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mitchp41


Apr 7, 2005, 12:15 PM

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money exchange

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hello folkes,a question,does anyne know if they charge you at the casa de cambio,if so what is the rate(cashing u,s, dollars,thank you very much,will be there the 12th of april



Rolly


Apr 7, 2005, 12:21 PM

Post #2 of 18 (1732 views)

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Re: [mitchp41] money exchange

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I have never known a casa de cambio to charge a service fee. The exchange rate changes almost daily, so there is no way to tell you what it will be when you arrive beyond saying that it will be around 11:1.

Rolly Pirate


mitchp41


Apr 7, 2005, 12:35 PM

Post #3 of 18 (1730 views)

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Re: [mitchp41] money exchange

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Thank you very much,Rolly called bank of america,which owns a large portion of serfin santender? and thet imformed me they charge 3% for their atm use,again thanks,Rolly


Howard Botz

Apr 7, 2005, 2:45 PM

Post #4 of 18 (1705 views)

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Re: [mitchp41] money exchange

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Be careful here....a casa de cambio is not an ATM. Presumably the places where they change money (e.g., dollars to pesos) make their profit on the rate they offer. Depending on the ATM, the bank, your card, you may (or may not) be charged a fee for withdrawing cash from the machine.
Howard in Ajijic
P.S. If you are visiting I would not bring dollars to change, but use your ATM card for pesos.


Bubba

Apr 7, 2005, 2:52 PM

Post #5 of 18 (1702 views)

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Re: [mitchp41] money exchange

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Well, now, Mitch, that's interesting.

First of all, Rolly is talking about a currency exchange house which will not charge you a visible fee for exchanging your dollars for pesos. They make their money on the spread they get versus what they pay you. Each exchange house in a town may offer you a slightly different exchange rate but if you go to a house in an airport or other like spot, they may really take you to the cleaners. It is hardly worth the trouble to shop your dollars for a few centavos difference in the exchange rate so go for convenience as a rule.

I am surprised that BofA charges a 3.0% ATM fee. I presume that is 3.0% of the amount of the withdrawal. Well, for a $5,000 Peso withdrawal, that would be $150 Pesos or about $14.50USD. If you are right, you are paying way more than anybody else on the planet. You might want to look into that again. You should pay between nothing and $3.00USD for the privilege of using an ATM down here. They must have meant $3.00USD which is no bargain.

If you are exchanging large amounts of dollars, it is worth your while to shop financial intermediaries. I'll give you an example. I have accounts in Mexico at Bancomer and Lloyd Investment House. Let's say I am transferring $10,000USD down here by wire from my U.S. bank as an example. Let's assume that the dollar/peso exchange rate may change dialy or even within the business day. The other day, out of curiosity, I asked my bankers at each of those institutions what their exchange rate would be if I wired dollars from my U.S. bank. That morning, Lloyd was offering 11.03 Pesos per dollar while bancomer was offering 11.11Pesos per dollar. That's $0.08 Centavos difference per dollar. Miniscule but worth the trouble on a $10,000 transaction.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Apr 7, 2005, 2:55 PM)


Rolly


Apr 7, 2005, 3:08 PM

Post #6 of 18 (1697 views)

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Re: [mitchp41] money exchange

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Mitchp, you were misinformed about ATM fees at BofA/Serfin. They do NOT charge for ATM withdrawals. I am a regular user of a BofA ATM card at Serfin. I often check the exchange rate, and it is always as good as anybody in town is doing.

I am sure the person you spoke with at BofA was thinking about their Visa credit card which does have a 3% surcharge.

Rolly Pirate


Papirex


Apr 7, 2005, 3:29 PM

Post #7 of 18 (1695 views)

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Re: [mitchp41] money exchange

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Casas de Cambios are a private business, not a public service, they make their money on each transaction they process. While they don’t charge a separate fee, they do give a lower exchange rate to make a profit..

The exchange rate fluctuates hourly, it reflects the bid-ask-sell rate of a particular currency. It is important to note that the published exchange rate on any given day is yesterdays closing rate. When you exchange money here, you are not simply exchanging it, you are buying Pesos with Dollars. The published exchange rate is usually for buying Dollars with Pesos, it is slightly higher than the rate you will receive when buying pesos with Dollars. See: http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic?margin_fixed=0&expr=USD&lang=en&pref_list=USD_MXN&menu_rows=7&date_fmt=us&exch=MXP_USD

Using a Cambio should be your last choice, banks usually give a much better rate. ATM machines are probably the best choice for a visitor. Most banks do charge an international foreign exchange/currency conversion fee. Until this month, my non profit Credit union, Alaska USA FCU, did not list that fee separately. I would simply see an ATM transaction on my online statement. The amount shown for my ATM transactions always seemed to be about 1 % higher than the should have been, until I figured out why. They now list it as a separate charge above the amount of Pesos, in Dollars withdrawn.

