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gpk

May 18, 2005, 11:27 AM

Post #1 of 38 (7886 views)

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108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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According to yesterday's Reforma, the Instituto Nacional de Migración reported that as of April 2005, 434,564 foreigners live legally in Mexico, of which 25% (108,728) are from the US. Canada: 21,041; Great Britain: 7,951. Also the report said that 73% of the foreigners were men and 27% were women.



Ed and Fran

May 18, 2005, 11:50 AM

Post #2 of 38 (7867 views)

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Re: [gpk] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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Out of curiosity, did it say where the other 300,000 came from?


E&F


DanielSharpton

May 18, 2005, 11:51 AM

Post #3 of 38 (7868 views)

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Re: [gpk] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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Gee, I though that Mexico City had that many US inhabitants alone!


Uncle Jack


May 18, 2005, 12:14 PM

Post #4 of 38 (7859 views)

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Re: [gpk] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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It's the 3 to 1 ratio of men to women that kinda threw me. Any ideas?

uj


Gringal

May 18, 2005, 12:51 PM

Post #5 of 38 (7842 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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Which does you suppose it is: they don't count women or women don't count?
Anecdotal evidence: Here in SMA, sitting idly on a bench in the jardin watching the folks stroll by, it would appear to be the opposite ratio. How does it look in Lakeside?


(This post was edited by gringal on May 18, 2005, 12:53 PM)


Bubba

May 18, 2005, 12:59 PM

Post #6 of 38 (7834 views)

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Re: [gpk] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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Interestingly, the Guadalajara press quotes the governor of Jalisco as saying that more than 44,600 foreigners live in Jalisco which is the second largest concentration of foreigners in any state in Mexico. I would be willing to bet that the number of Americans living here far exceeds those here legally.


gpk

May 18, 2005, 2:28 PM

Post #7 of 38 (7803 views)

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Re: [Ed and Fran] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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As seems typical with Mexican news, they never ask the questions I want answered. They did give a few more countries: Guatamala, 17342; Japan, 13935; Argentina, 11566; France, 11560; Venezuela, 10552; El Salvador, 9417; China, 9275. This plus Canada, US and GB only add up to 51% of the total, so who knows where the other 49% come from!


gpk

May 18, 2005, 2:31 PM

Post #8 of 38 (7798 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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This ratio was based on the entire foreign population--not just the 3 countries I mentioned. I think maybe the % is distorted because many foreign business people live in Mexico and I guess they are mostly men. Just a guess.


gpk

May 18, 2005, 2:33 PM

Post #9 of 38 (7795 views)

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Re: [Bubba] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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Seems too low a number to me too--maybe all you guys in the Guadalajara area are "illegal". I am not sure whether state officals have access to the federal information or not.


Carol Schmidt


May 18, 2005, 4:11 PM

Post #10 of 38 (7774 views)

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Re: [gpk] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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Seems like fuzzy math to me, too. The INS in the U.S. can never get its statistics right about how many foreigners are in the U.S. legally and illegally either, and I've heard the statistic that there are a million foreigners living in Mexico, twice what this agency says.

In San Miguel alone the mayor says there are 7,000 foreigners living here out of a city population of 70,000 and a regional population of 130,000, but I've heard figures for gringos as low as 3,000 and as high as 15,000.

From once having been a census taker, I can say that it is hard to pin down exact figures even going door to door--is the daughter who happens to be staying in her parents' RV the weekend of the census also being counted by her husband back home?
Whatever, they're the immigration office and their figures should count for something. Seems awfully low, though. In San Miguel, I agree, single women outnumber single men probably two to one, at least. That may be because older women still outlive older men.

Carol Schmidt

(This post was edited by Carol Schmidt on May 18, 2005, 4:12 PM)


MARIA CUERVA

May 18, 2005, 5:59 PM

Post #11 of 38 (7749 views)

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Re: [gpk] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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I'm just wondering,Since I always lie to the census takers- both for fun and to skew things, also I feel it is an intrusion into my private life, whether the so called statistics have any basis in reality. Clearly there are a great number of illegals(such a harsh word)living in Mexico that are unacounted for.


