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Bubba

Jan 15, 2005, 8:41 AM

Post #1 of 30 (4412 views)

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Legalizing a U.S. Plated Pickup truck

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It is time to legalize my 10 year old U.S. plated Ford ranger so I can sell the thing locally in Ajijic or Guadalajara. Bubba would like to avoid the expense of driving to Laredo to do this plus I understand that used pickups are more valuable down here than stateside. Has anyone done this locally without the hassle of driving to the U.S. border? I don't really care about exporting the thing for the record since I will never import another car to Mexico from the U.S. again. My motive for legalizing the vehicle is so that I can sell it to a Mexican national legally and avoid any future ownership liability.

rjkveton

Jan 15, 2005, 11:04 AM

Post #2 of 30 (4389 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Legalizing a U.S. Plated Pickup truck

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As far as I know this can only be done at the border by an import broker who is specifically licensed to handle this tramite. Every person I know who has attempted to do this locally has ignored my advice, spent time and money in pursuit of this, and failed in the end. So Bubba you can be added to the list if you like, or perhaps accomplish the legal/bureaucratic breakthrough of the new millennium if you can get this done. Check with the office in Chapala that handles vehicle registrations, its at the back of a suite of law offices just west of Banco Serfin.

My advice would be enjoy your trip to the border, or better yet, if the buyer is mexican, take them with you and let them worry about it, while you are enjoying a bus trip back to Ajijic with a pocket full of pesos.

Bubba

Jan 15, 2005, 4:12 PM

Post #3 of 30 (4364 views)

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Re: [rjkveton] Legalizing a U.S. Plated Pickup truck

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Thanks, RJ. I take it that all I need do is export the truck the week after its 10th birthday, drive back into the Nuevo Laredo border zone without re-importing it and sell the truck to my Mexican buyer with the admonision that he go to an import broker in Nuevo Laredo and legalize the vehicle before driving back to Ajijic. If he fails to do so then that becomes his problem and I am off the hook for future ownership liability. I presume that this can be done in Nuevo Laredo rather than across the U.S. border in Laredo. Otherwise, I anticipate a problem getting my friend a visa to enter the U.S.

I will not join your creative friends in attempting to accomplish this legalization in Jalisco. I have paid enough tuition to the University of Living Abroad. Damned if I'm going for my masters degree.

Carron

Jan 15, 2005, 4:30 PM

Post #4 of 30 (4359 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Legalizing a U.S. Plated Pickup truck

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Several years ago we sold our 1994 Buick Century to our landlady in exchange for several months rent. We simply gave her the car and all our ownership documents and she took it from there. She is a lovely older lady who looks like a model and never appears in public without the full regalia of makeup, high heels, and nice clothes. She giggled and said she was only asked whether the car had been stolen. She said no and paid a small fee. She has been driving it around town for a long time now.

The point of this is that perhaps you should let the Mexican buyer of your truck handle all the arrangements for the purchase. He can probably do it without your having to be involved.

esperanza

Jan 15, 2005, 5:12 PM

Post #5 of 30 (4356 views)

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Re: [Carron] Legalizing a U.S. Plated Pickup truck

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The most recent period for nationalizing pickup trucks 10 years old and older was between Sept 15 and Nov 30. That period is past and it's not possible to simply nationalize a truck at this point. It will be necessary for the person wanting to import (note import, as opposed to nationalize) the vehicle to pay the full duty as well as meet any other requirements.

During the most recent period for nationalizing a 10-year-old pickup, it was possible to take care of the paperwork in a number of Mexican cities, including Guadalajara. Importation, on the other hand, is only possible at the border and is quite expensive.

There may be another period of time when it's possible to nationalize 10-year-old pickups, but it hasn't been announced yet.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jan 15, 2005, 5:13 PM)

Cynthia7

Jan 15, 2005, 9:11 PM

Post #6 of 30 (4334 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Legalizing a U.S. Plated Pickup truck

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If your pick up is on your FM2 or 3 papers it is on there forever unless you turn the car papers in at the border. That's ok if you don't want another US plated car. I have a friend who sold her US stickered car in the states and doesn't have a bill of sales for it and can't (easily) get this resolved.

rjkveton

Jan 16, 2005, 7:36 AM

Post #7 of 30 (4313 views)

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Re: [rjkveton] Random Ramblings

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Selling a foreign plated vehicle in the interior of Mexico is illegal, plain and simple, for the seller, not for the Mexican buyer. There is no guarantee that such a transaction will not resurface someday and bite you in the rear. A sale in the frontera zone is legal if handled with the proper tramite.

