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Royer Yonson

Apr 17, 2005, 6:57 PM

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Hacienda los Pirules

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Anyone heard of this new development? It looks tempting.



Carol Schmidt


Apr 21, 2005, 8:39 AM

Post #2 of 28 (5324 views)

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Re: [Royer Yonson] Hacienda los Pirules

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I've been looking for any mention of this development since you posted but haven't seen a word. Tell us more about what you do know about it and maybe we can track down more info.

Maybe people might want to post about various new developments and what they know about them, for comparison. I personally am a Centro person, have to be able to walk to just about everything, want to be able to jump up from my chair at the sound of drums and follow the parade wherever it is. But the new gringo-oriented housing developments are certainly springing up.

Pros and cons, anybody?

Carol Schmidt


toddmc


Apr 22, 2005, 7:24 AM

Post #3 of 28 (5284 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Hacienda los Pirules

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I dont have much to offer for info, but I did find this website.

http://www.hacienda-los-pirules.com/

Part of this seems to be time share, is this the first timeshare in SMA or are there others?


(This post was edited by toddmc on Apr 22, 2005, 7:29 AM)


Carol Schmidt


Apr 22, 2005, 11:37 AM

Post #4 of 28 (5253 views)

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Re: [toddmc] Hacienda los Pirules

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I've never heard of any timeshares in San Miguel before this one. Some people do some informal house-sharing for different times of the year, six months each, for example.

Two comments from a gringa who couldn't afford to spend one night there: if the Jack Nicklaus golf resort is having such a hard time actually coming to reality with more going for it, I doubt seriously this project will ever actually happen.

And if it does, it's far enough away from the city and fairly self-contained so that these wealthy folks won't come into town very often with their hulking cars and high-end tastes. Let them soak and get soaked. I for one make a very small footprint on this country; this project could be a very large footprint.

I hate the fact so many rich developers are out to get richer off of this town and off of Mexico, though I know change is inevitable. As in Santa Fe, Sedona, Taos, Laguna, Asheville, Austin and so many other places, first come the artists who make the art, then come the gallery owners who sell the art, and then come the millionaires who buy the art.

Carol Schmidt


Chumley

Apr 22, 2005, 2:10 PM

Post #5 of 28 (5239 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Hacienda los Pirules

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Eso es.


Kip


Apr 22, 2005, 2:50 PM

Post #6 of 28 (5229 views)

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Re: [Chumley] Hacienda los Pirules

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Does that translate to S.O.S.?
kip


esperanza

Apr 22, 2005, 3:03 PM

Post #7 of 28 (5226 views)

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Re: [Kip] Hacienda los Pirules

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Eso es translates to 'that's it'.

SOS translates to metallic soap pads. My housekeeper in San Diego used to say, "Necesitamos sos." I never had a clue what she meant till one day I wasn't home and she wrote me a note: Señora, necesitamos SOS.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









(This post was edited by esperanza on Apr 22, 2005, 3:03 PM)


Carol Schmidt


Apr 22, 2005, 6:42 PM

Post #8 of 28 (5201 views)

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socks

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One Spanish teacher I had told the joke about the Spanish-speaking guy who went into a U.S. store to buy a pair of socks. The salesclerk searched high and low for him, showing him this and that, and finally the guy spotted the socks display.

"Eso se que es!" he exclaimed.

The clerk said in exasperation, "If you could spell it why didn't you just say so?"

Carol Schmidt


Kip


Apr 22, 2005, 8:14 PM

Post #9 of 28 (5190 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Hacienda los Pirules

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SOoooo... eso es SOS S.O.S. would mean...That's it...metal soap pads help?
kip


Royer Yonson

May 1, 2005, 4:16 PM

Post #10 of 28 (5078 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Hacienda los Pirules

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As far as what's for sale, they're offering franctionals which are deeded ownerships. You buy a month at a time. I learned about this by reading mexicoinsider.com. I'm someone who's years away from being able to move to Mexico. I don't have the ability or inclination to take care of a property in Mexico from the US. I have no interest in time shares as they're a money loser. For someone like myself, I need something that gives me a start in Mexico without being overwhelmed by the costs. Hacienda los Pirules could be the vehicle, yet I'm concerned that the costs could turn out to be high. I've been quoted $200 per month for maintenance once they're up and going. That's 1/12th of the projected cost. Does that sound high for the area? I've found, by posting on other boards, that there are a number of people who are anti-upscale developments. That's fine, I may feel that way myself someday. For now, I'm not asking to hear that point of view. These developments are being back by developers with deeper pockets and are less likely to end up as a pipe dream.

