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alex .

Nov 15, 2004, 6:27 AM

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We all know folks wanting to go north

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for fortune and glory. What do YOU advise them to do? I typically do a back of the envelope calculation showing that one needs to earn about $28 K per year to survive, not in luxury, but just to have the basics and to not feel cold or hungry. That equates to TWO $7.00 per hour, full time jobs. Seven bucks is probably the best one can hope to earn hourly with no secondary education and no English skills. When they show up in Tijuana anyway I do my standard tour (the following is an exerpt from a Day in the Life article):

They are talking about "brinca la linea" so I load them into the car to take them on my standard tour of the border fence to discourage them.

They think the fence is this rickety old tin structure that is easy to climb over. I show them that once they get past the tin fence there is about 20 yards of illuminated, heavily patrolled no-man's land then another fence 5 meters high, then more patrol on the other side of that. As you drive west toward Playas over the hills you can see all the migra (Immigration Agents) just waiting to haul your butt back to Mexico if you try to make a run for it. Followed the fence all the way to the ocean to show them the memorial to those lost trying to cross illegally.

The memorial showing the names of those lost, their age, and the state they were from had been taken down and replaced with another, less profound memorial of just the first names. We watched the sun sink into the clouds that were hovering over the ocean and I commented on how the sunsets are just as pretty on the Mexican side and all solemnly agreed.

Alex

(This post was edited by alex . on Nov 15, 2004, 6:30 AM)

Carol Schmidt

Nov 15, 2004, 7:03 AM

Post #2 of 17 (1684 views)

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Re: [alex .] We all know folks wanting to go north

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But then they know firsthand of some, at least, who do make it across, generally best if they can pay for the best coyotes who have gotten their friends across with good-quality forged papers (and how do they ever come up with $2000 US each to hire a good coyote?). And they know that while some who make it lie about how well they're doing and are suffering in the promised land, some, at least, do far, far better than they were doing in Mexico and are indeed sending back record amounts to family back in Mexico.

Some will not make it across, some will die in the deserts trying to make it across, some who do make it across will be caught later and sent back, some will never find decent jobs and will be living in poverty and hardship in the States...but some will achieve everything they came for. Why do people play the lottery?

Yeah, a former housekeeper announced she was taking her two kids up to Ohio to join her former husband, sister and other family and friends, and she was warned about all the terrible things that could happen, even her kids dieing in the desert.

But she left anyway and got there less than a week later and is doing fine. She was going to a support system, which helped immeasureably. But now she's telling people down here how smoothly the trip went and how well she's doing, and I don't think she's lieing. All the warnings and dire predictions came to naught. Which do you think her friends and relatives still here will want to listen to?

Carol Schmidt

jennifer rose

Nov 15, 2004, 7:43 AM

Post #3 of 17 (1670 views)

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Re: [alex .] We all know folks wanting to go south

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Isn't it the flip side of trying to tell those who think they can live in Mexico on $500 a month (and who barely have $500 in their pocket), thinking that they can earn US wages without a permit?

Uncle Jack

Nov 15, 2004, 7:46 AM

Post #4 of 17 (1668 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] We all know folks wanting to go south

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Dreams and illusions die hard in any language.

uj

alex .

Nov 15, 2004, 10:12 AM

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Re: [jennifer rose] indeed

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and those are the same bums that I run across at playas de Tijuana and Rosarito beach, wanting to participate in the Gran Faloon.
Alex

julian3345

Nov 15, 2004, 1:01 PM

Post #6 of 17 (1603 views)

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Re: [alex .] We all know folks wanting to go north

