Forums > General > Living, Working, Retiring

Professor

May 23, 2005, 2:11 PM

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Living in D.F.

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Good afternoon all,

I've noticed that most people here haven't chosen D.F. as a place to retire in. Any particular reason? I'll be moving there later this year, not to retire but to work. But I'm curious as to why no one seems to live there from this website.
Is it a lot more expensive? To big or just to much crime?? Just curious since I'll be living there later on this year.

Thanks.

John

esperanza

May 23, 2005, 2:20 PM

Post #2 of 23 (2064 views)

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Re: [jfurgers] Living in D.F.

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I love the DF and were it not for several things that tie me to the Guadalajara area, I would gladly live there.

Yes, the population is huge, the traffic is horrendous, etc. But oh, the electricity of living in a city like that! It's New York City, San Francisco, Paris, Florence, Athens and Rome--all rolled into one.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Gary Anderson

May 23, 2005, 2:41 PM

Post #3 of 23 (2058 views)

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Re: [jfurgers] Living in D.F.

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I've only been to DF a couple of times and found it a fascinating place, but intimidating at the same time. For one thing, it's huge; I've seen population estimates as high as 28 million, and the traffic there is completely insane. Like all large cities, it has much to offer, but demands much from its residents. Mexicanos I know who have lived there tell me that it can be a dangerous place for the unwary.

As an old country boy, it's just too big for me, and the more bucolic lifestyle in the Ajijic area suits me much better, but none of this will keep me from visiting there again. That said, you couldn't pay me enough to live in DF, especially since I'm retired and nowadays consider "work" to be among the most foul of four-letter words.

GA
____________________________________________________________
"There was only one catch and that was Catch-22 . . . ." - Joseph Heller

MARIA CUERVA

May 23, 2005, 3:14 PM

Post #4 of 23 (2045 views)

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Re: [jfurgers] Living in D.F.

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Almost all of my family live in D.F. Everyone of them has been held up at gunpoint and robbed. Some have been carjacked. 2 of them in the same family have been hit by cars and killed a block from their home.
It is a very exciting city. You feel like you are at the center of the world. And the museums,the murals,the colonial architecture,the Azteca empesada y fin del mundo! It is a filthy city. after 2 weeks your skin becomes stained a grey color. Last time I was there,last year, I was almost killed while waiting for a bus. A car came careening around the Blvd out of control. If I and the other people hadn't been able to move fast enough we would have been killed or permanently injured. The sense of the neighborhoods is disappearing. Only 2 of my family members has been able to make it out. So in this sense it acts as a vortex. I regretted not going to the Tamayo exhibit in March. I will go to visit my mother's grave,go to the museums to see the amazing archeological exhibits and art exhibits. But to live there is to see that people only need food and water to survive.

(This post was edited by cuerva on May 23, 2005, 3:15 PM)

Bubba

May 23, 2005, 3:16 PM

Post #5 of 23 (2042 views)

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Re: [Gary Anderson] Living in D.F.

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I would live in DF in a DF second if I had the money. Maybe I do have the money. The hell with El Rancho Grande (Guadalajara, also known as DF, Junior) . The town is alive and wild and on edge. What more do you want in a city? A magnificent burg.

If this town kills me it will simply be changing the way I exit the planet.

This is the truth. You can live in DF for a price not that much more than what you would pay in Guadalajara, the Fresno of Mexico.

(This post was edited by Bubba on May 23, 2005, 3:22 PM)

raferguson

May 23, 2005, 3:22 PM

Post #6 of 23 (2036 views)

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Re: [jfurgers] Living in D.F.

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I did not notice anyone mentioning the polution. My wife cannot spend more than two days in the DF before she starts to cough.

The crime is the other obvious downside, study up on taxi robberies so that you do not become a victim. I take security precautions in the DF that I take in no other place I have ever visited.

I like the DF for short visits, but would not live there for double my income.

Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

gpk

May 23, 2005, 3:26 PM

Post #7 of 23 (2030 views)

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Re: [jfurgers] Living in D.F.

