Forums > Areas > Jalisco's Lake Chapala Region

Uncle Jack

Sep 9, 2004, 6:20 AM

Post #1 of 18 (1295 views)

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Who are the landlords at the Tianguis?

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Who "owns" the tianguis? The markets are set up on public streets in all the little towns and villages. If the vendors have to rent their spaces, to whom do they pay?

uj

(This post was edited by Uncle Jack on Sep 9, 2004, 6:21 AM)

NickP

Sep 9, 2004, 6:41 AM

Post #2 of 18 (1282 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] Who are the landlords at the Tianguis?

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When I needed a booth at the Tianguis about 3 years ago it was "managed" by a woman vendor. It was on a first come first served basis and by the size of the space required.
The "rent" collected from me was for the clean-up of the street at the end of the day.

(This post was edited by NickP on Sep 9, 2004, 6:43 AM)

esperanza

Sep 9, 2004, 6:51 AM

Post #3 of 18 (1279 views)

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Re: [NickP] Who are the landlords at the Tianguis?

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Nick's right. It's still managed the same way and the money still goes to pay for post-tianguis cleanup. The rents are minimal; a friend of mine sold there at one time and paid something like 20 pesos for the day for a one-table space. However, often there were no spaces left when she arrived; she was a foreigner, an occasional dealer, and didn't have a regular spot.

Speaking of post-tianguis cleanup, if you've ever been around at the end of the market day you know that there are mountains of trash left in the streets. If you've gone back an hour or so later, there's no indication that a tianguis had ever been there. Every scrap is cleared out.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

jennifer rose

Sep 9, 2004, 7:02 AM

Post #4 of 18 (1270 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] Who are the landlords at the Tianguis?

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Most municipios have a director of the public market and tianguis, setting and administering the rules of operation for the sindicatos operating the tianguis. Traffic control, use of public thoroughfares and public health are only some of the concerns of this office. The market may be operated by more than one sindicato, who is delegated the responsibility for collecting rent, assigning space and maintaining order.

Uncle Jack

Sep 9, 2004, 7:09 AM

Post #5 of 18 (1267 views)

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More to the story?

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Nick refers to "first come, first served".

Esperanza refers to "having a regular spot".

Tuesday night it starts and by Wednesday night it is gone with no trace.

I notice that 95% of the vendors have the same location and same size space month after month. (With the exception, of course, of Anita.) It seems to me that there is a lot more to the dynamics and organizational structure of the weekly tianguis than "it just happens".

Maybe there's story there for some enterprising co-editor of an online monthly magazine.

uj

NickP

Sep 9, 2004, 7:29 AM

Post #6 of 18 (1245 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] More to the story?

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There's two type's of vendors. There's the regular vendors you see week after week, there the ones who make the weekly circuits lakeside and are there rain or shine.
Then there's the one's who only use the the market some of the time.

I fall under the "some of the time" seller

I was told who was in charge and from there I would arrive at 6:00am and was placed on a waiting list. If space was available, I was allowed to open. If another vendor wanted to share there spot with another vendor was OK to do so.

This is not some big market conspiracy, it was about the amount of space that could be used.

(This post was edited by NickP on Sep 9, 2004, 7:30 AM)

esperanza

Sep 9, 2004, 7:35 AM

Post #7 of 18 (1237 views)

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Re: [NickP] More to the story?

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Exactly.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Uncle Jack

Sep 9, 2004, 7:37 AM

Post #8 of 18 (1235 views)

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Re: [NickP] More to the story?

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Nick, I wasn't suggesting there was any kind of conspiracy......I was just curious how it really works down at the vendor level. We show up at 10:00 in the morning and everything is operating and orderly and by nightfall it's gone...Poof! I used to be in the TV business and was responsible for producing and engineering remote broadcasts. I know what's it's like to create a miracle in a parking lot or a shopping mall and then disappear by sundown. I was lucky as I had a good sized crew of pros to work with. I just wondered how the locals do it

(This post was edited by Uncle Jack on Sep 9, 2004, 7:43 AM)

talosian

Sep 9, 2004, 8:45 AM

Post #9 of 18 (1210 views)

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Re: [NickP] More to the story?

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At one point I asked one of the vendors what was involved in having a small space since I have a little operation which makes vanity car license plates which would be a nice souvenir of Mexico (plates mind you, not frames). The Gringo woman I asked (married to a Mexican man) said there was no way one not connected with someone there could get a space, that it is (her word) "unionized."

I gave up the idea but would love to try it locally when I return in 2-weeks.

Spock.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

gbatrucks

Sep 9, 2004, 10:08 AM

Post #10 of 18 (1190 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] Who are the landlords at the Tianguis?

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I thought there were all kinds of federal hoops foreigners had to jump thru to work in Mexico. Is that not a problem at the Tianguis?
"The trouble with life is there's no background music."

