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Carol Schmidt


Sep 17, 2004, 5:13 PM

Post #1 of 18 (1701 views)

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Anyone know of any books about Mexican lesbians livilng in Mexico?

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A friend who is teaching a college class in the States and who wants to be authentic in her materials wonders if there are any such books available? I only know of a few books about Mexican lesbians living in the States. I'd appreciate any info, personal reply or on the forum. Thanks,

Carol Schmidt



alex .

Sep 21, 2004, 9:05 AM

Post #2 of 18 (1608 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Not to be disrespectful, Carol,

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but why would there be books about the subject?
Alex


ms mac

Sep 21, 2004, 10:45 AM

Post #3 of 18 (1590 views)

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Re: [alex .] Not to be disrespectful, Carol,

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Well, Alex, why wouldn't there be?
ms mac


Esteban

Sep 21, 2004, 12:11 PM

Post #4 of 18 (1565 views)

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Re: [ms mac] Not to be disrespectful, Carol,

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From what I've seen in Mazatlan, being gay or lesbian does not carry the stigma like you find NOB. In otherwords, it's not that big of a deal and you might find that the subject is too esoteric to find a market capable of selling enough books to pay the cost of production.


ms mac

Sep 21, 2004, 12:25 PM

Post #5 of 18 (1559 views)

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Re: [Esteban] Not to be disrespectful, Carol,

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Oh, ok Esteban, seen from that perspective, it makes sense.
ms mac


gpk

Sep 21, 2004, 2:30 PM

Post #6 of 18 (1530 views)

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Re: [Esteban] Not to be disrespectful, Carol,

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Nonsense. While the Mexican people are more accepting of OTHER people's children/family members being gay, they are very much opposed to anyone in their own familt being gay. I have met more married and/or closeted gays since I've lived in Mexico than in the previous 50 years of my life in the US. Many gays here are very afraid for their jobs and afraid of coming out to their friends and families. There is definitely less "gay bashing" in Mexico--I don't worry about attacks with baseball bats--but there is plenty for Mexican lesbians to write about. Whether any lesbian has written anything, I don't know. Carol--go to www.sergay.com.mx there may be some resources there.


Marlene


Sep 21, 2004, 4:25 PM

Post #7 of 18 (1499 views)

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Re: [gpk] Not to be disrespectful, Carol,

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Well then perhaps Mazatlàn and surrounds is a more open-minded area, who knows? As the guy in the tall white hat says, it is not a huge newsworthy deal in these parts.


Kip


Sep 21, 2004, 4:54 PM

Post #8 of 18 (1491 views)

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Re: [Marlene] Not to be disrespectful, Carol,

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I'm a horse person and even though it's not a big deal and doesn't have a stigma attached (at least I don't think so!) I still like to read about other people's experiences. Same maybe goes for other subjects?

Kip
kip


Marlene


Sep 21, 2004, 5:18 PM

Post #9 of 18 (1481 views)

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Re: [Kip] Not to be disrespectful, Carol,

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?? The point of some answers in this thread (speaking from my understanding) is that perhaps there are NO books on this particular subject simply because it would be like writing about "Bringing Coals to Newcastle" (I do like that book). That is not stopping anyone, such as yourself for instance, from writing one.


Kip


Sep 21, 2004, 5:30 PM

Post #10 of 18 (1474 views)

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Re: [Marlene] Not to be disrespectful, Carol,

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Huh? Unless I'm losing it I don't think it was me that was interested.
kip


Carol Schmidt


Sep 21, 2004, 6:10 PM

Post #11 of 18 (1456 views)

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Re: [Kip] Not to be disrespectful, Carol,

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There are still gays being killed in Mexico because of their sexuality, just as still happens in the States, though it is much worse in most of the world. There is plenty of very-closeted gay life here, my gaydar tells me that, and my gringo friends who do have gay and lesbian Mexican friends tell me that.

Mexican lesbians do not feel all that safe, far as I can tell, and a seminal book around 1985, "This Bridge Called My Back," about lesbians of color and edited by two Mexican-American Latinas, was full of information about how they came out of a culture which was highly homophobic.

The gay acceptance many of us open U.S. gays and lesbians feel is in some ways real, some ways an illusion, the polite front gringos often get when we are doing something outrageous in Mexican eyes.

I personally have not had a single nasty look, much less any comments, from any Mexicans here, just the usual trash from a few uptight Americans who bring their bigotry with them. But I know of at least one gay gringo who moved to Mexico and then left partly because he felt the antagonism when two guys walked down the street with their arms around each other or holding hands. But he'd get that in most of the States as well. I know other gay gringos and Mexicans who live in San Miguel and who are very open, even outrageously so, and love it here.

But in any event, there is a very real difference in how a Mexican lesbian would view her culture and her upbringing than how the "majority" would view it. I simply asked if anyone knew of any books written by a Mexican lesbian. I sure don't think the shortage is because Mexican lesbians are fully integrated and accepted!