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The guys I know who work regularly in CA are making $15-$20 an hour, left school at age 12, crossed the border first time at age 15 and have built up a good skill set -which includes speaking English -over the years. They stay about 2 years each time and send home mucha remesa. They do not stay near the border, but work as painters or chefs in the SFBay Area which has a very hot construction and housing market as well as a famous food/hospitality industry. Usually their payment to coyotes for border services ($2000 to $3000 currently) and their beginning living expenses are covered by personal family loans...they will usually owe several thousand dollars when they begin working in CA. The document package necessary for the employer's I-9 can be purchased in San Jose (eg) and costs about $500 these days. Several family members have established homes and apartments in the Bay Area where they live and share expenses for the duration of their months of intensive gainful employment. JEM

gpk

Nov 15, 2004, 3:24 PM

Post #7 of 17 (1572 views)

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Re: [alex .] We all know folks wanting to go north

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A friend's sons do 2-3 year turns working in ARKANSAS (!!!), so far no problems--I worry more than they do.

The illegal Mexican workers who lived in my former US town (New Hope, PA) lived in group houses (sometimes against the landlord's wishes), ate at work (many worked in restaurants), held as many jobs as possible, stayed out of trouble, and sent every spare dime back to their families in Mexico. Some used the SS numbers of legal friends/family members. I-9 used to be nothing but a piece of paper leeting employers off the hook for hiring (cheap) illegal workers. Has that changed?

jardinero viejo

Nov 15, 2004, 6:04 PM

Post #8 of 17 (1532 views)

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Re: [gpk] We all know folks wanting to go north

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The I-9 is still in use. It requires two forms of ID, one a picture ID- usually this is a SS card and a State ID card. An employer is required to copy these as proof he has seen them, but the employer is not required to be able to recognize fraudulent documents. The very fact that an I-9 is being used subjects the employer to minimum wage requirements, worker's compensation requirements, and payroll tax requirements. All of these are in the worker's favor.

Even the workers that are not documented via the I-9 can demand a competitive wage, at least in CA where it is a sellers market for labor. The only thing a shaky employer might stand to save is the insurance and matching payroll tax costs - same chance he would be taking paying anyone under the table.

The fact is, the days of paying substandard wages to these folks is long over, at least in the construction industry. As mentioned above, after a couple years of learning the trade, these fellows (and mujeres) are paid $15-$20 per hour and up. Sure, they often never collect on their witholding tax or their Social Security, but to them that is a cheap price to pay for the NOB wage. By the way, a savvy worker will claim 8 or more dependents so that the witholding ding is not too big.

The only thing our company was never able to pull off was group insurance for these workers. When it was offered, they always said "thanks, but we'd just prefer and extra $.50 or so per hour instead". Oh, well......

All I know from all this is that if the tables were reversed, I would be doing exactly what these honorable folks do.
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" To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the public."
Theodore Roosevelt
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pat

Nov 15, 2004, 6:10 PM

Post #9 of 17 (1532 views)

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Re: [gpk] We all know folks wanting to go north

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"A friend's sons do 2-3 year turns working in ARKANSAS (!!!), so far no problems--I worry more than they do."

You aren't implying that your friends' sons are in danger merely because they live and work in the state of Arkansas, are you? If it's ignorance and bigotry you fear.... don't worry about Arkansas. It appears you already found it in New Hope, PA.

Cynthia7

Nov 15, 2004, 8:38 PM

Post #10 of 17 (1503 views)

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Re: [pat] We all know folks wanting to go north

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He's working in Arkansas with 60,000 (we think) other Mexicans in a state that has not quite 3 million people. Who would clean our chickens, work in restaurants and country clubs, groom our horses and pick our produce, build, paint and roof our houses??? I speak more Spanish here than in SMA. We couldn't do with out them. I don't think we are much different that other US states. We are getting a Mexican consulate here soon--2 weeks? 4 weeks?

alex .

Nov 16, 2004, 6:10 AM

Post #11 of 17 (1479 views)

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Re: [gpk] thats the gotcha, isn't it?

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"sent every spare dime back to their families in Mexico"

While persuing "the dream", they don't get to see their children grow up. There lies the tradgedy, no?

