Harbor Master?

Harbor Master?

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From a very reliable source there is a government official with a title and who functions somewhat like our NoB Harbor Masters - maybe Director of the Port of Chapala. We can probably find him without too much trouble, but I am wondering if anyone has ever dealt with him? Maybe during clean-up activities or federal land concerns around the lake?

We will take along a fluent Spanish speaker to ease the fine points of the discussion.

I have tracked down all the paper work and regulations for boats coming into Mexico by land - both in Spanish and the English translation. Of course they are very familiar with these on the coasts and are set up for water movement of boats. Unfortunately this is a fresh water boat and trucking to a coast and entering by water then moving inland, according to my husband, is not an option.

I am told this is not completely without precedent, just that Lake Chapala probably isn't familiar with it. There are bass lakes north of Guad that hold competitions and are familiar with the procedures, so that is always an option, then coordinate the movement down to Chapala.

Overland movement requires the permission and licensure of the boat by the water destination official to be shown at the border crossing so no import tax is needed to be paid (recognized as a recreational item) and so that it is not misunderstood that the boat and trailer are NOT subject to the car regulations - ie. one person, one motor vehicle and title stuff. When the boat arrives at its destination it gets registered and periodically checked-up on where it is docked to make sure it is not sold or used for commercial purposes.

So anybody dealt with this fellow, or know people who know people who know people (sometimes that is the best way).

Thanks.

johanson

Feb 12, 2005, 12:29 PM

Post #2 of 27 (2513 views)

Re: [NEOhio] Harbor Master?

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Yes there is a harbor Master here. His office is in Chapala near the American legion and not to far from the Railroad station. I've only been there a few times and it was maybe 4 years ago, but he's for real and has at least 4 or 5 employees. At least that is how many I saw.

Feb 12, 2005, 1:34 PM

Post #3 of 27 (2498 views)

Re: [NEOhio] Harbor Master?

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OK, NE, we now all know that you have a boat and are sufficiently impressed that you own a boat but are distressed that you own a boat but would ask about title issues on this forum. This harbor master has probably never seen a new boat to be titled. I'll bet their new title registration book was printed in 1953 with four sets of carbons. He may not be able to find it. You may have to explain why sails are not required. If you find a harbor master with five employees at Ajijic pier and manage to wake the poor fellow up after years of slumber, tell him we have a new mayor and he is fired. He may have a heart attack when he sees water below the pier.

NEOhio

Feb 12, 2005, 3:39 PM

Post #4 of 27 (2469 views)

Re: [Bubba] Harbor Master?

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Bubba, you have been negative about the boat from the get go......so the methods of getting a boat into the country and registered shouldn't be of any interest to you. And your dig at me personally is unbecoming, even for you.

Boating is of interest however to others, so I choose to continue to post about what I am finding out. And fax to them the paperwork and regulations upon request, so they don't have to pay 17% at an inland border crossing that isn't familiar with the regs. Since the lake is just recovering boating hasn't been a option in the recent past. And there are a few of the dozens of dry docked boats at the club in La FLoresta scheduled for overhaul. And a few for sale if anyone is so inclined.

One fellow, in Guad, has purchased a project Chris Craft barrelback from the late 40s that is being restored near Lake Tyler in Texas and should be lakeside in early 2006. What a beautiful sight that will be, slicing thru the lake on a shiny morning, or cruising slowly in the moonlight.

My little 42 year old boat won't cut quite so fine a figure as that, but when we have the harbor masters permission you can hop on at the end of the pier and the dogs can come too.

Feb 12, 2005, 4:52 PM

Post #5 of 27 (2457 views)

Re: [NEOhio] Harbor Master?

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You hurt me deeply NE. Do they actually have lakes in Ohio? Maybe they have big ole lakes in places like Toledo or Cleveland. Remember that I am an Alabama boy who lived in San Francisco for four hundred years. Ain't no lakes in SF except Lake Merced but that's another story and so forth and so forth!!!.

patricio_lintz

Feb 12, 2005, 7:42 PM

Post #6 of 27 (2427 views)

Re: [johanson] Harbor Master?