Ed and Fran

May 18, 2005, 6:31 PM

Post #12 of 38 (7738 views)

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Re: [cuerva] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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Since I always lie to the census takers- both for fun and to skew things, ........... whether the so called statistics have any basis in reality. Clearly there are a great number of illegals(such a harsh word)living in Mexico that are unacounted for.


But the original post was only referring to foreigners living legally in the country. And the stats weren't from a census, they were from Migración. So I would think they should be reflecting people who have registered with them for an FM-2 or FM-3. OP didn't mention it but I would also think that living means they weren't counting people temporarily in the country on FMT's.


Regards

E&F


MARIA CUERVA

May 18, 2005, 6:41 PM

Post #13 of 38 (7732 views)

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Re: [Ed and Fran] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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We all agree that there are more Americans living in Mexico than are accounted for. I then am referring to the many who make up that overflow who have allowed their tourist visas to expire and stayed in Mexico with no legal status


Don


May 18, 2005, 8:08 PM

Post #14 of 38 (7703 views)

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Re: [gpk] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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No matter where you look, different figures keep popping up. Below is a March 21 article in the Detroit Free Press that gives other figures.

http://www.freep.com/...xico21e_20050321.htm


Kimpatsu Hekigan


May 18, 2005, 8:17 PM

Post #15 of 38 (7698 views)

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Re: [gpk] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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gpk:

Could you kindly provide a URL for that article in La Reforma? I'd very much like to read the the original...

For what it's worth ('FWIW'), I consider this figure of "108,728" Americans living in Mexico to be first plausible estimate of the actual number that I've seen.

Yes, there are undoubtedly many more than this number when one includes "undocumented" Americans in Mexico, but I regard the U.S. Embassy's widely quoted figure of "up to a 800,000" to be wildly inflated.

As an exercise for extra credit, given the vagaries of counting populations (with testimonials provided by the former census takers on this list), can anyone offer an approach that would lead to a "more accurate" count for the number of U.S. citizens that make Mexico their home, say, for more than (arbitrarily) nine months per year?

Many thanks,

-- K.H.


The Disciple lamented, "Master! Why is my life beset with problems?!"
The Master observed, "Only tourists step in dog droppings..."




esperanza

May 18, 2005, 8:43 PM

Post #16 of 38 (7687 views)

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Re: [Don] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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The interviews for the article in the Detroit Free Press were done almost two years ago. This is a syndicated article that has been circulating for several months now and has numerous inaccuracies in it. Those inaccuracies lead me to believe that the foreign-population figures are equally inaccurate.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









gpk

May 19, 2005, 5:37 AM

Post #17 of 38 (7648 views)

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Re: [kimpatsu_hekigan] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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I read it in a real newspaper. I am sure Reforma has a website, but I don't have the URL. Sorry.


esperanza

May 19, 2005, 5:41 AM

Post #18 of 38 (7646 views)

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Re: [gpk] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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KH, here's the Reforma website:

http://www.reforma.com/

I poked around on it yesterday trying unsuccessfully to find the article that gpk mentioned. There's a headline today about immigration, but I don't have time to read it right this minute.

If you find the link to the article, would you kindly post it here?

Thanks.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Don


May 19, 2005, 6:53 AM

Post #19 of 38 (7621 views)

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Re: [esperanza] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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"This is a syndicated article that has been circulating for several months now and has numerous inaccuracies in it."

Numerous inaccuracies or just statements on which you disagree? I know, I disagree with a couple of statements, but I don't know if they are inaccurate. That probably holds true with many articles I read. I think the number of Americans in Mexico is more than 108,728, but you will find figures all over the board. Who is right and who is wrong? Your guess is as good as mine.


Carol Schmidt


May 19, 2005, 7:35 AM

Post #20 of 38 (7607 views)

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A million private U.S. citizens living in Mexico--Overseas Digest

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Private American Citizens Residing Abroad

Americans Registered Abroad By Post
(List compiled July 1999 by the Bureau of Consular Affairs)
This list does NOT include U.S. Government (military and nonmilitary) employees and their dependents.
Editor's Note: This list was the last one published. "By Post" means that some countries have both an American embassy and consulate.
Americans living in the area of these posts are encouraged to register, which simply means they fill out a form to let the embassy or consulate know they are there. This helps in case of emergencies and situations like lost passports.
Many do not register, which means that in theory the number of Americans could be higher. These numbers also include children who became American citizens by being born in the United States, but whose parents could be citizens of other countries.
Although this list is from 1999, it still gives a good indication of where Americans are.
Country Post # Resident Americans
ALBANIA Tirana 646
ALGERIA Algiers 793
ANGOLA Luanda 845
ARGENTINA Buenos Aires 27,600
ARMENIA Yerevan 229
AUSTRALIA Canberra 2,500