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I have visited DF many, many times and, luckily it seems, have never been robbed or kidnapped. I have one friend who was kidnapped, and I have some Mexican friends who will no longer even visit Mexico City. Friends who moved out of DF often complain of the impossiblity of a comfortable, safe, convenient life there. It is dangerous in a sort of random, chaotic way--which makes it different from many other great cities such as NYC or London. I never feel completely comfortable walking the streets in DF, even in the daytime. I never felt that way when I lived in NYC. Besides the danger, the bad air is a very serious health concern.

Bubba

May 23, 2005, 3:29 PM

Post #8 of 23 (2028 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Living in D.F.

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I understand the pollution in Guadalajara is worse than DF and you ain't got nothing to show for it except stale tortillas . Most of the other cities in Mexico are like Topeka. Once you've seen the courthouse you can kiss your ass goodbye.

MARIA CUERVA

May 23, 2005, 3:47 PM

Post #9 of 23 (2016 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Living in D.F.

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I did mention the grey tinge that covers your skin. What I did not mention is that too many of my family members have died of heart and lung disease and now cancer is a component. Nobody seems able to get out but they're not delusional as to what is killing them. Another very important aspect is depression mostly masquerading as alcoholism,drug abuse and of course violence. I forgot the terrible violence of car accidents. My daughter is married to a man in Mexico city. They are separated. She figures he'll die so she doesn't have to bother to divorce him. Since they separated he has been in 2 very serious car accidents injuring himself permanently and almost killing his 4 yr old son.It's just a matter of time.

(This post was edited by cuerva on May 23, 2005, 3:51 PM)

Papirex

May 23, 2005, 4:07 PM

Post #10 of 23 (2007 views)

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Re: [jfurgers] Living in D.F.

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There are a few Mexconnect members living in Mexico City, they don’t post often, I don’t believe any of them are retired, maybe a few of them are though. My wife and I did live in Mexico D.F. for about a year after retirement, Mexico D.F. is her hometown. We were making it our headquarters while we were deciding where we wanted to spend the rest of our lives.

There are many things to consider when choosing a place to retire to. Neither one of us considered Mexico City to be a place conducive to a pleasant retirement.

Mexico City while huge, is a nice City, but like any large city it has its drawbacks. I didn’t find it any more expensive than any other area in Mexico, once you have learned where to shop, etc. There is housing there from super expensive, to reasonable, to dirt cheap. The same goes for dining, and shopping. Driving, while not easy, is manageable once you learn the local rules of the road. Not the driving laws, but the way people drive there.

If you are going to live there, learn all you can about the city from your co-workers. There are some areas that are very nice during the day, but deadly at night, that’s when the robbers go to work. The area around the American Embassy is particularly bad after dark. The Embassy has issued warnings to their employees to be extra alert if they have worked late when they leave to go home, several have been robbed when leaving at night.

I can’t emphasize it enough, learn the city, which areas are safe, and at what times of the day they are not safe, etc. Your Mexican friends will be invaluable for this information. Be sure to ask your friends what the license plate numbers are for legitimate taxicabs. There are only a couple of number series for license plates issued for taxicabs. I have them filed somewhere, I don’t remember where I put them at the moment. Most everybody in Mexico City knows what they are. If you have those numbers you can tell at a glance if a cab is a pirate.

Good luck in your time in Mexico, be sure to eat sometime at The Sanborns in Colonia Narvarte. It’s a little noisy, but the birds are worth it. There is an open aviary at one end of the dining room. The birds fly freely, there are plants and trees in the aviary area. Strangely, they never fly over the dining area. They have a loft above the dining room, later at night, you won’t see any of the birds, they hit the sack early. An American Public Health Department would have a cow if they saw those birds in a dining area. I like them, it’s kind of nice to watch them flying around while we are eating.

The birds were not enough to make me want to retire in Mexico City though.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

jennifer rose

May 23, 2005, 4:47 PM

Post #11 of 23 (1996 views)

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Re: [jfurgers] Living in D.F.

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I'd live in D.F. in a heartbeat --- if I had enough money to live in Lomas Chapultepec. Or even Polanco. It's truly one of the greatest cities in the world. But I'd need a second home in Valle de Bravo.