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The office is in Chapala on the North side of La Christiana, I think at the corner of Morelos or a little more towards the harbor.

It has a large sign. Hard to miss.

johanson

Feb 12, 2005, 9:18 PM

Post #7 of 27 (2412 views)

Re: [Bubba] Harbor Master?

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Darn: I had to get a 60 inch HDTV so I could keep up with the Jones and have one of the few HD super bowl parties lakeside. Now it looks like I am going to have to buy a boat down here.

All kidding aside, I live on a small lake in NW WA in the summer. At lake Cavanaugh there are more than to two boats per household. It's considered quite normal to have several boats, be you a school teacher or a Msft employee. Owning a boat, does not have to mean wealth. My smallest boat, a 9 foot blowup, which is always loosing air is powered by a 5 HP motor and has a retail value of only a couple of hundred dollars.

I've owned two Christ Crafts, the first a 10 foot kit pram I assembled as a boy of 13.

My point? Some of us love boats. I've lived with them all of my life. And now with the lake filling up, maybe it's time to have one down here too. Ah maybe not, I'm getting too old. But it sure sounds like fun for you younger folks

Feb 13, 2005, 10:45 AM

Post #8 of 27 (2370 views)

Re: [johanson] Harbor Master?

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A refugee of Minnesota, the "Land of 10,000 Lakes" (actually there are more than 15,000), I've had my share of those holes in the water in which one continually pours money...8^). Canoes, Catamarans, runabouts, cabin cruisers; often one of each at the same time (with a self-imposed limit of 3 at any given time).

Don't have one now, but it would be great to have access to one on Laguna Chapala. The one concern about using a craft on the lake, however, is knowledge of the bottom. Chapala is in most areas very shallow - making use of an inboard seem really risky. Even an I/O or an outboard might have problems. Jetdrives might be a great alternative, but then you've got to be concerned about fouling the pump or wear and tear from lakebottom material you stir up. Thus I thought the best options were shallow draft sailboats, canoes, kayaks, rowboats, electric boats, etc.

It would be nice to know if a countour map of the lake bottom exists - with an ability to factor in varying lake levels. I've looked around but haven't found one as yet. If you do visit with the 'Harbormaster", NE; please post any info you think might of interest to a boating community. Also, I know there are a lot of informal accesses to the water, but it would be nice to know where the local authorities prefer access, egress and storage for watercraft(temporary & permanent). Anyone out there with any info besides NEohio? And Pete?(to whom we should thank for starting and contributing to this subject). Maybe a Laguna Chapala Gringo Y Mexicano Marine Assn. should be formed....=^..^=.

And Bubba, you irrascible SO_, I thoroughly enjoy your posts, but sometimes, it may be helpful to back off a bit when someone is trying to inform & help others. It's a fine line to walk/talk, but a tad of sensitivity seems to be in order in some cases. OTOH, if someone is asking for it, put the gloves on, by all means, and whack 'em upside the head...8^). That includes this writer.

NEOhio

Feb 13, 2005, 12:25 PM

Post #9 of 27 (2358 views)

Re: [mkdutch] Harbor Master?

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MKDutch and Pete, it has been impossible to find even the slightest hint of a contour map. The two members of the club at La Floresta that we had a chance to talk with indicated they hadn't seen one since the 70s. What a mess they have over there - dozens of boats in dry dock for years, a field of lirio stuck at the docks, whats left of them anyway, and muck, muck, muck. Too bad.

The boat has a 15-18" draft, and with a well-developed skill set learned from negotiating our own lirio problems on Lake Erie at the river inlets, we are figuring that a good GPSunit coupled with a depth finder thingy like fishermen use and a notched pole will suffice for a bit.

If that seems to work well it may be that a project could be in the offing....Just every time we go out we go slowly, take 10-15 plots each time and maybe we'll have some semblance of a map before long.

