite beautiful, especially during the rainy season. The Chapala-Ocotlan highway is an atrocity through plain and uninteresting territory. It is also the reason Mexico should never broaden its highways since it is a particularly dangerous stretch of road inviting to scofflaws.

I'm about to get into trouble here but I assert that the countryside between Chapala and Patzcuaro whether on the free or pay road is no great shakes unless one is particularly taken with scrub pine trees and ugly hardscrabble villages. Now, if you get off those main roads and head for the back country, Western Michoacan can be stunning.

Bubba recommends:

Highway 15 around the south side of the lake to Tanagancicuaro (AKA Taqanguinawhatchamacallit) and a side trip to Ocumicho and Patamban and back to Highway 15 to Highway 37 south to Uruapan and then the free road through beautiful highland pine forests to Patzcuaro. I defy Esperanza or Jennifer to confront Bubba on this.

A bit of local folk wisdom:

As one passes through the seemingly prosperous farming burg of Taganquicuaro (or, whatever), one will be hard pressed to see the turnoff to the splendid indigenous village of Ocumicho. It is here that one will encounter the common Mexican phenomenon of "misplaced signage". I highly recommend that, once one has exited the main highway, one stop at the first cluster of stores and houses and inquire as to the way to Ocumicho. Local folks will be more than happy to tell you how to get to Ocumicho. A couple of miles up the Ocumicho highway, one will see the sign that reads, "Ocumicho". We call these "comfort" signs. They inform you that you did, indeed, make the right decision. Assuming you made the wrong decision, eventually, the road will peter out and become an impassable trail. If you have lived here for over a year, you will find this amusing unless it has become dark and you are being followed by a car full of local thugs intent on separating you from your property. That is not amusing.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Jul 8, 2005, 3:25 PM)

esperanza

Jul 8, 2005, 4:21 PM

Post #8 of 22 (1818 views)

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Re: [Bubba] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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Bubba's route is certainly an alternative. It will take quite a while, though. Much depends on the amount of time you want to devote to simply getting to Pátzcuaro.

Old oaks bordering the libre from Zamora, wild orchids hanging from the trees, tier after tier of misty mountains and extinct volcanos are not "scrub pine trees and ugly hardscrabble villages". Mrs. Bubba must have driven the free road while Bubba slept the sleep of the just.

The Meseta Purhépecha along the route of los Once Pueblos is far from uninteresting. However, it helps to know what it is you're seeing. To the uninformed eye, everything can look the same. Even Pátzcuaro can seem uninteresting--just another town full of tourist wares and churches--if you don't know how to look below the surface. There are things to see and know that no guidebook will tell you.

If you care to go to Ocumicho and Patamban using the libre, the turnoff to those towns is on the road between Zamora and Chilchota, as you pass by Tangancícuaro. It's quite well marked. I was there two weeks ago.




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jennifer rose

Jul 9, 2005, 6:33 PM

Post #9 of 22 (1775 views)

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Re: [Bubba] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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The south side of Lake Chapala is very interesting, mostly because it leads to Sahuayo and Jiquilpan. Along 15, it is interesting to notice that the town statue progresses from Lazaro Cardenas to Tata Vasco. But I still wouldn't make a habit of taking the scenic route -- more than twice.

Bubba, I've taken that trail leading south from Ocumicho. It was a perfectly fine road....until I began to wonder if the road had come to an end, was concerned that I didn't gave enough gas to make my way back north, and had only the option of forging ahead in the same direction because there was no place to turn around. I finally reached a burg calling itself "San Ysidro," and at the abarrote specializing in Ramen soup, I asked the distance to the next town, or at least a Pemex station. Two and a half days, I was told. Well, maybe she meant two and a half hours. Just the same, I kept going in the same direction.....until I hit a plain fully as exciting as Kansas. And Charapan, a not uninteresing old town. Not Carapan, mind you. And then San Felipe. And finally, a shroud of dust coating the Suburban, the road to Uruapan.
Dangerous? Nah. No more so than any small Midwestern town.

esperanza

Jul 9, 2005, 7:44 PM

Post #10 of 22 (1767 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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I drove the so-called road from Cocucho to Ocumicho once several years ago, during August, when it was nothing but a rut--and a water-filled rut, at that. Absolutely beautiful...completely fascinating...and I'd do it again if I needed to--but I wouldn't make it a special trip.




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Bubba

Jul 10, 2005, 9:43 AM

Post #11 of 22 (1748 views)

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Re: [esperanza] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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I'm the only Hardleg who has the nerve to take on these two broads. Shame on you wimpy guys. I'm a sonofabitch if I'm going to buy this.

Actually: More Later!

sciman

Jul 11, 2005, 8:31 PM

Post #12 of 22 (1653 views)

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Re: [Bubba] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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I'm loving it. Got an old VW bus with a top that pops, so bouncing down the highway looking for adventure is a thrill. Thoroughly dug the south side of the lake, walking piers in the early morning sun, wandering through great markets, meandering towards Mazamitla. We were on vacation, so when we get slowed down, we're just glad that we got started early in the day. We pay for medication to deal with blood pressure so try not to get over-stressed in some desperate effort to save minutes off the clock. I suppose one could be concerned with road safety and not feeling too comfortable with the non-expats in the neighborhood.. but walking down the streets of those villages I kept meeting knowing smiles and finding myself chatting up dudes just back from Santa Monica or some other shared California experience.