Ed and Fran

May 23, 2005, 4:49 PM

Post #12 of 23 (1996 views)

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Re: [RexC] Living in D.F.

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Lived in the D.F. twice when I was still working and assigned to projects in Mexico, first in '92-'94, and again in '96-'97. Absolutely loved it. If I were still working, and we had a chance to go back, we would be there in a heartbeat.

Sure you need to be careful. We have friends who have been mugged or "express" kidnapped. Yeah, the traffic can be tough until you know your way around and start to understand the unwritten traffic rules. Big cities are kind of like that.

Neither Fran nor I were bothered by the pollution. She did think it was a bit too dry and a bit chilly, but then again she's used to the climate down here on the Veracruz coast. I was in hog heaven with the climate there.

We didn't find it that expensive, but things could have changed in 8 years. I doubt that it's changed that much because we do try to get back there several times a year for a visit, or passing through, although I haven't checked rents lately.

As I've said before, we didn't consider it for retirement because we decided early on to be close to Fran's family here in Tuxpan. We really didn't do a real search or comparison of places. We probably wouldn't have opted for the D.F. itself for retirement in any case. But that's just because living there, as in any really big city, requires a bit more expenditure of energy than simply living out here in the 'Lesser Provinces'.

Regards

Ed & Fran

Ed and Fran

May 23, 2005, 4:51 PM

Post #13 of 23 (1994 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Living in D.F.

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J.R. I'd live in D.F. in a heartbeat...

Hey, that's my line. No fair that you wrote a shorter post and got it posted a few seconds ahead of me!!! :-)

E & F

Bubba

May 23, 2005, 5:19 PM

Post #14 of 23 (1979 views)

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Re: [jfurgers] Living in D.F.

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I think you requirements change when you retire so you may love the excitement but require a little more quiet time.
I you want to live in any large city in the middle of the action you have to learn to accept the crime, polution, noise, lack of space etc
There is no doubt that polution is dangerous for your health: I was raised in Paris in the 40's and 50's and my lungs were as filthy as a miner's lungs by the time I was 7. I had to be sent to a Sanatorium for 2 years to recuperate. One interresting thing about polution is that I never realized it was there when I was a kid. I will never forget the excitment I felt the first we landed in Mexico City and the plane door was opened: I just loved the smell! It reminded me of Paris when I was a kid.

Bear

May 23, 2005, 5:56 PM

Post #15 of 23 (1972 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Living in D.F.

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I am retired and living just north of DF in Ecatepec De Morelos, but hopefully, not much longer. We are taking serious trips and looks at Queretaro and Lagos de Moreno.
Mr Anderson stated the "traffic is insane" and is master of the understatement. It is horrible!
We have been here one and a half years and smog has not been a problen, ....too far to the north and prevailing winds help us.
Crime is bad, including Polanco, Zoña Rosa, Lindavista, and other "nice" colonias. Kidnappings seem to be the local "fad" crime lately, mainly children for money. Unfortunately, no help will come from the police. Your neighborhood will be your best protection if you are accepted. It is best to stay out of DF for a retirement home. Working teachers may have another type of life.......I dont know.

TigerTonio

May 23, 2005, 6:47 PM

Post #16 of 23 (1949 views)

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Re: [frank fundaro] Living in D.F.

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It's nice to hear from people who have had first-hand experience with living in DF. Strangely enough, over the past six months, I've read several articles in magazines and newspapers -- all of which have given praise to DF for cleaning up its act. Less crime, clearer skies, trendy restaurants and boutique hotels popping up in various neighborhoods. A couple of articles have even given credit to Giuliani for playing a huge part in helping to clean up DF. Is there any truth to these articles? Has there been any improvement at all?

I've been to DF on three occasions and have loved it every time. I think I could stomache living there for a couple of years but eventually would crave less concrete and more green. Heck, I'm doing that already here in Chicago!

The only negative experience I've ever had was driving in DF. I almost checked myself into a mental hospital.

Best, Tony

Papirex

May 23, 2005, 8:09 PM

Post #17 of 23 (1920 views)

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Re: [TigerTonio] Living in D.F.