Bubba will find plenty of brokers/dealers/licensiados at or close to the international bridge to handle this, its big business there. I think you get some sort of a bill of sale proving the transfer, and along with the Comprobante de Returno for the Import Sticker, which you should get first, and then go find a broker, you should be home free. I'm not ever sure a trip across the bridge is required. Even if you had to be on one side of the border and the Mexican buyer on the other, the broker will know how to accomplish this. Your sale may actually be to the broker or Mexican used car dealer, it will be interesting to find out.

Given the high cost of the import, it may be just as easy to drive across the border and sell it to a Texas used car dealer. Call a few in Laredo and find out if this type of pickup is in high demand for export to Mexico. You might get as much or more for it this way, and with much less hassle, and all done legally in Texas. But since Bubba refers to "getting his friend a visa to enter the U.S." it sound like the buyer has been chosen. Hope the cost of the import, and I have no clue how this is calculated, does not kill the deal.

Despite the fact that Bubba feels he will never import another foreign plated car into Mexico, never say never. IMHO its always better to get the Comprobante de Returno.

I'm surprised Bubba does not hold at least a Master's Degree and is not going for a PhD (piled higher and deeper).

(This post was edited by rjkveton on Jan 16, 2005, 7:38 AM)

esperanza

Jan 16, 2005, 9:07 AM

Post #8 of 30 (4293 views)

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Re: [rjkveton] Random Ramblings

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It is perfectly legal for a foreign owner to nationalize his/her truck with USA plates. The window for that legalization has to be open, however. The list of cities where nationalization can be accomplished is usually fairly long. The last list included Guadalajara, Morelia, and about 10 other cities.

Once the car is nationalized, the foreign owner can sell it in Mexico to whomever he/she wants.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jan 16, 2005, 9:07 AM)

Papirex

Jan 16, 2005, 1:03 PM

Post #9 of 30 (4265 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Legalizing a U.S. Plated Pickup truck

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It seems that like everything else in Mexico, when it comes to nationalizing a Pickup it is probably done differently in each state. Here in Morelos the window for nationalizing them opened in December, and closes at the end of this month. Model years from 1970 to 1997 are eligible to be nationalized under this program. We don’t need to take the vehicle out of the country, or to the border.

The program is for nationalizing camionetas. Camionetas include pick up trucks, and vans, at least that is the way the law is interpreted here. When we found out that vans, as interpreted here include not only cargo vans, but passenger vans as well, and that our cargo trailer can also be nationalized, we decided to go ahead and nationalize our van and trailer. We nationalized our car during the last amnesty a little over four years ago.

The catch 22 is that the vehicle can only be nationalized in the name of a Mexican citizen. That’s no problem for us; my wife is a Mexican citizen, the temporary import permit is in my name. There would be no reason we could not then put it back in both our names, once the title is in her name. We will just leave it in her name unless there is some good reason to put it back in both our names, maybe an insurance requirement, etc. You never know what goofy things may be required here. Basically it is her van anyway, she seldom drives our car, and I seldom drive the van.

We are using an organization here to do all the legwork, ONAPPAFA, AC (Organizacion Nacional Para el Patrimonio Familiar, Associacion Civil). They have their own lawyers, they will see that the temporary import permit is canceled, etc.

We will need to join ONAPPAFA, AC, The afiliacicón is $1,500 Pesos, the fee to nationalize the van is $1,550 Pesos. That comes to about $273 US Bucks, not too bad.

We were told to not even try to do anything during the holidays. We called them today, and were told the things we must provide, money, 3 copies of the title, my wife’s voting card, her drivers license, our comprobante de domiclio, 2 photos of my wife, 8 photos of the vehicles, 2 front, back, and each side. As usual, when the weight of the paper equals the weight of the car, we will have given them enough to do the job.

The point of this post is this: don’t count on anything being done uniformly throughout this country.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

(This post was edited by RexC on Jan 16, 2005, 3:28 PM)

pam16

Jul 30, 2005, 7:23 AM

Post #10 of 30 (4118 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Random Ramblings

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This pickup truck thing is very confusing indeed! Esperanza, can you explain to me about windows of opportunity? Most of this chat is about last January, and I want to bring a vehicle in in September. I have got a nice little Ford Escort for the purpose, but I would sell it in a heartbeat if I could nationalize a pickup. My Mexican friend
tells me that "pre 1990" pickups may be nationalized by gringos in Tamaulipas, but then, he's not a gringo so maybe he's confused. Do we have a window now? How do I find out?