Roger


D.G.

May 1, 2005, 7:14 PM

Post #11 of 28 (5064 views)

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Re: [Royer Yonson] Hacienda los Pirules

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I'm not sure what is included in $200.00 per month maintenance. Is that dollars you are referring to? If it is, I think that would be a huge amount to pay for almost any conceivable maintenance in SMA. On the other hand if you are quoting pesos, well, then that's an entirely different story.


Royer Yonson

May 1, 2005, 9:09 PM

Post #12 of 28 (5043 views)

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Re: [D.G.] Hacienda los Pirules

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Es dollares.


jennifer rose

May 1, 2005, 9:16 PM

Post #13 of 28 (5041 views)

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Re: [Royer Yonson] Hacienda los Pirules

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$200 USD doesn't sound unrealistic. Think, for a moment, of what you'd pay in maintenance costs with respect to any dwelling in the price range of and with the amenities provided by this development. Well-manicured common areas and security doesn't come cheap.

$200 M.N. surely wouldn't cut it, even in a backstreet in Comonfort.


Carol Schmidt


May 2, 2005, 3:15 PM

Post #14 of 28 (4995 views)

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Re: [Royer Yonson] Hacienda los Pirules

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For $350 US a month you could rent a small but decent apartment, and for $600 US a month you could get a really nice apartment, though probably a few blocks out of Centro. That might be a better way to get started until you're sure you want to live in the area you've selected. Just about everyone I've talked to says to rent for awhile until you are sure, though there are plenty of people snatching up anything they can at inflated prices to try to make a profit down the line.

Carol Schmidt


Royer Yonson

May 3, 2005, 1:10 PM

Post #15 of 28 (4948 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Hacienda los Pirules

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Thanks Carol, if I can avoid getting "real estate fever" that's what I need to do. Yet, the salespeople are so persuasive and the properties look so promising!


Royer Yonson

Jul 13, 2005, 8:33 PM

Post #16 of 28 (4859 views)

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Re: [Royer Yonson] Hacienda los Pirules

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I thought I'd give an update. I decided not to buy at Hacienda los Pirules. It will be a beautiful place to spend some time when it's completed, and I have little doubt that it will be built. I hope to come visit and stay there someday. For the time being, I've set my sights on Puerto Vallarta. I can get into a similiar project for less money there on the water. A real estate agent I talked to in PV suggested that I might feel more comfortable in Puerto Vallarta as San Miguel can be awfully quiet. I recognize his bias, yet that really struck a chord. I'm not ready for early retirement at age 47! I'll still check in on you all from time to time.


gpk

Jul 14, 2005, 5:45 PM

Post #17 of 28 (4818 views)

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Re: [Royer Yonson] Hacienda los Pirules

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I just sold my PV condo because of the absolutely horrible weather and the honky-tonk environment. PV and SMA have virtually nothing in common except that English is the most common language spoken.


Carol Schmidt


Jul 14, 2005, 6:28 PM

Post #18 of 28 (4810 views)

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Re: False stereotypes about San Miguel

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Out of 130,000 residents of the San Miguel region, only 7,000 are foreigners, mostly English-speaking though I'd guess 10% speak fluent Spanish, 20% can carry on a limited conversation, and another 50% have at least taken a class or two and can do the basics. My estimates only--I think "only" about 20% know very little or no Spanish, which is 20% too many, but that hardly means that 130,000 San Miguel residents speak only English. (Or deal in dollars.) Of course very few of the foreign tourists know Spanish, and we have plenty of them, though most of our tourists are from other parts of Mexico since this is a historic, beautiful city with lots going on at all times.

