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annep

Feb 11, 2005, 9:40 AM

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SOCIAL SECURITY

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WELL I JUST GOT MY INFO FROM S.S. ON HOW MUCH MONEY I MIGHT GET WHEN I RETIRE, SO.......... WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IS HOW IS IT TO LIVE ON 1200 DOLLARS A MONTH? I WILL NOT HAVE ANY OTHER INCOME. IS IT POSSIBLE? WILL I BE SOMEWHAT COMFORTABLE? I WILL WANT TO LIVE IN A SMALLISH TOWN.
ANY INFO WOULD BE WONDERFUL.

Georgia

Feb 11, 2005, 11:03 AM

Post #2 of 37 (2898 views)

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Re: [annep] SOCIAL SECURITY

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Assuming one person: tight, legal for FM-3 in most consulates, and bare bones, but easier than in the US. You don't say if you will have health insurance from your prior employment or if you own a home that you will sell. But assuming a rent of $300/mo or less, public transportation, use of internet cafes instead of an in-home hookup, Mexican local TV, Mexican food, IMSS (for health care insurance if you have none), it is doable. There are those who feel you can not rent at this rate, but I know that you can.

esperanza

Feb 11, 2005, 11:14 AM

Post #3 of 37 (2892 views)

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Re: [Georgia] SOCIAL SECURITY

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For six years I lived quite well in Ajijic on $1200/month. That included rent of $525, 3X/week maid and 3X/week gardener, internet and separate phone line dedicated to it (plus phone line just for phone), light, gas, cable TV, car and its gasoline, etc. I'm not a consumer, so had no need to buy things.

I'm now in Guadalajara--since the end of November--and expenses are a little more, but not much more.

You can do it.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Carol Schmidt

Feb 11, 2005, 11:21 AM

Post #4 of 37 (2888 views)

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Re: [annep] SOCIAL SECURITY

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I know many people even in San Miguel, one of the more expensive towns, who live fairly well on $1200 a month, with rent around $400, including high speed internet and English language TV on cable. Buses are 36 cents, cabs are $1.35. and deluxe buses to anywhere are much cheaper than having a car, though some people even have a car on bare bones SS.

The big difference is going for the lower rent, $400 and under, doable even in San Miguel if you live a few blocks out of Centro in a Mexican area, and if you eat out only occasionally and then in Mexican restaurants for $4 an entire meal versus $40 a meal at the top of the line gringo restaurants, and you learn to eat the Mexican way--fresh fruits and veggies from the local shops, emphasis on beans and rice and corn tortillas for much of your protein instead of expensive meat cuts, buying cheap clothes and used clothes at the Tuesday Market and garage sales instead of the expensive gringo boutiques, getting used books and swapping books instead of buying all the latest at Amazon new prices, etc.

You can be very comfortable in Mexico on what would be near poverty levels in a US city if you live more like a poorer Mexican, and it is a healthier way of living overall. We all should be using meats only as flavorings, not as 20-ounce steak entrees, and walking instead of driving.

Even though prices in general here are higher than many people expect (shocking the people who still think they can get by on $200 a month or something), and it will cost about the same in Mexico to maintain the same standard of living you expected in the U.S., the difference is that you can live comfortably on a lower standard of living without keeping up with the Joneses.

Some 40 million Mexicans live on less than the minimum wage here, which is about $4.50 A DAY. The basic question is always, how much do you think you need to have to live? And it would be good to have some back up somewhere for medical emergencies even with insurance.

Do a search on this site for the many threads on prices of stuff in Mexico--I did some long posts on costs of various items recently.