One of the most important things I learned in researching all this was that if you do it right and get the pre-approval paperwork that will allow the boat and its trailer to come in without being counted as one of our "vehicles". Also, with the harbor masters approval the trailer will not have to stay with the towing vehicle.

It used to be that a boat, whether on the coast or inland had to leave Mexican waters every 6 months. Now you can leave it, with the Harbor Masters permission (and where he says) as long as you return 1 time per year.

Also, insurance is a 3-type item - trailer and boat over land with vehicle, boat at dock and boat on water. Each is a separate policy - luckily USBoats here NoB is familiar with it, and offers it thru a Mexican agency. Its quoted at less than half what we presently pay.

olalla

Feb 13, 2005, 4:59 PM

Post #10 of 27 (2329 views)

Re: [mkdutch] Harbor Master?

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I'm curious about those flat bottomed boats they use around Lake Tahoe. They seem like they would be great in shallow water and with the lirio.

Feb 14, 2005, 8:46 AM

Post #11 of 27 (2268 views)

Re: [NEOhio] Harbor Master?

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AHA! So there WAS a contour map made at one time. That's good news. The bad news is that it will probably take a herculean effort to dig up a copy. The point here is that, with the possible exception of the area where the Lerma River enters the lake there has probably been no significant change to the rest of the lake bottom. Anyone got any ideas of a source? A historical society? Newspaper archives? Old book? The Harbor Masters' old files"\?

OTOH, perhaps now with the renewed interest in Laguna Chapala, perhaps one of the organizations trying to "Save the Lake", or a governmental agency (or the international organization that recently designated the lake endangered) would be interested in commissioning a new map. If they ever want to build tourism in the area, including the fishing crowd, knowledge of the lake's structure is critical. NOTE, I know, you can't eat the fish (yet...8^)), but have you ever seen a Fish Fry right after a BassTournament?

Also, to control navigation in order to prevent motorboats stirring up the toxins locked into the lake bottom, that info is critical. "No wake" or "Reduced Speed" signs or buoys are frequently used NOB to not only accomplish this purpose, but also to prevent shoreline erosion that wakes from high-speed boats can cause.

All this may seem premature, granted the fickleness of the Lake's water level and the speed at which most governments move, but I believe it is only a matter of time before the largest and "Crown Jewel" of Mexico's freshwater lakes will become a more treasured and intensively used natural resource - especially as their standard of living continues to improve and Guad's population rises...not to mention the impending arrival of hordes of Baby Boomer retirees from NOB....=^..^=...Dutch

1ajijic

Feb 14, 2005, 2:15 PM

Post #12 of 27 (2226 views)

Re: [mkdutch] Harbor Master?

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Sorry, Dutch, but, we have a tradition here of ignoring signs. You'll have to think of something else to control the waterways...free beer, etc.
http://www.newbeginningsmexico.com

Feb 15, 2005, 11:13 AM

Post #13 of 27 (2171 views)

Re: [mkdutch] Harbor Master?

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dutch, "don't eat the fish...yet" ?????

You mean you haven't tried the crunchy charales (correct me if I've got it wrong) with lime juice that they sell on the chapala dock and on scorpion island?

I reckoned that they had fried the heck out of any toxicity and they were quite yummy.

At last count the free yahoo group Chapala Paddlers had 8 subscribers with the first group paddle planned for Sparks' visit.

NE, have you had any contact with the something-like: Chapala Yacht Club? I drove up to ask if they would let me launch my kayak from their ramp. The caretaker said that they had lots of members at the weekends but he could probably help me out midweek. If you joined the club you would certainly meet a lot of Mexican boat owners. You might even get some practical information viz importing the cabin cruiser (is that what your boat is?)
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque

NEOhio

Feb 16, 2005, 6:15 AM

Post #14 of 27 (2114 views)

Re: [sandykayak] Harbor Master?