On the Alaska USA FEDERAL CREDIT UNION FEDERAL ELECTRONIC FUND TRANSFER ACT DISCLOSURE information sheet I received this year the following information is shown:

“Foreign Exchange/currency conversion:
If you use your Visa Check Card for purchases or ATM withdrawals in a currency other than US Dollars, the purchase and withdrawal amounts will be converted to US Dollars by Visa International. Inc. under their rules set forth from time to time. Currently, the rules specify that the currency conversion rate is generally either a (1) government mandated rate or (2) wholesale market rate in effect the day before the transaction processing date, increased by one percent (1%). If a credit is subsequently given for a transaction in a currency other than than US Dollars and the credit has a different processing date, then the converted amount may be greater/less than the converted amount of the original transaction. The currency conversion rate on the day before the transaction processing date will be used and may differ from the rate in effect at the time of the original transaction. You agree to accept the converted amount in US Dollars.”

The link I gave above to the Oanda currency converter allows you to choose the rate used, Interbank rate, Interbank rate plus 1% or 2% etc. You can also choose the date to be used, so if you want to check a transaction made last month, you may do so. If you enter an amount in the morning, and the same amount in the afternoon, you will get two different answers, this reflects on the changing exchange rate throughout the day.

Some people in the past have posted on these forums that they were “cheated” by a Mexican bank on the exchange rate they received at an ATM. They just don’t know how foreign exchange works.

Now having posted all this confusing crap about the exchange rate, I will say that during the most serious Peso crisis in Mexico in the decade 1982-1992, I was forced to use Cambios exclusively. All the banks had been nationalized, and the first thing that happened was that all the competent people were fired. It was hopeless trying to use a bank. Because of the runaway inflation in those pre-Internet days, there were no ATMs in Mexico until about 1992. A Cambio is better than nothing, but just barely.

Rex










"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


jshrall

Apr 8, 2005, 9:43 AM

Post #8 of 18 (1613 views)

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Re: [RexC] money exchange

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On April 1, 2005, a new mandate went into effect regarding these hidden 1% - 3% credit card fees. Visa calls this fee an "International Service Assessment" while Master Card refers to it as "Multiple Currency Conversion Rate".

Evidently Visa and Master Card were sued some time back because these fees were not disclosed to the consumer as required by Regulation E (EFT information) and Regulation Z (loan interest rate disclosure). Visa and Master Card lost this suit but dragged their feet until they were forced to comply. On March 1 Visa and MC announced to the banking community that on April 1 they would no longer pass the fee directly to the consumer. Rather it would be up to each financial institution to figure out the fee, charge the member and disclose it on statements.

Visa and Master card will still charge the fee to the financial institution and it is their tough luck if they can't collect from the consumer. The fee is not only related to credit cards, but also to debit cards used in a foreign country to make purchases requiring a signature. I do not believe the debit cards used in ATM machines qualify for this fee because these transactions do not flow through the Visa or Master Card networks. More info on that later.

The change went into effect last week, but due to to the limited lead time, many networks do not have the programs in place to pass the fee to the consumer. Some banks may temporarily eat this fee until everyone is synchronized while others may attempt to assess the fee manually. In any case, look for this fee to be hidden no longer.

It will be very interesting to see how this fee disclosure pans out. It is one thing to bury a disclaimer in a multi-page disclosure and quite another seeing it on a statement next to your purchase. Credit card companies have quietly made a fortune on these fees over the years. It won't be that easy for them any more.


Papirex


Apr 8, 2005, 10:44 AM

Post #9 of 18 (1602 views)

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Re: [jshrall] money exchange

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John, Thanks for the clarification re: the international withdrawal fees. They did begin to be listed on my online statement the first of this month. They are under the heading “Withdrawal ATM fee”, when I click on it for details, it says “Int’l transaction fee assessed by Visa.”

The card we use is called a “Visa check card”, it is a combination debit/ATM card.

I first noticed the discrepancy between the amounts we withdrew, and the amounts our account was debited a few years ago, when we moved to Mexico, and we began using ATM machines much more often than we did on our previous trips here. All my financial files were still in a box in our trailer. I searched the website for my credit union to find out what was going on. You are right about it being hidden, very well hidden. It took quite a while to find the information.

I was searching for information regarding ATM transactions. I finally found the information under “Foreign exchange.” It did not specify that it applied to ATM withdrawals at that time, but it answered the question of why I was charged 1% more than the withdrawal amount on each transaction.

When I occasionally check our ATM withdrawal amount using the Oanda currency conversion program now, using the Interbank rate plus 1%, the amount shown is never exactly the amount withdrawn, but it is within a few Cents of the amount, usually it is in my favor. Sometimes it even appears that I have been undercharged a Dollar or two.

For me, the 1% surcharge is negligible, ATMs are the way we get pesos here. A person on a tight budget should be aware of it though.