Carol Schmidt

Georgia

Feb 11, 2005, 11:50 AM

Post #5 of 37 (2874 views)

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Re: [esperanza] SOCIAL SECURITY

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The only problem I see for our poster, and why I suggested s/he live "frugally" is that the indication is that there are absolutely no other funds. It's good to have a cushion, and there are those FM-3 renewal fees, insurance expenses, travel costs, etc. that seem to crop up. The poster indicates it's SS and nothing at all else. So, s/he'd have to budget for those annual fees and emergencies.

annep

Feb 11, 2005, 11:51 AM

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] SOCIAL SECURITY

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what are 300/400 mo apts like? how basic? will i need to supply the appliances? are these older buildings, any charm? i dont have a problem eating or shopping in the markets. i would have my own car, bring it or sell it here?

1ajijic

Feb 11, 2005, 12:59 PM

Post #7 of 37 (2853 views)

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Re: [annep] SOCIAL SECURITY

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As Georgia states the 1200 a month thing is fine as long as nothing goes wrong. That seems to be the problem with friends we have who live that close to the bone. An illness, a sudden health scare a car accident, a problem with the house and there is no money to fall back on. There are no safety nets here. I am pretty sure an acquaintance in similar fianancial circumstances was forced to forgo a needed heart cath procedure bacause she didn't have the money to pay for it.
http://www.newbeginningsmexico.com

El Queso Grande

Feb 11, 2005, 2:02 PM

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Re: [1ajijic] SOCIAL SECURITY

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You know, this kind of goes back to that same old thing which I see is 'Can you live NoB on $1,200 a month?'
I would think that the same advice applies that you may need a safty cusion in case something goes amis, north or south. One difference being that in the US there are some safty nets.
I would sure rather take my chances south and pray for the best.

dave

"I'm not so think as you drunk I am."

E-mail me at xalapaboy@aol.com

Jerry@Ajijic

Feb 11, 2005, 8:16 PM

Post #9 of 37 (2787 views)

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Re: [El Queso Grande] SOCIAL SECURITY

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Of course NOB you have Medicare, Medicade, Welfare, and many places a person can go to get a free meal, etc. Here there are none of these "safety nets". You have to be more prepared to pay your own way.

Marta R

Feb 11, 2005, 9:30 PM

Post #10 of 37 (2783 views)

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Re: [Jerry@Ajijic] SOCIAL SECURITY

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Well, perhaps (at least until they disappear, too). But here in the States, I couldn't begin to afford even routine medical care without Medicare etc. (which may go bye-bye the next time you blink), while in Mexico, apparently, I could. I mean, sheesh, my employer pays over a thou a month for health insurance for me and my husband and one child -- presumably that could cover all of us for a year in Mexico, and maybe have something left over for a few refrescos.

$1200/month, hereabouts, wouldn't get you into a one-bedroom in the nasty part of town.

Marta

Marlene

Feb 11, 2005, 9:57 PM

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Re: [Georgia] SOCIAL SECURITY

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Good points, and if you get away from the expat areas of town you will find lower rents. It's not for everyone, but it certainly can be economical.

raferguson

Feb 12, 2005, 12:55 AM

Post #12 of 37 (2762 views)

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Re: [annep] SOCIAL SECURITY

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I think that the big issue is health care. If you end up going north of the border to use Medicare, that can get difficult and expensive both. If your health stays basically good, you can live pretty close to the bone. But who knows what their health will be next year? One of my relatives was just diagnosed with cancer at age 42, she is a single mom with small children. Luckily she is fortunate enough to have a professional salary, health insurance, and relatives nearby. With any luck, she will have successful treatment and be able to go on with her life. What would you do if you were diagnosed with a major medical problem? Move back north to use medicare? Depend on Mexican health care? Could you afford to pay for major health care out of pocket, even at Mexican rates?

One of the members of this forum is planning to move closer to the US border to be closer to his health care providers. If that is really a priority, then it makes more sense to live within an hour of your health care provider, rather than move closer and still be hours away.

If you really have near zero assets you will be better off taking advantage of the many government programs in the USA, such as subsidized housing. If you have $50,000 in savings, then you should be able to deal with a range of problems without being in a financial crisis in Mexico.

Remember that many retirees work part time to help make ends meet. In Mexico, this is apt to be impossible due to Mexican law and low wages.