Few straight people knew anything about how lesbians and gays were discriminated against in the U.S. before Stonewall in 1969 brought about our equality movement and our publishing explosion to go with it, telling our stories that we had never dared tell before. Before we were "The love that dare not speak its name." Now we've been called, "The love that will not shut up." I don't think Mexico has reached that point yet. Mexico is certainly not the role model for the world on gay and lesbian acceptance so that no such book needs to be written! More likely the problem would be finding a publisher!

Or it may be more because no one here knows of any such books, not a big deal. I'll look elsewhere, just thought I'd ask, as the college instructor who sent out the word asking for any such books genuinely wants to get original sources, not just what somebody thinks somebody else might think and experience. Thanks for the link to sergay.

Carol Schmidt

(This post was edited by Carol Schmidt on Sep 21, 2004, 6:18 PM)


not_ally

Sep 22, 2004, 7:29 AM

Post #12 of 18 (1364 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Anyone know of any books about Mexican lesbians livilng in Mexico?

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Carol, your friend has probably already looked at documentaries regarding this issue. But if not, there seems to be an amazing collection of LGBT experience documentaries at Berkely which includes at least one film about Mexican lesbians in Mexico. I've never used collection personally (I just remembered seeing a doc. about cultural problems for gay Hispanic kids in the US, googled and found it) but it looks like a good one.

Here's the link: http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/GayVid.html
----------------------------
"The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly I discover there is no reason." John Cage


jennifer rose

Sep 22, 2004, 10:15 AM

Post #13 of 18 (1333 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Famous Gays in Mexico?

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I'll have to admit that I'm stumped, but then I also have a difficulty ascertaining others' sexual orientations. To paraphrase Seinfeld, "Not that it matters."

Could someone come up with a roster of noteworthy gays, lesbians and transexuals in Mexican history, in the arts and letters, culture, commerce and politics, ayer y hoy?

The only ones my brain can come up with at the moment are Carlos Monsiváis, Frida Kahlo (bi), and Porfirio Diaz' son-in-law.


Carol Schmidt


Sep 22, 2004, 11:36 AM

Post #14 of 18 (1317 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Famous Gays in Mexico?

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Typing in "gay" and Mexico" in Google came up with 22,000 hits. Typing in Mexican, gay, lesbian and books got 200,000 hits, but that woudl include all the travel books which mention us. Narrowing the search to famous, gay, lesbian and Mexico got 14,000 hits.

Typing in "Mexico" in the search engine of the gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgendered/queer home page came up with five pages of links. http://www.glbtq.com/

What you're asking would be like asking for famous glbts past and present in U.S. history in all subject areas--thousands upon thousands of names. Even listing those in Mexico where most would be in the closet would require far more space than this forum could hold, and more time than I've got, for sure.
Doctoral thesis, anyone?

Carol Schmidt

(This post was edited by Carol Schmidt on Sep 22, 2004, 11:40 AM)


gpk

Sep 22, 2004, 12:10 PM

Post #15 of 18 (1297 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Famous Gays in Mexico?

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My gay Mexican friends seem to have quite a list of gay celebrities and politicians--but I would never repeat such gossip--even though I believe them. Gays in history are hard to ascertain in any country, but I would guess that it is even more difficult in Mexico, where many gay people continue to marry and have families. Some, of course, would say that means they are/were bisexual.


jennifer rose

Sep 22, 2004, 12:17 PM

Post #16 of 18 (1294 views)

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Re: [gpk] Famous Gays in Mexico?

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I didn't mean to open up a bag of worms here. Folks, let's not engage in gossip or list those who are "suspected" of being other than straight, listing only those who've officially come out.


dumois


Sep 22, 2004, 12:49 PM

Post #17 of 18 (1292 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] El Cronista de la Ciudad de México...

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... Salvador Novo, was also known as Nalgador Sovo.

Saludos desde Guadalajara,

Dumois

(This post was edited by dumois on Sep 22, 2004, 12:51 PM)


not_ally

Sep 23, 2004, 7:25 AM

Post #18 of 18 (1229 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Famous Gays in Mexico?

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Carol, the below is one of the items from the link I posted above. I didn't look through the entire inventory because it was really long, I just stopped after the "A's" so there could well be other relevant stuff. But this film looks like a pretty good start.


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And the March Continues!
by Guadalupe Olvera San Miguel


And the March Continues! combines documentary and narrative forms to present a history of the lesbian movement in Mexico from its origins to the present. Testimonies from Mexican lesbians and movement leaders give impressions of daily life in their country. A dramatized encounter between Frida Kahlo, Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz (acclaimed 17th Century Mexican poet) and modern day Mexican revolutionary, Adelita, is a humorous but poignant acknowledgement of the historical and cultural impact made by these and other Mexican lesbians.
----------------------------
"The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly I discover there is no reason." John Cage
 
 
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