Forums > Areas > Jalisco's Lake Chapala Region

lmaxine

Nov 1, 2004, 6:13 AM

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Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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This morning, on cable, there was a feature about the Americans in Ajijic voting. Pete was the star, speaking Spanish. Also saw Ann Heath and Charlie Smith, and another ex-pat whose name I don't remember
"He upon whose heart the dust of Mexico has lain will find no peace in any other land." Malcolm Lowry

johanson

Nov 1, 2004, 8:15 AM

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Re: [lmaxine] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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I wish I had never gone on the air. Now you know how poor my Spanish is, especially when on camera. :)

sandykayak

Nov 1, 2004, 8:37 AM

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Re: [johanson] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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Pete, I think that everybody appreciates the fact that you have made an effort to learn the language. That, in itself, is worth a few brownie points. congrats
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque

johanson

Nov 1, 2004, 1:52 PM

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Re: [sandykayak] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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It's sad how few folks try to learn Spanish, especially those of us from countries like that part of Canada and the US where only English is spoken.

Is it my imagination, or is it true that the bilingual Quebecqua (spelling) seem to have more interest in learning a third language (Spanish) than those who only speak English?

I used to live in Steenwijk (Drenta) where I learned NL. With NL it sure was a lot easier for me to learn Bayerisch (I lived in Oberammergau, "Frei Stadt Bayern" for 5 years)

The trouble is, D and NL don't help me much when learning Esp.

sandykayak

Nov 1, 2004, 2:07 PM

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Re: [johanson] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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I think the Quebecois and anyone who already speaks two languages find learning a third one much easier. Also, French and Spanish have Latin roots.

You have me stumped with NL but it sounds like it might be a German dialect. I thought that with a name like Johanson you might have knowledge of a Scandinavian language.

I spoke Dutch and English when I was seven (father worked in a Shell oil camp in Venezuela), moved to Caracas, where I learned Spanish (and forgot the Dutch), studied French for 5 years, grew up hearing Italian and studied a bit, and picked up some street Arabic when I lived in Kuwait. But I always wanted to learn at least some German.

About 5 years ago, I signed up for an adult ed class and found out that deutsch is a very difficult language. Long words and capital letters all over the place. I dropped out after a few weeks.

Bottom line: it ain't easy to learn a language but signing up for Spanish classes is a step in the right direction, especially if you plan to spend an extended period in Mexico.
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque

johanson

Nov 1, 2004, 2:45 PM

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Re: [sandykayak] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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Oops: Sandy sent a PM and asked a few questions and then I answered not as a PM but in public the following. But I will leave it. Because someone else might have the same questions

Sandy. NL stands for the Netherlands (oder Nederland) donde los personen hablen holandés.

It's close enough to German, to help greatly when learning D .

My parents spoke Swedish when I was younger when they didn't want me to understand what they were saying. Unbeknownst to them, I was able to learn a little and therefore understand a little of what they were saying. With my very limited vocabulary in Swedish, it was easier to learn NL. And then as I said above after NL I learned D (all germanic)

The only language that helps me with Spanish is English which as you know is a mixture of both anglo and Saxon (Latin and Germanic something).

It's really sad so few people actually learn Spanish here in Ajijic. It's just too easy to speak English to everyone.

I will say though, there are some who try for about 6 months to a year before giving up and still fewer who work very diligently at it and eventially speak the language quite well.

Me, I kind of sort of work at it and if I live long enough will speak it much better than I do now.

(This post was edited by johanson on Nov 1, 2004, 4:44 PM)

jimindetroit

Nov 2, 2004, 6:23 AM

Post #7 of 15 (1185 views)

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Re: [johanson] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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Pete, I'm surprised to read your comments regarding the lack of effort by some Anglos to learn the native language. I took it to be obvious that if you move to Mexico you learn to speak to the population living there. I'm now enrolled in Spanish classes here in Detroit in anticipation of living among you all someday.
A pet peeve of mine is people living in Detroit who have never learned to speak English. Arabs, Greeks, Italians and Mexicans all have large enclaves here, as do you in Lakeside. They use their support base as a crutch to avoid learning English.
Do you think the Mexicans might feel the same way about the Anglos living there?

juan david

Nov 2, 2004, 8:09 AM

Post #8 of 15 (1164 views)