I would rather do this than take the Escort, because although everyone seems convinced that one's sticker from the border, although for 6 months, is really good for the length of your FM3, I would rather be safe than sorry. And what about that credit card they take from you at the border? Don't they keep charging you if you fail to reappear? Or do they only do that with FMT holders? Thanks all, for your help.

esperanza

Jul 30, 2005, 8:26 AM

Post #11 of 30 (4102 views)

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Re: [pam16] Random Ramblings

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Quote

Pam, your information is jumbled. Let's straighten things out.

Nationalization of Pickups

First of all, a pickup has to be 10 years old or older to be nationalized. The time frame includes any pickup model year 1995 or before.

Second, to the best of my knowledge you can nationalize a 1995 or prior pickup at any border crossing at any time. The cost will be several hundred dollars.

Third, the window of opportunity is applicable only if you want to nationalize the pickup in the interior of Mexico. There is no opportunity to do this at present and probably will not be another until sometime in 2007, if then. President Fox has clearly stated that he is opposed to another window of opportunity for nationalization during the remainder of his presidency.

Temporary Importation of Vehicle

It's important to not that any foreign vehicle coming into Mexico by this means is temporarily imported, whether you have the vehicle in Mexico for a week or for the rest of your life. When you import your vehicle, you sign papers saying that you will not sell the vehicle in Mexico--that's why it's called temporary importation. When you remove the vehicle permanently from Mexico, you must stop at the export point, prior to crossing the border into the USA, and allow Mexican authorities to scrape the sticker off your windshield and give you an exportation document.

First, any person crossing the border into Mexico, whether with an FMT (tourist card) or an FM-3 has the privilege of importing a vehicle that he or she owns.

Second, the import sticker for that vehicle is valid as long as the person's immigration status is valid. Read the law here:
http://rollybrook.com/article_106.htm. There is no reason to be concerned about being 'safe or sorry'. This is the law. When I drove a car with USA license plates, I always carried a copy of the law in my glove box. If I was questioned about the validity of my import sticker--which I had obtained in 1998 and never renewed--I simply handed the officer a copy of the law and said, "If I understand this correctly, my permit is valid." As soon as the officer read the law, the 'problem' of validity disappeared.

Third, if you enter Mexico using an FMT (tourist card), you are entitled to request a 180-day stay. That's the maximum allowed by law for a tourist card. It cannot be renewed. Your car will be legal for the full 180 days. By day 180, you and your vehicle must be out of Mexico. The people at Hacienda (they're the ones who collect the vehicle import tax) will not charge your credit card again.

Fourth, if you have an FM-3 visa (either obtained at your nearest Mexican consulate or obtained here in Mexico at INAMI), your vehicle sticker is valid for the entire one-year term of the FM-3. When you renew your FM-3, the import sticker automatically renews. You are not charged again--the import fee is one time only. The current one-time charge for the temporary importation of a vehicle is approximately $30.00 USD.

This process of temporarily importing a vehicle to Mexico undoubtedly seems complicated and stressful to someone who has never done it. Once you've gone through it, you'll see that it is neither difficult nor time-consuming. You'll realize that your fears have been groundless.

Unless you truly want a pickup, keep the Escort.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Bubba

Jul 30, 2005, 10:38 AM

Post #12 of 30 (4075 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Random Ramblings

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I was surprised to see this thing resurface but since it did I want to thank Rvelton (did I get that right?) for the PHd quip. I missed it originally. We in the Secret Society of Phertilizer Spreaders often recognize an accomplished brother or sister when passed on the internet.

I gave up on selling the 1995 Ford (Fohd) Ranger for several reasons:
(1) Those old California plates may become collector's items when anybody who can leave the damn place for Mexico does so.
(2) The "Governator" and his successors will follow me to my grave to get those registration fees and penalties I haven't paid since 2001 and don't ever intend to pay again since I would have to drive back to the dreaded California to get my smog test.
(3) Legalization is expensive and cumbersome if I have to go back to Laredo again.
(4) The older and sloppier I become the older and sloppier my Ranger becomes. We look so bad now the cops no longer pull me over for mordida and, in fact, in compassion for another fallen human being, throw their spare change through the window when I pass.
(5) My 145 pound Neopolitan "Puppy" loves that truck so much that he has crapped in it a couple of times so he really feels at home in there and if he ever crapped in my wife's (relatively) new Nissan, we would both be living on a houseboat in Lake Chapala immediately thereafter.
(6) The Ranger's suspension system has gotten so used to the potholed and beat up streets of Ajijic that, if I drove it on a normal thorougfare it would probably leap about like a drunken Professor Irwin Corey.
(7) I get endless pleasure driving around Six Corners (read "The Real Ajijic" for those of you unfamiliar with that town) watching local kids screeching with delight when they see my enormous puppy and his enormous dad driving through the neighborhood.

