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Carron

May 24, 2005, 9:26 AM

Post #1 of 16 (1670 views)

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Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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In the years I have lived in Mexico I have always used a very simple 2-burner counter top stove. Of course they use butane gas. I am not a baker and rarely miss having an oven, but Hubby in his old age would like to bake an occasional pan of cornbread. So he wants to buy a better stove.

I have a couple of questions. (1) I have never really been able to get a high, hot blue flame in my stoves. Not like the natural gas flames I was accustomed to in Texas. The exterior of all my ollas and cazuelas are coated in black soot. The more gas I turn on, the more orange and dirty it burns. Would a more expensive free-standing stove improve the heat or just add more luke warm flames under additional burners?? (2) Since butane gas is expensive and getting more so each time we refill our tanks, will the gas needed to operate an oven break my limited budget?? And (3) would the internal temp of the oven actually get high enough to bake anything??

We live at an altitude of only about 1000 feet, so I don't think that would be a contributing problem as in other higher parts of Mexico. I welcome your suggestions.

As an additional aside, having to use limited volume tanks of butane gas, which always burn empty when I am in the middle of an important or complicated preparation, is one of the things I have personally had the most problems adjusting to since I moved here.

Bubba

May 24, 2005, 10:09 AM

Post #2 of 16 (1661 views)

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Re: [Carron] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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We live at 5,000 feet and use a CORIAT commercial stove with six burners and a restaurant quality broiler. We cook with propane. We also cooked with propane in California as we were in the country and had no access to natural gas. Unless one is lucky enough to live along the new natural gas line in Guadalajara, propane is about it. We do get a healthy blue flame with our CORIAT but it seems to us that it doesn't hold up to natural gas. When my momma-in-law fires up that tiny little natural gas stove at her home in the Loire Valley in France, you could cook a horse on the flame.

I don't think one can achieve the heat of natural gas with propane. We have never reached that goal but for Mexican manufactured commercial type stoves and ovens, CORIAT seems to be pretty good. They are also expensive however. They have a web site and you should be able to find a distributor in your nearest large city if you are interested.

(This post was edited by Bubba on May 24, 2005, 10:10 AM)

Carol Schmidt

May 24, 2005, 10:35 AM

Post #3 of 16 (1657 views)

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Re: [Carron] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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We bought a new Mabe six burner because the stove that came with our casa shot flames out the sides when you lit it with matches and the oven couldn't be made to work at all.

Mosquetas, which may be a chain or may be specific to San Miguel, had a sale on so we got our beauty, glistening in black, for around $500 US. There's a comal sort of flat grill to go over the two middle burners, and the oven racks come out automatically when the oven door is opened.

Norma cranks it up to 550 F when she bakes pizzas and some breads, and has no trouble getting high flames and heat unless we're low on propane. We have a big tank on our roof and we always have it refilled when Norma is about to do a lot of baking. Once we had a pizza party with a low propane level and everything was soggy and pale.

I don't know the difference betwen butane and propane in how it affects stove functioning so maybe this doesn't apply to you. Can you get propane deliveries where you are? I don't see any difference between the propane here and the natural gas we've had in the States.

Carol Schmidt

Esteban

May 24, 2005, 11:11 AM

Post #4 of 16 (1652 views)

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Re: [Carron] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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We use one of those little stove top units and like any gas stove, the air mixture has to be adjusted correctly. Also, many of the parts become rusted and don't function correctly. You can also buy bigger burner units...they are rated in BTU's I have a portable stove that has two 30,000 BTU burners. Heat? no problem. Take your stove to one of those stove stores that sell all the parts. Let them adjust it, maybe sell you a bigger burner and if nothing else, let them check it out. You may even have a leak that could be dangerous.

Rolly

May 24, 2005, 2:15 PM

Post #5 of 16 (1636 views)

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Re: [Esteban] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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I agree with Esteban. Your "stove" needs some attention.

I also use a two-burner counter top unit. I would certainly have a 6-burner stove if I had the space. Not because I do that much cooking, but because the regular stove just works better than my small counter top unit.

But if all you want is to make cornbread, an electric fry pan with a dome lid will work just fine.

Rolly Pirate

Carron

May 25, 2005, 7:27 AM

Post #6 of 16 (1611 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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Thanks for the suggestions. All the gas trucks here (and when we were in Chiapas) had butano written on them, so I have always assumed that's what we get for our pesos.

What really prompted my question, other than the cornbread which we will try in an electric skillet, was when I tried to reduce a large pot of chicken stock the other day and it just wouldn't happen for me!

I will also send Hubby to a ferreteria for upgrade stove parts. He lives to shop and will fully enjoy himself.

Cynthia7

May 25, 2005, 7:55 AM

Post #7 of 16 (1605 views)

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Re: [Carron] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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It is my understanding that butane and propane are both liquid petroleum gas. The amount of heat depends on your equipment. The temperature depends on your altitude. The solution is to cook longer at higher altitude because it doesn't get as hot. A 3 minute egg may be a 5 minute egg at 6500 feet.

wyhaines

May 27, 2005, 6:07 AM

Post #8 of 16 (1556 views)

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Re: [Cynthia7] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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Propane is C3H8, and Butane is C4H10 (3 carbon, 8 hydrogen; 4 carbon, 10 hydrogen, respectively)

They are very close to eachother with regard to the total amount of energy output from combustion, but because butane is heavier than propane, it boils at a higher (much higher) temperature, and that is the main drawback.