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Olalla, There were specific sections of what I have found that addressed pontoons and houseboats. Although I haven't the informaiton with me I vaguely recall that boats you could live aboard had specific requirements for entry and taxing. Although the government reasoning seem a little confluted boats of that type fell under some "housing" rules and were for the most part considered commercial.

Sandy, the same type of specificity on rules was applied to cabin cruisers, large sail boats and yachts, primarily regarding commercial use and length of stay or movement between ports. There were whole sections about crews in those sections - FMT, FM3, wages etc... mobility, length of stay, dumping wastes, etc.. Since you are in Miami the vision of a "lake worthy" boat and a "sea worthy" boat is very different. We have the big, big fiberglass cruisers and cigarette boats up here on Lake Erie, like what you see most of in Miami, and even a huge yachts that come up from Florida thru the seaway and spend the summer cruising the lake. They even have uniformed crew serving drinks and boats the size of mine hanging off the back for rides into the lakeside restaurants. Always fun to look at, but totally out of my league. And definitely NOT what I would want to see out on Lake Chapala.

Since I am curious I will email the fellow on the forum who runs a fishing charter, and maybe he can weigh in and clarify those rules for us. Its possible he just doesn't look at anything posted in this area.

MkDutch - Yikes about the speedboats. Although if its your vision, I do respect it.

For my vision, think Tony Curtis, zipping across Lake Tahoe, in a gleaming mahogany 26 footer, wind whipping thru his hair as he looks over the windsheld, and beautiful white water waking behind him - all under that blue Jalisco sky.

Feb 16, 2005, 8:10 AM

Post #15 of 27 (2093 views)

Re: [NEOhio] Harbor Master?

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<<For my vision, think Tony Curtis, zipping across Lake Tahoe, in a gleaming mahogany 26 footer, wind whipping thru his hair as he looks over the windsheld, and beautiful white water waking behind him - all under that blue Jalisco sky. >>

with a few of your friends, of course :)

my ex had a 24-Mako with center console and it was soo nice to head out for a drinkee-poo while we watched the sun set.....
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque

johanson

Feb 16, 2005, 12:25 PM

Post #16 of 27 (2057 views)

Re: [NEOhio] Harbor Master?

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With any luck, the below attachment will show that whatever surface area the lake picked up because of the increased rainfall as been lost to the water plant, LIRIO

The below picture was taken a few days ago from my bedroom porch

(This post was edited by johanson on Feb 16, 2005, 12:27 PM)

Attachments:

DSCN5605.JPG (165 KB)

Feb 24, 2005, 8:46 AM

Post #17 of 27 (1911 views)

Re: [sandykayak] Harbor Master?

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No, Sandy, I haven't eaten the charales...and don't intend to...=^..^=. As NEOhio knows, there's no effective way to get contaminants out of a fish oncethey get into their flesh. But limited consumption of them, as is recommended in the Great Lakes Area shouldn't be a problem. What one would like to see is a recommended limit/frequency consumption level posted by the Government, so those who relish these delicacies would know when they are overdoing it.

Haven't seen Tony Curtis running around Lake Mead in a 24-foot Chris Craft, but he does live in Las Vegas and exhibits his art work and appears at charity events here regularly. Still looks pretty good for a person of his age. Wayne Newton OTOH spends a fair amount of time on the lake, however, where his 55-foot Bluewater is docked. He flies to it from his home near McCarran Airport, piloting his own chopper.

Pete, has the amount of Lirio increased in the lake despite the efforts of Chapala (for one) to harvest it? Or had it just blown into your area and later migrated elsewhere on the water surface. The pic shows a LOT of it near Ajijic....Dutch

Feb 24, 2005, 9:08 AM

Post #18 of 27 (1905 views)

Re: [johanson] Harbor Master?

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gosh, pete, even though it was shocking to see the water waaay out there again...The scene took my breath away. thank you

brightened my day in Miami to see MOUNTAINS - to a Floridian...they be mountains.
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque

NEOhio

Feb 24, 2005, 9:54 AM

Post #19 of 27 (1894 views)

Re: [sandykayak] Harbor Master?