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I wouldn’t believe any story that reported lowered crime rates in Mexico City. For the last 20 years or so, every year, every mayor and police chief has reported that the crime rate is 20 percent or more lower than the year before. They usually make these announcements just before an election. If their reports were even half true, the robbers would be stopping people on the streets and making them take money.

I don’t think the Giuliani Group did any good as far as improving law enforcement in Mexico City either, although I believe they were sincere in their efforts. They did give a list of recommendations for improvements. The mayor said every one of them would be implemented. I have not heard of a single one of those recommendations being fully implemented yet. Words, but no action again.

The Giuliani Group did come up with some interesting statistics though. The Mexico City police force consists of approximately 80,000 officers. I know that the average size of a police precinct there is approximately 350 officers. That would mean that there are approximately 228 police precincts in Mexico City. The Giuliani Group found that there are only 4,000 police investigators on that force. That would average out to 17 investigators per precinct. They are the only police officers allowed to make any investigations. The Giuliani Group did not find a single computer in any police precinct in Mexico City.

The standards to become a police officer there are pretty high. Only persons that graduated from junior high school may legally become a police officer in Mexico City. Don’t expect too much true law enforcement in Mexico City, or anywhere in Mexico. Basically, you are on your own.

The pollution problems have been dramatically improved in the last 10 to 15 years. In the mid 80s a brown cloud hung over the city almost constantly. At night the street lights looked like they were cutting though a greenish tinted fog. Every time we left the city for a trip, on our return, I would get a splitting headache as soon as we would start down the mountain in to the valley.. When we would get home, I would lay down for 4 or 5 hours, it would go away, and I would feel OK again. I never kidded myself, Mexico City was a very unhealthy place to live then, much worse than it is now.

Mexico City had some of the strictest anti-pollution laws in the world in those days. They were universally ignored. The Hoy No Circula law changed all that, plus the closure of a very badly needed Pemex refinery which used to be located in the city. The main goal of The Hoy No Circula law was to eventually remove approximately 3 million of the older, highest polluting cars from the streets. It did eventually succeed in doing that.

There is still pollution in the city, but it is a vast improvement over the conditions 20 years ago. I agree that Guadalajara seems to be more polluted than Mexico City is whenever we have gone there in recent years. I don’t get a headache there, but I usually end up with a sore throat until we leave Guadalajara.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Bear

May 24, 2005, 6:25 AM

Post #18 of 23 (1871 views)

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Re: [RexC] Living in D.F.

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Rex is very correct. We just returned from a trip to Oklahoma to visit one of my brothers, but before we left several crimes were committed in our neighborhood (Colonia), i.e., one child kidnapped for money & returned, two robberies of local small stores, a microbus passengers robbery, purse snatch (most locals dont carry purses for this reason) and 2 attempted auto thefts. This only in a one month period before I left. Nobody attempted
to call the police, its a waste of time. This all in my local six block colonia! Rateros are everywhere.
I can move and I will, but many are financially stuck here. Very unfortunate. As I said, Mexico City area is not the place to retire......

gpk

May 24, 2005, 7:58 AM

Post #19 of 23 (1848 views)

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I don't think anyone mentioned earthquakes

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I don't think anyone mentioned earthquakes. I believe about 10,000 died in 1985(?)--how long before the next one discovers--again--that somehow the building codes were violated and all those new skyscrapers really couldn't take it.

MG Rabon

May 24, 2005, 9:42 AM

Post #20 of 23 (1822 views)

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Re: [frank fundaro] Living in D.F.

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Wow, all of this is quite shocking. I had thought long and hard about having a townhouse in the Zona Rosa if I could only make the numbers crunch right.

Unsafe? Really? Hmmm, I've wandered all over the Zona at all hours of night, on foot. There are so many cops that it seems you can see one standing on a corner in any direction you look, which made me feel safe. Are you people really suggesting that if someone tried to abduct me, say from in front of the US Embassy, that all those cops would just look the other way and not come to my rescue?

Compórtate bien, y si no puedes, invítame!
MG Rabon

Bear

May 24, 2005, 9:45 AM

Post #21 of 23 (1822 views)

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Re: [MG Rabon] Living in D.F.