Again a very rough estimate: I'd say most of the top 5% economically of SMA Mexicans speak very good English, the 10% or so who have businesses with many gringo clients speak basic English, and only a few of the rest of the Mexican population can say more than bare basics in English. Certainly the 60,000 Mexicans who live on the outskirts and the poorer Indians inside the city limits speak almost no English.

If you want to do nothing more than just go to gringo-owned businesses and associate only with gringos, yes, you can get by with very little Spanish. But who'd want to do that? No one I know or would want to know.

So your put-down that everybody in SMA speaks English is ridiculous.

As for SMA being a "quiet" town--that's even more ridiculous. This is the party town of all party towns for the Mexican population, fiestas and parades every time you turn around, and the gringo population is far more active than any group over 50 I've ever experienced. This town rocks! Every day there are far more activities than anyone person could get to, with live music and/or dancing going on each night in a dozen places for the nights when there aren't art openings, concerts and plays. I'd guess there are at least 75 classes going on each week someplace, and always somebody is leading a tour to someplace else in Mexico. And friends drop in all the time, and call you up when they're cooking a good meal. I've got three dinner parties this week alone.

But you wouldn't know it living out of Centro in one of those wealthier developments going up on the outskirts. Those who say there is nothing to do never venture out their doors or make a phone call. They'd probably say there was nothing to do in New York City. Those who want to gripe and be miserable will gripe and be miserable no matter where they live.

And there are a whole lot of younger gringos moving here as well, most with little money but a great attitude of openness and a willingness to join in and have fun, too. Yes, we have 80-year-olds still working and playing, but people find their own kinds of friends at whatever age level (or class, nationality, sexual orientation, politics) they prefer.

Send me the name of your PV realtor--I have a bone to pick with him! But then he wouldn't want to hear it anyway--he makes his commissions off of telling people lies about San Miguel and other competitors. I am so sick of these false stereotypes of SMA.

Carol Schmidt

(This post was edited by Carol Schmidt on Jul 14, 2005, 6:34 PM)


gpk

Jul 15, 2005, 5:39 AM

Post #19 of 28 (4787 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] False stereotypes about San Miguel

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I owned a house in SMA for almost 4 years starting 9 years ago. When I first went there, waiters, store workers etc. did not speak English. Today, if you speak in Spanish waiters, store workers etc. answer in English. This wasn't meant to be a put down of SMA, I was just mentioning the only thing that IMO SMA had in common with Puerto Vallarta. I am beginning to join other forum writers who think SMA folks have chips on their shoulders. As a former SMA resident, property owner and long time visitor I can tell you that my OPINION is as valid as yours.


Carol Schmidt


Jul 15, 2005, 1:19 PM

Post #20 of 28 (4749 views)

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Re: [gpk] False stereotypes about San Miguel

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I respect your experiences based on five years living in San Miguel. I've only lived here three years. Many people who say "everyone in San Miguel speaks English" have breezed through town and never left Centro.

We may have a case of the five blind men describing the elephant again. To say >English is the most common language spoken> contradicts my experiences that some 100,000 Mexicans living in San Miguel know no more English than the average norteamericano knows buenos dias, hasta la vista, manana, adios, and taco/burrito/tortilla/fajitas/nachos.

I find it hard to believe that you found >English is the most common language spoken> in all of San Miguel, but perhaps you were speaking only of Centro and the other gringo gathering spots, where upwardly mobile Mexicans learn English to sell more goods and services to the target population with the most money, a wise move for them financially.

We walked home from Immigration yesterday, well out past the bus station on Canal, and didn't hear an English word or see an English sign (except Coca Cola and Pepsi) for two miles until we hit Centro again.

To generalize that >SMA folks have chips on their shoulders> because one person here, me, defends this town I love from what I see are constant repetitions of what I experience as inaccurate negative stereotypes, is a very broad brush to characterize 130,000 SMA folks with.