The other issue is who will care for you if you get sick? If you are living near family you can probably expect some help from them in a crisis. If you are in Mexico, what will you do?

I think that moving south of the border to save money is kind of a falacy. You might not really save money at all. You could probably make some lifestyle adjustments, move somewhere cheaper, and save a lot of money without leaving the USA. If you love Mexico and want to live there even if it is not significantly cheaper, that is different, but I think that people who move basically for financial reasons will probably be disappointed.

Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

Georgia

Feb 12, 2005, 3:51 AM

Post #13 of 37 (2757 views)

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Re: [annep] SOCIAL SECURITY

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I'll give you three examples: one is my casita, which is currently rented, but I think it's fairly typical of casitas in the area where I live: the municipality of Jocotepec: large tedroom, living room, kitchen with all appliances, covered terrace, two baths, furnished, includes gas, electric, maid 1x/wk, gardener, off street gated parking: $400/mo. Another is a large three bedroom house in Jocotepec, unfurnished, no appliances, tenant pays utilities, maid, gardener, etc. $300/mo. A friend pays about $325/mo. for a casita with two bedroom, two baths, utilities, furnished, etc.

Jerry@Ajijic

Feb 12, 2005, 6:00 AM

Post #14 of 37 (2742 views)

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Re: [chrisnmarta] SOCIAL SECURITY

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They are not talking about 1,200 for health insurance. They are talking about 1,200 for everything. I think that they could have trouble if they do not have more or at least a nest egg.

Ed and Fran

Feb 12, 2005, 7:06 AM

Post #15 of 37 (2735 views)

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Re: [raferguson] SOCIAL SECURITY

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"I think that moving south of the border to save money is kind of a falacy. You might not really save money at all. You could probably make some lifestyle adjustments, move somewhere cheaper, and save a lot of money without leaving the USA. If you love Mexico and want to live there even if it is not significantly cheaper, that is different, but I think that people who move basically for financial reasons will probably be disappointed. "

Great post, Richard. I think this one paragraph really sums it up well, at least from my point of view.

Regards

E(&F)

Jerry@Ajijic

Feb 12, 2005, 7:25 AM

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Re: [Ed and Fran] SOCIAL SECURITY

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I think that if someone is really wanting or having to live on a very limited budget they need to look further south than Mexico.

Don

Feb 12, 2005, 8:22 AM

Post #17 of 37 (2722 views)

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Re: [annep] SOCIAL SECURITY

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I think you can do it, especially if you don't live in a tourist or heavy "gringo" populated area. But you will need some money to be able to search for the town and place you want. Can't do that very well over the internet. Once you find a place and settle in, $1,200 U.S. should give one person a confortable life. I know a "gringo" couple that have rented a nice one story, small 3 bedroom, two bath home for $150 U.S. per month. They had to supply appliances, furniture and pay all utilities. The place is very clean, in a good, secure location and only two blocks from the center of town. It would be nice to have a little nest egg off to one side for emergencies.

Marta R

Feb 12, 2005, 11:23 AM

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Re: [Jerry@Ajijic] SOCIAL SECURITY

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Jerry, I didn't make my point very well, which was this: If $1200/mo was my only income, the entirety would be eaten up by health insurance here NOB. If $1200/mo was my only income, the entirety would be eaten up by rent here NOB. From what Georgia points out, my $1200/mo would get me adequately sheltered and fed in Mexico, and the health insurance premium would be affordable.

I agree heartily about moving to Mexico only if you really want to (aside from the fact that you can live on a higher scale than you could here on comparable funds). And I agree that it's a very good idea to have a nest egg (which many folks don't, thanks to the dot com burst ... not to mention any other government "surprises" headed down the pike at us).

Me, I don't want to move to Mexico just for the cost of living. I want to move for the carnitas.