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Your bodyguard might help you.

Papirex

May 24, 2005, 10:23 AM

Post #22 of 23 (1804 views)

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Re: [gpk] I don't think anyone mentioned earthquakes

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You’re right Gary, I completely forgot about the 1985 earthquake. My mother-in-laws house was destroyed by it. It delayed my marriage to my wife by most of a year. We were watching TV in Anchorage when the first news of the earthquake was shown. The pictures on the news were of areas about one block from her home in Mexico City.

She immediately wanted to go home to see how her family was. The news reports said that the Mexico City airport had been closed and no one was being allowed to enter the city. I couldn’t dissuade her. She immediately flew to Seattle to join her brother, they were both going home to see if their family survived. Only then did they find out that they couldn’t get any kind of transportation to Mexico City.

It took a few weeks for her Mother to get word to an Uncle in Los Angeles that they were all OK, and had rented a house in the southern part of the city temporarily. Telephone service was seriously disrupted. The Uncle called her brother to tell them the good news. My wife returned to Anchorage, and we were married a little later than we had first planned.

We made a trip to Mexico in December, 1986 so I could meet the rest of her family. It was almost a year and a half after the earthquake had occurred. Temporary shelters had been erected in most of the parks in the city, they were full of refugees. The city was pretty much overwhelmed trying to rebuild infrastructure, refugee shelters, and clear the rubble, there just wasn’t enough resources to do it all at once.

There were collapsed buildings all over the city, including several large luxury hotels. There had been casualties in virtually all of them, many still contained un-recovered bodies. There was one collapsed building a couple of blocks from the family’s destroyed home. The rubble was about as high as a two story building. It had been a 20 story medical clinic. The bodies of approximately 40 people were still under the rubble, mostly nurses.

Building codes are virtually un-enforced in Mexico. I did see several high rise buildings at that time that had the outer walls removed, and the main structural columns were being re-enforced. I don’t know how effective those re-enforcements would be. They were wrapping the existing concrete columns with reinforcing steel, and pouring more concrete to make the columns larger. There had been a lot of progress in the development of chemical bonding agents in recent years, but it seemed to me to be risky to expect effective bonding of a second layer of concrete on a structural component.

I was born and spent the first half of my life in California, which has a lot of earthquakes. I then spent the last half of my life in Alaska, which is the most seismically active state in The US. I worked in the construction industry, and I am very familiar with building earthquake resistant structures.

Contrary to popular belief, a flexible structure is most likely to survive an earthquake, a rigid structure, no matter how strong, is most likely to collapse. The common practice of building masonry structures in Mexico is not conducive to their surviving a major quake. I don’t have as much confidence in them as I do in a structure with a slightly flexible steel or wood frame.

Incidentally, if an earthquake lasts for one minute, it’s time to get the hell out of the building. That’s when things start to fall down. If a person is unduly afraid of earthquakes, Mexico City would not be a good choice as a retirement haven.

By a co-incidence, my Suegro was talking about the day of the earthquake last night. She told about how all her neighbors gathered on the sidewalk in front of their collapsed homes. One lady had carried a bag with cans of tuna fish out of her house for some reason. She told everybody, “Don’t worry, we will all have something to eat”.

My Suegra said she had a bag of bolillos in her house, but it would be too dangerous to go up to the second floor o get them. Then our niece, who was twelve years old at the time said “ I don’t weigh as much as you, I can go get them” She not only brought the bolillos down, but all the sodas, and canned goods in the house. Other neighbors ventured in to their houses to salvage what food they could.

My Suegra said soon all the neighbors were sitting on the sidewalk, having a virtual picnic in the midst of the disaster all around them. When times get tough, good people stick together.

Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

gpk

May 24, 2005, 12:41 PM

Post #23 of 23 (1774 views)

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Re: [TigerTonio] Living in D.F.

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Giuliani was paid US$4 million, I think. He told the DF that it needed honest police--that's about all he did. DF is a wonderful place to visit--I prefer it to New York (the main big city I know well), but I couldn't live there.