Melbourne 38,000
Sydney 55,500
Perth 6,800

AUSTRIA Vienna 14,000
AZERBAIJAN Baku 600
BAHAMAS Nassau 7,050
BAHRAIN Manama 1,800
BANGLADESH Dhaka 1,320
BARBADOS Bridgetown 12,000
BELARUS Minsk 190
BELGIUM Brussels 35,328
BELIZE Belize City 2,700
BENIN Cotonou 250
BERMUDA Hamilton 4,300
BOLIVIA La Paz 3,000
BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA Sarajevo 1600
BOTSWANA Gaborone 800
BRAZIL Brasilia 7,200

Rio de Janeiro 14,460
Sao Paolo 16,480
Recife 2,500

BRUNEI Bandar Seri Begawan 248
BULGARIA Sofia 400
BURKINA FASO Ouagadougou 329
BURMA Rangoon 332
BURUNDI Bujumbura 46
CAMBODIA Phnom Penh 1200
CAMEROON Yaounde 1,161
CANADA Ottawa 24,300

Calgary 105,000
Halifax 40,000
Montreal 65,000
Quebec 3,400
Toronto 250,000
Vancouver 200,000

CAPE VERDE Praia 1,000
CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC Bangui 91
CHAD N'Djamena 162
CHILE Santiago 11,790
CHINA Beijing 10,000

Guangzhou 3,200
Hong Kong 48,220
Shanghai 2,382
Shenyang 555
Chengdu 800

COLOMBIA Bogota 30,680
CONGO (Democratic Republic of) Kinshasa 440
CONGO (Republic of) Brazzaville 233
COSTA RICA San Jose 19,800
COTE D'IVOIRE Abidjan 2,100
CROATIA Zagreb 1,921
CUBA Havana 2,000
CYPRUS Nicosia 4,175
CZECH REPUBLIC Prague 10,000
DENMARK Copenhagen 9,380
DJIBOUTI Djibouti 50
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC Santo Domingo 82,000
ECUADOR Quito 7,950

Guayquil 5,874

EGYPT Cairo 10,892
EL SALVADOR San Salvador 10,000
EQUATORIAL GUINEA Malabo 30
ERITREA Asmara 356
ESTONIA Tallinn 1,000
ETHIOPIA Addis Ababa 2,190
FIJI Suva 5,288
FINLAND Helsinki 4,700
FRANCE Paris 75,000

Marseille 23,700
Strasbourg 3,050

GABON Libreville 298
GAMBIA Banjul 546
GEORGIA Tbilisi 303
GERMANY Bonn 692

Berlin 14,619
Frankfurt Am Main 138,815
Hamburg 11,754
Munich 45,000

GHANA Accra 3,780
GREECE Athens 65,000

Thessaloniki 7,500

GRENADA St. George's 2,000
GUATEMALA Guatemala City 10,000
GUINEA Conakry 660
GUINEA-BISSAU Bissau 25
GUYANA Georgetown 1,500
HAITI Port-Au-Prince 11,000
HONDURAS Tegucigalpa 10,500
HUNGARY Budapest 15,000
ICELAND Reykjavik 1,730
INDIA New Delhi 1,397

Mumbai 9,400
Calcutta 672
Madras 3,900

INDONESIA Jakarta 6,818

Surabaya 2,240

IRELAND Dublin 46,984
ISRAEL Tel Aviv 18,000
JERUSALEM Jerusalem 76,195
ITALY Rome 40,000