Propane boils at about -42C, or close to -44F. Butane boils at about -.5C, or about 31F. If the gas is below its boiling point, you won't have sufficient vapor pressure in your tank to deliver the fuel, as a gas, to your appliance. Where this can become really important is when the tank is small (i.e. it doesn't have a lot of thermal mass itself) and/or when the ambient temperature around the tank is already low. As the liquid in the tank boils, and the vapor is siphoned off to burn in your appliance, the temperature of the remaining liquid in the tank drops (the liquid above the boiling point will give up its energy to form vapor until the liquid's temperature, as a whole, drops below the boiling point, so without sufficient heat input, boiling liquid quickly releases energy if allowed to do so). If the fuel in the tank drops below the boiling point, the vapor pressure will drop very fast, and you will no longer be getting an adequate flow of fuel.

If you stove is giving you a weak, smokey flame right from the start of use, though, the problem is more likely in your equipment, I would think. You should be able to get close to the same energy output from a butane burner as a propane one, if your tank isn't too cold and your equipment is working right.

Kirk Haines (living in a house that was butane heated originally, but now burns propane)

Cynthia7

May 27, 2005, 7:58 AM

Post #9 of 16 (1539 views)

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Re: [wyhaines] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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Thank you for that good piece of info. Are Butane and Propane both available in Mexico? I'm from natural gas country in the US so this is pretty new to me. LP gas is used where there is no natural gas service or in your outdoor cooker. In Arkansas there are places or were where you could put a pipe in the ground and have gas. That is probably not permitted now but as a child I can remember when it was done. Thank goodness where I live in Mexico we only need gas for cooking and hot water. In Arkansas we need it for heating, cooling and cooking.

wyhaines

May 27, 2005, 8:28 AM

Post #10 of 16 (1535 views)

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Re: [Cynthia7] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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I have no firsthand idea of the availability of propane in Mexico, as I live in southeastern Wyoming.

My impression from my reading, through, is that butane is mostly used. This is probably because the ambient temperatures in most of Mexico, most of the time, are high enough that the higher boiling poing of butane isn't such a big deal, especially since it's not used for home heating (i.e. you aren't burning a lot of it, quickly, for extended periods of time, in already cold weather), and butane is cheaper and easier to handle.

LP gas in the US is basically just propane. In other parts of the world Liquified Petroleum Gas may be mixture of butane, propane, ethane, and methane ("natural gas" is methane, and has 1 carbon, ethane has 2 carbons, propane has 3, and butane has 4).

Kirk Haines

(This post was edited by wyhaines on May 27, 2005, 8:29 AM)

Carron

May 27, 2005, 11:52 AM

Post #11 of 16 (1519 views)

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Re: [wyhaines] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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We also use the gas butano for heating our house in the winter, as do many of our neighbors. Just a couple of the old-fashioned heaters with the open flame and easy-to-break ceramic flame diffusers that glow red. And on cold days, our gas tanks (45 kilos each) empty quickly! I did notice on the cardboard boxes our heaters came in that there were little boxes checked beside either "gas butano" or "gas natural". Ours were checked for butano.

MG Rabon

May 28, 2005, 9:12 AM

Post #12 of 16 (1493 views)

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Re: [wyhaines] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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Butane is a domestic product. Propane would have to be imported from the USA. While I have heard the gas we have delivered to us referred to by many different names, I'm pretty sure it's just Butane.

It sounds like your stove needs repair or adjustment.

As butane has such a high boiling point, if you live in an area where it gets below freezing (does it do so anywhere in Mexico?) you need to either use a tank warming blanket, or keep your tank in a 'tank house', or you won't have any gaseous butane to burn in your heater.

Compórtate bien, y si no puedes, invítame!
MG Rabon

Rolly

May 28, 2005, 9:40 AM

Post #13 of 16 (1487 views)

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Re: [MG Rabon] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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"if you live in an area where it gets below freezing (does it do so anywhere in Mexico?) "

Absolutely. Even snow is common in parts of northern Mexico.

Rolly Pirate

MG Rabon

May 28, 2005, 10:29 AM

Post #14 of 16 (1480 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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I have indeed seen snow in Mexico, I've hit it several times on the highway near Saltillo on the trip down. I was unsure, however, if it ever stuck as my outside temp reading was 34-35 during my snow experiences. Must be a function of elevation though as my hometown in Florida is north of 99% of Mexico, and it doesn't snow.

The area where I hit the snow on the highway appeared to be uninhabited, as did the over 10,000 ft areas on the road from Cuernavaca to Toluca. I guess it was a dumb comment as I have seen snow covered peaks in Mexico, I probably should have asked if there were any actual inhabited places where it regularly gets sub 32 degrees.

What do they use for heat?

Compórtate bien, y si no puedes, invítame!
MG Rabon

Carron

May 28, 2005, 2:03 PM

Post #15 of 16 (1464 views)

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Re: [MG Rabon] Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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Yes, it often gets below freezing here in Cd. Acuna and we frequently have sleet. A couple of years ago it snowed and actually stuck on the ground. Our elevation is only around 1000 feet above sea level. Most houses are cement block, uninsulated, with cement floors. Single pane windows which we often cover from inside with a sheet of thick Styrofoam.

As I mentioned a couple of posts up, we have two small open flame butane heaters connected by flexible hosing to an outside tank. (I know this is dangerous, but this is the way it is done in most houses here.) The main way we keep warm is with extra blankets and thick socks. No kidding!

sfmacaws

May 28, 2005, 11:33 PM

Post #16 of 16 (1439 views)

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Re: Should I Buy a New Kitchen Stove??

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What is sold as Propane in the US and Butano or Gas in MX is almost always a mixture. In MX, it is generally more butane since most of MX is warm enough for the boiling point not to be a problem. In the US, the mixtures vary by region and even by season and this may also be the case in northern MX or at high altitudes where it does get very cold in the winter.

In Yuma you will get a predominantly butane mixture year round, in Flagstaff they may start selling a higher propane mix in the fall until spring. They burn the same but butane is cheaper to manufacture.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán