Forums > General > General Forum

talosian

Mar 20, 2005, 9:24 PM

Post #1 of 20 (2503 views)

Shortcut

Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

Checking with LCS (Lake Chapala Society in Ajijic) I find that a "simple" cremation is close to US$1,000 for the basics. This includes a lot of non-detailed "Government Fees." That seems very high for Mexico. I'm wondering a few things which possibly someone here might know from some reliable source. What are the fees?

1. I'm told a body must be disposed of (buried or cremated) within 24-hours in Mexico. Yes? No? Don't know?

2. So what happens if an expat dies here and there is no family or next of kin to contact?

3. I'm told if #2 happens, the "government" comes to the residence and takes everything there is to cover "expenses" and no one ever sees any of it again. Yes? No? Probably?

I'm curious about this since I plan on being here until my last breath and have no real next of kin to notify nor anyone to notify who would jump on a plane to come down when I take that last trip (not that I'll know the difference).

Anyone want to weigh-in here with their information and/or thoughts?

Spock
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

jennifer rose

Mar 20, 2005, 10:24 PM

Post #2 of 20 (2479 views)

Shortcut

Re: [talosian] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post |

Cremation or burial is a matter of state law. Generally, 24 hours must pass before cremation.

See http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/guadalajara/GeRemains.htm for a run-down of death expenses in the area covered by the US Consulate General in Guadalajara. Some savings can be realized by having a direct cremation and providing your own container for the cremains.The information on that page may be dated.

In Morelia, a direct cremation ran $800 in 1997, but we weren't looking for a discount crematorium at the time.

No, the government doesn't swoop in and confiscate a decedent's property. See http://travel.state.gov/law/info/death/death_709.html for a description of the process by which a consular office acts as a provisional conservator.

Many funeral homes in Mexico now are providing prepaid plans.

If there is no family or next of kin to contact, in most cases the decedent remains dead.

abq

Mar 21, 2005, 6:03 AM

Post #3 of 20 (2448 views)

Shortcut

Re: [talosian] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

I'm sure you can get whoever is in your will to make the trip.

Georgia

Mar 21, 2005, 7:46 AM

Post #4 of 20 (2424 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jennifer rose] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

Jennifer, are you absolutely sure about that last item?

Texwheel

Mar 21, 2005, 8:14 AM

Post #5 of 20 (2413 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Georgia] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

Given the subject of this thread, I just can't pass up the opportunity to repeat a quote from a science program I saw on TV years ago:

"The world is one great buffet, at which we will all eventually be the entree."
Tom Williams
Georgetown, Texas
Texwheel@aol.com

talosian

Mar 21, 2005, 10:35 AM

Post #6 of 20 (2385 views)

Shortcut

Update

Can't Post | Private Reply

I did a little more inquiry and interestingly enough (and very logical), there seems to be no law in Mexico or even the US for that matter, that any "next of kin" claim the body or make arrangements for it. I am told that if the heirs or N.O.K. do not make arrangements for the body, it is buried by the Government in an unmarked common grave.

That would work for me. I don't believe in doing one of those public things.

Hmmmm, maybe I'll will my body to a Medical School in Mexico. Wonder if they accept those things. I mean, people are always saying how different expats are from Mexicans, maybe this would help a little (smile).

Spock.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

Carron

Mar 21, 2005, 10:58 AM

Post #7 of 20 (2379 views)

Shortcut

Re: [talosian] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

When we moved to Chiapas in 1998 there was a funeral home in Tuxtla G. which advertised cremations for 3000 pesos. Always a frugal family and big fans of cremation for many reasons, we instructed our children to use them should we die while there.

Guess we have gotten so confident about feeling healthier in Mexico than we seemed to in the US, we really haven't checked it out locally. Guess we really ought to!

Carol Schmidt

Mar 21, 2005, 12:11 PM

Post #8 of 20 (2360 views)

Shortcut

Re: [talosian] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

In San Miguel there is something called the 24-Hour Association which costs about $650 US to join, and you can get the total money refunded if you move away or change your mind. They will take care of all the details per your instructions and handle the cremation and ship the cremains wherever you have specified in advance, maybe at the additional cost of shipping.

I've been told that if you die with no one left in charge the U.S. Consulate here will send someone out to first lock the doors so no one can rob your place, until arrangements are made per your will or whatever next of kin, and then handle the cremation at a cost of perhaps half the $650. If you make individual arrangements with one of the Mexican burial places you can get a cremation paid in advance for something like $300, or so I've been told. You can either furnish the holder for the cremains or buy an urn for an inflated cost. (A friend had her husband's ashes stored in a big beer bottle, since that's what killed him.)

We've been putting off checking out all this for sure, for the usual reasons.