Milan 20,000
Naples 72,000
Florence 36,967

JAMAICA Kingston 7,500
JAPAN Tokyo 45,000

Naha, Okinawa 3,415
Osaka-Kobe 13,484
Sapporo 2,756
Fukuoka 5,695

JORDAN Amman 8,000
KAZAKHSTAN Almaty 3,600
KENYA Nairobi 4,237
KOREA Seoul 30,000
KUWAIT Kuwait 7,710
KYRGYZSTAN Bishkek 150
LAOS Vientiane 293
LATVIA Riga 2,084
LEBANON Beirut 10,000
LESOTHO Maseru 190
LIBERIA Monrovia 220
LITHUANIA Vilnius 1,500
LUXEMBOURG Luxembourg 1,527
MACEDONIA Skopje 800
MADAGASCAR Antananarivo 372
MALAWI Lilongwe 863
MALAYSIA Kuala Lumpur 6,639
MALI Bamako 460
MALTA Valletta 700
MARSHALL ISLANDS Majuro 580
MAURITANIA Nouakchott 100
MAURITIUS Port Louis 320
MEXICO Mexico City 441,680

Ciudad Juarez 63,480
Guadalajara 111,100
Monterrey 29,900
Tijuana 196,000
Hermosillo 80,600
Matamoros 60,960
Merida 49,000
Nuevo Laredo 3,580

MICRONESIA Kolonia 760
MOLDOVA Chisinau 125
MONGOLIA Ulaanbaatar 450
MOROCCO Rabat 1,401
MOZAMBIQUE Maputo 641
NAMIBIA Windhoek 350
NEPAL Kathmandu 1,600
NETHERLANDS Amsterdam 23,707
NETHERLANDS ANTILLES Curacao 6,075
NEW ZEALAND Auckland 14,540
NICARAGUA Managua 5,000
NIGER Niamey 335
NIGERIA Lagos 10,000
NORWAY Oslo 15,000
OMAN Muscat 1,444
PAKISTAN Islamabad 506

Karachi 2,100
Lahore 1,250
Peshawar 375

PALAU Koror 300
PANAMA Panama City 19,700
PAPUA NEW GUINEA Port Moresby 2,468
PARAGUAY Asuncion 2,368
PERU Lima 14,143
PHILIPPINES Manila 105,000
POLAND Warsaw 21,300

Krakow 18,000

PORTUGAL Lisbon 1,072

Ponta Delgada 1,100

QATAR Doha 3,775
ROMANIA Bucharest 13,152
RUSSIA Moscow 8,000

St. Petersburg 900
Vladivostok 348
Yekaterinburg 200

RWANDA Kigali 165
SAUDI ARABIA Riyadh 11,506

Dhahran 13,600
Jeddah 10,883

SENEGAL Dakar 791
SERBIA-MONTENEGRO Belgrade 4,514
SIERRA LEONE Freetown 130
SINGAPORE Singapore 15,000
SLOVAK REPUBLIC Bratislava 850
SLOVENIA Ljubljana 650
SOMALIA Mogadishu 12
SOUTH AFRICA Pretoria 8,100

Cape Town 2,647
Durban 720

SPAIN Madrid 75,596

Barcelona 18,917

SRI LANKA Colombo 658
SUDAN Khartoum 1,479
SURINAME Paramaribo 425
SWAZILAND Mbabane 352
SWEDEN Stockholm 18,000
SWITZERLAND Bern 12,113
SYRIA Damascus 3,856
TAIWAN Taipei 38,000
TAJIKISTAN Dushanbe 117
TANZANIA Dar Es Salaam 1,186
THAILAND Bangkok 16,500

Chiang Mai 1,600

TOGO Lome 329
TRINIDAD & TOBAGO Port-of-Spain 3,200
TUNISIA Tunis 700
TURKEY Ankara 2,010

Istanbul 4,800

Adana 266

TURKMENISTAN Ashgabat 107
UGANDA Kampala 1,350
UKRAINE Kiev 3,000
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES

Abu Dhabi 7,500
Dubai 9,000

UNITED KINGDOM London, England 200,000

Belfast, Ireland 4,000
Edinburgh, Scotland 20,000

URUGUAY Montevideo 3,500
UZBEKISTAN Tashkent 590
VENEZUELA Caracas 25,000
VIETNAM Hanoi 3,000
WESTERN SAMOA Apia 495
YEMEN Sanaa 15,300
ZAMBIA Lusaka 980
ZIMBABWE Harare 2,125

GRAND TOTAL 3,784,693

__________________________________________________


Miguel Palomares


May 19, 2005, 8:29 AM

Post #21 of 38 (7594 views)

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Re: [cuerva] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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Quote
I always lie to the census takers- both for fun and to skew things, also I feel it is an intrusion into my private life.