Marta

julian3345

Feb 12, 2005, 12:10 PM

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Re: [annep] SOCIAL SECURITY

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For the sake of comparison, HALF of all Mexicans live on less than $300 /month. In my area of north central Mexico, it is very easy to live on $1200 per month. That is $40 dollars a day! A princely sum in many parts of Mexico. The gal who rings up your items at Walmart is paid 1000 pesos every two weeks! The highest rent paid by an ex-pat in my town is $200/month for a huge 7 room colonial house and patio with garage on the most beautiful and historic street. I would suggest looking into small towns away from the intense gringolandia concentrations; forget about owning and maintaining a car or making frequent trips to the border. Bring in as much stuff as you can afford to ship on your menaje de casa because buying or replacing nice things in MX is expensive. Buy your food in the local open market and eat seasonally as much as possible. My DSL line at home costs about $1.30/ day which compares very favorably with the cyber cafe rates of 10-12 pesos an hour. Resourcefulness and willingness to understand and live "on the local economy" are crucial. You will need some extra start-up money as rentals are often bare bones and in need of redecoration at least and often, considerable renovation, but once you are settled, your rent can only be raised legally 10% a year and many landlords never raise the rent. Unless you have a complicated health problem, you can do just fine with IMSS insurance or pay as you go medical attention. Buena suerte! Joan

gbatrucks

Feb 14, 2005, 10:20 AM

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Re: [julian3345] SOCIAL SECURITY

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"...but once you are settled, your rent can only be raised legally 10% a year and many landlords never raise the rent."

Now THAT'S a little factoid I wasn't aware of, and is important to us as we would like to rent for awhile to check out an area, but I could see rents raising expoentially as the boomers head south. Any of our 'legal beagles" out there have an opinion on this 10% thing?
"The trouble with life is there's no background music."

(This post was edited by gbatrucks on Feb 14, 2005, 10:23 AM)

Esteban

Feb 14, 2005, 10:43 AM

Post #21 of 37 (2512 views)

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Re: [gbatrucks] SOCIAL SECURITY

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The ten percent raise per year will be the least of your worries. Landlords vary in personalities and business styles like any other group of people. I wouldn't sign a lease over a year. That will give you time to get to know your landlord and his/her style. You'll be able to assess the good, the bad and the ugly. It will also give you time to find another place that could put you in a better situation. As usual, as I have reiterated a million times on these forums, forming an interpersonal relationship with your landlord will ALWAYS lead to a better understanding of what is expected.

bobich

Feb 15, 2005, 11:23 AM

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Re: [annep] SOCIAL SECURITY

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Well, it's unfortunate that no retirement planning was ever done. Financial independence at retirement is not difficult to attain for even the lower-middle class if one starts early enough and has a good advisor. But, no use crying over spilt milk.

The good news is that one CAN live better in Mexico than in the US on $1,200. A lot depends on what part of the US and what part of Mexico you are comparing. The other posts make some good points. Personally, I think there are various reasons many gringos have a hard time making ends meet in Mexico. Many want foods they are used to. So, they end up buying lots of imported foods or they won't eat at casual, simple Mexican restaurants (which often have better food anyway!). Some do not use Mexico's excellent public transportation and insist on having a car. Other posters have pointed out other examples of not living like a mexican. These people should be asking themselves why the heck they chose Mexico in the first place! As other posters have mentioned, saving money should never be the only reason for living in Mexico. Lower costs should be looked at as a great fringe benefit. However, unless you enjoy the culture and mexican way of life, you will not be happy.

Another big way (maybe the biggest way) to save money is to not live where there is a big ex-pat community (SMA, Ajijic, etc.). Yes, I understand that an ex-pat community appeals to many, but the savings will be huge on rent and restaurant meals. You just have to compare SMA and Guanajuato to understand this. Besides, many of us prefer towns with smaller or even no ex-pat communities. If language is your fear and reason for wanting to always be around other foreigners (or mexicans who speak english) then you should learn spanish. There are loads of good language schools all over the country and I think a real attempt at learning spanish should be made even if one lives in an ex-pat colony like SMA or Ajijic. Many gringos do not approve of foreigners in the US who won't even make an attempt at learning english. Some of us should practice what we preach.