Rex


"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

(This post was edited by RexC on Apr 8, 2005, 1:07 PM)


jshrall

Apr 8, 2005, 11:01 AM

Post #10 of 18 (1597 views)

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Re: [RexC] money exchange

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The Visa and Master Card folks allude to the possibility of this exchange fee occurring when cards are used at ATMs. I would think the use of credit cards in an ATM would definitely tack on the fee. The use of the Visa Check card or debit card is another matter.

I have 2 debit cards and a plain old California Commerce ATM card that I use for cash here. One of the debit cards is issued by a commercial bank and the other by a Credit Union. I have had the opportunity on several occasions to use all 3 consecutively at an ATM. I wanted to make sure that using the free CCBUSA card did not cost me in the exchange rate more than the $1 transaction fee assessed by the debit cards.

On these tests, the exchange rate for all 3 cards was identical down to the 3rd (thousandth) decimal place. This tells me that there is not an additional exchange fee being assessed when using debit cards for cash in a Mexican ATM.


sfmacaws


Apr 9, 2005, 12:04 AM

Post #11 of 18 (1535 views)

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Re: [jshrall] money exchange

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I just got one of those opt-in letters from Amex saying I could be eligible for part of the settlement of a lawsuit about currency exchange fees. I usually toss these as the payout equals the postage but since I used the card to exchange currency a lot during the time period, I sent this one in. We'll see if I get more than $.36 from it.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




jshrall

Apr 20, 2005, 3:29 PM

Post #12 of 18 (1420 views)

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Re: [jshrall] money exchange

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I have an update on the currency conversion fees and California Commerce Bank.

On April 19 I received a credit titled ATM SERVICE CHARGE REVERSAL for 2.71 referring to an April 8 ATM withdrawal that charged 272.18. It is my guess that the original transaction included one of these currency conversion fees in error.

I noted too that when making a CCCB withdrawal and then turning around making a withdrawal using a debit card on 4/13, the effective exchange rate for the debit card was 11.10, while CCCB was 10.96. So it would seem like the CCCB system was still broken as of that date and are probably manually posting reversals as fast as they can.

So anyone using a California Commerce ATM card in Mexico after April 1, watch your statements for the charge and possible credits. I don't know of a good way to verify that the exchange rate for any given day is correct due to fluctuations and unfortunately, the fee they assessed was hidden in the original withdrawal amount.


Howard Botz

Apr 21, 2005, 9:12 AM

Post #13 of 18 (1348 views)

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Re: [jshrall] money exchange

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I noticed the same thing on my computer statement two days ago. There were four credits posted for varying amounts around $2.50-$2.7 U.S. I called California Commerce and was told the computer thought I was using my card in a foreign country (that being Mexico where I live permanently) and added a fee. Obviously this mistake was caught and the charges credited to my account. There is no fee for using a California Commerce ATM for people with Amistad accounts. In two years this is the first time this has happened.
Howard


tsanford

Oct 31, 2005, 2:13 PM

Post #14 of 18 (1193 views)

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Re: [Rolly] money exchange

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Is there a Serfin bank in the Lake Chapal area? Do you know if HSBC has the same association with the B of A
and therefore no ATM fees?


song_of_joy

Oct 31, 2005, 5:44 PM

Post #15 of 18 (1160 views)

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Re: [tsanford] money exchange

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There's a Serfin bank in downtown Chapala about half a block from the traffic light in the center of town. It's on the left, on the road toward Ajijic.


tsanford

Nov 1, 2005, 9:12 AM

Post #16 of 18 (1097 views)

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Re: [song_of_joy] money exchange

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I just called the Bank of America and confirmed that they don't charge fees at Serfin or, by
the way, at Bancomer where I have an account. Then I asked for the exchange rate. It's
10.07 today. The exchange rate at Bancomer for wire transfers or travelers checks is now
about 10.70. For a $1000 transfer the ATM withdrawl would be a loss of about $60 US.
If these calculations are correct how can anyone justify using ATM's to convert to pesos?


Bubba

Nov 1, 2005, 9:30 AM

Post #17 of 18 (1092 views)

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Re: [tsanford] money exchange

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You have been given some bad information. The ATM exchange rate in Ajijic is consistently slighlty over 10.8 at present. The exchange rates at ATMs are usually if not always superior to those you will get elsewhere.

By the way, if you have a really good bank or investment house in the U.S., as do I, you will get a better exchange rate by converting your dollars to pesos in the U.S. and wiring pesos to Mexico rather than dollars. I saved around $2,400 Pesos in a recent transaction by wiring pesos to Lloyd by having my investment house in the U.S. convert the currency there as opposed to here.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Nov 1, 2005, 1:01 PM)


RIONSDAD

Nov 3, 2005, 3:58 AM

Post #18 of 18 (983 views)

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Re: [mitchp41] money exchange

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I believe the local bank, owned 25% by BofA, charges something at their internal casa de cambio desk inside the Bank, but there is no fee associated with withdrawing $$ from the ATM..I've never had a fee attched to that type of activity. Generally the spread on the market/local exchange covers their fee.
 
 
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