Hi, honeybuns. Among other important things, the census numbers are used to determine representation in Congress. It is not a plaything. It is part of the democratic process. Wouldn´t it be grand if everybody lied to the census-takers? Jeez. Sometimes I just cannot believe the things I read on this forum.
From Tzurumutaro, Michoacan, "The Village of the Darned."
_______________________________________

The nuts and bolts of moving to Mexico:
http://michaeldickson.blogspot.com/
The dark side of living in Mexico:
http://mexicopeeks.blogspot.com/
Scintillating life in a Mexican pueblo:
http://tzurumutaro.blogspot.com/
http://tzurumutaro2.blogspot.com/


Miguel Palomares


May 19, 2005, 8:38 AM

Post #22 of 38 (7590 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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Quote
It's the 3 to 1 ratio of men to women that kinda threw me. Any ideas?


This does not surprise me in the slightest. Mexico is a man´s world. I do not think it is a good destination for an unattached foreign woman unless she heads directly to one of the Gringo enclaves, like San Miguel, for strength in numbers. And that would explain Gringal´s observation that there are plenty of foreign women in that town.

Another reason there are far more foreign men than women in Mexico is that it takes huevos to move here. Yes, it does. And, though some women have spiritual (character) huevos, more men have the real variety.

There you have it. Clear as crystal to me.
From Tzurumutaro, Michoacan, "The Village of the Darned."
_______________________________________

The nuts and bolts of moving to Mexico:
http://michaeldickson.blogspot.com/
The dark side of living in Mexico:
http://mexicopeeks.blogspot.com/
Scintillating life in a Mexican pueblo:
http://tzurumutaro.blogspot.com/
http://tzurumutaro2.blogspot.com/

(This post was edited by palomares on May 19, 2005, 8:46 AM)


jdeciucies

May 19, 2005, 9:57 AM

Post #23 of 38 (7565 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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The three to one ratio sounds kind of on target to me too: I know many fellows down here married to Mexican gals: the women find the gringos in general to be "good" husbands. Not quite sure folks feel the same way about American women as wives... It is an international trend that I'm sure many of the fellows here will comprehend, although some of the gals may not. I'll leave it at that.

There are many, many Cubans residing in Mexico.


Papirex


May 19, 2005, 10:05 AM

Post #24 of 38 (7562 views)

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Re: [gpk] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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Personally I have zero faith in any population figures generated by any Mexican government agency. They differ wildly for any city or area, depending on which agency is doing the reporting. I depend on them only as a guideline.

For instance, it is generally agreed that Mexico City has no less than a population of 18 million people, but there may be as many as 23 ½ million people there. It has been accepted that the population of Guadalajara is 3 million people for many years. Recently it has been reported to be 7 million by some people. That would mean that Guadalajara has more than doubled its population. I think that would have been noticeable by everyone in the area long before now.

Where I live, the population is often reported to be 1 million people, by people that do not live in Cuernavaca. Four years ago, a new sign was installed on the autopista that runs through town, saying that the population of Cuernavaca is 339 thousand people. A couple of miles from that new sign, is a very old, faded sign on the old libre. It says that the population here is 500,000 people. This years phone book claims that the population of Cuernavaca is 700,000 people.

My best guess is that the population of Cuernavaca is somewhere around 350-400,000 people, and for this area maybe somewhere around 700,000 if all the nearby towns are counted as a part of Cuernavaca.

Accurate population figures for any area, or group in Mexico are, as they say here, “A coin in the air.” 100,000 Americans living here could be accurate, a million Americans here is I think, far too high. What is the true figure? Who knows?

Articles written by authors outside of Mexico are worthless for accurate population information.

Rex




"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


bournemouth

May 19, 2005, 10:17 AM

Post #25 of 38 (7552 views)

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Re: [palomares] 108,728 US Americans live in Mexico

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Palomares - I realize that you say a lot of things to provoke a reaction, and often succeed - BUT - calling someone "honeybuns" is rude and crude, showing the rest of us a lot about your character, none of it pleasant. Please desist in the future.
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