annep

Feb 15, 2005, 12:04 PM

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Re: [bobich] SOCIAL SECURITY

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THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE, HIND SIGHT IS 20/20.......ON TO THE FUTURE. WHEN I DO TRAVEL IN MEXICO I PREFER THE SMALLER TOWNS AND EAT AND SHOP IN THE MARKETS.
ARE APARTMENTS LIKE THEY ARE HERE OR CAN I RENT A SMALL HOUSE? I DONT EVEN NEED TO BE IN THE CENTER OF TOWN. I HAD ASKED EARLIER ABOUT A CAR, SHOULD I LEAVE IT OR BRING IT?
THANK YOU ALL WHO HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO ANSWER ME AND GIVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS!
ANNE

Gary Anderson

Feb 15, 2005, 1:56 PM

Post #24 of 37 (2407 views)

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Re: [annep] SOCIAL SECURITY

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Hi, Anne -

The replies posted above all make good points, particularly as regards health care. That said, it's difficult to generalize about whether one can live in Mexico on $1200 US per month because so much depends on where one chooses to live and their lifestyle. Here in Ajijic, I live in a smallish 2BR house, fully furnished, off-street parking, large back yard, which I lease for $450 US per month. I must say, however, that my situation is not typical, as the owner of the house is a respected local Mexican businessman who is also a good friend, so were it not for that fact, I wouldn't be living in this house. The owner's father is my next-door neighbor and gardener (he's back there now as I write this, watering the vegetable garden he planted a couple weeks ago) who watches over the house when I'm away, and the owner's aunt is my maid, so I've got a pretty good deal here. However, their pay is not included in the rent. After adding in utilities, I figure it costs me about $750 US a month to live here, including everything but food and entertainment. As for health care, I have IMSS but pay as I go for the little things. I enjoy good health, so this has not yet been a significant factor and I therefore can't speak to it with any authority.

As for bringing your car, again it depends. Public transportation is cheap and plentiful. But I brought mine and, living in a small town with Guadalajara shopping centers 40 miles away, wouldn't want to be without it. Gasoline is expensive here, about $2.10 a gallon, mas o menos. But I live right in town and walk a lot more than I drive, so the cost of gas isn't much of a factor for me. But I'm glad I have my wheels, if only for the freedom they provide me in being able to just hop in and go whenever I wish. I wouldn't bring a sports car, or some exotic or off-brand that would be next to impossible to get repaired if it should break. No Hummers or other such monsters- too big for the narrow streets. In this town, you could clog up traffic for hours just trying to get around a corner in one of those things, you might as well be driving an 18-wheeler. I think a small-to-mid-sized 4X4 SUV is perfect for Mexico. When I do drive, it's a low-mileage '97 Grand Cherokee which works just fine around here. There are several GC's in Ajijic. We also see lots of VW's, Nissans, Toyotas, etc. locally.

My suggestion would be to carefully research your two or three top candidates for places to live, visit them, get to know some people, ask lots of questions, and then make your decision based on what you learn and your anticipated lifestyle.

Hope this helps,
GA
____________________________________________________________
"There was only one catch and that was Catch-22 . . . ." - Joseph Heller

(This post was edited by Gary Anderson on Feb 15, 2005, 2:01 PM)

Adrian

Feb 15, 2005, 1:56 PM

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Re: [bobich] SOCIAL SECURITY

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Here in Tampico, I have the aquaintance of an elderly ex-US Navy sailor. He lives alone on his military pension of US$800 per month in a small (2 room) casita in a slummier part of town close by the docks.

His rent is MN$1300, electricity c.MN$600 a month (no AC), Sky TV is MN$600 a month and he eats well for about MN$2000 a month or less. he takes the route-cars and microbuses everywhere and seems happy enough.

As he says, living in Houston on a military pension would only just keep one off the streets and eating dogfood. Here in Mexico, he can live quite reasonably.

Adrian

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