Carol Schmidt


gpk

Jul 16, 2005, 8:55 AM

Post #21 of 28 (4719 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] False stereotypes about San Miguel

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Yes--I overgeneralized (is that a word?) about the English spoken in SMA. My real point was that in both SMA and in Puerto Vallarta a foreigner can lead a very complete life without knowing a single word of Spanish--and that is about all the two towns have in common. (The original poster was choosing PV over SMA--which is fine with me-- but I think he was comparing apples and oranges.) I like SMA, but I don´t love it. I have been able to learn Spanish--up to at least the advanced tourist level--since leaving SMA. I can now defend myself before the CFE and Telmex, I can argue quality at the fruteria, and I can dismiss telephone salesmen. Also, now alomost all of my friends are Mexican--something I was never able to achieve in SMA or in PV. For me, the Mexico outside of the main tourist areas is better and more rewarding.


Carol Schmidt


Jul 16, 2005, 9:29 AM

Post #22 of 28 (4713 views)

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Re: [gpk] False stereotypes about San Miguel

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Ah, we reached agreement. You're undoubtedly right about it being easier to learn Spanish if you're forced to use it daily, and it is very easy to speak mostly English in San Miguel with so many English speakers available.

Chicken and egg--San Miguel gringos who speak the best Spanish are the most integrated into Mexican life, but did they force themselves deliberately to find Spanish-speaking friends and organizations so that they would become more fluent, or do they have the intuitive ability to pick up another language more easily which made it possible for them to do so? Probably parts of both.

Each person finds his or her own balance and motivation. Far more gringos take the easy way out and don't try as hard to learn Spanish when they have so many English-speaking opportunities here as they would if plopped into a totally Spanish-speaking world. And that includes me.

A friend gave me the first 40 hours or so of CDs from the Pimslur (misspelled, I'm sure, but it's all on CD) Spanish instruction program, which emphasizes hearing Spanish and learning to respond, and those are helping me a lot.

Carol Schmidt


Royer Yonson

Jul 16, 2005, 5:31 PM

Post #23 of 28 (4684 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] False stereotypes about San Miguel

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Send me the name of your PV realtor--I have a bone to pick with him! But then he wouldn't want to hear it anyway--he makes his commissions off of telling people lies about San Miguel and other competitors. I am so sick of these false stereotypes of SMA.

Carol Schmidt

Well Carol, he's going to be in San Miguel this next week speaking at a conference sponsored by International Living. The conference will focus on San Miguel, but they'll also talk about investing in other areas of Mexico. His name is Wayne Franklin. Say Hi to him for me!

Way to stick up for your homeboys!

Roger


Royer Yonson

Jul 16, 2005, 6:00 PM

Post #24 of 28 (4680 views)

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Re: [gpk] Hacienda los Pirules

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I just sold my PV condo because of the absolutely horrible weather and the honky-tonk environment. PV and SMA have virtually nothing in common except that English is the most common language spoken.

This triggered such a good idea for a post that I created a new post on the general board (expat superiority complex). Why wouldn't english speaking people move to an area where there are a lot of other english speaking people? Is that such a bad thing?


not_ally

Jul 16, 2005, 7:01 PM

Post #25 of 28 (4670 views)

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Re: [Royer Yonson] Hacienda los Pirules

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Hi Royer,

Just wanted to comment on the age issue. As a 42 year old woman I was a bit worried about the fact that there might not be many people in my age range when I first visited SMA. That has turned out to be non-problematic, as there so many things to do, and so many people to do them with (of all ages) that my social issues, if any, have to do with limiting social outings to a reasonable number. Also, the age range of the people I hang out with here is wider than my social group in the States, which I really like. And there is tons of stuff to do here - there are so many items on my "one of these days list" that I anticipate being happily occupied until sometime mid-century.

I would say that (like everywhere it seems) available woman above 30 seem to outnumber available straight men by some noticeable percentage so women looking for romantic companionship might not want to settle here. But for happy singletons or others it's ideal.
----------------------------
"The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly I discover there is no reason." John Cage
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