Alex

jennifer rose

Nov 16, 2004, 7:36 AM

Post #12 of 17 (1457 views)

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Re: [Cynthia7] We all know folks wanting to go north

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Ruben Martinez, in his book Crossing Over, describes the lives of Mexicans living in Arkansas, Wisconsin, Carolina Norte, and California. http://www.mexconnected.com/MEX/jrose/jjrcrossingover.html

bdlngton

Nov 16, 2004, 9:14 PM

Post #13 of 17 (1381 views)

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Re: [jardinero viejo] We all know folks wanting to go north

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Fake ID's can be bought for a relatively low price. I do not know if the numbers used on the SS cards belong to someone else or are simple made up by the person making the ID. What I have always wondered is why the Social Security Administration does not catch social security payments being made regularly to an account that does not exist. Of, if the number being used really belongs to someone else, why does the SS notice that payments are being made to one account from what are probably two different employers in different parts of the country. Does anybody know anything about this? Certainly would be a way to catch undocumented workers, at least in jobs where SS is deducted from pay checks. Makes me wonder about homeland security if we can't catch illegal immigrants who are actually making payments to a government entity under false names and numbers.
Susy

Nov 16, 2004, 9:53 PM

Post #14 of 17 (1376 views)

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Re: [bdlngton] We all know folks wanting to go north

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Quote

"bdlngton" writes:
..... What I have always wondered is why the Social Security Administration does not catch social security payments being made regularly to an account that does not exist....

Think a bit more pragmatically - payments made to an account that doesn't exist represents payments against which there will be no future claim for benefits. Every penny helps.

Rolly

Nov 17, 2004, 5:28 AM

Post #15 of 17 (1361 views)

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Re: [bdlngton] We all know folks wanting to go north

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Actually, SS does catch those bogus accounts. When I ran a business, I got a letter from SS requiring me to explain why my business was paying into a non-existent account. Turned out to be a transposed number. It took over a year for them to catch the error, but they did notice and act on it.

Rolly Pirate

2006

Nov 17, 2004, 11:54 AM

Post #16 of 17 (1313 views)

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Re: [Rolly] We all know folks wanting to go north

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I know a large restaurant in the Bay Area where every worker is related - over 30 kitchen employees. The cast of characters changes about every three - six months depending upon the need of the worker then in the US. He is replaced by a cousin, brother, uncle etc - always related - they use the same name - just different bodies - when the first worker wants to go home for a visit relative steps in. Etc Etc... They all live in same neighborhood in about 4 different houses. They help each other. Most all that want to own new Ford Trucks - management/owner of restaurant makes it happen. Half wages paid under the table. Best run restaurant - no employee would do anything against another employee because they are all related and make sure no one screws up. And the owner never worries about turn over.

julian3345

Nov 17, 2004, 6:31 PM

Post #17 of 17 (1262 views)

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Re: [bdlngton] We all know folks wanting to go north

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SSA is currently holding several billion dollars in reserve funds that will never be drawn down mostly because they have been paid in by undocumented/falsely documented workers. This fund grows by an amazing amount every year. I think the AZ Star ran an article recently with exact numbers. There is a way for workers who have used fake IDs to collect their SS benefits, but the requirements make it very difficult. The prospective recipient of SS benefits must show saved check stubs; must somehow document the use of the ID, etc over the periods of his contributions. The US Congress is supposed to be deciding what to do with these funds...many legislators are of the opinion that they were illegally paid in, so the worker has no right to them. What compassion!!

I have a friend who lent her SS card to a relative who sold it and told her it was lost. Her husband's card is being used by one son who bears a similar name. When he is eligible to file for benefits, the father must document 30 days residence in the US after making application. This may be very difficult for a diabetic man in his 60's who would have to cross the border illegally to establish the necessary residency. A gnarley problem, but as has been mentioned, most younger mexicans I know just consider it part of the struggle to be able to work in the US. And yes, they always claim the largest allowable number of dependents on the payroll forms. Joan