Uncle Jack

Sep 9, 2004, 10:17 AM

Post #11 of 18 (1188 views)

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Re: [gbatrucks] Who are the landlords at the Tianguis?

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Working for a salary and doing business on your own are different.

Delia

Sep 9, 2004, 3:37 PM

Post #12 of 18 (1153 views)

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Expat Sidewalk Vendors

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Yes, doing business on your own requires more paperwork than working just as an employee, if you do it the legal way. Most of these "sidewalk" or "cell phone & car" expats without a brick-and-mortar storefront are working totally illegally in several ways and are subject to prosecution and deportation. Just because enforcement is lax at the Lakeside backwater doesn't mean the activity is legal and non-enforcement will be a permanent fixture of local life.

satman

Sep 9, 2004, 5:18 PM

Post #13 of 18 (1121 views)

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Re: [JohnO] Expat Sidewalk Vendors

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You said:

"Just because enforcemnet is lax at the Lakeside backwater doesn't mean the activity is legal and non-enforcement will be a permanent fixture of local life."

I hate to be the one to inform you that the vigilant pursuit of offenders of trivial crimes has never been a high priority of Mexican officials. I agree with you that someone working without permission is definitely not legal, but I just don't see any major changes in Mexico's policy regarding the enforcement of this small aspect of the law. Even if an official from the local immigration office, who is the only one authorized to enforce this law, were to approach a vendor in a tianguis for their permits, a small bribe would resolve the matter. That is the only kind of enforcement of minor infractions you'll probably ever see in Mexico. Realistically, this is nothing new in this 500 year old country, as it can be traced back to the conquistadors and their Imperial rule. Infractions against the Catholic church's rules were paid in gold or other valuables diractly to the governors over the subjects, when the punishment called for was totally diferent than monetary reimbursement.

SATMAN

"Some will bitch about a dollar, while there are those without a dime."

Marlene

Sep 9, 2004, 5:52 PM

Post #14 of 18 (1116 views)

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Re: [satman] Expat Sidewalk Vendors and propinas.

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Quote

I hate to be the one to inform you that the vigilant pursuit of offenders of trivial crimes has never been a high priority of Mexican officials

AND

Quote

a small bribe would resolve the matter. That is the only kind of enforcement of minor infractions you'll probably ever see in Mexico.

I love it when these types of blanket comments surface on the forums. ?? I can tell you that after living here full time for some years and being married to a Mexican this is not the way life is in general. Things do get settled, and they get settled nicely without offering up money. Try it some time. It is a refreshing experience for all parties.

In fact, my husband cringes when foreigners proudly relate stories of whipping out wallets in attempts to settle things that can and do get settled through the normal channels. Maybe they read such comments and think they are supposed to haul out the wallet...Think twice next time because believe it or not there are plenty of good and honest people in this country too, that are completely offended by the offer of a "tip" while they go about the course of their duties.

Esteban

Sep 9, 2004, 8:59 PM

Post #15 of 18 (1085 views)

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Re: [Marlene] Expat Sidewalk Vendors and propinas.

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Partially true in a lot of cases but it helps if you speak better Spanish. I talked with a friend of a friend of a friend of mine tonight who got zapped on the way down from north to Mazatlan going close to 100 MPH. So the story goes, there are many new radar guns being used so this guy talks to the cop and tells him stories about the guys up north who had been carrying these radar guns between their legs for quite a while and that they no longer could have children and that the guns were causing testicular cancer and other problems. The cop thanked him and without a fine or a mordida, he was on his way.

DavidMcL

Sep 13, 2004, 7:59 AM

Post #16 of 18 (935 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] More to the story? - An invitation . . .

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In response to UJ's suggestion of an article about the set-up and running of tianguis, I invite such a submission! Photos from beginning to end would be wlcomed as well.

An article by Charles Dews offers one perspective, but not how it all comes together . . .
http://www.mexconnected.com/...dews/cdtianguis.html

Saludos de Taos

David
David McL
WebJefe

Bubba

Sep 13, 2004, 12:47 PM

Post #17 of 18 (884 views)

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Re: [JohnO] Expat Sidewalk Vendors

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Lakeside Backwater, JohnO? Woulld you explain that obnoxious term before I respond? Lakeside Backwater my ass!

johanson

Sep 13, 2004, 1:32 PM

Post #18 of 18 (875 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Expat Sidewalk Vendors

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Bubba: I Think he means that the lake is getting higher, when he talks about the backwaters, something we haven't had for years. Well anyway, I shall be back Thursday night unless IVAN changes its direction again and screws up connections in Dallas/Fort Worth. IVAN willing I shall measure the lake and report back to you guys about how high the backwaters have gotten.