Carol Schmidt

smokesilver

Mar 21, 2005, 5:25 PM

Post #9 of 20 (2301 views)

Shortcut

Re: [talosian] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

A friend of mine was killed in a parasailing accident a few years ago while vacationing in Mazatlan. His cremation was $150.00usd.

abq

Mar 21, 2005, 5:27 PM

Post #10 of 20 (2297 views)

Shortcut

Re: [smokesilver] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

Well there's the solution. Best to kick the bucket in Mazatlan!

talosian

Mar 21, 2005, 10:12 PM

Post #11 of 20 (2262 views)

Shortcut

Re: [abq] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

I just figured it out and that is cremations, etc. are just another example of "Grongo Pricing" in Mexico.

And although I have no reason to think I am going to die reasonably soon, I do enjoy learning and that was the reason for my post.

Yes, I'm sure the American whoever will come over to take charge if there is no NOK to do something and I'll bet you several pesos the IRS will be right behind with a Jeopeard Attachment in case an American tried to avoid taxes by dying in Mexico.

Spock
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

cristalhombre

Mar 21, 2005, 11:44 PM

Post #12 of 20 (2257 views)

Shortcut

Re: [talosian] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

Yo Spock

Just curious. My Spanish stinks, but is a "grongo", a very dead gringo? (just how "gron" is he/she, like 2 or 3 days?)

Interesting that you bring this dying stuff to "life" here on MX connect.

Yesterday or was it today??? (hey I'm almost gron, too, bad memory)...... NPR's Morning Addition, had a segment about home funerals. Apparently, there are now 11 states (USA) that allow the family to deal with the body (no funeral home), and this is a growing trend. This reflects, both the high costs of funerals and the impersonal nature of the event itself. I listened and now have a whole new angle on handling death and the ceremony it creates.

The NPR piece was very tender and carefully done. Several of those interviewed explaining the process. One story was from a mother of a 7 year old daughter who died accidently & she explained the process and events. Family, friends, teachers and neighbors came to the house for "goodbyes" as the child's body rested peacefully in her bed, next to her stuffed animals.

Jeeeeez......... by the end of her story I was in tears sitting on the floor. The fact that I am the father of a 13 year old daughter, Miss Elin, who I dearly love gave this story an added kick. However, more significant was the beautiful exchange and closure she created with her deceased child. It was extraordinary journalism. Sad story, but so genuine. This Mother had such strength!

If your thinking this is creepy, DON'T. It was so amazing and touching. Not sure I could do it, but now, knowing more about "home funerals", I think it's worth exploring.

If you think about it, living in MX is an "alternative" to the main stream thinking back home and we all accept it and appreciate it! Friends and family, NOB scratch their heads and wonder about our sanity (well mine do). Maybe one day, "home funerals" will get the same recognition as being an 'ex-pat" in a foreign land..... a worthy alternative!

You might want to Google............ NPR's Morning Addtion (I do think it was on Sunday)
You can find the report and listen. Worth the search for this topic about funerals. It's possible MX has some unique options too.

The death and dying part of the human cycle is so very awkward. I went thru this not too long ago with a parent and I found Elisabeth Kubler-Ross books so very helpful. Many amazing insights!

Blessings to all those "grongo" spirits out there!

"NOT ALL WHO WANDER ARE LOST...."

julian3345

Mar 22, 2005, 6:51 AM

Post #13 of 20 (2227 views)

Shortcut

Re: [talosian] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

I have posted recently on this subject after my mother died while staying with me in my home in Jerez, Zacatecas. To offer more specific information----- The total charges for: taking my mother's remains from my home to the ISSSTE sala de velacion; the rental of the coffin; the rental of the sala; the transport of her remains to the crematorium 40 miles away in Zacatecas (the city); the cremation itself; the purchase of an alabaster box to hold the ashes; the documentation of her death and filing of those papers with the Presidencia here in Jerez; the making of official copies of the death certificate - were $1200. The sala de velacion was the only optional charge and that was about $230. It is possible to keep the deceased in one's home for the visitation of friends and family immediately following the death. If you have your own urn or other container, that would make a slight difference. The very nice staff at ISSSTE told me I could take a month to pay these charges, if necessary, but the cremation or burial is done swiftly.
You will have to ask the airlines and coffin purveyors about shipping a body back to the US for burial...we did not consider that option as it was not my mother's wish to be buried.

The American Consulate must be notified. You must send them the local death certificate and some form of identification with photograph of the deceased. They will notify Social Security, Veteran's Administration, the US Dept. of State, etc and also provide you with up to 20 official copies of the death certificate at no charge. About a month after notification, the Consulate sends back the documents you submitted and the copies requested of the death certificate.

As to preparing for one's own demise and aftermath, I have signed a power of attorney document with a Mexican friend who knows my family and will secure my home and handle immediate expenses and procedures until members of my family arrive. A copy of this document is also being kept by the pastor of the church I attend here. If there are not family members or friends who will be expected to come to Mexico when you die, you might think about leaving this responsibility in the hands of friends you will make here during your retirement years. Joan

MG Rabon

Mar 22, 2005, 7:34 AM

Post #14 of 20 (2210 views)

Shortcut

Re: [talosian] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

I just wanted to say that I think that $1000us or LESS sounds pretty CHEAP. I've had the sad occasion to bury several relatives and friends in the US and the CHEAPEST funeral was $7600us.
Many states (in the USA) require that even those to be creamated must be embalmbed and several even specify that they must be creamated in a casket, greatly adding to the costs.