Miguel Palomares


Jul 12, 2005, 4:07 PM

Post #13 of 22 (1614 views)

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Re: [Roses5410] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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I'm the only Hardleg who has the nerve to take on these two broads?

Ms. Rose is no broad. She is a babe. I do not know about Esperanza.

I live in Patzcuaro, the destination of the original poster. I urge her to believe this is the best route:

From Ocotlan, take the autopista to the Morelia exit. On hitting the northern portion of the libramiento in Morelia, head right. There is, I believe, a sign that says Patzcuaro. Continue around the western side of Morelia till you see the Patzcuaro exit. Another clear sign is there.

Getting off the autopista prematurely, before getting to the Morelia exit, is an error of major proportions that many make and recommend. I did it both ways just last April. The autopista route is far quicker, less trouble, just as pretty. The other route is a time-consuming, tractor-trailer-exhaust-inhaling, potholed drag. Trust me.

And the tolls are not that bad. Money well spent.
From Tzurumutaro, Michoacan, "The Village of the Darned."
_______________________________________

The nuts and bolts of moving to Mexico:
http://michaeldickson.blogspot.com/
The dark side of living in Mexico:
http://mexicopeeks.blogspot.com/
Scintillating life in a Mexican pueblo:
http://tzurumutaro.blogspot.com/
http://tzurumutaro2.blogspot.com/

(This post was edited by palomares on Jul 12, 2005, 4:09 PM)

aatapia

Jul 17, 2005, 4:26 PM

Post #14 of 22 (1535 views)

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Re: [palomares] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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How long does this route take? Also, there are buses from Guadalajara to Uruapan and Patzcuaro - can anyone tell me how long that ride is ?
Gracias, ANDREA
ANDREA

esperanza

Jul 17, 2005, 5:32 PM

Post #15 of 22 (1522 views)

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Re: [aatapia] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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It's about four hours from Ajijic to Pátzcuaro via the cuota, a bit longer via the libre.

Buses run from the new bus station in Tonalá to both Uruapan and Pátzcuaro. Either route takes about four hours. The trip from Ajijic to Tonalá is a little less than one hour by taxi or private car.




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Miguel Palomares


Jul 17, 2005, 5:45 PM

Post #16 of 22 (1519 views)

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Re: [aatapia] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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There you go. Esperanza beat me to it. However, the countryside route recommended by some is not just a little longer. It can be an hour to 90 minutes longer, depending on traffic.

And it is a nasty hour longer, too. The almost-total autopista route is nice.

From Tzurumutaro, Michoacan, "The Village of the Darned."
_______________________________________

The nuts and bolts of moving to Mexico:
http://michaeldickson.blogspot.com/
The dark side of living in Mexico:
http://mexicopeeks.blogspot.com/
Scintillating life in a Mexican pueblo:
http://tzurumutaro.blogspot.com/
http://tzurumutaro2.blogspot.com/

aatapia

Jul 17, 2005, 7:34 PM

Post #17 of 22 (1503 views)

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Re: [esperanza] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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Muchos gracias, Esperanza y Palomares !!!
That info is so valuable to me!
Do you recommend any particular bus line?
I"ve found two, ETN y Flecha Amarilla - Primera Plus.
The cost seems reasonable.
ANDREA
ANDREA

cristalhombre


Jul 18, 2005, 10:38 AM

Post #18 of 22 (1475 views)

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Re: [aatapia] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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ETN is the way to go from my experience. Great service, clean and very comfortable coaches. I have used them on three different trips. I don't believe they have an active website to buy tickets or view schedules, at least they didn't in 2004.





"NOT ALL WHO WANDER ARE LOST...."

toddmc


Jul 18, 2005, 1:24 PM

Post #19 of 22 (1455 views)

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Re: [cristalhombre] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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ETN Website


http://www.etn.com.mx


We have also found ETN great!

Todd

*************************
Our new life in Patzcuaro: http://lifeinthecorazon.blogspot.com


Roses5410


Jul 29, 2005, 7:26 PM

Post #20 of 22 (1370 views)

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Re: [esperanza] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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Esperanza, we decided to take your advice and use the libramientos instead of the cuotas (save a bit of money that way too). We left at 8:30am and arrived at 1:30 pm....of course what I had not mentioned earlier was that I was one of two vehicles - the other was an RV. So we drove a little more slowly than normal.

My friends said it was the perfect choice of route. They loved the scenery and enjoyed seeing the people and animals milling about the villages...

On the way home it took us the same amount of time as it did to get there - 5 hrs. and that was driving mostly 40 and 50 mph....I really enjoyed it myself.

Just wanted to let you know you gave us excellent advice, as I knew you would! :)

-K-
I love taking pictures...check out my prints for sale @ http://Rosacalaca.dpcprints.com/

esperanza

Jul 29, 2005, 10:09 PM

Post #21 of 22 (1356 views)

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Re: [Roses5410] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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Thank you very much for the followup post--it means a lot to hear that you and your travel companions loved the route.

I always look forward to driving that way--try it again in September, when the hills are full of wild cosmos, or in November, when the wild orchids are in bloom in the trees.

I'm so glad your trip was successful.




http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com








Bubba

Jul 30, 2005, 11:04 AM

Post #22 of 22 (1327 views)

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Re: [esperanza] From Ajijic to Patzcuaro

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OK, Esperanza:

Maybe the hardscrabble village and pine tree remark was uncalled for and I never said it. I do think someone has accessed my personal Bubba Code and is trying to discredit me.
 
 
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