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Pete, It is a beautiful view you have and must be such a pleasure to look out on daily.

Sandy, never fear, plenty of open water remains.

Mkdutch, old Tony Curtis movie seen on late night TV as a pre-teen, vision has stayed in my mind's eye for years....we see Wayne hereabouts a couple times a year as his wife's family, the McCrones, live down the road. We will be in Las Vegas in May maybe you could share some of your Mexico experience with us over drinks. A couple other forum posters will be there then too.

Our paperwork is all together for meeting the Harbor Master - and a long list of questions too. I will let you all know what transpires after we return the first week of APril.

Any body else in the Vegas area, PM me, and we'll see about drinks for a group. That's another post, later.

Feb 24, 2005, 11:16 AM

Post #20 of 27 (1886 views)

Re: [NEOhio] Harbor Master?

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I'm afraid we're going to be two ships passing in the night, NE. We'll be home in Chula Vista instead of Vegas in May...8^). I'll be coming to Lakeside around the end of March or first of April, so if you're there then, perhaps we could meet at Tom's Bar or somewhere else to share experiences. You will meet with great weather in May, however...the months of mid-March through mid-June are some of the best weatherwise all year. We normally stay in Vegas through most of that period but a class reunion is changing our schedule this year.

Feb 24, 2005, 3:29 PM

Post #21 of 27 (1853 views)

Re: [sandykayak] Harbor Master?

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Sandy:

Rather than pay for charales in Chapala, why not just go trolling in your toilet the way your dog does? You'll come up with something just as wholesome that you can bread and fry that might taste pretty good with some tartar sauce.

I have this vision of all of these gringos on their cigarette boats with their Tony Curtis outfits zipping about Lake Chapala in between cleaning their propellers from lirio accumulation with Jack Lemon saying, " But you don't understand, the residue from the wake alone will make you sick as a dog", and hearing the reply, "Well no lake is perfect."

Sort of reminds me of the tourists in Kenya running about in their rented land rovers with their mail order Jungle Jim safari suits going, " Look, Mugumba, over there on the left, a lion." just as Mugumba's, friend Innocent Katanga pulls the lever to make the paper mache lion stand up to the sound of Tarzan's grita. You guys will be the most passing phenomenom we have seen in these parts since the carefully selected and well placed German students sponsored by Unilever came here to put up their Lake Chapala Discovery Trail signs last year. Has anybody seen one of those signs recently? Maybe you would like to ask where your donation to Amigos del Lago was allocated. PT Barnum had it right.

esperanza

Feb 24, 2005, 4:07 PM

Post #22 of 27 (1845 views)

Re: [sandykayak] Harbor Master?

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Here's a refresher course on lirio (water hyacinth) for anyone who needs it. The plant floats on the water, not rooted in the bottom of the lake, and blows around with the wind. Anywhere you see lirio, there is water underneath it. Hence the lake has not receded in Pete's picture; rather, the lirio is covering the water.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

tonyburton

Feb 24, 2005, 4:52 PM

Post #23 of 27 (1832 views)

Re: [esperanza] Harbor Master?

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Well, yes and no...
The water hyacinth can, and does, root on the lakebed when the water is shallow enough. Seeds can lie dormant on the dried-out former lakebed for years before germinating when water levels rise again. This is thought to be one of the factors helping to explain the various explosive periods of lirio growth in the past 100 years or so.
That said, Esperanza is completely correct that the vast majority, perhaps even all, of the lirio shown in the picture is free-floating.

Feb 25, 2005, 6:44 AM

Post #24 of 27 (1804 views)

Re: [Bubba] Harbor Master?

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bubba, if you're going to put it THAT way...it DOES sound pretty gross. I thought that the frying would sterilize them! darn...they were yummy.
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque

Feb 25, 2005, 11:25 AM

Post #25 of 27 (1767 views)