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Re: [jimindetroit] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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Without exception, the Mexicans that we interact with in the Chapala area express appreciation to us as we speak to them in Spanish....which we always do until we reach the limits of our vocabulary. Even more important is the freedom and comfort you will have when travelling to other parts of the country where little English may be spoken. It's a very long process to achieve fluency and I really don't expect to get there, but proficiency and comfort will be their own rewards when we get there. You've got the right attitude. Keep at it.
" let sleeping dogs lie"

moonfam5

Nov 3, 2004, 10:53 PM

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Re: [jimindetroit] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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Jim, I can understand your frustration with those who don't want to learn English. I live in Southern California, and we have a melting pot here too. Let me try to put some perspective on the situation; English is probably the most difficult language in the world to learn, let alone master, unless you try to learn German (ask Sandy). Most first generation immigrants will be able to understand more English than you think, but for them to process it and recapitulate, that is more than they are willing to do, it is just plain hard! My Mother-in-Law has been in this country (U.S.A.) for over 20 years, yet she speaks little to no English, but she understands it. But her children are all bilingual Spanish\English, and they of course translate for her when needed. I can also speak from experience that the Mexicans that you encounter on your trips to their country will be very grateful when you speak to them in their tongue, and the will be gracious to you if you make the attempt, even if the only thing you can say is "Yo quiero Taco Bell". Have fun in your Spanish classes, and be comforted in the knowledge that it is easier for an native English speaker to learn Spanish than vice versa.
Wink

The more I learn, I less I know.

mkdutch

Nov 4, 2004, 8:15 AM

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Re: [moonfam5] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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Well said, moonfam5.

Biggles

Nov 4, 2004, 10:30 AM

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Re: [mkdutch] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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I'm impressed as anything by anyone that even attempts to learn English--especially as an adult.

When we were in a shop in Ajijic, I asked for some ham. My spanish is passable but rusty and the girl seemed almost surly when she showed me the various types of meat--everything except ham (jamón). We finally got the right one and as we were leaving I turned to her and thanked her for her patience (in Spanish). Boy, what a difference! Her face lit up and I felt like she realized that I was genuinely trying. That alone made me want to try 100x harder.

Right now, Hubby doesn't speak spanish at all (but he can ask for the bill with the best of ém!), but he's willing to try. When he went down on his own for the house closing, he was in Chapala and discovered that he hadn't packed shampoo. This is what happened:

Hubby (to a waiter): "¿Cómo se dice shampoo?"

Waiter: "Shampoo"

So off he went to a farmacia on the great shampoo hunt.

Hubby: "¿Habla shampoo?"

Farmaceútico (with a straight face): "Si."

When Hubby very proudly relayed this to me (thank goodness, via e-mail), it took me a minute to stop laughing. Fortunately, he'd already realized what he had said BUT--the cool thing is that HE TRIED. Of course, when he got home, Jenny (Yenuen) told him that if he studied really hard, in a few years he'd be able to "habla conditioner"!

I just hope that when I begin trying to assimilate in our soon-to-be community, that I'll be able to "habla shampoo", too.

Cheri

(This post was edited by Biggles on Nov 4, 2004, 10:38 AM)

N2Futur

Nov 4, 2004, 12:18 PM

Post #12 of 15 (983 views)

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Re: [moonfam5] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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I don't think English is a hard language to learn. Being German, I think I have pretty much mastered the language. On the other hand, German appears to be difficult for American's. Both my mother-in-law and my husband have given up on it. My next feat will be to conquer Spanish, though I have not made a real effort yet, I have picked up quite a few words. I have a friend that is quite fluent and she's offered to give me some lessons.

Pete, once we move permanently Lakeside in a couple of years, you may practice your German on me anytime! Looking forward to seeing you Thanksgiving.

Elke
___________________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to pick the one I never tried before." - Mae West

johanson

Nov 4, 2004, 3:59 PM

Post #13 of 15 (940 views)

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Re: [N2Futur] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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Spanish is really quite easy to learn, especially if you already know French, Italian, etc (you know Latin based languages).

German is really quite easy to learn, especially if you already speak Dutch, Swedish etc, (you know Germanic languages).

English is Anglo Saxon or half Latin and half Germanic based. So if your only other language is English, it will be harder to learn Spanish than someone who already speaks a Latin based language, but a lot easier, for example, than someone who only speaks Chinese which is, of course, neither Latin or Germanic..

My instructors told me it was easier to learn Spanish (or German for that matter) than English, because Spanish (and many other languages) has (have) fewer irregular verbs, etc.

I understand English is filled with idioms and exceptions requiring more memorization.
.

Rolly

Nov 4, 2004, 4:22 PM

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Re: [johanson] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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To get a clue at how hard English can be, try explaining the verb to get.

or ate/eight or led/lead or to/two/too or the terminal "e" as in hat/hate at/ate and so many others.

and of course there are the ones almost none of us can keep straight -- sit/sat and lay/lie

or just explain all the meanings of lie

Rolly Pirate

ekammin

Nov 5, 2004, 7:50 PM

Post #15 of 15 (828 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Pete Johanson on Mexican News

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One thing that usually bothers non-English speakers is learning to differentiate between three present tenses in English (I talk/I do talk/I am talking).

English speakers have trouble with the idea of nouns having a gender (two in French and Spanish, three in German, with the word for girl "maedchen" being not feminine, but neuter).

I can always tell a native francophone when s/he says "I am here since . . .". If you came in the past, but are still here, in French you use the present tense "Je suis ici depuis six mois."