They may bury me in that truck. Some of you would like to bury me sooner than later but only Allah can grant or take life without getting into trouble.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Jul 30, 2005, 10:58 AM)

rjkveton

Jul 30, 2005, 11:22 AM

Post #13 of 30 (4062 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Random Ramblings

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IMHO a wise choice with the pickup Bubba, sounds like "old shoe syndrome" has comfortably set in with you, the pickup, and your pup. I'm getting all choked up as I write this, and feel the conferring of an honorary MS degree is in order, once we can determine the proper venue and work out the guest list. I've heard that Danza del Sol hotel, where the new Melanie's restaurants is located, is owned by one of the richest families in Mexico who also own Un. de Guad., so perhaps they will confer the degree if we hold the bash there. Now all you need to do is get those S. Dakota tags and you'll be all legal, well at least the pickup.

shoe

Jul 31, 2005, 5:00 AM

Post #14 of 30 (3996 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Random Ramblings

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Esperanza, I have a question or it might be a clarification.

When I changed from a FMT to a FM3 in Mexico, I was told that I have one year to get to the border and change my sticker. The sticker that was on there was tied to the FMT and I needed one tied to my FM3. Was this correct? I did it without any question as it made sense.

And rjkveton, please be careful about throwing around a term like "old shoe syndrome". I may be old but I do not know what syndrome I am part of, or cause.

Shoe

Nothing is intrinsically good or evil, but its manner of usage may make it so.
-St. Thomas Aquinas

(This post was edited by shoe on Jul 31, 2005, 5:08 AM)

rjkveton

Jul 31, 2005, 6:05 AM

Post #15 of 30 (3985 views)

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Re: [shoe] Random Ramblings

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Well Shoe, I can assure you that based on your profile pic, nobody could possibly conclude that you are an "old shoe".

As far as your question about the import sticker, it is NOT necessary to get it changed, because changing from an FMT to an FM-3 does not change your "calidad migratoria" which is no-inmigrante.

From article 106 of the Ley Aduenara:

"IV. Por el plazo que dure su calidad migratoria, incluyendo sus prórrogas..."

Changing from FMT to FM-3 is apparantly considered "una prórroga de su estancia" (my interpretation). I'm still driving around after three years with the sticker I got under an FMT, as I sure others are.

pam16

Jul 31, 2005, 5:13 PM

Post #16 of 30 (3911 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Random Ramblings

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Experanza, thank you for a very enlightening discussion. My information is extremely muddled, and I am forever trying to straighten it out.

The pickup thing sounds like a pretty good deal for us. One of our properties is a ranch, after all, and we're going to have to have one sooner or later. It may cost more, but it eliminates the problems we will engender back in New York. New Yorkers must turn in their plates or keep paying insurance and registration fees in New York forever, regardless if the car never rolls on a New York road again. Penalty is loss of NYS driver's license. I am sure other states are more reasonable, but I live here. The Escort may go yet, but maybe not now.

Your answer was so reasonable and clear, I am going to hunt up another string with you in it about corporations and visas!

alex .

Aug 1, 2005, 7:54 AM

Post #17 of 30 (3867 views)

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Re: [pam16] Lose the Escort

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I had one in Tijuana for my wife to drive: it didn't take long for the topes to beat the crap out of the bottom of the poor thing. It just sits too low to be useful. Or maybe it was my wife's driving?
Alex

Bubba

Aug 1, 2005, 9:17 AM

Post #18 of 30 (3844 views)

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Re: [rjkveton] Random Ramblings

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Thanks, Rjkveton:

Since I live within spiiting distance of the Danza del Sol, you're on. Melanie's has a nice lay out there.

I now find that, since we are going for FM-2 visa status, I must legalize my Ranger in the next five years but under those circumstances I think a border trip will be unnecessary. I'll just be pleased as punch if either my Ranger or I can still make it to the border in five years. One nice thing; by that time, the way things are going, there won't be much traffic in Nuevo Laredo.