If I had my druthers, I'd really prefer not to be pickled and hermetically sealed in a metal box - preserved for all eternity. The nutrients in my body came from the earth and I think they should be returned to the earth - I don't want the be the ultimate end consumer.

I really don't care what they do with me when I'm gone (as I'll be gone) although the scientific donation idea has some merit from both a monetary standpoint and a moral one. I do like the idea that my death might somehow help someone to live longer someday.

I've had enough to worry about all my life, I'm certainly not going to worry about how much money I've got to spend AFTER I'M DEAD.

Compórtate bien, y si no puedes, invítame!
MG Rabon

(This post was edited by MG Rabon on Mar 22, 2005, 7:37 AM)

jackline

Mar 22, 2005, 8:21 AM

Post #15 of 20 (2189 views)

Shortcut

Re: [MG Rabon] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

My only real negative feeling was that in Mexico where things are so inexpensive, the cost of US$1,000 seemed very high. I'm wondering if it is anywhere near that when a Mexican dies?

And I wonder if there are any medical schools which will take a body to use in teaching. I'm thinking with the Mexican culture as it is, this may not be a real consideration for Mexicans.

Personally as I said, I'll let the empty shell go into a paupers grave or such rather than spend money otherwise designated to a particular source.

"Today is a good day to die." Klingon saying when going into battle.

Uncle Jack

Mar 22, 2005, 9:02 AM

Post #16 of 20 (2174 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jackline] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

"Today is a good day to fight - today is a good day to die."

Crazy Horse, (Oglala Sioux)

uj

MG Rabon

Mar 22, 2005, 9:06 AM

Post #17 of 20 (2173 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jackline] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

Some things are indeed cheap in Mexico, some things are MUCH more expensive than in the US. There are some things that are SO much more expensive that I can drive 2 1/2 days to the border, pay for gas, lodgings, the item, and the duty, and STILL be cheaper than the cost here in Mexico.

Funeral $1000us Mexico - $7600 in the US, that's just over 13% of the cost in the US.
Dental Crown $150us Mexico - $1200 in the US, that's 12.5% of the cost in the US.
Mozzo $60us Mexico - $240 in the US, that's 25% of the cost in the US.
19' LCD monitor $550 Mexico - $199 in the US, that's 276% of the cost in the US.
21' TV $300us Mexico - $99 in the US, that's 300% of the cost in the US.
My medical supplies $95us per unit Mexico - $22 in the US, that's about 430% of the cost in the US.

Land - acreage in the US is as low as $650us per acre (although most IS more), the cheapest I've seen in Mexico was about $6000us an acre, but most was as much as 10 times that. Power is more, broadband Internet is more, telephone is more, even gasoline until recently was more.

FOOD is cheap (maybe) depending on what you eat.

13% of the low-end cost in the US, that seems like a pretty good discount, right in line with the cost of dental work, how much cheaper does it have to be??

Compórtate bien, y si no puedes, invítame!
MG Rabon

Bill in NC

Mar 29, 2005, 10:32 AM

Post #18 of 20 (2006 views)

Shortcut

Re: [MG Rabon] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

$1000 US is about twice what I pre-paid 4 years ago to the LCS for when my mother dies
(she is currently in a Mexican nursing home with advanced Alzheimer's)

It doesn't seem unreasonable.

When transporting cremains in your carry-on luggage remember to choose a radio-transparent
cremains container.

If it can't be X-rayed, it can't be carried on the plane, as the TSA is prohibited from opening a cremains container: http://www.atca.org/singlenews.asp?item_ID=1073

lmaxine

Apr 3, 2005, 12:24 PM

Post #19 of 20 (1890 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bill in NC] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

I checked with LCS yesterday and the current pre-paid cost for cremation in Guadalajara is US$590. A friend checked directly with the funeral home in Guadalajara that the LCS has a link with is 5900 pesos. I think it was $500 when I first looked into it a few years ago.
"He upon whose heart the dust of Mexico has lain will find no peace in any other land." Malcolm Lowry

julian3345

Apr 5, 2005, 8:10 AM

Post #20 of 20 (1807 views)

Shortcut

Re: [lmaxine] Living in Mexico is cheap, but dying isn't. Some Questions.

Can't Post | Private Reply

The difference between the 12000 pesos our family paid for funeral services in Zacatecas and the services that could be contracted in advance in Guadalajara (5900 pesos) is not that extreme if you consider the choices we made. We rented the coffin and the sala de velacion so that friends could pay their respects; offer prayers and condolences and, in essence, observe this transition in culturally appropriate manner. None of those expenses is required and possibly they are not included in the 5900 peso funeral policy. The transport to Zacatecas for cremation added to the cost...presumably Guadalajara has more convenient facilities. I'm sure that the charges would be the same for Mexican families and, in fact, the reason for the 30 day payment option is that several family members may be contributing to the funeral costs -- often sending funds from far away. Joan