I was on the floor watching Steinfeld this morning when Kramer moved to the Boca del Sol Condominiums, Phase 3 in Boca Raton and Steinfeld exclaimed in front of his parents, "But, you can't move there, that's where people move to die; with the exception of you. of course, mom and dad."

pam16

Aug 2, 2005, 2:08 PM

Post #19 of 30 (3759 views)

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Re: [alex .] Lose the Escort

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I would love to lose the Escort, but that would depend on getting a few more answers about nationalizing pickup trucks. Esperanza says any 10 year old pickup truck may be nationalized at a border crossing for several hundred dollars. This sounds wonderful. But does one have to have a certain type of visa? Or can you just do it with at FMT? And how does one proceed? What papers should be in order (besides the US registration and insurance it takes to get it to the border) upon arrival at the border? Does one get Mexican insurance prior to the trip or may it be obtained at the border? Sorry to be such a dufus, everybody, but this is only my third trip and I didn't discover this website until after the last one. Thanks all.

pam16

Aug 2, 2005, 2:16 PM

Post #20 of 30 (3756 views)

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Re: [rjkveton] Legalizing a U.S. Plated Pickup truck

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Which side of the border is this import broker on? Do you know more details of how this works? I would like to drive a US plated pickup, as I understand it 1995 or older, to the Brownsville-Matamoros border crossing, put Mexican plates on it, and then drive it to my ranchito in La Pesca and leave it there. Then I will have it when I fly down. But I'm clear up in New York, and I very much don't want to get sent home if I don't qualify for something. What kind of a visa do you have to get to do this? What paperwork do you need on the truck? When do you acquire the Mexcian insurance, before you start out on the trip or at the broker's. Any light you could shed on the subject would be most welcome. Thank you.

rjkveton

Aug 2, 2005, 3:06 PM

Post #21 of 30 (3745 views)

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Re: [pam16] Legalizing a U.S. Plated Pickup truck

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What I know is what I have already written, that there are plenty of brokers advertising this service on both sides of the border of Hidalgo/Reynosa, and I'm certain the same applies in Brownsville/Matamoros and other crossings.

Here's a link that may help you determine what type of pickup can be imported and what the requirements are.

http://www.aduanas.sat.gob.mx/webadunet/aga.aspx?Q=ImpTempVehiculos_Tema3

pam16

Aug 3, 2005, 6:46 AM

Post #22 of 30 (3686 views)

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Re: [rjkveton] Legalizing a U.S. Plated Pickup truck

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Thank link contained a little paragraph which seemed, if I understood it right, about how every once in awhile there is an amnesty for vehicles in the country with questionable legality. The last one was in 2001, and lasted only 12o days. I shall look on the web and see if I can find any of these brokers. Reynosa would be a good crossing for me; I have reason to visit McAllen, but again I can't drive a truck down there even knowing there are brokers if I don't know what to bring. Thanks. I'll let everybody know what I come up with.

esperanza

Aug 3, 2005, 6:56 AM

Post #23 of 30 (3681 views)

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Re: [pam16] Legalizing a U.S. Plated Pickup truck

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The amnesty that you mention is that 'window of opportunity' that I talked about in an earlier post.

The most recent one was from September 15 through November 30, 2004.

Unless something changes drastically, there won't be another one before 2007. As I mentioned, President Fox is opposed to it.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

LindaM

Aug 3, 2005, 3:34 PM

Post #24 of 30 (3621 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Legalizing a U.S. Plated Pickup truck

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One caveat, Bubba. I read in the Guadalajara Misreporter (so take it for what it's worth!) that you can only get liability insurance on automobiles that originally had US plates and were subsequently leagilized. I only know one person who has done this and the car was so old she didn't want comprehensive anyway. If you think you will want full coverage you might check with your insurance agent first.

Don

Aug 3, 2005, 4:12 PM

Post #25 of 30 (3615 views)

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Re: [LindaM] Legalizing a U.S. Plated Pickup truck

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What can I say about the accuracy of the Guadalajara Reporter? I had two U.S. plated vehicles that I legalized under the last amnesty program. My insurance company only wanted to provide liability coverage. I told them if that was the case they could also cancel other policies I had with them. They then decided to also allow me theft coverage. My broker found a different company and I, to this day, have full coverage on both.

(This post was edited by Don on Aug 3, 2005, 4:13 PM)

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